How much more anti-camp and anti-tunnel do survivors need?
Comments
-
I almost exclusively play "weak killers" (Myers, Ghostface, Pig, Dredge, Doctor) and I never intentionally tunnel or camp outside of EGC. I don't have an issue with winning. I probably have an above average win rate at around 60-65%.
This whole "killers need to camp and tunnel or they lose" has always been bunk. There are some niche scenarios where a bit of camping can be useful, usually scenarios instigated by survivors in the first place. But for the most part, if you feel you need to camp/tunnel to have a chance, you're probably doing something wrong and not applying enough pressure. Or you mistakenly believe you should be winning every game, or letting confirmation bias lead you to believe that the 40% of games you lose are somehow more significant than they are.
6 -
To answer the core question, as much more as it takes for camping and tunnelling to stop being problems.
There's something else I'd like to comment on, though. In this thread and in others, I've seen people say things like "You don't have time to wander around the map looking for fresh survivors to chase", and that's always struck me as a little bit of a self report, not to be too rude here.
What if you just go straight to the survivors because you already know where they are, through info perks or good basekit tracking? Kinda seems like the thing losing you games is actually a lack of knowledge regarding survivor location, not that you've left the hook. That should be a good thing for you to hear, though! It's something you can improve at without needing the game to change, and it's not even that hard to do, either.
Actually spreading pressure is a vastly better tactic than camping out a hook stage, because it slows down gen repair innately. Something that weakens camping won't affect killers who know how to leverage that fact, not even players picking weaker killers.
2 -
I also agree with this sentiment, to an extent.
Some killers, mainly the weaker cast, can't afford both long chases they naturally are stuck in and map traversal at the same time, even if they know where the other survivors are and especially on larger maps. Problem with fixing any of that though are the killers who CAN afford to move across the map with ease. I was adepting Hag the other day and it's night and day using Mint Rag even if it's just to traverse the map easier. Survivors still have the option to hide, pre-run, and loop good tiles on top of it as well.
Not saying this as a bad player either, most of my Sadako matches end with a 3-4k with maybe less than half getting a Mori because at least with Sadako I do have map traversal options when survivors aren't TV hounds. It's a rough thing to balance when you have both 4.4 speed Hag or Deathslinger in crowded maps and tiles and killers like Blight and Nurse in the same game.1 -
Not every killer is on pig level. Most killers can tunnel someone very easily and don‘t say killers should all have it easy to tunnel. Tunneling is far too efficient and even with those perks it’s still easier to tunnel than to go for someone else, which shows how good they are.
Basekit borrow time only gives you a chance to do something to not make it completely unfair.
You can‘t compare all players to comp players. Comp players are not a big part of the community and not everyone got the time and will to become as good as they are.
Maps become easier and easier for killers, which means survivors can do less and less against tunneling, which then means they have to change something to make it not completely unfair.
1 -
I used to think that way, that playing 'nice' as Myers will make you lose, and then I practiced different strategies. This is the main reason Clown is actually quite powerful. Clown knows how fast he (with Yellow) and Survivors (with Purple) are going, and they will never be as experienced as the Clown player with those speeds. Y'know the Bruce Lee fear the man who practiced 1 punch 1000 times concept.
I did the same with Myers, and started developing different builds until I came upon Thana+Plaything+Penti+(Personal preference) and no Tombstones (add-ons also personal preference). Most players haven't played against that, and thus you can be the 1000 punch Myers. You will win the majority of your matches (even against 4-mans), just by your expertise over your opponent's in playing within this particular mud pit.
Also what is a self-report of what, self-awareness and the willingness to improve? Gosh darn yuh got me!
To be fair I would grant that for free for anyone at 4 digits worth of posts, and the vast majority of 3 digit posters. There was a study that basically found that the people willing to engage online (beyond only logging in to play), such as discussions, are within the top half of players more or less by default (with outliers of course, like lore junkies). Top-MMR (being who can matchmake with each other) is merely the top 25% of the playerbase, unlike things like other game's top echelon being the top 1%, top 0.1%, or even better. (Eg. League of Legend's top rank of Challenger is 0.02% according to a quick google search.)
