Making Tier 3 perks immediately unlock is the only way to fix the grind

I mean "years" is a little bit dramtic especially because you won't prestige every single one of them to p3 because most of them don't have anything that useful. I'd rather have a quicker bloodweb but still to level than instantly getting the perks, that would make the game outside of matches a little bit numb because you wouldn't have anything you'd farm for.

That being said they could make the bloodweb much quicker as excampel by letting me choose how many levels I want him to level for. They also have to skip or make the animation faster.

I leveled sable to prestige 75 and have hundreds of any item, do you really see that as anything exiting to get for your bloodpoints? I personally don't and I could probably play for it feels a year straight without ever buying something new, it's really not that interessting xD

That's why I said perks are more interesting, they are also usable for ages, but at least it really changes something to get them.

That's what I'm saying, though, I don't think what DBD has is a grind. I think it's a fairly neutral progression system that'll give you significant progress per day of playing matches.

I'm not saying a grind is necessary, I'm saying a progression system is necessary, and DBD has that for perks and for items/addons/offerings. I don't think it's appreciably hard to get what you want in any of those categories, unless you're hunting for an excess of specific addons (which I'm guilty of lol), I think you get those things at a fast enough rate that you don't really have to grind for them.

I was considering both sides. Even on killer, which is the side I play most, it doesn't really take that long to unlock absolutely everything, and most players don't really want everything. They just want a specific set of perks.

The way bloodpoint gain is, you get enough BP to prestige a character pretty damn frequently. It does require actively playing the game, but it's not really that much of a grind, it's relatively quick.

Getting tier 1 perks would be fine too, I'm not necessarily against it, but DBD really doesn't have that much of a grind outside of normal progression these days.

Why are we concerning ourselves with new players and beginners? Those players don't need to be concerned with unlocking everything. They'll be putting their attention on the character they're actually playing, and maybe one or two others if they came in with a recommendation from a friend to unlock specific perks. If we're talking about unlocking everything, or even unlocking a majority of things, we are inherently not talking about new players because that isn't a new player concern.

On top of that, the only BP booster you're considering is cakes, which is a little silly. Daily rituals, archive challenges, the free spots in the rift, consistent boosters to both BP gain directly or XP gain (which leads into the free spots in the rift), and a consistent amount of BP codes being shared around on a regular basis all contribute to the grind. Even if we were to concern ourselves with just what's in the game itself and that every player has access to, that only disqualifies the BP codes, everything else still counts.

Unlocking everything takes a couple months. That's about how long it took me after I started attempting it. Getting one character to prestige 3 doesn't really take all that long these days, unless you only play a single match on weekends or something, at which point any progression system is going to take you forever.

I do back up my arguments, that's why I'm asking you not to dissect sentence fragments.

But, since you asked: I'm not concerning myself with money cost here, that's not related to this conversation. For the record, I do consider DBD's monetisation pretty questionable, but it's not related to whether or not there's a grind associated with progression in-game.

If we're talking about beginner players, let's recalibrate to the beginner headspace. Someone who is new to the game and only has base stuff (+ maybe one or two DLCs they were interested in) unlocked is not going to be concerned with actually getting a substantial amount unlocked, because they don't even know what's good yet. What they'll do is they'll focus on the one character they play, and then after a little while, start looking at other characters to see if their perks are worthwhile.

At this point, we also have to recalibrate to what the relevant action is here: Getting that second character to prestige 1.

Getting a character to prestige 1 does represent a timesink, but not a huge one. If you're actually trying and using the available tools like daily rituals and archive challenges, you've got plenty of BP available to spend on characters to try stuff out. This is obviously an opinion, but I truly don't think this game has an appreciable grind unless you really do want to unlock everything on every character, and even that is manageable.

I think part of the problem here is something you alluded to in your other response where you talk about getting a "good build", but that's only going to be a new player's motivation if someone else gives them horrendously bad advice by telling them they need meta perks. A new player without that bad advice is just going to play with what they have available and that will be good enough for a newbie playing against other newbies. The actual progression for new players, done organically, isn't that bad: There's a fair amount of new player BP bonuses for things like finishing the tutorials, and the bloodweb is a fair bit cheaper and speedier than it used to be,

Money to skip grind is a horrendous system so we shouldn't want it for DBD. Thankfully, we don't need it, because there's not much need to skip levelling in this game; you can do it at a reasonable pace yourself.

As to the last part: Yeah, I didn't list any games because my argument has absolutely nothing to do with other games. I don't really care to list games with worse grind than DBD because that's irrelevant, I'm making my argument based on the game we're actually concerned with.

To be clear, THIS game doesn't have grind either, it just has a progression system. I used the word grind in that message because that's how it's being talked about, and perhaps I shouldn't have, but if we're defining grind as the need to sink tons of time into basic progression, this game doesn't have it.

I will provide an example here, but I want to be clear: My argument does not hinge on this example. My argument stands on its own without the need to compare to other games. This could be a helpful point of reference, though.

What this game has is mostly comparable to the other live service game I play the most of, Fortnite. Now, there is a key difference in that nothing you unlock in Fortnite has an impact on gameplay, but there's still a progression system in the form of the battle pass cosmetics. In that game, you do have to spend time playing to unlock those things, but it's extremely manageable for anyone that plays more than a single game once a week. I don't play hours and hours of either game every day, but I still manage to finish Fortnite's battle pass and I still managed to get every character I own to prestige 3 in a pretty reasonable timeframe.

Neither of these games are ones I would consider as having "a grind", because you can achieve basic progression in a very reasonable amount of time. Even the hypothetical longest goal - unlocking every perk on every character in DBD and finishing out the bonus rewards in Fortnite - can be done in the span of a couple months without extreme investment.

See, this is why I didn't want to start giving examples, the conversation would just become about those examples instead of the overall point.

DBD's basic progression and Fortnite's battle pass share a similarity: They're both very lenient and accessible, without requiring any meaningful grinding to progress in. That is the point of comparison and the only reason to even consider the other game to begin with.

You're also bringing up cost again, despite it being irrelevant.

I kinda agree, Ive been focusing entirely on leveling up my killers to all p3. Im a little over halfway there but I started around the stranger things dlc and played a few times a week for a while. I'm playing every day now but the game wasn't fun until I got to the point where I can have variety with perks and killers. I'd just like a way to make it faster but not just give all the perks upon purchase.

The grind is WAY better now compared to what it was years ago. They have really improved it. I spent 16 MILLION Bloodpoints just to get Stridor on Spirit with the old system. 16 million! And that's not even counting the BP I spent unlocking it from Nurse.

I was so frustrated that I haven’t played Spirit since.

If you are playing survivor, my advice is to main 1 survivor, and then get everyone else to prestige 1.

And then when a new character release, get them to prestige 1 and go back to your main and run the bloodweb a few times, you will have T3 perks in no time when you do it like that.

Its a bit harder on killers, i still try do it the same way, but for killers with perks that i know i want as tier 3 on a lot, i try to get them to prestige 3