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About the gen bug
Comments
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I never called myself a Killer main. I said I play both. Don't put words in my mouth. I described the Perk rather than naming it because I don't assume you or anyone else know what it does. :) Describing what it does is more useful in showing how it can be used against a 3-Gen. But you see, you are one of those people who seems to enjoy complaining about the game rather than playing it. Not getting enough rage on X? :)
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I agree with coconut. I think its a "feature" bhvr experiment with thats accidently made it in.
Also OP, no its terrible. SWFs can hugely abuse this. A 4man could let 2 or 3 survivors die, do 1 / 2 gens and leave.
Even duos could abuse it, kinda like old DC for hatch.
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I cannot see how this would be a good addition to the game. Punish the killer by giving a free, undeserved generator for the survivors, when a killer has managed to eliminate a survivor. Nothing about this seems balanced.
Since most games when I've faced a killer they haven't tunnelled, for them to spread the hooks before finally earning a deserved kill, only to see 2 gens go instead of one .. it's just not right at all.
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if you really think those things then i've no doubts on this: you are going aganist bad players… i lost the count of the times that despite my chases lasted less than 30 seconds, gens pop everywhere and no matter the gen perks that you are using: you can't stop them because they are literally too much fast to even use them… and you know what is constantly working (most of the times) when those matches happens? endgame builds and using the greedyness/altruism that survivors have aganist them… btw the perks that killer have are all trash (they were a lot more viable in the beginning, when the nerfhammer wasn't applied on them), especially compared to the ones that survivors have. AGAIN you are assuming that killer that tunnel are bad players when actually tunneling the weakest survivor is the best strategy that a killer can do, you like it or not this is the truth… think about it, every survivor can press m1 on a gen (so more or less everyone has the same efficiency regarding gen repairs) and repair them, but not all of them can loop… the best way to apply pressure on the survivors is to actually get the first kill as soon as possible, and this is a fact… just because you despise tunneling (and RIGHTFULLY i might add), doesn't mean that the killer that tunnel isn't skilled… quite the contrary, he/she's applying the best strategy that killers can do in order to keep up the pace with the survivors.
i'll say once again in short words: it's fair to disincentive those kind of gameplays, but you need to make the other strategy viable or even stronger than tunneling if you want to get rid of tunneling and camping… you can't pretend to get a better game if you give only punishment without nothing in return, you are only alienating the killer playerbase doing so…
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Well there are also matches where you dont tunnel but you end up killing two survivors at 3 gens. With the current bug if the other two survivors pop 1 gen they will be in end game so even though You didnt tunnel you get heavy punished so it make no sense, or if you have a game where you 8 hook survivors and then kill 1 at 2 gens left and now they only have to pop one gen even though you played extremey fair. It's just a horrible idea. + it also promotes 99 gens until one of your teammates dies wich is just dumb.
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Only if survivors had to do 6 gens to escape instead of 5
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6 is a casual number, make it 8
oh wait
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Ok but what happens if a killer doesn't tunnel? Then they just get punished for killing survivors and therefore be punished for playing the game normally, not good.
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It is ridiculous to penalize the killer side for performing the act of executing a survivor, which is one of the gameplay objectives imposed on the killer side. What do you think the two camps are separated for?
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It also makes games where killing someone at 2 gens left becomes an instant win for survivors. It's odd that having someone dead at 2 gens is much more beneficial for the survivors at times than only have 1 gen left. And it punishes non-tunnellers more because killing someone off at 4 gens means they still need to repair another 2, so you still are in the lead. Playing fair and killing someone at 2 gens just makes you lose. You're better off slugging and not killing anyone until there is only 1 gen left at that point.
It is way too punishing and should not be added.
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Stealth just isn't viable anymore. Stealth was a viable playstyle before maps started getting their visual overhauls, and before the plethora of aura reading/location revealing perks we have now.
