Next 2 Vs 8 keep Huntress out.
Every match has her. Broken hitboxes. She makes the mode not fun.
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Her hitboxes are fine, it is the latency that makes it horrible. 2v8 just reveals a flaw that has existed for a long time, any laggy Killer gets bullschenanigans hits because there is no server verification. The best solution is to add server verification (like during that one patch where pallet stuns had verification). If a server sees someone clearly around a corner from a hatchet, then deny the hit with the verification.
Alternatively, we could do a middle ground, and deep wound on injured hits when server verified. That way you can tell lag hits on injured Survs if you Deep Wound them instead of downing them. You can still get another lag hit to down them, but it gives just enough on the Surv end to know their efforts weren't useless. People forced into far off servers as Killer can still get downs eventually, but would be enough of a disincentive to VPN for a lagvantage like currently happens.
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The deepwound is REALLY difficult to code in without creating more lag tho. The best solution is to simply move the hitbox on hatchets a little to the back of the projectile. That way, there could be like a 0.2 second delay on a survivor getting hit, but a hit would 100% be a hit. While a survivor turning the corner would not get hit.
It would mess with Huntress mains who have the entire throw with muscle memory, but it shouldnt impact their performance.1 -
I would disagree. All you need to do is give people (hidden) Endurance by default, and remove it on verification. That fulfills the Deep Wound while injured concept without adding a bunch of new things beyond the verification itself.
Also it would only mess with laggy Huntress mains, who were getting effectively cheated hits, and give them an extra damage state to chew through instead of abusing lag.
Edit: I play at night a decent amount, and also get an above average amount of players VPNing from across an entire ocean, so I really get annoyed by enemy Killers effectively cheating with the bad latency system that favors the Killer almost exclusively.
Post edited by mizark3 on1 -
Well, the problem there is still that you have to check every single hatchet throw. Pallets and DH are already quite a thing, and they bypass pallets by ignoring the validation at all if the killer gets hit with the pallet first (this is very noticable if you M1 and still injure the survivor, because on the survivor end, the hit still connected).
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I mean it would check every hit (ideally). One check every ~20s isn't going to exactly break the server bank methinks, it isn't like an FPS with automatic weapons. To be fair though, I don't have coding experience with programs interfacing with the internet (only local system).
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Her Hitboxes are fine and very easy to dodge if you are more than 10 meters away. I really don’t understand the trouble when going against her. One of the easiest killers to loop in the entire game. Has one of the highest escape rate and lowest kill rates. Does even worse in the comp scene and top MMR. Half the maps in the game are against her and 30% of the loops in this game you have to M1 at.
She has so many tells for her power. A map wide sound AND a loud grunt when readying a hatchet. The only reason you would ever get caught with one is because she is breathing down your neck, not paying attention or is absolutely cracked and making good prediction shots.Her Hitboxes are not broken, it’s the survivor Hitboxes that don’t follow the lean of the survivor. But if you change that then goodbye looping👋
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Chasing against huntress alone is never a problem because simple predrop can easily counter her without issues due to ridiculous amount of pallets, and then if killers decide to chase with two of them it's an auto win for survivors cause 7 people are doing gens
Definitely non issue, on top of those you are effectively REDUCING the variety by that, resulting in much more "every match has him or her" than now
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Amen.
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Is it really the survivor hitboxes that are like that? Not asking sarcastically or anything, I haven't seen anything on it myself and I'm actually very curious.
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They're pills that extend upward from the back of the survivors foot. People don't understand that so they complain when they get hit. When you know where the hitboxes are and figure in latency it makes more sense when you get hit.
Also I've never felt like latency benefited me as a killer. During the day I get matched against south American players and the number of times they scream and it's a noreg and I eat a pallet are ridiculous. I cannot see how it's an advantage.
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I looked up some images on this as well. I'll probably look for video of it to see it in action, but this makes a lot of sense with some hits I get with Xeno.
As for latency, yeah I've had the same experiences with false-positive hits.
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Yes the Hitboxes don’t follow survivor very well at all as they don’t follow the slouch of injured survivors. Making some hits seem even worse than they are. But these cant be fixed because if they change those than survivors wouldn’t be able to loop nearly as well and would thoroughly gut the looping ability.
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Huntress out.
Bring pig! I want some bear traps on my face 😍
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The existence that is huntingless in 1vs4 should only play a game of FPS origin if I want to do unnecessary one-sided shooting
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So the problem with a lot of things is TPS and ping. Basically, you can see every player as its own NPC that recieves input from someone else. If that NPC is 500ms behind the real player, that means the player gets hit up to 0.5 seconds after they fully turned the corner. To check that locally is relatively simple, because they either basically have 0 ping or the ping is practically 0.
