Gen Efficiency has become a really big problem in DBD, has anybody else felt it?
I'm not one to usually complain about this problem, but now that basically every viable gen regression perk has been nuked from orbit what can I do against really gen efficent teams? I've noticed how fast the gens are flying in my games with some Killers, so what am I missing? Even if the teams I go against are mediocre in chase all they have to do is hold W and go to a few tiles and that's enough to put me in a losing position which feels incredibly awful to go against.
Obviously, if I'm playing a Killer I main like Blight, Hillbilly, Twins, or Oni then sure, I'll have good games because they either have extremely good map pressure and chase (Blight, Billy) or force survivors to focus on healing (Twins, Oni) but otherwise, if I'm playing Dredge, Trickster, or even Wesker what am I suppose to do? Is there some super secret meta build I'm missing that'll make gens not constantly fly off the handles? Am I supposed to never get a bad map that'll cause me to lose? Am I not allowed to make even a single mistake in game?
I have 3000 hours in the game yet this really does feel like the first time playing anybody B-tier and below feels completely awful and meta is mandatory to make a game last more than 6 minutes. It's beyond crazy, I don't wanna constantly stick to meta but what else am I supposed to do?
Comments
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stack gen-blocking perks and tunnel early. corrupt intervention, deadlock, grim embrace, pain res.
their gen changes to the perk just forces killer to tunnel every game because they do not get rewarded enough on pain res, pop goes weasel and grim embrace. killer base-kit for regression/game-delay is crap. a problem that has existed for long time.
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Its obviously a you issue. Learn how to play killers properly.
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i just dont like how we're getting more perks that allow to burst gens.
they arent necessarily "time efficient", quite opposite if anything, but they work in such a way, that you can't really pressure people while set up their gen perks and then they burst the gen so fast, you cant do anything about it.
all those so called "anti 3 gen" perks that in reality are used to quickly pop any unsafe contested gens, throwing strategy in that aspect out of the window for killer bc there isn't much they can do here.
it doesnt feel healthy, esp when there's more and more stuff like that.
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I am getting a little worried how easy it is to stack permanent progress.
Weaving Spiders + Specialist + BNP is spooky.
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When killers get rewarded off those perks they just keep tunneling and nothing changes. Path of least resistance and all that.
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You can always keep on playing with your chosen build, whatever it is, and take the L. Granted, it can be extremely annoying and infuriating sometimes. I've been losing several games in a row with the Hag, which is a killer I'm quite bad at, playing with a set of 3 universal perks (I was going for the achievement, and yes, I could have changed the killer, but I can be very stubborn) and still was matched with sweaty teams with meta builds.
Personally, I enjoy creating unique builds for every killers but it is true that if you want a slight chance to go for at least 1k you need some good perks (unless you're a pro). Good luck in the fog, anyway.2 -
I play both sides and I also feel like the generators fly too fast when I'm playing Killer. Ae survivor, it feels the opposite most of the time.
I'm wondering if it's possible certain generators on certain maps are bugged, causing their repair speeds to be just a little faster or slower.
I can't time it, but when playing Survivor, there's times I'm doing a generator by myself and it's obviously progressing faster that the last one I did for example.
This is happening while I'm healthy but using the perk Resilience, which is inactive when healthy.
If you all could please humor me and when playing Survivor next time, for a decent 4 or 5 hour session, let me know if you notice this.
It also seems some generators move slower too but the increased speed is more noticeable than decreased.
I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibilities since generators are indeed bugged on certain sides where Killers can't kick them.
I always thought this was just perception from each role, but as Survivor, you can *feel* for lack of a better word that a generator is progressing a bit faster sometimes (slower too, but to a lesser extent).
There's definitely an issue with Prove Thyself not activating, I've reported it. Neither the purple perk light window, nor the little buff icon appears on certain generators in a trial, while others it does.
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Yeah. You get survivors who do gens, you just lose. Only reason why this is rare in solo is because matchmaking sucks. Generally SWF has efficient gen speed every time, which is why we complain about it. If the devs wanted to bring solo up to SWF level, they'd just improve the matchmaking, because a good solo team is basically SWF-level. But they don't want to do that because it's better for them to have the community mad at each other than mad at them.
