Remove basekit endurance when getting unhooked for protection hits
Kinda a hot take but here we go.
The endurance given to a survivor when they are unhooked is supposed to be for dissuading the killer from focusing on that survivor and ignoring the rest. However survivors use this mechanic recklessly to protect others, thus encouraging the behavior this feature is sought to fight against. There are perks that already work with protection hits so why not use that to fix this and make the mechanic work as intended? After all a survivor should be punished for actively endangering themselves. I would make this affect only the basekit endurance, leave it on with perks such as Off the Record and such, as using a perk slot for doing certain things seems to be an affodable price for an action such as this.
Comments
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this has been a problem for years. It’s even more nasty with OTR + DS protection hits should count as conspicuous action.
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Protection hits can be unintentional or forced by the killer.
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Not necessarily. Survivors always have the option to run away in a different direction from the one who rescued them, thereby it is the survivors who force the situation, not the killer
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With OTR I think it would be fair for them to keep the endurance. After all they do use one perk slot and I believe it would be fair if you allow them to use the perk.
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Since a Survivor getting hit while too close to another getting chased (not even purposefully trying to block) counts as a protection hit, taking away Endurance on "protection hits" would be akin to put up a sign saying "tunnel me, I'll go down in one hit anyway".
With how common back-to-hook-Andys and tunnelling/proxy-camping already is, basekit BT would essentially not exist if the Killer triggered a chase before hitting the unhooked Survivor.
And anyway, if somebody uses their Endurance to (purposefully) tank a hit for someone then they can't complain if you switch to them.
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If you get hit within 10 meters of an injured survivor, it counts as a protection hit.
All the killer has to do is hit the unhooked survivor immediately after they get unhooked, and it'll count as a protection hit, and they'll go straight down.
So yes necessarily. If there's a way to abuse it, it will be abused.
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Untrue. Do you know how many times I’ve tried to run FROM the killer after being unhooked and I either A. Accidentally got hit or B. The killer hit me anyway just to force my endurance hit?
I played this game before basekit BT and evey killer came right back to hook to instadown you after you got unhooked. The devs are not gonna remove this and increase tunneling again.
If the survivors decide to use their BT to take a protection hit for an unhooker then you as killer can simply take that as a sign they want your attention and go after them again instead of the unhooker. Easy peasy. Fair and square. Basekit BT doesn’t need removed.
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I think Survivors should just lose collision with the killer when under BT/OTR. It would help killers as they won't be bodyblocked by a fresh hooked survivor and it would help survivors in situations where the killer just bodyblock until de basekit BT runs out.
Otherwise, it would be too hard to define when a protection hit is a body block or another thing, like being sandbaged by those who saved you (happens more often than you think).
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Killer main here and just one counterpoint. Charged pyramid head hits both survivors at the exact moment you unhook. Would count as protection hit but be not purposeful for unhooked survivor.
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Equip Forced Penance.
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Tell me you're proxy camping without telling me you're proxy camping.
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I mean im not going to agree or disagree with your idea, but what I will say is DBD considers anything a protection hit assuming you are at least on the same realm as another survivor. Run forced penance once, the game has literally 0 idea when a protection hit is occurring.
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They should lose collision for the duration of the free BT.
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The anticamp mechanic allows survivors to unhook themselves if the killer stays close for too much time. if survivors go for the unhook ASAP without allowing the killer to hav time to go away then they are also taking a risk they don't have to take. This would encourage safer unhooks in my oppinion via making survivors think twice. If the killer stays close for too long then the anticamp mechanic triggers and the hooked one unhooks himself and runs away
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But that is not its purpose. You are encouraging tunelling and thereby you are abusing a mechanic intended to dissuade that attitude. Thus you shouldn't be rewarded if you are taking a protection hit.
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This also seems fine, giving the killer the actual choice to tunnel or simply focus on the one who did the unhook seems fair.
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let the killer some time so that they can go far away, if they don't then the hooked one will unhook themselves due to anticamp. If the killer is far enough you will have time to split ways before they come back.
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what if there was a killer perk called “wait 8 seconds” in which case if a injured survivor is taking protection hits, if you wait 8 seconds the endurance goes away?
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This i dont know why it hasnt even been done yet.
Make the unhooked survivor just have no collision with the killer. Mantain the basekit BT effect.
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I disagree, it depends on the circumstances... sure, killers could choose to straight up tunnel and either wait out or hit the mending because they can farm STBFL tokens. But survivors can intentionally abused their limited timed Endurance status effect to tank a hit so they can get a free speed boost as well as protect their teammates, especially if they are injured too.
If anything, I wish that Endurance is scrapped all together and reworked to instead make the Survivor have no collision with the killer, as well as no hit box until they do a conspicuous actions or even a time duration. It would help with removing hardcore "Tunneling" while removing bodyblocking by the unhook survivors to protect their rescuer.
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I don't disagree with any of that.
But none of that negates the fact that protection hits can be unintentional or forced by the killer, so I'm not sure what you're disagreing with.
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If anything the endurance should be longer especially in 2vs8.
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Honestly what does it matter whether they get endurance from perks or basekit? just tunnel them if they want to waste their protection lol.
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You can hit someone instantly after they get off the hook. You literally don't have enough time to move.
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You know, this wouldn't be a problem if the Killer didn't hard focus on proxying the hook and start looking for the others as soon as they hook the first person. Perks like BBQ are great for that, but no one wants to run it anymore just because it doesn't provide the bp bonus anymore, even though it serves the same function.
