The dredge buffs are a chance for Sadako
In the last ptb the devs changed dredge to be less noisy and detectable/hearable through walls, which is a very good change and brings me back to Sadako. She also has a directional lullaby that gives her away through walls and makes her stealth useless.
After they changed him in the PTB I hope they do the same for Sadako and make the lullaby no longer directional and remove it from the visual heart beat. I explain why: Before the introduction of the visible heartbeat most people would not notice this quiet sound of her lullaby (me included). Therefore she had it far easier to get to people and it felt like she had no lullaby, which she shouldn‘t, but I can understand that it is there for the atmosphere. Ever since it is in the game, survivors see what they normally wouldn‘t even notice by themselves. I really don‘t understand why we have it in the visual heart beat, when it is for closing the gap between people who are able to hear and those who can‘t, but even the people that can hear don‘t notice it! This means there was no gap to close, but what it did was make all people notice it.
The second thing that made me thinking were her TV auras, which make her bad in every aspect of her kit. Teleports are far too predictable even before the auras were introduced, because there is a sound that plays. Imagine survivors would see the aura of the locker in which dredge is or would jump out. It would make him so bad and this is the same with Sadako only that she has a lot less teleport points, so it is even worse. Everytime I play her I can‘t use the tp for anything than just seeing survivors hold w in the opposite direction. That was not the case in her first and second version. Then they also make survivors shut down all her teleport point for 70s for free, imagine this for dredge. Survivors would be able to lock lockers for 70 seconds all over again and again. This is ridiculous.
That are some of the many flaws of her redesigns in the reworks and why I will always prefer her first version, which wasn‘t too oppressive nor complicated for beginners and that version had the best tp in the game even with long cooldowns. I would say it would still be the best teleport power in the game if the devs gave her first version buffs.
The TV auras made it only frustrating to play against decent players, who already understood her and those who have no clue, still have no idea what to do.
Comments
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They've already poked sadako a few times. Like knight, I don't think they're interested in changing her further.
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I don‘t want them to change her further with any new ideas, I want them to revert the bad stuff and her mechanics back to her first version. That is not much work, because they have the work already done. With her mechanics I mainly mean passive condemned and one TV condemned. I will also do a more detailed post soon where I will go deaper in what exactly I want to get changed back, because there were also good things in her reworks like lock in condemned, the anti pallet stun and the number buffs they did.
I‘m still hoping for the best even tho it’s unlikely.
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I actually don't want 1.0 Sadako after the last two iterations.
I remember her TVs were a joke once you go against survivors who know to ignore them/could just Sprint Burst (or even regular run depending on where the TV was) away from the TV range and not get condemned. Even if they got condemned they could cleanse it quickly and in your face as well, much like the current one and you're basically forced to run STBFL to counter that. And not to mention, her lullaby would still give her away and even moreso with the visual terror radius. You were 100% a M1 killer with maybe a mori if you get a bad survivor.
I still think current Sadako is the best of both 1.0 and 2.0, and with the right adjustments is in the best spot.
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Sadako is better now for sure but she’s still a hot mess considering after the reworks.
Some decisions just seemed “off”
They’ll make it right
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I remember her TVs were a joke once you go against survivors who know to ignore them/could just Sprint Burst (or even regular run depending on where the TV was) away from the TV range and not get condemned
That can easily be fixed by just increasing the condemned range to 24-28m.
Even if they got condemned they could cleanse it quickly and in your face as well, much like the current one and you're basically forced to run STBFL to counter that. And not to mention, her lullaby would still give her away and even moreso with the visual terror radius. You were 100% a M1 killer with
maybea mori if you get a bad survivor.That is even worse in this version than it was back then and I said I wanted to keep the buffs she got, only the reworked parts should get changed back.
I still think current Sadako is the best of both 1.0 and 2.0, and with the right adjustments is in the best spot.
I don‘t think it‘s good, because 2.0 wasn‘t good and therefore I don‘t want the best version of both, which is worse than both versions.
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That can easily be fixed by just increasing the condemned range to 24-28m.
Except it still doesn't really. As I said before, even with condemned stacking up it was easy to remove and games usually ended by the time someone gets 5-6 stacks and could afford to ignore it until that point. And once you do get someone maxed, they just cleanse it in your face because they're all most likely healthy due to you being an M1 killer having to focus down 1 survivor at a time just to apply normal pressure. The only upside is your TVs are more active, but does that matter when they can get to a safe spot by the time you fully teleport?
3.0 here at least applies passive pressure through condemned by giving multiple stacks across the map, if survivors aren't touching tapes. We can argue about her TVs being turned off too easily here, but you have to agree condemned spread is a strong passive survivors have to respect. Especially with condemned lock on hook keeping that pressure up.
That is even worse in this version than it was back then and I said I wanted to keep the buffs she got, only the reworked parts should get changed back.