Ping is always the issue here, because you not only have to keep track of the killer input, but also survivor difference. You basically have to constantly calculate what the actual position is on the server.
You can somewhat mitigate that with having an actual game being played on the server itself, giving you a chance of a replay and all inputs are executed on the server, but that requires some beefy servers. Riot and Blizzard literally own entire warehouses to support their games being instanced on their own servers. BHVR aint that big (yet), and it will almost never be a financially sound decision unless they basically get regular events that are sponsored by Microsoft or smth. Instancing a game like that on rented servers is basically going to ######### on all other optimizations they performed the past 5 years.1 -
I mean both Riot and Blizzard are using massive FPS games with automatic weaponry and far far far more effects (like flashbangs/smokes/powers). DBD only needs to check one time per 2s at the most frequent (with back to back STBFL/hatchet hits). I think checking 10 600rpm guns being fired simultaneously would necessitate those higher level checks and servers, but DBD is nowhere near that.
All I'm saying is to check with the server on hits like the picture shown below. We currently use the Killer's Screen. Also I'm not advocating for something as extreme as the Survivor's Screen. Just what the server 'sees' at the time of the hit.
Also again, I'm merely proposing Endurance for these hits, so a Deep Wounded Survivor still goes down with one of these lag hits, even if they get the server validated Endurance. Or a laggy Huntress could land 3 hits on a healthy Surv and down someone, even if all hits were lag shots. All it does is add a single extra hatchet needed in the worst case scenario (Injured Surv), and in 2/3 scenarios lag shots are still fully effective (Healthy/Deep Wounded).
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But the thing is, having any system to check takes a LOT of server effort, especially if you dont directly own those servers and have no genuine control over when to increase/decrease the load of the servers on a whim. The DH and Pallet checks are already quite taxing, and if you are on the laggy end of that exchange, you will definitely notice frame drops.
I know what you mean to implement, but at this point, its EASIER and less laggy to somehow create a replay function from scratch and then have the server check for things. In that case, cheaters could also constantly be rolled back (like if a ghostface teleports 20 meters, he could be rolled back within 100ms) as you can check for coordinates.0 -
there is no server verification
That's not true. Her hits can get validated -> Huntress hears a hit, but nothing happened.
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That's generally outdated information ever since the animation rework. Injured Survivors don't slouch over that much anymore.
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They don’t slouch as much but it’s still bad enough to be the main issue for the hits looking so crazy besides internet and ping. Her hitboxes are not crazy at all, they follow the EXACT same logic as every single projectile in DBD. A perfect circle from base to tip, with the object collision box being slightly smaller.
If they ever make her hitboxes smaller they are going to have to do some extreme buffing of other areas. Probably 115%, 90% when holding and insta downing base kit past 32 meters. Since her kill rates absolutely plummeted last time.
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The issue is that once you start getting even a remotely shoddy connection, Huntress starts hitting people around walls. She is by far the worst in terms of egregious hits compared to the other ranged killers.
The lack of proper validation is kind of wild.
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And at the same time ive had countless hatchets hit survivors making the sound effect and not counting. Or just completely going through the model and not counting. It goes both ways. And honestly she still has one of the lowest kill rates in the game to this day so it clearly isn't as big of an issue as everyone makes it out to be.
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We don't actually have any up to date stats on Huntress. The last kill rates that were released were before her buffs. Unofficial stats place her nowhere near the bottom of the roster.
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According to Nightlightggs (not official I know) she is at 55-56% the 5th lowest of all killers. The data is taken by a program linked to your account. She also has the the 7th most 0 kill games, 5th most 3 man outs, 5th most 2 man outs, and 3rd lowest 4ks.
According to the last official stats released by DBD She was the 7th lowest in all MMRs and 4th lowest in Top 5% MMR for kill rates. For supposedly being an overpowered killer, she has never been close to the top when it comes to winning, and is not at the 60% target Devs want for killers.
So yes the official stats that are on this website right now do place her near the bottom.
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Or just reduce her buffs. Max Hatchets down to 8, no increased movespeed when out of hatchets would be a nice start.
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Are we looking at the same Nightlight? She's listed pretty much smack bang in the middle. Just above the average.
The official stats are not really all that relevant either, at least until we get some new ones, since she got some pretty significant buffs.
I don't think anyone in this thread actually called her overpowered either, just that her latency issues are frustrating.