Dead by Daylight may be horror-themed, but it's still a videogame. Take away looping, and you may as well have killed the survivor role.
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When a gen is complete, take a random hook stage off a survivor while we at it
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Not exactly true, there has been a few games where survivors have actually lost line of sight and won, all survived. They didn't loop and still had an effective role. Survivors have different ways to play, most want to loop. That's fine by me because very very often I'm prepared for it and effectively take away their looping tactic and they end up losing as a result of trying it.
By all means if survivors feel looping is the way to go and enjoy the comedic scooby doo scenes then go for it, I don't find it fun but each to their own. they really shouldn't complain when they have similar boring tactics used on them tho... Camping and slugging for instance. Survivors think it's boring but they obviously don't care about my enjoyment when they are looping circles around me so why should I care about their enjoyment when I slug them and take the 4k? Works both ways, each to their own tactic, whatever makes them win and have fun. But looping rarely gets a win in my experience.
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One of the most impactful and useful effect of tunneling is, when SWFs suddenly all rush to the area and try to defend their hapless buddy, taking hits, bodyblocking and NOT doing gens. It really gives you as the killer a breather and moment to ascertain the situation at hand, I sometimes just downed the survivor on deathhook, when I got one of their friends. But if they brought a map offering and/or played with lots of dirty tacticsthemselves, then I don't hold back.
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Looping is…… boring? The only point of interaction in the game is….. boring? Survivor's only viable way to make time for 90 second generators is….. boring?
Why are you playing DBD? Get a hobby or something man.
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I find it ironic, the respawning hooks made me slug decidedly less, but now I am slugging more brutal then ever before, because I need to preserve the survivors on deathhook, unless I am sure that they are a swf and probably stay to observe the match. Only once they are all slugged and potential Unbreakables are taken care of, can the hooking begin.
So this is a historical situation, where a mechanic is actually making soloQ survivors stronger then SWFs.
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The fundamental problem with using the gen bug as an anti-tunnel feature is that it punishes success for the killer by doing what they're meant to be doing, killing the survivors. Putting that aside, if you as the killer fail to capitalize on survivor mistakes or make too many mistakes yourself you're SEVERELY punished for it during the match. I don't see why survivors should get a gigantic second chance in the match if they're performing horribly.
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Losing LoS is an effective tool, but I'm not sure you could call that a stealth playstyle since the point of a stealth playstyle is to avoid ever being seen by the killer in the first place.
It's not really about fun. Looping is effective, and really the only way for survivors to showcase their skill level. Someone who can't loop is often going down in chase very quickly. Whereas someone who can loop is going to run the killer for a long time, maximising the value they get out of a single chase.
It's important to understand that while the scooby-doo-esque chases may not be to your liking, it's a result of how DBD has evolved over time. Stealth used to be a viable playstyle, but with perks like Nowhere to Hide, Floods of Rage, BBQ, Bitter Murmur, Darkness Revealed, Alien Instinct, Ultimate Weapon, Weave Attunement, etc. It's just not viable to go all-in on stealth anymore.
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The one survivor match I had where a killer hard tunneled, I don't think any gens popped after the first person died. The bug didn't help a bit.
When I play killer, I don't tunnel. So when I get down to a couple gens left there are probably three or four survivors still alive and with this bug I can't kill anyone or else the next gen pops and the exit gates open. That's exactly what happened in the last killer match I played, there were two gens and three survivors left, and I knew almost for a certainty that if I killed just one of them then the other two would pop a gen and power the exit gates. So I didn't kill anyone until I got both of the death-hook survivors on the ground and could kill two at once. That was the only way to play around it.
The earlier killer match I played where a survivor decided they wanted out first thing, they died so early that an extra gen popping didn't matter one way or another. It made no difference.
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From my point of view, finding, tracking, having genuine chases, avoiding flashlights, making jump scares is what I find fun.