While this is a fair point to have, your wish is still a general nerf to her kit when she's still kinda weak. Let's pretend she has her original TV condemned/tape passive condemned with demanifest anti-stun and hook condemned lock. For even more benefit, let's restore her iridescent video tape addon to where it turned on TVs after a manifest hit.
You're teleporting around, nobody is touching TVs, you're getting one survivor who can loop decently and you're trying to stack condemned on them. The other 3 are freely doing gens without having to touch the TV near them because, why would they? That's less time on gens. Meanwhile, the one you're stacking condemned on can loop well and typically stays in the areas where you already used your TV and it's on cooldown for, let's be generous here and say 40 seconds in this scenario, at strong loops with god pallets. Eventually, either gens fly because you're too focused on trying to push them into your other TVs or you swap targets and that original one just does gens and ignores the condemned they have or actually does a tape and removes all your pressure you wasted on one person. Even if you have Iridescent Videotape, if the TV you teleported out of doesn't turn back on because the survivor you're tracking is holding good loops and stops you from utilizing it, survivors are still going to do gens by the time you get that condemned max. You could just focus on hooks, but then you'll still get no condemned pressure value and become a general M1 killer.
Meanwhile, 3.0 at least can apply some condemned across multiple survivors and combined with the threat of condemned lock, they may want to waste a few seconds on preventing more condemned buildup to take a tape, make their item unusable, and possibly make them think to go to a TV in an area they wouldn't have gone due to wanting to rush out gens.
Not to mention, Sadako players would return to slug tactics, regardless of Ring Drawing being changed to attempt to force condemned buildup.
I don‘t think it‘s good, because 2.0 wasn‘t good and therefore I don‘t want the best version of both, which is worse than both versions.
2.0 Was very, VERY good. Too good for most survivors, actually. Global condemned proved too much for them to handle, which is why we have 3.0 that has a combination of 1.0's TV range and 2.0's global by applying it to every active TV.
My only few complaints about 3.0 Sadako is TV interactions are too fast and her lullaby being directional, VCR being changed to what it does now with active TVs having auras, or really even existing in it's state. I have mained Sadako since her release and was the reason I got into DBD, so I do remember pretty clearly why her 1.0 was considered EXTREMELY weak and recognize the better aspects of her current version over the original.
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I really hope so
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Sorry for this long text.
The only upside is your TVs are more active, but does that matter when they can get to a safe spot by the time you fully teleport?
That does matter very much, like I said she had the best tp power back then and probably with todays buffs she would still have. I played her mainly, because her tp was so much fun and ever since the first rework TVs were shut down ALL the time.
cleanse it in your face because they're all most likely healthy due to you being an M1 killer having to focus down 1 survivor at a time just to apply normal pressure.
To cleanse in her face is easier in the current version than in any other version.
condemned stacking up it was easy to remove and games usually ended by the time someone gets 5-6 stacks and could afford to ignore it until that point.
That is not much different now, survivors now grab one tape and are completely save even saver than before. But I agree that the build up was slow back then, which I did not mind since getting someone condemned was something special back then and therefore I appreciated it and was happy when it happened. Now it‘s like ahh someone did not know what to do.
Condemned spread is not strong against any survivor that knows how to play against her in 3.0. Shure noobs ignore TVs, but everyone else will always turn off your TVs, so you get nothing from your power and the slowdown is not much, you loose more than you gain. The item holding thing is also not that significant.
My main thing is that I don‘t want survivors to touch my tapes, because it denies her whole power and there is nothing I can do. Being able to tp to a place where no one is is not really useful.
Especially with condemned lock on hook keeping that pressure up.
That is one of the changes I said myself is good, but I want it on the first version not this one. Same goes with the number buffs and anti pallet stun.
While this is a fair point to have, your wish is still a general nerf to her kit when she's still kinda weak. Let's pretend she has her original TV condemned/tape passive condemned with demanifest anti-stun and hook condemned lock. For even more benefit, let's restore her iridescent video tape addon to where it turned on TVs after a manifest hit.
Reading this made me almost 😭. I really loved playing as her. She was so so so much fun.
My playstile as her was switching targets constantly and preshuring the whole team almost at the time while also getting some fast hits from TVs. Her stealth and TVs were on a whole different level without the visual terror radius and TV auras, which allowed me to get relatively close to survivors before they ran away. Shure it was difficult sometimes, but that hasn‘t changed, except of all TVs being off all the time.
Meanwhile, 3.0 at least can apply some condemned across multiple survivors and combined with the threat of condemned lock, they may want to waste a few seconds on preventing more condemned buildup to take a tape, make their item unusable, and possibly make them think to go to a TV in an area they wouldn't have gone due to wanting to rush out gens.