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How about no? At least as long as the screen are so badly syncroniced, I already get enough hits that just get rejected, I don't need more of them lol xD
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Yep it’s the same one. Look at her percentages and compare them to every other killers, that’s what I did to get those numbers.
And no, nobody here called her overpowered in this thread but it can’t be denied that’s the majority opinion on her. Several posts in the past week saying to remove her from 2v8, or significantly nerf her. Along with a bunch of posts before and during her latest PTB suggesting nerfs before it and sheer outrage after she got some small qol buffs.
Her “significant” buffs weren’t enough to change her Nightlight stats in any meaningful way. I’m assuming the official stats will reflect that as well.
My main point is if she gets any changes in the future they should be buffs. She is in no way deserving of nerfs at all by any means. Nothing about her warrants it.
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So you're going by percentile? Why? You also rounded down the kill rates. She's at 56%, not 55% (and actually went up to 57% in the time since my last post).
It seems like you're really stretching as hard as you can to call her a bad killer. The statistics you've cited in this thread are either outdated or presented in a way that has a very clear bias. Being deliberately misleading isn't helping your case.
For the record, I don't think she needs any nerfs. I don't think she needs any buffs either, though.
Latency allowing for hits that shouldn't connect is a different discussion that falls outside of balance and is an issue that isn't exclusive to Huntress herself, but she is a pretty major case of this.
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I’m not rounding down lol I said 55%-56% but I just now seen the 57% one. But you are supposed to round down if it’s below the halfway point. So 57.21 = 57 and 57.75 = 58 for simplicity sake.
Also the stats change literally every hour so some of that numbers I posted aren’t accurate already. I just used the oldest ones I could find when comparing to the others.
No number stretching here, just a attempt at a factual reporting of the numbers that you yourself can see, I missed that one though so that’s my fault.
I never once said she is a bad killer. People always try to say I’m saying this which is insane. A killer doesn’t have to be bad to be considered for a buff. The simple fact is she is A tier against bad - average survivors and she is B to C Tier against great teams.
55, 56, 57, or 58; neither of these are at 60% Meanwhile we have 10 killers within 1% of the goal. If they make her 115% and 85% when holding a hatchet I’m betting she would be sitting right at 60%
After countless hours on her and at this point probably being one of the best at her. I say she needs to move faster and faster while holding hatchets to be viable at a high level. And people who have 10,000 plus hours agree.
That’s all I’m saying
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Let's agree to disagree, I guess.
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nah, keep her in please
a majority of huntresses ive faced had the accuracy of a potato
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Fair enough!
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You realize every time this happens, the Survivor dodged it right?
I mean the only time I got verified is when I played 2v8 with a friend far far away. I haven't had it happen as Killer that I can recall in the past 2 years. That tells me you are either in SEA worst server region, or you are admitting to frequent VPNing. I've been playing frequently against people VPNing against an ocean, so I know that it can be done for a 'lagvantage' with normal hits, let alone Huntress.
I don't have enough knowledge to confirm, but then wouldn't we move Ghosty's stalk back to client side, to prevent server checks for lean locations? Skillchecks are server checked, because it doesn't progress instantly unless you have a perfect connection. There are a lot of things that makes your claim appear false on its face, so I simply can't believe you on this part unless you have like a behind the scenes 'this is how we network games' video to source your claims from (or something similar).
As far as the pallet DH checks, yeah I highly doubt they work. properly. The first week that patch came out, it was working, then it seemed like they rolled the patch back, because I kept getting hits I shouldn't get as Killer, and DH animationed against Nurse and still getting downed. Either they rolled that back to 200+ latency, or they pretty much removed it entirely.
As far as replays are concerned, both UE4 and UE5 have it basekit, and we just upgraded to UE5 recently. I am 100% on board with replays for a bunch of reasons, like cheaters easier to report, learning how someone outplayed you, finding rat locations, etc. I sadly think we won't get replays though, since we probably would have had them much sooner if we were going to get them.
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you are admitting to frequent VPNing
lol, I play with 25-30ms ping :D
most survivors don't get even close to me, so I doubt it's on my side
but you said it happened to you, which mean it exists… So thanks for proving my point.0 -
I said it worked correctly in the week after Pallet/DH validation, then they rolled it back to 200+ latency (presumably) since it stopped working (outside of giga VPN level latency, like playing 2v8 across the world with a friend). Plus that only was pallet verification. You can still VPN lag hits with corners as ranged Killers, or with dash Killers and there is no verification for those more common lag scenarios.
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They don't even move to the side afterwards so the game didn't reconize it at all and they got straight up hit, so I don't care. Ether they syncronize it right so that it at least shows me that it didn't hit or they let it stay exactly like it is.
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