The point for survivors is to complete gens and escape. If they spend whole match looping then I ask the same question, why play dbd because the objective is not to loop it's to do gens and escape. As previously pointed out, in my experience looping doesn't work. They still end up dead and don't escape so what's the point? If you want to go in circles for 10min then go on a merry go round not dbd.
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I very much disagree with the whole looping only way to showcase their skill level because like I said many times, in my experience spanning multiple years, looping just doesn't work. Ye they can go in circles for ages, hardly skillful. I was survivor for 2 years I have done it and know how easy it is. But the loopers end up dead with pretty low score end of match when the go against me anyway. The ones that don't loop, work on gens and lose line of sight when after a chasing for a bit... They are the ones that end up beating me.
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Looping isn't just going in circles, though. Knowing what resources are in your area, how to utilise them, and chain them together while also being able to read what the killer is going to do is incredibly skillful.
There is nothing skillful about sitting on a generator and hitting the occasional skill check that only exists to ensure the survivor is actually paying attention. The same applies to altruistic actions. The chase is the only area in which a survivor can showcase their skill level as a player.
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If looping is the only skillful area for survivors then same can be said for tunneling, about keeping on the survivor, reading what they will do, making sure they don't lose line of sight, knowing what resources are in the area where they could lose line of sight. During the chase, it's more skilful to be able to lose line of sight and lose the killer than to go in circles imo.
It still doesn't explain what the point is. Ok so they flex about how "skillful they can loop" but to what end? 9/10 loopers going against me end up dead with a low score because they haven't done ######### all else in the match. It's easy to predict because most loopers do the same thing. I have been a survivor for a long time prior to being a killer and I still just don't see the point. As a survivor I played dbd to accomplish the goal of the game, do the gens, survive, escape. Not flex about how good my pointless, meaningless looping is. As a killer I play dbd to get kills. If people want to dance around and flex and lose that's fine by me. They lose but hey at least they can loop for a little while lol
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Absolutely not. To "fix" tunneling the objectives for both sides have to be reworked. This isnt it.
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The same cannot be said about tunneling. It's called tunneling because you tunnel vision. You ignore everything else around you for the sake of going after one person.
Good killers rarely lose LoS on survivors, and even when they do, it's only enough time for the survivor to gain distance. Looping is realistically the only thing survivors can do to shake the killer. Survivors move at 4.0m/s, while Killers are either 4.6m/s or 4.4m/s, with the exception of Nurse. If a survivor just mindlessly runs in a straight line, they'll get caught and downed. If they just mindlessly run pallet to pallet, they'll create deadzones.
It's easy to lose LoS on a low MMR killer, because they just follow the scratchmarks. Much harder to lose LoS on a killer who mindgames loops, and forces the survivor to either make a mistake or run to a deadzone.
It sounds to me like the loopers you're talking about are people who play the game purely for the chase. Not everyone who loops plays like that. Survivors loop because it buys their team the most time. Losing LoS rarely works in chase against more experienced, more knowledgeable killers.
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Its not even an "anti tunnel" its a reward for dying
if its a close match killer just killed the first survivor at 8-9 hooks with 2 gens left the next gen just says survivors win, at that point its just a reward for losing by winning and cannot and should not be in the game
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There are perks that hide scratch marks. Like I said previously the ones that use these perks to lose me in a chase end up winning. Looping doesn't work on me so fail to see how it's worthwhile to loop based on the years I been playing. I would say same can be said for tunneling because the killer needs to be aware if his surroundings just like the survivors do, needs to read the survivors to anticipate the next move. But surly if survivors want to flex skills then it would better to flex at how they can lose line of sight. You said it yourself, much harder to lose line of sight than loop. That's the real flex, not looping.
Also isn't looping the equivalent of tunneling? Ignoring all other objectives, having tunnel vision only concentrating on the looping nothing else. Not doing gens, not healing team mates, not doing totems. Sounds like survivor version of tunneling to me.