Them doing this is not a benefit in my opinion. Currently she is only good if someone doesn‘t know how to play against her. Most people really underestimate how strong her tp actually was, especially with the longer speed boost, which doesn‘t do much on this version → TV auras, but her old version could used it in a strong way.
About 2.0: You misunderstood me and I wrote it poorly. I agree that she was very strong, but a lot less fun. Strength is not all when playing as and against. I generally do not like that they made her tp so much worse just for condemned to be stronger and currently neither of both is strong. In a strength list I would go 2.0→1.0→3.0
Overall I‘m not really arguing about the strength aspect of her 2.0 to her first version more about the fun factor, which definitely suffered and I noticed that she definitely got picked less after the first rework (because I played much in swf at that time).
Her first version got in my opinion a fair share of very good tp and condemned that was a thing that you had to earn.
1.0 was considered EXTREMELY weak
Most people did not play her for strength, the tp was emphasis on was one of the most fun abilities in the game. I saw her very often before the reworks, which shows me that not everyone thinks like that and that it is not the most important aspect. I think with today buffs and some more she would definitely be strong not blight level, but strong and stronger than she currently is
Not to mention, Sadako players would return to slug tactics, regardless of Ring Drawing being changed to attempt to force condemned buildup.
The thing about 2.0 is she was so much weaker if you didn’t play that one way that most people don‘t like (slug condemned). It was no longer possible to play her as chase killer like I wanted to, so I adapted and used ring drawing/sloppy for condemned and knock out/slugging as slowdown. You couldn‘t play her differently than that anymore without actively wanting to loose, that was completely diffrent in 1.0.
So imagine Sadako being reverted to her first version and keeping her buffs, but not the nerfs. This means iri tape back (huge), ring drawing with the slug deactivation (big), anti stun (good), longer speed boost (huge), less slowdown for switching (okey), shorter TV cooldowns (huge, huge, huge) this alone would have buffed condemned and her tp significantly and survivors would be forced to grab more tapes which would be a huge risk as well for them and the condemned lock in would also have been huge on 1.0. I probably forgot some of the other buffs. I would not keep the TV auras, the 1s tape insertion speed and change her lullaby.Some buffs I would give her as well: Maybe no TV cooldowns like what current iri tape does basekit, when flickering her red stain keeps being hidden, the range buff to 24-28m, her invisibility being more frequently and she is invisible for 1.3s while being demanifasted and after manifesting, longer flickering duration after manifesting (+2s) and her not getting slowed down when switching modes. Probably some other things as well, but that is what I have in mind currently. I’ll probably make another post, where I go more into detail for a revert.
One thing to consider is her addons are still designed to be mainly only good for her first version, those would get so much better just by reverting her. I would also buff her addons.
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I feel like most of this is nostalgia blindness.
Think about it, if her 1.0 was only fun because of the teleport, why even have condemned as a mechanic if it doesn't effect the outcome? My biggest argument for 3.0 is the fact condemned is racked up among multiple survivors even with TVs being easy to work around. 1.0, you could ignore condemned for the most part. Even with her old addons, condemned lock, etc it doesn't really matter when most of the time with 1.0 Sadako, survivors could ultimately ignore the TVs and were encouraged to due to passive condemned gain from tapes. A system to literally ignore their power.
I mean by all accounts, Dredge would be far better (especially with their upcoming buffs) if lockers were in better spots and outclass 1.0 Sadako completely, IF we're only talking about the teleport. If you strip Sadako back down to 1.0 mechanics, Dredge is still a far better pick because he has loop mindgames Sadako doesn't have with his kit.
I'm a firm believer that Condemned should have some consideration with Sadako, since her main drawback is being an M1 killer. Condemned and her TVs in general help with both slowdown and item prevention in this iteration. If anything, I'd argue to change some of her addons to give her a similar feeling to 1.0 instead of demoting what she had. Maybe even the other way around, if BHVR so wills it. I don't think 3.0 is perfect, don't get me wrong, I just think it's taking Sadako in the right direction to make condemned a threat that should be respected.
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I‘m not saying condemned should be a non factor in her kit and she should only have the tp. Condemned as a concept is very strong and it being not super easy to archive is fair in my opinion and there are other ways to make it more prominent than making her tp almost useless at the same time. You really underestimate what a shorter cooldown and a higher condemned range could have done. The shorter cooldown, which got almost halfed, means basically double the amount of condemned and the thing is condemned was never a non factor in her first version just not super oppressive and you had to grind for it. Maybe now even more people would grab tapes, because they are one trained to do so and two they are afraid of her coming it of the TV, which is a real threat now when you sit next to it on a gen thanks to the buffs she got. This means her having a better chase could give her better condemned as well. I did back then always turn off the TVs next to the gen, because I was scared of her and it could backfire. It was good that denying both the tp and condemned was a big risk. I got every 4th game someone condemned and I did only tp much, which means people who did play her for condemned kills could archive them relatively frequently.
