Idea for new Anti-slug/bleedout mechanic to reduce effects of toxic players
Hey,
Alright so my idea won't prevent or stop this type of game-play happening, but it will serve to reduce the toxic nature of this type of strategy. It will have 2 sections with only the mechanic itself being "essential" and the other section more just being flavor for options.
So my main idea is there will be a new state a survivor can go in to after fully bleeding out, this state will prevent the survivor escaping and playing 'normally' but will allow for a counter to purely toxic killers.
MECHANIC: MARKED FOR DEATH (MFD)
When a survivor fully bleeds out, they will be given the option to stand back up and enter the "Marked for Death" state or die and go next, if they choose to enter the MFD state this survivor will:
- Gain a status like 'Mettle of Man' for 15 seconds so they cannot be downed or die to prevent insta downs.
- For the rest of the trial this survivor can no longer escape under any circumstance (exit gates blocked, hatch not intractable and whatever else might exist)
- The survivor cannot drop pallets
- If downed they will die
- If grabbed they will be dropped to the floor and die (can still be 'killed' with addons like Judith's Tombstone)
- The survivor can still participate in normal game-play (unhooking, gens, healing etc)
- The survivor cannot be healed and will be broken
- The survivor will drop any item they had and cannot pickup any items (unsure on how to make it work nicely with 'White ward' and 'Ace in the Hole' so that would need consideration)
- All their perks will be deactivated/removed for the rest of the trial
- After 120 seconds or when the last one alive, the survivor will die
These are the main aspects of the mechanic, but essentially they allow a survivor who was bled out to actually play the game for at least 2 minutes longer, they could use this time to save someone, pickup others or do whatever might help them alleviate toxic game-play but in the end, they cannot escape and will die no matter what and will realistically only be triggered if a killer intentionally slugs to bleed out.
Now as for the 'flavor' elements that could make it more appealing to both killers and survivors I will give examples below:
Regarding hook states: If the survivor has never been hooked they will get the full effect and no healing/repair penalty, if they are on phase 1/2 hook progress they will get half the time alive and a 25% healing/repair penalty, if they are on death hook they will only get 1/4 time alive and a 50% repair/healing penalty.
Regarding unhooking survivors: If a MFD survivor unhooks, they will die immediately/shortly after (this could only apply to those who were on death hook/whatever hook state already)
Anyway that is the basis of my idea, please take note that this mechanic would be optional for the survivor so they can chose to simply leave
Comments
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Toxic slugging definitely needs to be addressed. Sometimes it is the strategy to go for, like if there are a bunch around with flashlights or you need extra pressure.
I think base kit unbreakable would be best. Something like the 2v8 mode where if you’re dead on hook you can get yourself back up off the ground.0 -
Sorry but my god what a mess of an idea. Fixing a problem like this shouldn't require all this.
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Issue is if doesn't really fix this, no? Instead, killer can keep survivors in the game for additional 2 minutes, when they can't escape...
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Sometimes, gens get done too fast and slugging is required to slow progress
So no, I don't agree with this
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You're not wrong but I am pretty sure they already tried this and decided not to implement it. Anything added to counter 'toxic slugging' is the main goal for me, and obviously 'toxic slugging' is specifically killers who slug then don't hook to waste the survivors time.
The basic mechanic is not complicated on it's own and I believe most of the arguments that I would guess people would argue against my idea are covered, the only argument that I can see being viable is "this is too much work for the devs for something that affects only a small % of games" but of course I posted this to discuss the idea as well.
Is my idea overly complicated with all the nuances in my attempt to make it 'balanced'? Yeah it probably is, but that's only because I don't want my idea to ruin legitimate strategies and 'non toxic' behavior. It could easily be fixed by just adding a second life on a timer or even base kit unbreakable but that isn't what my idea is.
The only reason there is a list of points is to explain how it should work if it was implemented to not be 'game changing' or 'op' or remove viable strategies. Basically none of the points would need any explaining as you would learn them after doing it 2/3 times except choosing to become MFD meaning you can no longer escape and have a timer till death.
The best comparison I have of my idea is for battle royale type games originally having no 'second chance' so if you died at the start that was it, wait for friends or go next. But now-days basically every battle royale has some kind of 'second chance' mechanic because it means if you had a ######### start you actually have another chance to do something without going to the next game.
This is why the survivor would be given the option to choose to get back up or not, they would have like 5-10 seconds at most to make the choice so technically they would only be in the game 5-10 seconds longer if they wanted to go next and not try to get more things done by going MFD instead.
This wouldn't stop normal slugging from being a viable strategy because if the killer is actively looking for their 'slugs' in most cases they will find them before the bleed out and even if they don't the survivors that self revive can't escape and would be on a timer so the killer is still guaranteed that death. This would only affect the killer slugging then going afk and not hooking or ending the game and allow survivors to try turn the game around or get something done.