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gens will mass fly with this comb ya :)
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^ Most immature response of this thread.
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Nah. Gen speeds haven't bothered me or felt off in a long time
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I'd like some of these lobbies with flying gens. A lot of the time after 2 gens pop the game massively slows down to the point where I assume the game is lost.
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Consider using Babysitter, Off the record or Decisive strike.
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gens are so boring to do... we need a whole rework
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Sure. Cause replies like "stack slowdown" or pretending that gen progress perks are such a big issue are WAY better than knowing how to play a killer properly like all the other killer mains that can do that.
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I don't know if this is a new killer who doesn't understand the gameplay loop or if your not running strong perks and being confused why gens are flying. If the issue is your new at dbd or killer master your killers gameplay loop and don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy you havent put in the time to always be able to get them. If its a perk issue harass as many survivors as possible when your in chase. Perks conflicting is very bad. Don't run deadlock pop because they conflict.
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I long for the day the regression perks are no longer needed and are reworked to something different. In the perfect of worlds, the only gen perks we need are Trail of Torment and other perks like that. Gen perks that actually impact the game in a fun game. Rather than running gen perks just as an attempt to fix core-game issues by doing band-aid fixes.
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i think gen perks have a place in the game for killer to counter generator stacking progression perks but killer shouldn't feel like they need said perks to be relevant.
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Toolboxes need a proper nerf, they are the main issue rather than base generator speed.
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Exactly why I love Unforseen as a perk.
It's a gen kick perk that doesn't effect regression, but plays into stealth and TR tricks. I combo it with Dark Devotion, my other personal favorite perk, to constantly move my TR around. It's actually quite fun.
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How many hours do you have and how many killers do you spread your time across? I only ask because it can take time commitment for alot of people to master just one killer and you've listed several straight off the bat that you play. I honestly mean this in a purely constructive way, perhaps you're still learning to play these killers efficiently?
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I understand where you're coming from. But reducing gen progress perks will always be the number one choice, no matter what they change in the game. I would prefer them just reworking them, so we can get rid of this boring endless meta once and for all. Also, if they decide to actually buff base kit gen defending, these perks can be problematic to still have in the game with those changes. Meaning it could potentially become too oppressive.
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every game always has a meta. you cannot remove a meta from a game. The best you can do is diversify a meta where multiple play-styles are viable. This allows the game to be less stale. You'll get occasion X perk is overpowered/too strong every now and again but it is either that or stale gameplay. gen progression and gen defence is part of said diversity.
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It still doesn't excuse how you handled yourself.
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I don't think there's a particularly huge issue with gen efficiency at the moment, no. I do think that toolboxes are unbalanced, but that is kind of its own thing, not related to gen efficiency.
You're asking for some advice in the original post, so I figure I might as well post some of my own. Generator efficiency on the survivor side is something that your minute-to-minute goal as a killer is to interrupt: Basic, bread-and-butter good killer gameplay involves spreading pressure by occupying multiple survivors at once. The most straightforward and broadly applicable example I can give is to imagine the following:
One survivor is on a hook, you're chasing another survivor, and a third survivor peels off their generator to go get the save. For the duration of this situation, you only have one survivor on generators, bringing their overall efficiency down by a whopping 75%. It doesn't last very long, but it's repeatable and effective. If you manage to get that down before someone actually gets the save, you're in an even better position.
This general concept can be expanded out in a multitude of ways. Some killers - quite a few, these days - have side objectives in their power that can occupy even that fourth survivor with good play; Pig, for example, can have everyone off gens if she's good at keeping up chase pressure, because the fourth survivor who would be on gens might be searching a box instead.
It doesn't require those side objectives, though. If you're playing a stealth killer (or you're gambling a little on a stealth build), you can force survivors to heal for fear of being oneshot out of nowhere, as another example. You can run a full-hex build to keep survivors looking for totems, though that has the risk of backfiring if they find totems before you get the ball rolling. You can combine both, if you feel nasty!