At this point I would even accept if they made current iri tape one TV condemned, TVs don‘t turn off and survivors can‘t turn them off or tapes give passive condemned. Like that they could also test how much people would want this version back. The TV auras should generally speaking get removed.
If they would revert her they should also give her an all TV condemned addon or global condemned one.
Sadako‘s condemned part of her power is not the only part of her power. She got basically three. Condemned, tp and flicker/stealth. So saying she has only to be good at condemned is really sad, because I have nothing against how people wana play her, but then please let me also play her like I want to, which is sadly not really possible because of the grab tape encouragement.I will probably switch to drdege when he gets buffed.
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I'm not saying condemned is the only thing that needs to be good, I'm saying condemned was notably worthless in 1.0. When I played back then, the majority of my wins was due to VCR/Deadman's Switch because they ignored TVs, and the flicker for mindgames, though that only goes so far when survivors start knowing how Sadako moves during flicker (especially right now with it being bugged)
Actually if we're talking about her three powers being good across the board, 3.0 is a good example of all 3 being good. Condemned racks up at a decent pace if you time things right, her teleport is still good because even if you can't teleport on top of someone you can still get closer with a different TV, and if flicker gets it's bug fixed it would be in a good spot.
But I will say, it would be nice if Iridescent Tape got changed to something like 1.0 but a little better. Something like 1.5 stacks per teleport, one TV adds condemned, and even throw in a bonus of TVs only turn off for 50 or so seconds when condemned is applied. I'll always promote changing the current Iri Videotape.
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I don‘t think condemned is good in this version it is basically only slowdown and not even much slowdown. I would prefer having condemned actually as alternative killing mechanic, which should not be too easy to archive, so it still feels rewarding.
Her stealth is bad because of her lullaby +vidusl heart beat, which was definitely better without the visual heartbeat. TVs for chasing, mindgames etc are worthless, because of TV auras 90% of the time. When those things would be fixed, I would at least not mind it as much while still wanting the old version.
even if you can't teleport on top of someone you can still get closer with a different
That is one of the more important things of the character in the movie as well. She did not come through the door from somewhere to kill, she came through a TV next to them. It also does a lot for the atmosphere of survivors. Maybe a change to the current version would be that when survivors grab tapes the condemned spread of this TV goes on cooldown, but you can still teleport there.
I really hope they fix the flicker bug soon, but probably it will stay bugged until she gets changed again even tho they said; they buff the flicker while it still is a nerf.
Just getting a nerfed version of her first iri tape would also be cool, where we get the sound back and it only activates 2 TVs instead of four again. They probably don‘t want to give her two versions probably.
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I mean, it kinda is more than just slowdown too. It's a side objective survivors have to respect or else they get Mori'd. It's not something that can be super forced as well, like older versions. You can also still make builds around condemned, especially if you're good at tracking buildup for condemned locking on hooks. I typically get a mori or two every other game as of right now due to it, and I don't really focus much on condemned unless I choose to apply pressure with it.
That is one of the more important things of the character in the movie as well. She did not come through the door from somewhere to kill, she came through a TV next to them. It also does a lot for the atmosphere of survivors. Maybe a change to the current version would be that when survivors grab tapes the condemned spread of this TV goes on cooldown, but you can still teleport there.
We also can't really compare DBD directly to the source material either. I mean, Nemesis is already a good example of this. I also remember Sadako appearing in different spots in the original as well, one scene in particular that I remember was her standing behind Reiko in the reflection of the TV when it was turned off, something you can easily miss on your first watch of it. I actually run Insidious because of that, even though it's not exactly the same effect.
However, I do think your idea is smart there to have Sadako be able to teleport to inactive TVs, even if they don't apply condemned. The system is there too, just make yellow TVs not apply condemned to show they've been turned off. Maybe even increase the time it takes to teleport another second to compensate? I'm not sure.
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the truth is that sadako isn't m1 killer completely. She has passive phasing. It is just like… condemn, it is very underwhelming. It was schedule to be buffed from 0.8 to 1 second but it is instead bugged to be 0.77 seconds. They haven't fix the bug. her directional lullaby is direct reference to another killer who also got complained fair amount. The Spirit. They would change spirit first before ever changing Sadako. Spirit has long history for this invisibility without feedback.
Dredge does not have invisibility so him having directional lullaby in nightfall made 0 sense. that is why he got changed. he is suppose undetectable and this sound made him like PTB ghostface.
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What gets me is how it makes sense that her lullaby is a direct comparison to Spirit's phasing, but not compared to another killer that does have a better comparison: Wraith. They have a very similar structure to their powers.
