Off the Record loses it's signifying "tell" with iron will change. Bad for survivor and killer
Prior to iron will's new change, killers were actively discouraged from chasing down people with OTR since it's just a waste of time (and let's face it, the OTR change awhile back was essentially intended to be an anti-tunnel perk). The killer chases them down endlessly, finally gets a hit, and the survivor gets endurance and flies off to another loop. OTR had a very distinct tell letting the killer know that this survivor is essentially untouchable by noticing that the survivor had no pain noises.
With iron will's buff, it now has a downside to both survivors and killers. It is now impossible for a killer to distinguish between if a player has OTR or iron will. This effectively removes one of the benefits of OTR - being a "do not touch - go away" anti-tunnel perk (I'm aware some survivors abuse this and weaponize it to just be an attention-grabber\body blocker, but that isn't the intended design for the perk). Now, killers essentially MUST go after anyone silenced while injured since iron will is on the table. If they never verify by actually attacking, then the survivor essentially has god mode while injured - killers wouldn't touch them. That's obviously not realistic, so all killers will now have to go after OTR users just in case it's merely iron will in play. This is bad for OTR users using it as an anti-tunnel perk (though strengthens ones weaponizing it to try to gain the killer's attention), and bad for killers because now they MUST always go for silenced pain survivors and risk extended chases being for naught if it ends up actually being OTR. Before, killers could just listen and realize it's OTR then let them go. That's no longer an option. Even if they have OTR, they could also have iron will - hopping onto a gen after getting unhooked (and losing OTR), but still being silent from iron will - the killer never knows if it's OTR or not, so they naturally must attack in almost every situation.
Due to this, I'd like to suggest that OTR has some new "tell" that's it's OTR. After all, it's entire change awhile back to 80 seconds was to act as an anti-tunnel perk OTR is supposed to be a deterrent - which now it isn't capable of doing. By OTR's change a while back, the design was to discourage killers from going after OTR enabled users. Before, killers would absolutely drop off OTR chases and in turn have survivors with it survivor longer, but now killers will have to commit to OTR users out of concern that it's actually just a very vulnerable injured player with Iron Will equipped.
OTR has now essentially de-volved into a free extra health state as long as you aren't progressing the game - which is silly. Killers need to be aware it's OTR as to discourage them from chasing down someone who had recently gotten unhooked.
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OTR has now essentially de-volved into a free extra health state as long as you aren't progressing the game
As long as you're not progressing the game, we as a killer couldn't care less since it gives us more time to murder your teammates.
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Exactly this. A survivor doing nothing of value for 80 seconds is a huge detriment for the rest of the team.
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No, I get that - and I entirely agree. My point in regards to why it sucks for killers is that before, you literally could have that thought - that person has OTR - they aren't progressing objectives and it's not worth chasing them down. I'm not going to go after them (again, a deterrent to tunnel them). However, now that might not actually be OTR - they VERY well could be a VERY vulnerable survivor that merely has Iron Will. While before, you'd let them go, now you have to go after them OR never touch them (which obviously isn't an option). Imagine never touching a survivor because you think they have OTR only to end up that they never had it and have been pushing gens the whole time and you had ample opportunity to down them.
This change to iron will makes OTR problematic for both sides. OTR is no longer a deterrent, and killers now are obligated to go after anyone who is silent at the risk of potentially wasting time on an OTR user.
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OTR doesnt help you if your being tunneled in fact OTR best use is healing and being undetectable the endurance is meh.
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I mean, it only really loses its tell if you run Iron Will alongside it.
If someone is making Injured noises and then stops after they're unhooked, it's pretty obvious.
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It literally gives you an extra health state. How is that not helpful? Gives you ample time to get to additional safety loops and wastes a lot of the killers time (with the exception of a few broken killers which that is a balance problem with those specific killers). It also helps you in those cases where a killer unintentionally goes after you a second time - happens in the chaos of matches. I've also watched plenty of killer streamers who call out that someone has OTR and decides to go for someone else.
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Not easy to keep track of a million things in a match as killer. Not to mention, there are ways to self injure yourself (for the people, for example), so the killer wouldn't even have the opportunity to realize someone is silent or not after being injured.
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It definitely does. Killers can't count to ten and wait out the endurance.
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First thing, if someone wants to tunnel, no amount of deterrents are going to stop them unless it's game breaking. That's pretty much a fact. We don't go out of our way to tunnel, but those that do probably don't care what you got.
Second, we as killer still feel nothing different as we don't care wether or not they got OTR or IW as we'll hit whomever we please regardless. The fact that they're silent never crosses into our minds as if they're in front of us, they are a target that needs delt with. We would not let them go just because they're silent because that would be silly as even if they had OTR, they're going to either A have to mend or B contend with us once hit. We don't feel any more obligated (Defined as: bound to a course of action) to do anything because of iron will.