I'll break this down into a few bullet points so I'll stop being so wordy:
- Your job is to occupy multiple survivors and damage their gen efficiency
- You do this by forcing them to act on something that isn't generators- for example, saves, healing, totems, side objectives in a power, etc
- You also need to learn the win conditions and strengths of your killer, and what risks they can afford to take; Blight and Billy have the mobility to spend searching areas or crossing the map, some other killers don't
- To that end, I wouldn't recommend stacking slowdown, and would heavily recommend information. Getting into chases quicker AND knowing which gens are being worked on + what survivors are doing is crucial for playing the macro game effectively
- Chase perks that mitigate certain resources can be useful too, if your chases are too long
Killers, currently, have a HUGE toolbox to rummage around in and a lot of viable methods of getting work done. It's just a case of figuring out what works for you, what perks complement your strengths and shore up your weaknesses, and what your killer is capable of, all while remembering that generator efficiency is something you are meant to disrupt, not exclusively your perks.
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Exactly this.
I'll also add that a disturbingly large number of posts complaining about gen speeds are also the same people who insist that tunneling is 'required' or 'the only way to play killer'.
Tunneling is also the exact opposite pressure situation until that first survivor is dead: you have one survivor occupied, and occasionally one going for save. But the other 2, and usually the third/rescuer as well, are largely left to do whatever they want (spoiler: it's gens).
This is also the situation early game before building any pressure (winning first chase).
So I typically see the loudest voices for 'gen speed issues' are ones that either struggle to finish chases quickly, apply consistent map pressure, or usually both at the same time.
Similarly, tunneling is one of the strategies that artificially inflates/boosts your MMR. So people are likely to be up against opponents who are above their skill level as well, which makes both establishing pressure and maintaining pressure even harder when all you know how to do is tunnel and camp.
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That's my biggest issue. I'm not gonna lie and say I lose most of my games because of gen rushing, in fact, I win most of my games without having to sweat. My biggest issue is just once every 7 to 10ish matches I'll get matched up against a group of Survivors who are extremely gen efficient making it feel like there's absolutely nothing I can do. If I'm playing a really good Killer then of course I have a chance, but if I'm playing someone like Dredge or Trickster who have glaring weaknesses then I essentially get to play the game for 5 minutes before all the gens get completed.
In my time playing DBD I've gone up against virtually every single type of player, the bully squad, extremely good loopers, streamers, etc. And by far the worst type are the ones who understand gen efficiency because there isn't much you can do in most scenarios, especially if they bring specific map offerings.
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I have 3015 hours in the game, I've been playing since mid-2019. I understand the gameplay loop, but that's not what I'm talking about. I've had games where the first 3 gens fly by and then the rest of the game slows down to the point where I win. I'm talking about the games where I did everything I could and despite that, the gens still flew by in 5 minutes. I usually run about half meta perks and half some other perks like Brutal Strength or Unforseen. I'm no stranger to skipping out on chases that are just not winnable, I'd rather not run full meta constantly on the weaker killers just to have a chance to play the game, and I know about conflicting gen perk combos.
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Fully agree lol. It's such a strange phenomenon, when I play Killer I'll seldom have matches where the gens just fly unless I play absolutely out of my mind, and then when I play Survivor it unironically feels like 90% of my matches none of my teammates are sticking on to gens when they really should. Honestly that combined with how stale Survivor has felt led me to just playing Killer 80% of the time.
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Gen efficiency is probably the thing that people are complaining about the most but the word gen rush gets thrown around a lot which leads to confusion and counter arguments of "Not everyone Surv brings good toolboxes with BNP every game".
At the end of the day, it still falls on Survivors making mistakes which leads to Killer snowballing. Be it running a loop properly, failing a 50/50 or even just being gen efficient as a whole. That's why Killers try to create situations where Survivors are prone to making mistakes, slugging/tunneling/camping etc
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Honestly? I'm not sure. I have 3000 hours in this game, and if I had to estimate it'd be 65% to 70% on Killer with the rest on Survivor. I play every single Killer in the game although there are plenty I rarely ever touch (Myers, Hag, Freddy, Spirit, Plague, Artist, and Sadako) but if I had to pick my top-played Killers it'd be in order Blight, Hillbilly, Wesker, and then it gets hard to judge.