Wraith's cloak has no lullaby despite him making noise and he takes time to uncloak, while getting a small speed burst for it. Sadako has the upper hand since she doesn't slow down as much when she manifests, but she has two downsides: Directional lullaby and the fact survivors can see her phasing in and out on approach unless there's walls. Though, I'm not sure removing lullaby entirely is a good idea, considering she DOES move quite quickly while manifesting and it doesn't take long to manifest, but it definitely shouldn't be directional all things considered.
As far as her not being an M1 completely, I consider she is on the grounds you need to do the normal M1 games to get a down regardless of phasing. I see phasing as just an addition to her mindgames, less than Dredge's remnant since you can quickly teleport to it during a loop, therefore is a M2 power that is used for more than mindgames. At least, that's how I interpret it.
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wraith doesn't remove information in the chase. He has invisibility but it is not really invisibility. It is useless invisibility. The Lullaby is there to defeat the purpose of being invisible at loops for Sadako so that survivor can more easily identify her exact position during the glitching. It just so happens to also make her undetectable outside of chase for ambushing survivors worse but this isn't that bad for her considering that her entire gameplay is suppose to be using television.
But then you can look at the tape problem with turning off all televisions and that where he gets the 3.0 rework problems. to be fair, 2.0 Sadako also had this problem but at least she had counter-play in being able to break tapes and build her condemn. this one has no counter-play and is just forced to be m1 killer no redeeming qualities assuming survivor plays correctly on most outdoor maps.
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However, I do think your idea is smart there to have Sadako be able to teleport to inactive TVs, even if they don't apply condemned. The system is there too, just make yellow TVs not apply condemned to show they've been turned off. Maybe even increase the time it takes to teleport another second to compensate? I'm not sure.
I don‘t think there should be an increase in the time the tp takes since tapes are no longer for turning off TVs, in particular more for anti condemned. Therefore they should only do the one thing they are meant for, otherwise there should be a drawback for turning them off, which is not really possible to do in this version, because she would be busted with real drawbacks upon holding tapes.
I would consider her phasing still an m1 like ChaosWam.
I don‘t want them to remove the lullaby completely only from the visual heartbeat since it‘s very silent and not very noticeable if you don‘t focus on it. It being directional makes no sense since she can’t just instantly appear out of nowhere and attack instantly like spirit and she is only invisible for a short moment like spirits passive phasing when not using the power, but there spirit does not have a lullaby too. I would say her phasing is like spirits passive phasing and wraith in the way of you have to get out of power first.
It was schedule to be buffed from 0.8 to 1 second but it is instead bugged to be 0.77 seconds.
It was 1s before the buff and they wanted it to buff it to 1,2s. In the end we got 0,23s less than before the „buff“ and 0,43s less than supposed.
Dredge does not have invisibility so him having directional lullaby in nightfall made 0 sense. that is why he got changed. he is suppose undetectable and this sound made him like PTB ghostface.
While I agree, playing against him is harder in nightfall than keeping track of Sadako while she is invisible, because she constantly flickers in and out. Then she aslo becomes visible while manifesting. I think her lullaby not being in the visual heartbeat would be a first good step.
That is what always was my complain about her reworks. You can‘t use her tp anymore, because all the TVs are deactivated, which was already bad in 2.0 especially with the cooldown, but in 3.0 they added those stupid TV auras on top, that make her TVs completely useless.
I never really cared wether it was local or global condemned, but fact is that we will never get a good tp back to her with versions that got the focus only on condemned and which force survivors to grab tapes and to do the counterplay all the time.
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I don‘t want them to remove the lullaby completely only from the visual heartbeat since it‘s very silent and not very noticeable if you don‘t focus on it.
The visual heartbeat is for survivor that are deaf. it is noticeable enough for me, aka experience player to know she is precisely in the area. It is balanced around experience players… but there is many survivor that inexperienced/do not use tools at hand so visual heartbeat looks like huge buff.
there should be a drawback for turning them off, which is not really possible to do in this version, because she would be busted with real drawbacks upon holding tapes.
This precise sentence explains why her 2.0 rework changed into this 3.0 rework. No she was not be busted. She'd be decent where she was prior said change.
It was 1s before the buff and they wanted it to buff it to 1,2s. In the end we got 0,23s less than before the „buff“ and 0,43s less than supposed.
My bad. this is error on my part. i know they changed by 0.2 but for some reason, i thought it was shorter.
It being directional makes no sense since she can’t just instantly appear out of nowhere and attack instantly like spirit and she is only invisible for a short moment like spirits passive phasing when not using the power, but there spirit does not have a lullaby too. I would say her phasing is like spirits passive phasing and wraith in the way of you have to get out of power first.
If this chase power was supposedly buffed, the uncloaking would function like wraith's lunge except instead of going faster, She'd be near completely invisible. It is just that her chase power is completely under-tuned and dysfunctional to the core. Just like her current condemn mechanic.
