Fix For Slugging

It's only 4min to bleed out, it's the same time as end game timer when someone is hooked or slugged. It's really not that long. If bleed out time can be reduced willy nilly by a survivor then I would like to reduce end game timer willy nilly

I won more of my normal fair share of matches in that PTB because people were playing much too greedy. The 45s window made them more predictable (since only 1 person in my 10+games even bothered to bring UB), and Flip-Flop+Power Struggle users played too obviously so you just insta-pickup. No one was around to pallet save since they knew their buddies could pick themselves up, so that made pickups even safer for Killer.

The real problem with that PTB was Killers attempting the Mori system which allowed an instant win at all slugged. Even Killers that couldn't down people that fast were still attempting this boring playstyle, which basically encouraged ratting all game.

The correlation depends on the Killer. The Twins, for example, seem almost designed for slugging. It is their most effective strategy. Likewise, a Bubba was clearly intended for dropping multiple Survivors at once, and slugging for him is natural. I'm sure you would rather fight him slugging around the map than camping, which he is also good at. Then there is a Myers in Tier-3, who would be wasting his limited power by spending time hooking people. Trapper, when the plan goes right, has his best shot when one is on the hook, and one or more is in a trap. The rest will be running to help the trapped one get free and slugging is ideal at this time. Plague, likewise, infects people when played correctly and hopefully gets everyone ready for an instant down. Wasting her one-shot ranged attack when in her power is insane. I could go on and on.

The important thing to remember is that every match is different. Some Killers are pretty much designed for one tactic or another. Sometimes Killers not so inclined also have tactical reasons to do it. Imagine you get into a match with a bunch of really good Loopers. Let's say you have a high MMR, and you are fighting some serious talent. You work hard to get one down and see a chance to get another. If you hook, and go about your business you are letting them reset. You have to run the same nearly impossible chase again. If I get SWF who are clearly coordinating and communicating with one another and hard to catch, I would rather slug and use their team mentality and info against them. I have a better chance bagging the lot with the odd slug here and there. Again, it depends on how the match is going. Sometimes you have to slug them all or face all four reset and rolling you. I'd rather have a win than a loss with a few more hooks.

All that being said, I don't go into a match with slugging, tunneling, camping, or whatever on my mind. I do whatever I have to in the moment. No plan survives contact with the enemy, so there isn't much point in having a full strategy worked out before you know who or what you are facing. For that reason, I don't judge Killers or Survivors for whatever legal tactic or trick they use. That is their business; mine is how I will react to counter. I don't think trying to complain or shame Players for using allowed, LEGAL tactics is ethical or has any class whatsoever.

Who gets looped endlessly in this game anymore?

Could say that to survivors that tea bag by the gates. Except 3k doesn't give anywhere near as many points as 4k does....

I mean someone 'abusing' something and losing is far different from 'abusing' something and winning. Killer Mori system still had bleedout wins, even if they didn't get the Mori. Survivors were losing attempting to 'abuse' self-pickups.

I don't think you understand the nature of competitive games. The fun comes from striving to be the best. Most people, growing up, learn some game from a parent (or both); mine was Chess. There is that moment of disgust and anger that comes when you get good enough to figure out that they are taking it easy on you. Almost all of us say the same thing, "I can win on my own. Don't do that." The pride and joy comes from that first real win, that victory wherein you know you beat them on your own. Nobody wants pity. You and your opponent will always know the truth on some level and it grates upon the pitied person. It is a insult, albeit one that supposedly is born of kindness.

A competitive game is just that, a contest where both sides give their best in the attempt to win (or achieve the objective). It is disrespectful of your opponent to dumb down the game for them. It is the same as saying, "don't worry kid, you will be ready for the real thing someday. Until they I'll carry you because it pleases me to stroke my own ego." Your opponent doesn't want fake wins. They want to earn it. They will be overjoyed if they are doing well up until the moment they figure out you are toying with them. Your intentions don't matter; the road to hell is paved with so called "good intentions." I would consider it an insult to be treated as such, and thus I try not to insult my opponents thus.

The fun of "competitive" games is in striving against adversity, to overcome and achieve. You bring your own fun with your mindset. Your only responsibility is to bring your best for your opponent, and them do the same for you. You only get out of game what you bring into it. Your fun, and their fun, must be brought and maintained by the respective parties. If you don't find fun in the contest itself, hard and stressful, you are playing the WRONG sort of game. There are countless games out there that are not competitive or at the very least, are not Player Versus Player. There are cooperative games. There are games against AI designed to be no harder than you, yourself, set the difficulty slider. Do you get my point? Two generations of people playing video games wherein they get to "set the difficulty" has evolved a mindset, a sense of entitlement, wherein many Players think they get a say in how difficult their game should be, even when matched against other Players. Hubris.

This is a pretty generous interpretation of EGC. It's 2 minutes by default. The only way EGC is lasting 4 minutes is if you slug. A player goes through both hook stages in 2:20. At which point you've gotten a kill.

So basically no matter how you slice it, allowing a slugged survivor to speed up their dying is going to affect slugging as well as EGC.

The solution was final mori, so depending on how they've changed it, you might get an answer in september.

https://x.com/ScottJund/status/1770484204251369592/video/1

This is just a test if a reply quote in the edit notifies someone or not.

Edit: It doesn't seem to let you hit "Quote" at the end of someone's post to put in an edit or copy it from the comment to transfer it over.

First of all, whataboutism.

Second, not every survivor does this.

Third, you've given up your argument entirely now. If they're teabagging, then no one is slugged or hooked and EGC is at most 2 minutes. If two minutes is so atrociously bad to wait out, then you're fully agreeing with me that 4 minutes of bleeding out is far, far worse. And there should be a way to reduce the bleed out timer.

You clearly haven't understood what I said. In my experience literally every single match where the team escape, the team will wait by the gates regardless of what is going on. If someone is slugged half way across the map the other survivors wait by the gates and tea bag. That is waiting 4min by choice for the players at the gate. It usually happens when I go a killer I'm not familiar with so end up losing badly but survivors will wait out the timer fine when they are the ones winning. They only don't like it when they are losing. I don't mind waiting the 2min or 4min (I have to wait that time regardless because I can't move on to the next game until the slugged survivor dies) but the point is survivors choose to wait when they can escape.

I'm a killer main who hates slugging. The reason it's so popular is because killers are insanely vulnerable when picking up or carrying survivors. This is in addition to actually hooking taking quite a bit of time on the killer side. Hooking advances the game state for the killer, but at the cost of reducing pressure on survivors. And if you pressure hard enough you achieve a 4 slug which is effectively an instant win.

Most of the save mechanics are not super powerful on their own, but the fact that there's so many puts killers in a lose lose situation. Any time a survivor goes down near a locker, a pallet, or an open area, hooking becomes a pretty big gamble against competent players. It's lose lose all around because most survivors can be pretty easily countered by looking at walls, but really good survivors can make hooking not a viable strategy.

Personally I do think survivors should be able to pick themselves up at the cost of a hook state, but only after being on the ground for 60 seconds, similar to the hook stage timer. This might suck for killers in some ways, but it makes for a healthier game overall and they still need to spend a minute on the ground to unlock the option.

Can someone explain how basekit Unbreakable was abused and didn't work out? I'm having a hard time understanding that. If killers are doing their job, a survivor shouldn't be on the ground long enough for them to get back up, right?