Can we make survivor easier for new survivor players?
We have seen a lot of updates to make killer mode easier and more accessible to casual and new players. I understand that sales drives decision-making, but survivor players are an income stream, also.
Best Answer
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A tutorial, for both sides
Not the joke we currently have.
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Answers
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2vs8 is that mode it is really forgiving on mistakes. There is not often killer stragedies like tunneling/camping and slugging in play which are really efficient agains't new players.
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It's hard to get my friends who don't play into the game. They want to hang out but they hate the bad form plays. They still jump when they hear the terror radius. 😂 And they can't hit skill checks and can't run for more than 5-10 seconds. This is a pretty unforgiving game to new survivor players.
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Then i saw the complete opposite.
New players are stomped by average killers there. The double down taps. Traps and Huntress. Hook tunnel Wraiths. …Nurse
It is a bit sad the DbD is so beginner unfriendly these days.
Can´t imagine starting the game now.
As the killer bots are obviously real i hope they make a surv training mode as well.
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The question is what's there to help? There's customs and adding killer bots to learn about each one but that's kinda the only thing we can think of for newer players.
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yes also something that explains killer perks and something for the concept of macro play and strategies. It’s super unfair for people getting mad at newer players in endgame (which I saw twice since coming onto steam from switch) for cleansing against vomit lady - how are they supposed to know that’s a ‘known’ strategy? Or that Myers can insta kill or huntress has an iri hatchet and so on.
There are so many killers and perks combinations that not many will have the understanding to read through them all and/or the patience to get steamroller til ‘they get it’ as the roster is much bigger now.
I remember being super confused when I first played the game and was terrified at touching gens cos when I blew it, I’d have teammates upset with me and so on.
Of course we don’t need to have things spoon fed but I remember when I started maps aware much bigger, CoH was a thing, exhaustion perks were in their pomp and the game wasn’t chase-oriented as much and I STILL needed time to acclimatise. For babies now, I can only inagine how steep the learning curve is.
Edit: ..and this is probably best done via a tutorial or separate game mode to avoid unbalancing the game as others have suggested :)
Post edited by For_The_People on2 -
There probably isn't a way to make it easier in the same way they have for killer without overall harming the game. Better tutorials, and the ability to earn more bloodpoints via tutorials to give players a start, would probably be helpful.
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Average killer still has like 1000 hours in game so ofcourse they can stomp new players. But lot more likely in 1vs4 than 2vs8. New players will be tunneled/camped in 1vs4 and so many loops now are so unsafe that they have no chance.
In 2vs8 there are so many pallets so even new players can bit last in chase as most killers don't chase together. Cage mechanic denies tunneling/camping so killers can't take them quickly out often. I see all the time complete baby megs and fengs escape in it which would never happen in base game.
All they have to know is to fix gens that wins most games. I escaped today 10 out of 14 games and 2 of those I died in endgame I saw many new players escape with me. Few good players can easily carry newer players in this mode.
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No you can't. And that's the issue, that the devs have been trying to do that for years. There's a caliber of survivor player which is exceedingly common, the average player actually, which doesn't understand that they have to do the gens to win, or get distance rather than hide to better avoid the killer. You're never gonna give solo enough buffs to where that type of player wins consistently, or if you do then that's even worse because it essentially means you have no balance. I don't knock new players who play like this either. They think it's a horror game, they're not efficient, they're still learning. But some players play like this after 100+, 1000+, 2000+ hours because they never had to get better, because everything they complain about the devs solve. They're never gonna acknowledge it's a lack of their own skill or experience, but instead just regurgitate "the killah is too OP." And since that's the majority opinion, the devs just accept that as gospel. It's completely disconnected from every other online competitive game, because the rest of them at least care about the higher skilled players.