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Uh, no. This is a bad idea, nor is the issue it claims to address a statistically relevant problem.
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I actually quite like your idea, but honestly (unpopular opinion), I think they should just do this: Basekit Unbreakable at least once per Trial and if you fully recover yourself, you get 20 seconds of endurance, 7% haste and see the Killer's Aura.
Killers moan about this kind of idea, saying basekit Unbreakable would be way too strong and unfair.
Really? More unfair than having to just lie on the floor for 4 minutes (240 seconds) straight? "BuT ThERe's sITuAtIOnS wHeRE wE hAVe tO sLUg!". No, there's not. There is never a situation where you absolutely 100% must slug instead of hooking.
Just an idea. 😀
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As a Killer I actually approve of this idea, the way I envision this is that Survivor can do this once or twice until they are hooked twice. Though i don't think Survivors need the endurance, haste and Killer aura.
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The Endurance would just be there to help out in case the Killer is 'humping' you, or camping. That way you can get some distance from them when they hit you, be a little bit faster and see their aura for a while to help in chase.
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No thanks, cause then that will just encourage survivor to ready them being able to get up and then activate it before they are picked up to get the bonus.
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So… what when the survivors abuse boil over+map offerings, so the only way to secure kills are to bleed people out?
And, what about twins? how will they be affected??
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no
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I guess they'll just get hit as soon as they recover then. 🤷
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I think you should be able to pick yourself up if there is another survivor down and you are a certain distance from the killer (36 metres?). This would let the game know the killer has no interest in fair play. Instead of buffs to the survivor how about a killer debuff like *unsatisfied* caused by the entity. Make the killer slower for 10 seconds, this would interupt slug 3 and 4 and allow a pick up too.
Seeing as the survivor was downed if they get themselves up maybe give them broken for 90 seconds? Whatever is done it has to be fair, survivors running back and forth 5 metres around a hook and the killer who is hooking someone deserves a slug imo. If they are slugged together in one spot then that's on them, not the killer.
I am not a fan of the whole 1st 10 ideas solution tho.
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Finisher mori without unbreakable will fix any of the toxic slugging problem, we really don't need complex or elaborate mechanics that buffs survivors for no reason
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i like the idea and concept, its fair as it takes 4 minutes for a survivior to bleed out, slugging under no conditions should take more than 4 minutes so this mechanic shouldnt even be present in most trials.
Though i feel the conditions put on the survivor were a bit hard, but the aspect of it was really amazing
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There are so many hooks now and they respawn so that should not be issue anymore anyway.
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There are still safe zones on some map configurations, where the killer cant get anyone with boil over to a hook.
And twins still need to slug
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This is a separate issue that would need to be addressed by behavior themselves regardless of my idea. If there is genuinely, absolutely no way for a killer to make it to any hook when all 4 survivors are downed that is a problem that should be addressed on its own.
Obviously there are some nuance's to this (tenacity, flip flop, exponential etc) but I don't think my idea would really make this any more obnoxious, if a survivor MFD's they wouldn't be able to use a pallet, so if you were killer you could just wait for the first person to MFD then tunnel them out so they can't do anything, if the other players MFD you can literally AFK and they still couldn't escape so you could still play around my idea and win the game.
The twins would be 'affected' the same as any other killer. If you play twins and manage to down everyone, I find it very unlikely you won't manage to find at least 2 survivors within the bleed-out timer provided you are actually looking for them, which means if you hook 2 and 1 guy goes MFD that would still be 3 kills secured if you defend your hooks.
If you find the survivors but choose not to hook then that is the problem I want to be addressed because that type of 'gameplay' is not fun for the survivors or killers because all 5 players can literally AFK and the game will end with a killer victory. If someone finds this 'fun' they are a toxic person and the whole reason my idea exists.
Yeah I tried to be 'harsh' because I knew many people would think its overpowered if the survivor just got a second chance without 'debuffs' as there is a reason base-kit unbreakable wasn't added. But obviously anything legitimate to counter toxic-slugging is better than nothing.
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This is a separate issue that would need to be addressed by behavior themselves regardless of my idea. If there is genuinely, absolutely no way for a killer to make it toany hook when all 4 survivors are downedthat is a problem that should be addressed on its own.Yeah, but it needs to be addressed before anything like this will be valid.
There are several map configurations where this is the case, im a former killer main and i have had more swfs abusing this. As soon as a chase started they just ran to the safe spot and waited to be downed, the only thing i could do was to stand and wait for them to bleed or leave them for their team to heal up. I did choose the first option. - and often they were mad at me for slugging after the game.
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I think an option to put yourself in a cage like the 2v8 has would be great. It would move you to an area away from someone who is BMing you and progress the game towards an end. It would also give a chance for an uncage if another survivor couldn't get to you because the killer was walking back and forth on top of you like a psychopath. What is the time limit for this option? I don't know, but not being able to do anything for 4 minutes while another player BMs you is horseshit and needs to be stopped.
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