I've mained Hillbilly since 2019 and Blight since release. I don't wanna say I've mastered these Killers because I feel it'd require me to master every single bit of collision in the game, but I've memorized every single tech, every flick, basically 99% of things with them. Other Killers I'd say I'm very experienced with would be Singularity, Twins, Oni, Nemesis, Xeno, and Dredge. As for everybody else I'd say I either have a pretty good amount of experience with or kinda eh at.
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Have you played Hag recently? That'll change your mind.
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Survivors don't need to bring gen speed-up to do gens fast. That's what they're not getting. They also don't get that gen rush is supposed to be the standard result every match. There's no reason for gens not to fly, and the only reason they don't is because of bad matchmaking. I routinely get solo teammates who, when I talk to them about how their god awful plays cost us the match, they say, "Ugh, sorry I don't take the game so serious" or "I'm not a master like you" or whatever. Why do I, who always plays serious, has thousands of hours, and oftentimes is the MVP, get those casual bums as teammates? And it's not just 1 out of 10 matches; 9 out of 10 matches I get teams chock full of them. But I can't ever get easy killer matches, because the survivors I face actually know what they're doing. Never feeling like you have power in a match, because the MMR choke slams you and the game balance bites your ear off, is what's pushed a huge amount of players away from the game. We've lost so many players who were so invested, had so much experience, and were so skillful, because this is straight BS that doesn't reward skill or decision-making. The devs have betrayed those people, since they don't know what they're doing, so they couldn't help the situation even if that's what they wanted to do. They don't.
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I've played 14 killer games since rank reset. 55/56 survivors have been killed. I don't even consider myself that good of a killer.
I run one gen slow down perk of any.
Killer has never been easier. Do I lose games? Yes. Genrushed super hard? Occasionally. Every game? Lol, nope.
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He's got 3k hours and complains about how stressful killer is. To me, that means he knows what he's talking about. Most people who post complain about things like, "The killer's able to find me, and that's unfair.".
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I win most of the time without breaking a sweat but sometimes losing once and thinking Gen speed is issue is close to "once upon a time survivors do Gen when I fail to pressure, and thats unfair"
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How did you completely misinterpret what I said? Don't put words in my mouth that I never spoke, properly read my message if you wanna criticize me.
First of all most Killers win most of their matches. Why? Simply because there is no proper MMR. Back when MMR was first released it was incredibly strict causing everybody to complain that all their matches were sweaty. BHVR listens and over the course of a few years, they made it infinitely more forgiving to the point where high MMR doesn't even really exist, it's just very low, low, middle, and then everybody is grouped together past that. This makes it so that someone with 700 hours can go up against someone with 8000 hours, causing a large disparity in skill. Combine this with the fact that solo queue gathers 4 random people and that results in the chances for a competent team to actually be formed incredibly rare. And it's because of that most Killers win most of their matches. It's mostly skill obviously on the Killer's part, but the fact that there may be one, two, or even three bad players gives them a huge advantage. My point is that just because I win most of my matches doesn't really mean anything. If the game is unfairly giving me an advantage by making one or two of the survivors bad then I just don't like to count those matches because I was always going to win them, they're just filler. Imagine if you were playing any other game and you knew that for the next 8 matches you were going to go up against a team that was way worse than you, and then only afterward would there maybe be a chance you'd go up against a group of people who were on your level, if not higher.
What I'm complaining about is if 4 competent survivors are grouped together and all 4 of them understand gen efficiency (Understanding when to heal, when to focus gens, etc) and they get just a half-decent map then it becomes incredibly difficult to win depending on what Killer your playing. Should I have just not queued up as the Dredge at all knowing that I'd go against 4 good survivors on disturbed ward? Maybe it was a Skill issue on my part, but it's not an uncommon sight nowadays to see even good Killer players struggle against a competent team of survivors who know what to do with gens.
All I'm asking for is an equal footing against people at my level. Like I clearly stated, sure, if I'm playing Hillbilly, Blight, or anybody that's very strong I have no issues, hell sometimes I even enjoy the sweaty games, but if I'm playing a weaker Killer or not bringing a full meta loadout then I just lose if I get a map that's even slightly favored towards survivors? I just get to go on a few chases before the games already over in 6 minutes? It's the equivalent of landing in a battle royale, having no items in your area, then being sprayed down less than a minute later by a fully kitted-out squad before you've had the chance to even do anything.