Something that hit me and i didn't notice this for longest time but the actual invisibility, flickering when your demanifest mode is flipped. The 1 second duration invisibility which is suppose to be 1.25 second is suppose to be her uncloak invisibility and the flickering is suppose to be passive phasing. Now i don't know if this was done on purpose or just an error in code implementation but i am pretty sure that is how chase power is suppose to work.
So all they need to do to make chase power good is just flip all these numbers. Currently, a Sadako player figured out that you cannot stagger your invisibility with uncloak invisibility. it actually resets the invisible flicker timer. this does have some … implication in resetting the phase walk timer but i don't think it is useful in most practical loops. they would also have to flip all her add-on functionality. Her directional lullaby for invisibility is there to not make her spirit 2.0 If her chase is ever rework/buffed to function properly.
That is what always was my complain about her reworks. You can‘t use her tp anymore, because all the TVs are deactivated, which was already bad in 2.0 especially with the cooldown, but in 3.0 they added those stupid TV auras on top, that make her TVs completely useless.
I never really cared wether it was local or global condemned, but fact is that we will never get a good tp back to her with versions that got the focus only on condemned and which force survivors to grab tapes and to do the counterplay all the time.
1.0 Sadako at base-kit was same. I have to remind you that these televisions had 100 SECOND cooldown for being used. there is reason why every Sadako ran Iri-tape for this 100 second cooldown. coming into 2.0 Sadako, they did reduce her TV cooldown to 45 seconds however her mobility was still hampered. It was more usable then old 1.0 base-kit but it still had limitations.
So in every iteration, it has never been a free unlimited teleport at base-kit. Iri tape was closest that she had for free unlimited teleporting until the add-on was nerfed in 3.0.
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Sadako shouldn't have a lullaby.
I said what I said. No other Stealth Killer has this. Why does she have it? She has very weak stealth to begin with, why does she need this?2 -
It is only for the atmosphere, nothing else. She had it in the movies and therefore now. At the very least they should make it like dredge‘s lullaby is, where it firstly doesn‘t trigger the visual heart beat and secondly that they remove it being directional. I actually think the worst part of it is that it is in the visual heart beat shown.
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That's actually exactly what I mean by saying she should have no lullaby, it should be a sound but not an actual TR or Lullaby effect.
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Yep, hopefully. What do you think about the TV auras, which I think make her very bad?
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I don't think the auras of her TVs are the issue. I think the issue is that the tapes are relatively easy to take with no consequences.
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Sadako is almost completely silent when undetectable. Removing her lullaby would allow her to sneak up on anyone super easily. Basically tier 1 Myers without the drawback of slower 4.2 m/s speed and shorter lunge. So no, the lullaby needs to stay.
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While I didn‘t suggest removing it completely, I think it wouldn‘t make it unfair, because she can‘t strack instantly like every other killer, which is a big draw back. I suggested/requested it getting removed from the visual heartbeat since you also agree with me that it is almost not noticeable, which means there is no real disadvantage for deaf people. And it shouldn‘t be directional both of those defeat the purpose of a stealth ability.
TV auras are terrible, because you can‘t use your tp for getting close to survivors and in chases. They will always see where you tp to and hold w in the opposite direction, which renders this ability useless. You cancompare her tps from before the reworks and afterwards, that’s a huge difference.
I agree that tapes are too free, but I don‘t think you can give them any real threat without making her condemned too strong while her tp stays bad.
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I literally am NOT agreeing with you. What I'm saying is that Sadako herself is very quiet. Without visual terror radius her lullaby is quiet as well. Poor audio mixing resulting in something that even people who can hear can barely notice, is only even more of a reason to keep the lullaby in visual terror radius, when deaf people are considered.
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Basically you call a useless ability good. A stealth ability is supposed to not get noticed easily. Otherwise we can just remove it already. What else is a stealth ability then even supposed to do?
And how do you argue about dredge then, he had a very loud lullaby that never was in the visual heartbeat and nobody complained, but deaf people actually had a disadvantage to normal people there while for Sadako deaf and most not deaf people would not notice it without it.
The purpose of the visual heartbeat is to make it even between deaf and not deaf people, but here they have no disadvantage. It only makes Sadako stealth terrible. Then again why doesn‘t it show nemesis super loud footsteps up in the visual heartbeat when he is undetectable.
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First of all, Dredge never had a lullaby. He was just very loud, which thankfully got fixed in the ptb, by making him much quieter. Here is a link to all the killers with lullabies
Her stealth is fine enough, imo. I swear some Sadako mains want to 4k every time, and if they can't do that, then the killer is weak and needs to be omega buffed. You might know she's in the 24 meters vicinity of you because of the visual terror radius, but that's about it. She could be to your left, right, behind you, about to drop down from the second floor, and you have less than 6 seconds to figure it out before she manifests and gets an easy hit.
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I meant with dredge, that his sounds are like a lullaby and a lot louder than sadakos lullaby. Therefore it makes more sense (before they make it more silent in the next patch,) that he got a lullaby than Sadako.