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First part, you are correct. As I said, it's a deterrent - not a system to absolutely prevent.
Second part, to get it out of the way, I play both sides, but I'm a killer main. P100 The Ghost Face is my primary killer. Myself, along with many other killers including veteran killers and tournament killers have made decisions whether to bother chasing someone with OTR. For many killers, especially killers weak in chase such as many m1 killers, chasing someone with OTR is often not optimal - especially when there's other targets in the same area to choose from. If you have two injured survivors, one completely silent and the other howling to the moon in pain noises, which one are you going for before this iron will buff? Normally, you'd go for someone you know you'd down vs going for the person who obviously has endurance protection (unless the other is on death hook and you're at risk of losing and absolutely MUST eliminate another player - but that's just desperate measures). Again, it's a deterrent…at least it was.
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Yea… killer know the exact range of the anticamp feature I have a hard time believing timing….
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But if it doesn't deter them then is it so? (This is just for fun) If the killer doesn't notice or care about the sounds then does it deter?
Well now your going just gona have to guess if you wish to avoid it. We've been here since Doc and we can again say this in full honesty, we don't give a flying pancake about noise in this sense. To answer the question of which survivor we'd choose, it would be the closest one unless we know the other is bad at running. If we hit OTR it goes to either continue the chase with that or go for the other. If the howling survivor is a good runner compared to the quiet one then it's detrimental to go for them. If the howler is going to the strongest tile while silent Joe is going to the dead zones, what is better? If they used their endurance for a protection hit, then thats the universal sign that they want attention and that means someones gona try and merc them~
Even if we avoid the quiet one we're chasing someone (we're assuming in this scenario is someone got unhooked within line of sight but not completely next to us) by the time we're done chasing the other one then they've probably 1. progressed the game and woulda lost OTR even if they had it and even if they had OTR, they're very VERY unlikely to have been doing nothing unless they're actively wanting to hinder their team or 2. been a useless potato for that entire time which suits us just fine. Nothing about the buff changes these or our lines of thinking on the mater.
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No offense, but tracking who just got unhooked shouldn't be a herculean task. I think its fine if this is the problem, due to how easy the problem is to overcome.
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I agree it shouldn't, but BHVR doesn't want to do anything about people running the same skins, nor do they want to include UI elements for hook states, but here we are. Even if those weren't issues, when you come across someone, you still will have the issues of not knowing if they are OTR protected or iron will'ed. That's completely irregardless of if they were unhooked recently - 80 seconds is a long time. You come across them a minute later - Is it OTR? Is it iron will? Did they self injure with for the people? Who knows? Do you chase them down and risk it being a waste of time only to end up with them having endurance? Okay, maybe not, but what if they merely had iron will? Now you lost a chance at a down and potentially a winning game move. That's the problem. Unless they are in a very good loop, you're effectively shooting yourself in the foot if you don't go after them. Before, you could tell if they had OTR and make a quick judgement call if it's worth putting time into an extended chase. That's good for the survivor, and it gives the killer options. Now, you really can't risk it - they very well could simply have iron will and you get a free down. You essentially are incredibly incentivized to roll the dice to get a quick down or lose a lot of pressure, but either way, you're incentived to commit to the attack. Sucks for the killer due to the OTR risk, and it sucks for the survivor as that's one less tool available as an anti-tunnel. Now, even with OTR, you WILL be hunted down by killers - they can't afford to lose out on the chance you're a vulnerable iron will user.
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Literally all that's ever happened if someone is trying to tunnel someone is they hit them off hook, then hit them a few seconds later. It's not that hard as most hooks aren't next to anything super safe. Off the Record doesn't change that. There's a reason it was only run for like a week or two before people started running other things.
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Same skin - I mean worst case scenario, you enter chase with 2, chase drops on one, then continue chase or swap targets based on the name in chase.
Don't know if OTR/Iron Will - I mean there is enough context clues typically for one or the other. Even then, OTR is only going to be on (an average of) 1 person at any time. I think you can track 'SableFootSniffer' to be the last one hooked. If you have 2+ Survivors refusing to touch gens, then that is a winning scenario anyways.
How do you know if they used For the People? - FTP swaps obsession and inflicts the broken condition, so that's how you know. The only way that could be confusing, is if the OTR player brought Deliverance, in which case you already knew they were broken.
Overall, I have hearing damage, and never go in a match planning to tunnel (if you give me a post-hook protection hit, then I'm probably gunna tunnel you just because you wanted me to chase you). I have no problem winning the vast majority of my games, and I can't even fully use hearing to hear people through walls (but I can hear them off hook). I also have difficulties hearing the difference between a gen being progressed, and being worked (I can hear it, but I can't know 100% for sure).
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I'm sorry but all I hear is Skill Issue
Edit : This wasn't aimed as a slant agains't you Mizark
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