All I can say is what works and doesn't work in the matches I have played. On a nightly bases I'm getting regular 3/4k against people that loop. When I lose its not due to looping it's due to losing line of sight. Maybe I'm playing a different game to everyone else lol but that's my genuine nightly experience on dbd
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No skill is involved in tunneling. You are focusing solely on one survivor out of four. What do you think the other three survivors are doing while the fourth is busy in chase? Their objective. Your objective is not just to get kills, it is also to prevent the survivors from completing their objective. If it takes you more than 45 seconds to get your first hook, you've already lost two gens.
You equate looping to tunneling, despite them not even being remotely similar. A survivor cannot be in two places at once. A survivor who's in chase cannot simultaneously be doing a generator, or cleansing totems. How exactly are they supposed to be able to do these things while being chased? They can't, because it's not physically possible.
Losing LoS is not the real flex. It's much harder to lose LoS on more experienced killers because they don't blindly follow scratch marks. They control the chase, and where they want you to go. You keep saying survivors lose LoS on you, but how do they do that without looping? Do they just round a corner and suddenly disappear? Looping isn't about trying to delay the killer indefinitely. It's about making the chase take longer. The longer the chase, the more time the rest of the team has to focus on gens.
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They lose line of on me by looping in order to lose line of sight. They use perks to hide scratch marks, use speed boost, blind me. They don't hang around and wait for me to chase them around another loop. That's the difference. Looping to lose line of sight works. Looping to flex how well they can loop or to buy time just doesn't work. Huge proportion of loopers will hang around and wait to get another chase to try waste time so gens get done. But the fact is it just doesn't work on me. It might work on others, but 9/10 the looping just doesn't waste enough time. tunnel them out asap and move on. And I definitely disagree with the the 45 seconds and lose because I have taken way longer and I still win. This is my point, against me anyway... Looping just doesn't work, they end up dead and with a low score. If I can beat looping then I'm sure many others can too. Not saying I win them all, some times I lose against loopers but that's really not often.
While someone is looping me there is usually 1 other survivor as back up for if they get caught. Pretty obvious when I down them and there is someone else there immediately with a flashlight to waiting for the pick up. Another reason I go pyramid head, send em to the cage then tunnel the flashlight guy and it disrupts the gen guys by freeing the looper. When he's free I go after him again. When the loopers are out then even if it's 1 gen left to complete, the rest just fall. But one way or another the loopers get taken out.
Im sorry but my opinion is something skillful, something hard to do should be a flex. It's impressive to do something hard. By your own words, that's lose line of sight. And there is just as much skill in successfully tunneling someone as there is in looping, requires the same skills, knowledge of the map, anticipate survivors movements, control of movements to hug corners effectively to catch them. Use of killer abilities such as pyramid head. All these skills are involved in successfully tunneling someone. If looping is such a flex and skillful thing then it must take a degree of skill to counter it head on.
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Survivors could simply keep one gen 99, so they can use it immediately when someone dies and often skip last gen.
This would be super broken, once survivors start playing around it. You basically get old key situation, but better and without an item.
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That has to be the most ridiculous idea of the week.
It's artificial.
It's as lame as ending a match with the roll of a dice to decide who wins.
That'd be the end of the game.
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For this idea to work, default gen timers would probably have to be increased to make for such a comeback system.
4 Survivors being efficient is good enough on average, that's why taking out one Survivor early is a good strategy due to the huge drop in efficiency. For a comeback system for 3 or less Survivors, the strength of 4 Survivors has to be reduced.
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So, now we've established that looping does work on you. We've now also established that these are players who only play the game for the chase. There's a difference between a survivor who's looping you to get you to drop chase, and a survivor who wants to be chased.
I can loop most killers for 30 - 45 seconds, sometimes longer depending on tile spawns. I don't do it because I want to be chased. I do it to get the killer to drop the chase in favor of an easier target. If it works, then I don't lose a hook state. If it doesn't work, then I lose a hook state but they've just lost two gens. Looping is the only area in which a survivor can showcase their skills. That's not to say they're doing it to flex, however.
