We kinda need a anti-stall mechanic for survivors

Yes, it's death for both if the killer so chooses. After all they know where the 4th survivor is or was 30s and can slug for them. There is some variance and details in the implementation of course and but it's not anything more than a 50/50 on who gets to die with a high chance of 4k-slug after. I would like solutions to both by the way. What you are insinuating is quite disingenuous. These basekit changes allow survivors to play the game in the first place and guess what, killers received at least one of those fixes too - removal of locker flashy saves and then the entirety of 6.1.0. Of course these mechanics make it easier and harder for sides respectively because what they address is quite literally brainless gameplay like keeping a killer stunlocked for 12s or hitting survivors off hook without basekit protection of any kind.

Unsafe unhooks gets people tunneled. You have my sympathies that you don't win the game right there anymore and either have to take an easy trade or tunnel them out. It's indeed quite sad. Though funnily enough against strong killers safe unhooks aren't even that safe if they are even possible in the first place like huntress on a hill or anyone with mobility. For the record I don't agree with recent last sabo changes, hookgrabs were stupid though. We've strayed pretty far offtopic and this selective weighing up of changes/issues serves no real purpose.

in a situation where they have won alredy anyway

The game doesn't see it that way. It doesn't treat survivors as a team. I'm just pointing it out btw.

…okay, man. I totally said you should put up with this forever.

I'm not complaining. I'm pointing out that most suggested solutions suck. Maybe you explain to me why a survivor happily running to their death is playing as intended or has any value from a game theory standpoint. According to the game no survivor owes the others anything. So someone showing himself without a way to escape to maaaybe enable the other to escape is quite literally a throw technically.

The simplest thing they can do is if survivors don't do something to progress the game after say, 90 seconds, I.E.

• Be chased
• Save a survivor
• Heal
• COMPLETE a totem/boon
• Do a gen for at least 5 seconds

Then they start to get crows, that way the survivors can't hide forever without doing something and eventually you can find them either through the crows, or naturally through them doing gens and making noise.

Im seeing a lot of "nothing for survivors to do"... Not true, they do have gens to do but CHOOSE not to do them as it will result in "certain death". So many say "what am I supposed to do, give the killer the kill?" Ok fair enough but if the killer doesn't kill either survivor and the game goes to server end time the survivors get automatically sacrificed anyway. Now you could say if a killer CHOOSES not to kill them then that's ok? I bet a lot of people would have an issue with that. They already have an issue with the 4min slug timer. If a killer kills 1 of the survivors then it's certain escape for the other one via hatch. Sooo it works the other way round, what is a killer supposed to do, give survivor the hatch?

I'm tempted to experiment with that, just not do my objective because someone might escape the hatch, take it to end server time. It's clearly ok for survivors to do it after all.

Sure. The biggest is 3v1. :)

There are very simple changes that could put an end to this problem once and for all:

1. Make the crows and noise notifications appear due to lack of objective progression and not only lack of movement.
2. When a killer/survivor stands still for a reasonable amount of time, make them intangible so you can go through them.
3. Stipulate a reasonable limit to accomplish the trial objective. If a game lasts too long the “game collapse” starts and all the survivors automatically die for failing in their objective to escape.

The problem there was Endurance no longer could stack. If the Killer hit basekit BT into perk BT into OTR into DH, then all would be fine, since the Killer could simply avoid all of those by chasing the rescuer instead. When the Killer has to gamble into how many Endurance states someone has off-hook, the game is better off. This might need something like 'no collision until CA off hook' to prevent body-block abuse, but otherwise is perfectly fine to have Endurance stack.

You could simply have this mechanic not trigger until a survivor or 2 is dead.

In a 2 people with 2 gens left and a Spirit with gens relatively close? Neither of them tried to make a play and unless they could loop a good spirit for 180+ seconds then theres no point. I play altruistically often but in this scenario its just up to if you want to sacrifice yourself by doing a gen or not

Okay well some people would rather win and you can't blame or get mad at them for wanting too

It could also even remain for all four but pause, not reset, within a killers terror radius. Maybe start the timer off high but make it a little shorter each time a survivor is sacrificed. Might even make solo queue feel more bearable. I wouldn't even be against a less generous time. Maybe 60 seconds when only two are left

Anti facecamp was NOT a waste of time. No more facecamp bubba which is a succsess in my book. And what do you mean by proxy camping??? do you expect the killer to go at the very other edge of the map to let survivors unhook in peace? If devs actively start going against every single strategy killers have, you will not have many killers left anymore. Its hard enough to keep up with gen speeds. And if you dare to say skill issiue, i can also say skill issiue the moment you even land on the hook. So anyone who gets proxy camped in the first place should just loop better.

Oh my.

Of course AFC was a waste of time. Since Facecamping barely existed it all. All the feature did was that you now have a bar which does not fill up while getting camped. And mind you, this is not only the Killer being the minimum distance to not trigger the feature away, it is also things like camping someone who is in the Basement or on other Hooks which are hard to reach for a Survivor who wants to go for the Unhook.

And well, nobody is saying that the Killer has to go to the edge of the map. To quote you, you are just "inventing fantasy scenarios". But if Killers dont even try to get into other chases because proxycamping is just so good, this is just a problem.

And well, saying that someone should loop better, in a time where Loops are so unsafe that you get easily bloodlusted… Not really a valuable tip. Except if you can tell me what I should do against a Killer who refuses to kick a pallet because bloodlusting is just free (if we look at free = getting the down).

How you can even say anti 3-gen was HELPING killers is a super wild claim and has litteraly no logical basis.

It is actually very simple, but you dont want to understand it. To prevent 3-Gens, they implemented a feature which almost never comes into play. I have never seen a Gen being blocked in my games, neither as Killer nor as Survivor. I dont say it never happens, but it barely happens.

However, the changes that Survivors cannot tap Gens anymore to stop them from Regressing is far more relevant for games. That they also increased the damage done by a Kick to 5% is also something that comes up in every game.

So basically Killers got a Nerf which barely ever affects them, but got also a Buff which is more relevant and a Buff which comes up in every game where a Killer kicks a Gen.

It gets blocked at 8, but the spikes appear earlier, most likely as a warning.

Complaining about hook sabo's when you usually have four hooks all within 8 metres of each other is actually hilarious.

You talk about how making unsafe hook rescues used to be a bad play that could be punished, yet it still is a bad play that can be punished. If you think immediately downing the unhooked survivor, who has no control over when they're unhooked, is punishing the unhooker then you're dead wrong. The unhooker doesn't care. If they did, they wouldn't unsafe unhook in the first place. This is actually why basekit BT became necessary.

Why do killers need a mechanic in place that's going to guarantee them a 4k if they get down to two survivors remaining?

The problem with this subject is that any potential solutions are going to have drawbacks that leave one side unhappy.

Killers don't want survivors to stall, which is fair enough. Survivors feel like it's a lost cause when only two of them are left and there's more than one generator remaining, which is also fair.

The problem is finding a solution that's somewhere in the middle of what both parties want. You can't give killers a mechanic that's going to guarantee them a 4k, as then the two remaining survivors automatically lose.

You also can't give the survivors something that's going to guarantee their escape, either, as then it forces the killer to accept a 2k.

It doesn’t matter. Turning a match into a 3v1 at pretty much any time carries a chance at massive snowballing for the killer. Survivors don’t have that as an option unless the killer allows it. Killers don’t need a survivor’s buy-in or consent to turn a match into a 3v1.

I wouldn't mind due to it being more intense.