I don't think you can or should make new survivor easier, because the tools are already there. Survivor, when played efficiently, is strong at base, then they have base anti-camp and anti-tunnel, bots when their teammates DC, and now 70 seconds on hook. To make it any easier would allow chimps to succeed at it. The most we can do is educate. Let people know about what they're objective is, good strategies, which perks are good, etc.
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And that's a failure of MMR. If they're new, they should be facing baby killers. It's not fair that complete mismatches happen all the time where 1 side clearly has more experience/skill than the other. It completely skews accurate analysis of what the game balance looks like.
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Honestly yeah, tutorials and information on perks, items, etc in a handy section would do wonders.
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The problem is everything they add to help new Survivors, just makes SWFs and strong Survivors much stronger, and that much more able to smash the weaker half of the roster. That's not fair to THOSE Killers, and it shouldn't be the way the game is balanced.
The Devs added more pallets and windows, that was a mistake and made playing lower tiers very hard, ruining Killer diversity. They're only just now course-correcting to fix that grave error.
They added a HUD and there's people who still want more info. They added beginner friendly perks to help like Deadline but they're locked behind paid content. They added everything but comms, and they should not add comms IMHO.
They added an AFC and genkick limit, and that didn't help. They buffed sabotage. They gave us tons of generator speed perks to help. They gave us chase perks, aura perks, antitunnel. Half of them are locked behind paywalls.
There's visual and audio cues, and nobody teaches them any of that. Nobody says to the noob, "look for yellow fabric on windows, those are vaults and those mean safety", they just go "just slap on Alert and WoO, you're good" and then people never learn how to properly loop. That causes people to demand MORE loops that are safer so they can win easier, MORE filler pallets, bigger maps. That hurts the weaker Killers for no reason, and so more people play the stronger ones that are harder to counter.
Then Survivors win when they group with their strong friends in SWF, get boosted, and they get Killers they can't handle and get MMR locked. None of that helps.
And almost ALL of this is stuff advanced Survs can use to make life miserable for the weaker Killers and new Killers. Look what everyone did that was good with the billion pallets, big maps, and crazy boosts in 2v8, they rapidly realized what it was and took to it like with the old versions of maps with 10,000 pallets. In a mode with two M1s, an M2 that was nerfed, an M2 that takes some practice to use and has many counters to her M2, and the lone superpowered Killer of the bunch Nurse.
What more can BHVR give to help at this point? What more can they give that doesn't give Killer players the shaft and unhelpfully boost newer Survs to where they do not belong? At some point you can't do bandaid fixes anymore. You have to have something to help train new people or lock them into a beginner's queue with other beginners, period. No MMR, no Killers above a certain hour threshold allowed, only newbies. And a better tutorial. Problem is IDK how you'd do the former without strong players going into that mode to stomp.
Post edited by VantablackPharaoh91 on2 -
Maybe they could have a newbie gamemode like you were suggesting and limit the perks used. We could do pre-made setups similar to what 2v8 does instead of custom loadouts, or just limit everyone to picking 4 general perks.
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This may be the best bet. Just try to keep the game fun and engaging for new players so that they want to stay and learn more.
Both sides have a lot to learn in the beginning but for survivors it's different. Even if someone learns the perks, masters the basics, and advanced techniques early on, they still have to deal with learning to play against each killer. Then then they have to learn to play against each addon that changes the way a killer plays.
As it is they are having to deal with the basics plus everything else right from the start. It could often feel over whelming. Many probably don't have the time to invest to learn each individual thing either.
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Decisive Strike, Windows of Oportunity, Distortion etc… All behind a paywall, eventhough they would help new players masively by offering a cover for their worst weaknesses.
It's just the nature of pay to win games, they can never truly grow exceptionally because of how much they stomp their new players
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Beginner mode could help people learning new Killers for the first time, too. I would love a space to practice Huntress without being shoved into the SWF wolf pit just because I am really good at Ghostface and Pinhead, and that drags my Baby Huntress MMR up.