I don‘t wana 4K every match, but it is frustrating that everyone already runs before I came even anywhere close to them. A stealth ability is supposed to make you less noticeable and the visual heart beat defeats the whole purpose of the undetectable.
If you read the long textes above, many would say I want her to get nerfed, when I say „I want her first version back“. I just want back what they took away from her with the reworks. This killer is honestly if survivors know what to do super limited and frustrating to play.
In her first version she had no TV auras, there was no visual heart beat, TVs were not always turned off and she was fair, but a lot more fun and less limited.
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The visual heartbeat is for survivor that are deaf. it is noticeable enough for me, aka experience player to know she is precisely in the area. It is balanced around experience players… but there is many survivor that inexperienced/do not use tools at hand so visual heartbeat looks like huge buff.
I know, but it isn‘t really noticeable for most players that aren‘t deaf. It‘s as loud as Myers breathing and that is not in the visual heart beat either. Even dredges sounds were more worthy to become a lullaby than sadako’s lullaby, but there it would actually make sense to be one, because it is very loud (before the next patch changes it). The lullaby being in the visual heart beat completely defeats the purpose of her undetectable and really only serves the purpose to make her stealth specifically terrible.
This precise sentence explains why her 2.0 rework changed into this 3.0 rework. No she was not be busted. She'd be decent where she was prior said change
Current condemned build up speed is a lot stronger than on 2.0, but turning it off is free. 2.0 still had the cooldown, which limited it very much. Now maybe add breaking tapes or old passive condemned back onto it and survivors loose whatever they do. Shure we could give tapes minor draw back like removing TV auras and her lullaby becoming permanent, but this wouldn‘t change anything.
It would be extremely unfun for survivors like she was in 2.0. Shure she was not busted there but very unfun.
If this chase power was supposedly buffed, the uncloaking would function like wraith's lunge except instead of going faster, She'd be near completely invisible. It is just that her chase power is completely under-tuned and dysfunctional to the core. Just like her current condemn mechanic.
Agree and like the idea. I would even be happy if she could just vault windows and break pallets while being invisible instead of becoming visible the moment you do those and her not getting slowed down when manifesting and demanifesting.
Something that hit me and i didn't notice this for longest time but the actual invisibility, flickering when your demanifest mode is flipped. The 1 second duration invisibility which is suppose to be 1.25 second is suppose to be her uncloak invisibility and the flickering is suppose to be passive phasing. Now i don't know if this was done on purpose or just an error in code implementation but i am pretty sure that is how chase power is suppose to work.
So all they need to do to make chase power good is just flip all these numbers. Currently, a Sadako player figured out that you cannot stagger your invisibility with uncloak invisibility. it actually resets the invisible flicker timer. this does have some … implication in resetting the phase walk timer but i don't think it is useful in most practical loops. they would also have to flip all her add-on functionality. Her directional lullaby for invisibility is there to not make her spirit 2.0 If her chase is ever rework/buffed to function properly.
I struggle to understand it honestly, maybe you could explain it again a bit easier.
1.0 Sadako at base-kit was same. I have to remind you that these televisions had 100 SECOND cooldown for being used. there is reason why every Sadako ran Iri-tape for this 100 second cooldown. coming into 2.0 Sadako, they did reduce her TV cooldown to 45 seconds however her mobility was still hampered. It was more usable then old 1.0 base-kit but it still had limitations.
The coldown was too long shure, but you could play around it and you could at least use it once before it was on cooldown and it wasn‘t too frustrating with all the stuff you had to shorten it. Now we have them like always on cooldown without using them once before and when they are not turned off, there is probably no one there.
So in every iteration, it has never been a free unlimited teleport at base-kit. Iri tape was closest that she had for free unlimited teleporting until the add-on was nerfed in 3.0.
Yes, but her old mechanic with passive condemned and no TV auras allowed the most you could get even with long cooldowns.
Her iri tape was a great addon and very creative, I miss it so much. It made her so good in every way.
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the atmosphere is her terror radius. every killer's atmosphere is their terror radius.
Current condemned build up speed is a lot stronger than on 2.0
Because they removed skill component the killer. the tapes. I don't really agree. 2.0 condemn was extremely fast and very potent.
I struggle to understand it honestly, maybe you could explain it again a bit easier.
When you press m2, If you are invisible, you become visible and the timer to flicker is reset. you cannot stagger your passive invisibility with de-cloak invisibility. if you could and the mechanic wasn't bugged, you could chain her 1.25 second invisibility with 0.75 second invisibility with old newspaper+Reiko's watch to be 2 second total invisibility.
All i am saying is that if you were to make her current her post flicker mechanic after exiting cloak and flip it with passive invisibility and then take her current passive invisibility which is currently bugged and put it on her M2 after decloaking, Sadako has potencial to be very potent M1 killer.
