Hooks returning
I just realised this actually got put in the game, after the last update hooks that a survivor is sacrificed on get brought back.
I hated this idea then & hate it just as much now, this isn't fair at all. Survivors struggle to wiggle off anyway (for good & obvious reasons) it shouldn't be easy but a swf or just a toolbox - let's be honest - will make it that much worse. My problem is for 1, Breakdown actually removes the hook for longer. What!? 2, we argue about play styles & skill level, if you make a dead zone by not strategically or just in general thinking about hook placement for a survivor you down I can't stress enough how that's then on you. Plus saying that you can counter said problem by slug-ing if you need to.
It was something entirely avoidable & didn't need to be implemented, the fact it made it past the PTB is shocking to me. It doesn't tend to be a problem (dead zone of no hooks), it's occasional. So just the same I bet it didn't seem to matter to anyone that the change happened but now that I've seen it in the game I was just in I can't stress how humerous to me it was how quick it came back & how silly I think it is they actually added it to the game or how bad it could end up being. For something so situational it wasn't necessary & I really do hope this gets changed back. Maybe it is just me, but I'd like to think others can see the issue & also understand the argument that where other things we blame on playstyles this somehow wasn't just seen as player error before.
Comments
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Ah yes a run to a corner and get bled out enjoyer instead of just a menial change that makes edge case matches less frustrating
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Respawning hooks is great for survivors and killers. Less need for slugging.
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This was not a change for slugging, it's a kill qol change.
They can't try to claim there targeting slugging, without first going after slugging for the 4k. That's probably 70% of all slugging instances in the game.
This is like 1 in 1000 games this change would affect.
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Complete removal of hooks were far more unfair than the thing you are feeling unfair today, and there was nothing killers could do as survivors are absolutely the only one who decide where to down, there is no way to move a determined survivors besides simply bleeding them out
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It was literally implemented due to mandatory slugging in some situations. If a survivor goes down in some places, it is literally impossible for them to get hooked which causes mandatory slugging. This helps resolve this problem.
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As I said, a killer qol change. This doesn't have any significant impact to slugging.
Here are two of my top slugging experiences in DbD:
Had a slinger who downed two of us by the basement at the end of the game. He spent 4 minutes shootng the ground within easy range of unbreakable hooks while we bled out.
Had a bubba who slugged me and farmed with the last survivor. I crawled to a functional hook, and he stood watching as the other survivor healed me up and immediately slugged me again at the base of the hook. He downed and hooked her just before I bled out after 4 minutes.
It isn't hooks that were the problem in the vast majority of cases. This doesn't reduce slugging if the killer really wants to slug. Period.
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Think you're still missing it.
This resolves the issue of mandatory slugging. Not sure how many different ways I can try to explain this. This doesn't removing the ability for killers to decide to slug (which the devs have stated is considered legitimate gameplay) - it removes the issue where the killers MUST slug. This by definition means there will be less slugging in the game.
Personally, I think if someone is slugged, they should have an option to "give up", but for whatever reason, BHVR doesn't agree.
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Forced slugging still affects survivors and calling it "Just" killer thing is ridiculously biased, whether it's rare or not it exists and there was people complaining about it
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I'm not missing it, I addressed it in my very first response. That's why I call it a qol change for killer.
This doesn't a address slugging. At best, your talking about 1 instance in over thousands of games where this comes into play. So, effectively, the same amount of slugging still occurs.
Which is also what you're saying here. Intentional slugging is completely untouched.
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The implimentation of this mechanic was to avoid those tedious moments where a downed Survivor has moved into an impossible-to-hook area, meaning that the only possible and logical move by the Killer is to watch the Survivor bleed out - a scenario neither side finds enjoyable.
Regarding the points you made:
- Breakdown is then doing a good job as a perk to delay the use of that hook. It's effects have no bearing on the mechanic.
- There are ways Survivors can push a Killer towards using certain hooks. Whilst not a purposeful act on the Survivors' behalf, the Killer might have no option. This is not a "skill issue", but how rng and luck has played into a trial. Survivors have - rarely, perhaps - forced this scenario.
As you mentioned, it isn't a common scenario. Therefore, a QoL change to avoid the irritating bleedout scenario makes sense for these rare occasions. Both sides would rather just go to the next trial, instead of wasting time, which is what this aims to do. If this is rare, it's not likely to even be noticed, unless somebody is playing for this situation.
If it's "fairness" you're after, you'll be pleased to know Survivors will be getting an extra 10 seconds per hook state, allowing more time for Survivors to complete tasks, and reducing any incentive for Killer's to camp a little.
This is a good change, which will rarely be seen regardless, but will prevent those tedious, time-wasting moments that just prolong the inevitable.
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About a dozen of this 1: 1000 games have been mine, because I had so many situations where my first instinct was "great, I got to slug now", only to immediately remeber that the hooks had already respawned at this point.
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The statement that this is on the killer is simply wrong, survivors have more than enough ways to manipulate where they get hooked if it's even possible at all. If someone runs into comp-corner and I don't have agitation chances are big that I only have one hook to hook if even possible. Another example would be midwich that just deadzones you regulary by playing (maybe after the rework not as much? Don't know, didn't play it yet).
Slugging is btw NOT a fix for the problem because it doesn't advance the game at all and just waisted my time then lol.
Well that being said a wiggle-out is usually impossible without others helping anyways and more or less just existing to make hooking in the basement harder. I don't even care about it when I'm playing survivor and didn't see anyone else that cares about it so I think you're the only one annoyed by it xD
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I don't think you understand the unmentioned reason they are doing it. Having hooks return gives them design space to buff certain Perks which don't see a lot of use. More specifically Perks which lengthen the amount of time a Hook is down or anything to do with sabotage and so on. A dead space created by a destroyed hook would create horrible situations where the Survivor would just run back into it and the Killer had the choice of bleeding them out, or wasting time over and over again trying to get them to a hook. Certain SWF using synergized builds could amplify this effect.
Having hooks return, and thus no permanent dead spaces on the map means that they can create new Perks dealing with hooks or buff existing ones. For the DEV it is all about incremental changes to affect the Meta. The only people that are going to be affected by this change, and marginally at that, are people who utilize the strategies I mentioned above. To get the results of a wiggle out due to damaged hooks, the DEV want other Survivors actively creating the situation rather than it just being bad luck.
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With hooks respawning, the current RNG of hooks 10 feet apart and tiny maps, they now need to completely rework agitation and iron grasp. No need at all to be able to carry a survivor across map.
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Those are really more for trying to counter sabotages.
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I don't see any problem at all in using two perks only to hook a survivor in favorable locations
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hook deadzones aren't"player error" thing, because as Killer, you do not choose where a survivor is downed. Survivors take the lead of the chase and they go to the zone of the map they want.
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If there's only one hook in an area and a survivor goes down there you're not creating a dead zone by sacrificing them on that hook if that's your only option, the dead zone was already there. This is basically just a band-aid fix to the bad hook spawn logic on certain maps, Swamp and Midwich come immediately to mind.
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