If you're playing against people who are coordinating flashlight saves for when they go down, that's two people not on gens. More efficient survivors won't bother with that, unless they're already in position for the save. They aren't going to make sure they follow their buddy around for when they inevitably get downed. The less people that are on gens, the easier it is for the killer.
Now, tunneling doesn't require skill. You're chasing one person who's just been unhooked with the intent of rehooking them. You're applying all your pressure to that one survivor while the other three work on gens. Tunneling is, more often than not, done to the detriment of defending your generators. Target the wrong person, and you could be walking away with a 1k/3E at best. Worst case, you're looking at a 4E.
As for losing LoS being skillful, it's easy to lose LoS against less experienced killers. Even without perks that hide scratch marks. More experienced killers make it so that losing LoS is a much more difficult task. Whether or not you can lose LoS on a killer depends entirely on how skilled the killer is, what perks they're running, and how well they're able to control the chase. It's more luck than skill.
All the things you think tunneling requires to be successful are completely invalidated by bloodlust. You can be a bloodlust andy, and still successfully tunnel someone out of the game. Looping isn't a flex, but it does require skill. Skill doesn't necessarily beat skill in a game where skill isn't the most important factor.
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Looping to drop chase? This is not what happens in my games. I'm repeatedly going against people that want the chase, spin around in circles flashing the flashlight in the air trying to get my attention. If they are expecting me to drop chase, it doesn't happen, they get killed. Still doesn't seem like a good tactic to use. Especially when knowingly going against an anti loop killer.
what your saying doesn't make sense because you say losing line of sight is easy against low MMR but higher MMR it's much harder to do and you say looping is effective and tunneling the wrong person could end in at best 1k.... How do you explain the complete opposite happening in 90% of my games and has been happening for years. My tunneling works 9/10 times, I'm consistently getting 3/4k on a nightly basis. The big picture clearly shows that looping generally doesn't work on me. If looping was effective and tunneling costs me gens then I would be losing far more than 10% of my games. Yes I do lose a few gens but I still walk away with 3/4k and the looper one of the first to go.
The only way it makes sense is that lower MMR lose line of sight is way to go, higher MMR looping is the way to go. But if that's the case then how many months/years of getting gold/iri medals and 3/4k does it take to get to the higher mmr where looping actually helps people win. I'm clearly not at that point yet because I'm still walking away with 3/4k with people trying deliberately to loop anti loop killers and even when I'm Myers. They hand me the T3 by looping then surprised when I mori them quickly.
Facts are pretty clear in my games so far, looping = death sentence. Many people loop, many people die and lose.
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I see this notion brought up all the time and it kind of makes me laugh. It has a lot of adherents, Scott Jund being an influencer example. Looping is not the only type of interaction in the game, nor am I talking about doing Generators. There were two games we played as children, tag and hide-and-seek. Believe it or not, hide-and-seek is just as popular (if not more so) than tag. The stealthy type of Survivor is interacting with the Killer, albeit it in a very different way. Believe it or not, there are Survivors who enjoy that cat and mouse game over looping.
Just as there are Players who enjoy the mind game of the slower, M1 Killers like Trapper, Myers, etc. there are Survivor Players who either find looping kind of boring (like playing Pac Man endlessly) or simply aren't that good at it. They contribute to their teams in other ways and fight the Killer in a way that interests them more. Do not let your personal bias towards what YOU enjoy about the game speak for all other Players. Some people like the sneaking around, the hunting down of Totems, and quiet rescue. Some people like running loops. I, personally, am a competent looper, but no more than that. I don't enjoy looping which is probably why I've never become a GREAT looper. To me, running is what you do when a plan fails. ;) I do, however, fight for my teammates and carry my share of the weight. I have a good time and only loop when I have to do so.
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