She'd be near invisible through out entire loop. Like make no mistake, her ability has the capacity to be a very potent anti-loop tool. The mechanic simply is not tuned correctly. Bvhr is skeptical in buffing this mechanic because 1.0 spirit was considered unfun by many players.
While I didn‘t suggest removing it completely, I think it wouldn‘t make it unfair, because she can‘t strack instantly like every other killer, which is a big draw back. I suggested/requested it getting removed from the visual heartbeat since you also agree with me that it is almost not noticeable, which means there is no real disadvantage for deaf people. And it shouldn‘t be directional both of those defeat the purpose of a stealth ability.
They do not need to change anything in regards to how mechanic works. Simply adjusting the numbers. For example instead of having a non-standard 24 meter radius, They can tune it to be 12 meters. In this way, you'll still hear screeching at loops but you will not be able to notice the mechanic outside of chase. Even survivor with visual TR will get the terror radius bubble far too late in many cases to make any move.
I do not see Sadako anywhere on the road map. As result i do not see any upcoming changes.
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Shes hardly from completely silent. She makes a very loud static noise you can hear through walls. Sneaking up on people in general with her is very difficult and it defeats the purpose of having a stealth ability. Its sad when you have to resort to using undetectable perks/addons because your actual ability cant be relied on.
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The static noise is her lullaby audio, I never said she's completely silent, just that her audio can be subtle.
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the atmosphere is her terror radius. every killer's atmosphere is their terror radius.
In this case behavior thinks otherwise, because they would not have added one then.
When you press m2, If you are invisible, you become visible and the timer to flicker is reset.
I want that to work.
you cannot stagger your passive invisibility with de-cloak invisibility. if you could and the mechanic wasn't bugged, you could chain her 1.25 second invisibility with 0.75 second invisibility with old newspaper+Reiko's watch to be 2 second total invisibility. All i am saying is that if you were to make her current her post flicker mechanic after exiting cloak and flip it with passive invisibility and then take her current passive invisibility which is currently bugged and put it on her M2 after decloaking, Sadako has potencial to be very potent M1 killer. She'd be near invisible through out entire loop. Like make no mistake, her ability has the capacity to be a very potent anti-loop tool. The mechanic simply is not tuned correctly. Bvhr is skeptical in buffing this mechanic because 1.0 spirit was considered unfun by many players.
I would like that, but 2s could be too much (l don‘t know tho). Behavior will probably do nothing in that regard. Sadako would probably be a lot different recived than spirit was since she has a lot shorter invisibility, no speed boost and needs a longer time to get out of power first (which should be shorter honestly) and it is basically spirits passive phasing, which no one ever complained about.
They do not need to change anything in regards to how mechanic works. Simply adjusting the numbers. For example instead of having a non-standard 24 meter radius, They can tune it to be
12 meters.In this way, you'll still hear screeching at loops but you will not be able to notice the mechanic outside of chase. Even survivor with visual TR will get the terror radius bubble far too late in many cases to make any move.That would be another easy way of doing it, would love if they did that.
I do not see Sadako anywhere on the road map. As result i do not see any upcoming changes.
Maybe if we keep posting something, we can change the devs mind to at least give her some small help.
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Mechawarrior3 has been making posts for awhile now. nothing has really connected.
i would like that, but 2s could be too much (l don‘t know tho). Behavior will probably do nothing in that regard. Sadako would probably be a lot different recived than spirit was since she has a lot shorter invisibility, no speed boost and needs a longer time to get out of power first (which should be shorter honestly) and it is basically spirits passive phasing, which no one ever complained about.
I am not sure how good chase power is but its current iteration is completely irrelevant. it is pre-buffed pig dash. it is an ineffect mechanic.
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I feel like certain people in this conversation don't understand how you can use a terror radius or lack of one, and sound cues, to mess with players while playing Stealth Killers. That's a key aspect of basically every stealth Killer. They lowered Dredge's volume to fix its stealth. Ghostface has an addon for his TR based on crouching and part of decent Ghostie play is knowing when to cancel shroud and mess with people using your TR versus hiding it. Chucky is meant to confuse with the footstep sounds and his giggling, Pig is meant to use her crouching to hide her terror radius. Even Myers has addons to make him stealthier and many Myers players run perks like Monitor and Abuse for this reason. Sadako's lullaby and sound design is the same.
Controlling what the Survivors hear with your TR is like learning how to hide your Red Stain - part of learning the Killer's kit and understanding Killer in general.
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The last time it took like 6 months for them to do something. Might take a while again. If we are unlucky nothing happens.
I am not sure how good chase power is but its current iteration is completely irrelevant. it is pre-buffed pig dash. it is an ineffect mechanic.
It would probably in a ok state if it wasn‘t bugged since….
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