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I don't think this mechanic should be eliminated but I do think it's absurd that people can force multiple protection hits with multiple second chance perks. Second chance type perks probably need looking at in light of how people actually use them.
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Doesn't work as protection hits aren't always intentional. Just imagine how bad it'd be to get hit when you think you have endurance, go down, then see an injured Claudette you didn't even know was there, not even the killer knows she's there! The system doesn't care about anything else than "are you near an injured survivor when you get hit?"
The far better solution is to look into disabling collision. They want to bodyblock? Walk through them.
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Endurance ends if the survivor is in deep wound, so it doesn't matter if they're using basekit endurance, borrowed time, off the record, dead hard, styptic, etc. They don't stack, so they cant force "multiple" protection hits. They get one endurance hit and then they're in deep wound, which disables all other endurance perks. The only exception is mettle of man but that perk is a meme.
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They could just add a grace period for the unhooked survivor to have their basekit BT not count as a protection hit unless in a chase for x amount of time, say 2-3 seconds. That prevents it becoming a protection hit under the hook while punishing the unhooked survivor for trying to take hits for the unhooker.
Otherwise @Rickprado has the right idea.
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Play Machine gun killers like Leatherface, Huntress or Trickster. Otherwise if you want to play other killers, you can use nerfed version of STBFL and RB.
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True... It would be problematic for survivors that run mettle of man or some sort of a Protection Hit Build, as body blocking injured teammates especially as the unhooked survivor with endurance is a easy way to farm Protection hits (to a degree).
But... I do think it is kind of stupid that a mechanicthat is designed for the unhooked survivor to run and flee, which gives them a grace period to go run and hide and get their heals done; is most often exploit by experienced Survivors mains to be "aggressive" in keeping the killer from switching targets or even intentionally bodyblocking a narrow pathway for a limited time to delay the Killer's momentum in applying pressure.. which in turn creates the false accusations that the killer is "tunneling" when they encouraging that kind of behavior.
Perfect Example: I am playing any Killer, say for instance.. I am playing the Wraith for this example... I down Survivor A next to the basement and hook them there. I leave, I patrol around abit, especially when I am down to 2-3 Generator left completed. I just noticed not just one but two survivors going down to the basement and going for a risky save, as I see them running instead of being sneaky about it. I got to them and injure Survivor B, then I tried again after a save is happening but survivor C bodyblock the hit protecting survivor B, all three injured survivors are running up thr stairs... I need to down one of the two rescuers, to secure my pressure in the match. But then, the unhooked survivor is bodyblocking me at the shack pallet and prevent me from down the others and intentionally bodyblocking me, before the others can get to safe loops. I decided to wait out the timer, since it is quite clear that the unhooked survivor is getting in my way when I could have secure a fair down if he hasn't gotten in the way.... he gets killed eventually and complains that I tunnel. When I wasn't planning on targeting him in the first place. I also noticed he was running DS, that he already wasted on his first try, and OTR too, and dead hard. (Which he was bad at timing)
If endurance was scrapped and I can simply walk right through the unhooked survivor as well as being unable to harm them. Then i can focused more on securing more hooks and fair down on other Survivors and less on tunneling, when they have that kind of "Protection" in effect.
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The solution is easy, when i play killer.
If anyone use the basekit BT to take a protection hit, then they agree to be my new target.
And then i do not consider it as tunneling to target them again, as "we" just made an agreement that it is ok.
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If they are body blocking for a survivor just wait 10 seconds down them and hook them again. They are punished for body blocking with basekit BT and you have insane pressure now that they are on death hook or dead.
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Doesn't work since they tend to bldyblock you as well, making you waste time and a bit of pressure.
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In that case just make them loose collision with the killer until the endurance effect ends
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The problem with this is that they can have OTR+ DS + DH and consume a good chunk of your time with this chase, specially if you are playing a weaker killer. I really wish when playing killers survivors couldn't use anti-tunnel endurance as a bodyblock, since its purpose in the game its not to give free health states but to help in a situation where the killer wants to hard tunnel.
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This I agree with.
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That's not really what I meant, the problem is really how multiple Survivors can run endurance perks and force the Killer to waste hits this way, including off hook, which inevitably can do stuff like force the Killer to tunnel or let the Survivor go, force a hit, and literally prevent spreading hooks just because they don't want their friend out of the game too fast. The auto aiming issues do not help; you could be going for an unhooker but due to autoaim, hit the just unhooked person and look as though you are tunnelling.
The issue isn't that you can have more than one endurance hit up at a time on one person, you can't. The issue is that multiple Survs can have endurance up at one time and it creates a lose-lose situation for the Killer if even one of them decides to be aggressive, creating situations where the Killer tunnels without WANTING to tunnel.
The endurance status in this case is used aggressively, which is not really what it's designed for. It's designed as antitunnel, and it's being used in an unintended way to cause situations that the Killer player cannot control, getting them accused of being a jerk when they are just countering a tactic. This is, I believe, where a good chunk of accusations about tunnelling actually come from and why cries of "but tunnelling is so common now!" need to be taken with a grain of salt.
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Sorry to say, but this might be the most poorly thought out suggestion I've seen on the forums. All it would result in is killers proxy camping a hook, and then hitting the survivor the moment they are unhooked and then hooking them again.
Can you not think of a fix that doesn't enable and encourage the most obnoxious, low skilled crap plays from the killer? You can't complain that survivors body blocking is unfair, then suggest that turbo buffing hook camping is the solution.
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