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those 7-10 matches are likely swf. adds up if you look at % that play solo and those that play swf.
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Biggest problem is rather a efficiency variance than efficiency itself
BHVR should really make deja vu basekit, game can't be properly balanced when majority of survivors 3 gen by themselves anyway
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that's the neat part, in those cases there's almost nothing you can do (you must rely on their greedyness and altruism in order to get hooks and kills)… you can still make them pay for rushing gens with noed tho (in all my matches done until now NO ONE tried to do a single totem because gens take priority over everything else… even healing since resilience exist and thanks to adrenaline this is a minor issue for them. Noed will make up for this)… best advice when you find those players is to proxicamp and tunnel… the first one will be dead once the gens are over probably (worst case scenario when the survivor will use every possible 2nd chance by using in that order pallets, styptic agent/anti hemorrage syringe, dead hard, otr, ds, dh again, adrenaline and being helped by his teammates through bodyblocking) and the second one will die due to noed (even in the case that they will destroy noed they will be only 2 survivors that can try to do the save, so one of them will likely take the place of the previous hooked survivor)… with a bit of luck if they don't have unbrekable you can even get a 4k by slugging, especially if you take no way out alongside noed)
in short words you must play unfunny in order to get ######### done aganist those teams and play mostly in the endgame (so if you force the use of god pallets while gens are still up it's still a good thing because in the endgame they won't have safe spots to use aganist you), also because otr and ds are disabled in the endgame, so they can't use them offensively aganist you (i lost the count of the people that bodyblock me with otr instead of running away from me because they want waste my time with those ######### perks despite i'm trying to play fair…)
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you know, i did a thread exactly on those problems… and since the only way to keep up the pace with those type of survivors is playing "dirty" (aka proxycamping and tunneling), in the next patch even this strategy will be scrapped away due to babysitter buff… and again they are PUNISHING killer for doing those things without giving them a real alternative to keep up the pace with the survivors (aka actually REWARDING killers for mixed hooks). Imo the devs failed once again to understand WHY those tactics are so popular…
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I do agree OP has been playing long enough and has enough hours to know what theyre talking about, but it's not an unreasonable line of inquiry. They've said they do fine with the killers they main (ie the ones they put most of their time into), which is what prompted my question. It's not unreasonable to assume that maybe the ones they're struggling with are ones they haven't invested as much time into learning. Someone who spends 3k hours learning to play 1 killer, for example, will likely be better at that killer than someone with 3k hours who plays every killer. I wasn't trying to imply OP was new to the game or something - I've seen them around the forum long enough to know they're not.
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Seems like focusing hook states on one Survivor, constant depletion of Bleed out bar on another Survivor and casual slugging the other two Survivors is starting to look more attractive a strategy.
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Both quotes (mine and theirs) were twisted and stupid. Needed to make the point.
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I tried to speak up for this in the past but i gave up, after getting bombarded with a ton demeaning comments. I see some have started on you too.. Also people lie to win their arguments and i got tired of having to dig up proof for every claim. Killer side were simply too stressful and unfun for me - So i quit as a killer main as that was the only solution.
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The ironic thing is survivors don't need a single item or perk to speed up the gens but they have many and the way they can synergise is pretty disgusting at times.
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I dont have to excuse anything. LOL.
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Good for you. :) LOL
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I like the Bard Perk but man it's seriously sneaky stuff. Even with the 1% boost in skillchecks that really adds up if two people are on a single gen and it's really hard to tell if somebody's using it unless you as the killer directly hear it or see somebody using it. That and having it synergize(?) with stake out is kinda gross too. I think that's the problem with a lot of survivor perks that relate to boosting progress or skillchecks, you can't really tell who's using what because it isn't obvious at all for the killer.
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Thankfully most games my survivors don't play very efficiently but all it takes is a group to stick to gens and they fly by with or without perks.
Don't need toolboxes or perks like Hyperfocus,, simply having all the survivors actually doing gens makes a HUGE difference, but they can't really add a blanket nerf without making solo queue even more unplayable.
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