The difference is when climbing, you probably get players like 60/55/45/40 matched against a 50 Killer, which is an average 50vs50, with people both better and worse than the Killer. With the very start of top MMR, you instead get (best case scenario) 75/75/75/75 against a 75 Killer. That means there are no Survivors worse than the Killer, that the Killer is able to exploit. That isn't even taking into account that it might need to draw a 90/85/80/76 against that 75 Killer just due to matchmaking times (where every Survivor is better than that Killer). This 75 Killer scenario is where I think the majority of non-QOL complaints about Killer come from.
If the Killer climbed by stomping the weaker Survs, they never learned the tools to win against stronger Survs as well. That's what anti-tunnel and anti-camping measures 'fix', the tools weaker Killers use to cheese wins against better Survs.
2 -
Good killers don't need to slug, tunnel and camp - only bad and toxic killers do, and you deserve to be punished. Plain and simple - I don't give two craps what you want to think, you're ruining the game. Survivors deserve to have fun as much as the killer does and those tactics ruin the fun for everyone. If you have to tryhard when killer already gets SO MUCH leeway - able to see survivor items in lobby so they can plan around it, the survivors have no idea who the killer is, base-kit powers tend to be broken for several of the killers, killer perks matter far more than survivor perks do, and killers have to do less than survivors do to win - then you don't deserve to have fun, and I'm tired of people pretending like it's okay to be a toxic player just because BHVR's dev team consists of killer mains only who clearly suck at their own game since they're okay with toxic actions.
2 -
If you don't want them to camp so badly, you don't need to have hooks, just use the same cage system as 2v8, or even a health system where if they go down 3 times, it's over.
Since we have the hook, the tactics of using the hook should be effective, not forcing the killer to move away from the hook.
1 -
plus 10 seconds to stages? what even is this game becoming? lmao
0 -
- Basekit BT doesnt relate to camping.
- Doesnt relate to camping either.
- Is hardly any useful with having to basically look into the killers face.
- Havent seen this once for a reason.
- Its still a trade if killer camps.
- doesnt do anything with proxy camping and is easily disabled by killer favored reasons.
Also, the new 10s arent that useful too. Just because many things got changed doesnt mean its affecting gameplay at a noticable level. Camping will still be the same strategy as before. And nobody needs to camp to win anything. Thats just a fake infomation by bad players. A strawman-argument at its best as we see from your post.
1 -
This whole "killers need to camp and tunnel or they lose" has always been bunk.
Wasn't it just last week where someone made a thread claiming to have proof that killers rarely, if ever, tunnel?
Consensus on tunnelling is giving me whiplash. Either everyone's doing it because you have to and there's no way to win without it, or no one's doing it and survivor need to stop crying, but somehow I feel like it's both at the same time?
1 -
When you create a thread like this, you need to remember that there is a huge % of the total player base who 1) has never even attempted to play killer; or 2) maybe tried playing as killer a few times and probably got destroyed, then went back to playing exclusively survivor.
This is why you get so many comments about how "killers can easily win without ever camping or tunneling" or "it's a skill issue". 95% of these comments are from people who never, ever play killer. They have no idea how difficult it is to beat a skilled team (even if they aren't 4-man SWF), nor do they care to ever try to put themselves in your shoes.
I always offer a challenge to anyone claiming how easy it is to win consistently without ever camping or tunneling to post some of their gameplay video to show us all how it's done (or better yet, link to stream so we can see their unedited gameplay), and not a single commenter has ever done so. Shocking, right?
2 -
I always offer a challenge to anyone claiming how easy it is to win consistently without ever camping or tunneling to post some of their gameplay video to show us all how it's done (or better yet, link to stream so we can see their unedited gameplay), and not a single commenter has ever done so. Shocking, right?I'm still waiting for the posters who say their killer matches are elite 4 person SWF one after the other to post their videos, but that doesn't get done either.
2 -
0
-
I'm pretty sure the one who want to keep camping is BHVR and not the players, to be honest
1