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game has been notably easier for new players largely around hooks, and information of icons
If anything, killer has been stronger but nothing of the "difficulty" has been exactly changed
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The game is certainly unattractive to new survivor players due to the difficulties. Everyone I've ever asked to play say survivor is impossible. Even as a new player you can usually win as killer which is a stark contrast. New player struggles against an effective SWF but that's about it. BHVR needs to make survivor easier.
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I can’t get people to stick with the game either. For those willing to take a shot, they’ll try one, maybe two games as survivor, end up tunnel-camped and uninstall the game—a common experience for new players. Other people I’ve asked have said they’re turned off by the game’s reputation.
How do you suggest BHVR does this without disrupting killer fun?
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yeah I have a couple people who tried but won’t get back in because it’s so unfun for new players
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They just need a better MMR for this.
They can't really make survivor mode to be so easy that a new survivor can have 50%win rate with 1000hr killer, otherwise killer would be too hard to play with the same level playe……r….?
wait…… isn't it just what happen right now?
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I sometimes go against very green survivor players.
They almost always do the same things:
- They try to hide, crouching behind a wall … when I'm waiting right on their back.
- They violently enter lockers, again, to hide, notifying their position.
- They stay on gens and ignore friends hooks.
- They miss skill-checks a lot.
I'm not sure there is a reasonable way to help them.
The game could maybe insist on making them play killer as it's obvious they have no idea how the killer tracks them.
Good players play both sides anyway.
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MMR would not help as at the very beginning, killer is way easier than survivor.
Utter beginner against utter beginner: killer wins.
note: There is a bug on the forums: it very often doesn't do a "quote" properly.
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I think first step would be letting them know when they made a loud noise which can be seen, because afaik game doesn't even tell what is silent and what is not in current state
same goes for scratch marks, kinda
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This game is bad for ANY new player. Not just survivors.
Tons of DLCs, which gets total price of DBD into quite ridiculous number (300 euro +/-)
Insane grind on top of it...
I have over 2k hours and keep playing, because it's mostly fun for me. If I lost my account, there is no way I would start again.
- Some original DLCs should become free
- Improve generic perks (there should be anti tunneling perk for survivors and slowdown perk for killers). Killer generic perks are just bad overall...
- Teachable perk tier 1 should be unlocked as soon you purchase the survivor/killer. So you can spend BP only on characters you actually want.
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That'd be an option … if they'd read notifications.
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I mean not that kind of "letting them know", but rather more intuitive things like big transparent effect or screen border color change or something like that, anyone should notice those obvious effect… right
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In the old days we use YouTube for Information and kill with friends to get better. I Bring a handfull of people in the Game and teach them all i know. It was hard but all of them are now ultra Chad Gamer. 😁
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That'd probably work.
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There's an absurd amount of information that new survivor players are expected to memorize right off the bat:
They need to learn about every single killer, what the killers do and how best to deal with their power.
They need to learn about most killer perks and what they allow the killers to do and how best to deal with them.
They need to learn about most survivor perks that their teammates may have and what they allow survivors to do, and play around them.
They need to learn about all the different maps, where gens tend to spawn, where totems tend to spawn and where the stronger tiles are.
And obviously they need to learn the basics of actually playing the game, good movement, good game sense, prioritising gens but also knowing when to help out teammates.
Even with an experienced friend on Discord to tell you about perks when they pop up and giving advice on how to play against the killer you're facing, it's information overload.
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erm.. any space? lol
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What do you mean?
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just a joke - I meant do you have space in your group to teach me :)
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Sorry iam not as good today. 😂 In that time i played every day. Now i Play mouch less. And everyone IS better than me now. 😆 What i mean is, If you invite a new Gamer it is in your responsibility to teach him all you can and warn him for the cost that come. So you can Establish a healthy Community and friends that Love a Game. I make this for eldenring and bloodborne the Same. All are now real GIGA Chads and i Love to See they grow so fast.
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