Do you think some m1 killers should be 4,7m/s
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We heard nothing but incessant complaining for months that permanent move speed completely breaks the game.
So no.
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No?
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No, movement speed is a touchy thing to balance.
Plus it'd mean that the killer has a bad power to compensate, which would be lame.
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As part of a power with limited uptime, sure.
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Absolutely not.
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i mean, let's face it, ghostface will never be as good as blight. So Having a highest base m/s for weak killers might be good play. I think Myer's tier 3 and GF could easily be 4.7 m/s.
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I would rather have those two killers buffed in more creative ways.
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Legion should
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Myers Tier 3 maybe.
Ghostface for 10-15 seconds after marking a survivor maybe.
But with more adjustments elsewhere being necessary, such as a nerf or limitation to Tombstone add ons.
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The way the game is laid out is not meant for anything to be slightly faster than it already is, imo. It's why haste is so good.
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yes! if their power restrictions are to the level of irl shoe hag.
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Maybe, if BHVR allowed killer stats to be more varied as if they were an OW character or something. A killer at 4.7 would maybe need 2 hits to injure, and or have less reach or something but killers in this game are mostly standardized so I don't see it ever happening.
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only trapper and freddy and noone else. though movement speed shouldn't be the way to buff killers (or anything).
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A Hex Perk that makes you 5% faster would be dope. Hex: Bloodhunt
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Thanks for all the comments.
I thought it could have been a easy way to make some killers better since many people always say we should make maps relatively weak because of m1 killers.
Overall I would prefer having other buffs to those killers, but I think it would be cool for Myers in Tier 3 or ghost Face in his power and some others.
Just wanted to know how people would react to it, so thx.
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singularity is effectively 4.712, Skull Merchant too and so on.
They rarely chase people while having default movement speed and to get they speed they have to work for it and play around their powers' restrictions.
If we do get 4.7 or whatever higher than normal default speed killer, their power will most definitely put some huge limits on them.
Like making the killer effectively blind and having trouble finding survivors or keeping track of them in chase or having shorter/no lunger, etc.
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I forgot those two, but skull merchant doesn‘t really do anything for the haste. She gets it for free by survivors running into her drowns.
Some weak killers could get this speed increase, so being weak would be a restriction or not?
Ghost Face could have it when in power and Myers in Tier 3, but both tombstone addons would remove that.
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My candidate for 4.7 would be this long list of killers.
-Trapper
-Hag
-Skull merchant(I would remove haste tracking from her kit)
-Xenomorph in Crawler mode
-Demogorgon
-Dredge
-Twins
-Ghostface
-Legion
-Freddy
-Doctor(Occurs when a survivor is being chased in madness 3)
-Myer's(Tier 3)You could probably put them all 4.7 m/s and they'd still just be worse then Blight and Nurse, Chucky etc.
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Still worse at top MMR maybe.
Completely OP at lower skill levels.
Remember Trapper overperforms at low MMR, that's why they won't buff him.
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The only killer who needs a buff is legion
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Oh, so it is fine for Leatherface, Dredge etc. to get buffs and over-perform but it is not fine for trapper. Got it.
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Thanks but you can have the words you put in my mouth back.
Lots of killers need buffs.
A permanent 2.5% movement speed increase (basically permanent Made For This) is not it.
Remember how Made For This broke the game?
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Tier 3 Myers could be 4.7. No issue.
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As a Ghosty main (and a Myers aficionado), he doesn't need it. He needs players willing to learn and 'git gud'. Ghosty's biggest weakness is playing as an M1 Killer, rather than a macro M2 Killer. The strength of Ghosty is having an on-demand 1-hit, be it Exposed, or Undetectable against injured. Playing him like an M1 Killer is the biggest noob trap because it seems like how you are supposed to play him, which results in people crouch+M2+17m camping hooks, which does get results (like old Bubba facecamping when people refuse to pump gens).
Ghosty spends time getting multiple people stalked, so that he can instadown a would-be rescuer and force another person off a gen or risk a 2nd stage for free (getting that natural slowdown or accelerating the game to a close on both ends). If they greed and gen b4 fren (either by hooks or heals), then he still has instadowns ready. Also with stealth Killer noises being the only tell, you can get the 1-hit before they reach a window/pallet (barring Sprint Burst) if you know how to approach (and aren't playing garbage anti-stealth maps like Autohaven/Macmillan's which don't have enough LOS blockers in good spots).
Heck, Ghosty's crouch is even good enough anti-loop as long as you are playing on a real map (not Autohaven), since you can crouch to hide behind the tall walls, and M2 to remove red stain. Basically sweatlords love Autohaven, and they think Ghosty sucks since Autohaven is Ghosty's worst realm (even worse than Badham). To be clear, I don't think that map variety is a problem, I think that it is actually good for the game. I just find it silly when people complain about RPD so they can't use Huntress or Billy as well, while Ghosty and Myers find Autohaven/Macmillan equally (or even more) unplayable.
Also the main thing that makes most Killers unable to compete is raw map mobility. If there was a 5-8s PacMan styled edgemap teleport to the other side of the map as a basekit feature, I think that would help most M1 Killers far more. I personally would give it a sound effect, but also allow the Killer to fake it and make the sound without TPing, that way stealth approaches against the closest people can still work post visible hook/genkick/down.
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a lot of m1 killer already have speed boosts because m1 chasing is unnaturally slow against a experience looper. it is called bloodlust 1. I am just saying that you might as well give these killer super blood lust 1 and they still wouldn't outperform the superior mechanic chase killers.
you can say whatever you want but ghostface is weaker than dozens of killers in the game. This game is about time efficiency. Map mobility is only one of several ways to gain time efficiency as killer. Not every killer has to gain time efficiency through same means.
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Thanks for making exactly my point, Ghosty is time efficient as a Macro M2 Killer.
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He is macro inefficient because his marking is time-sink. He spends time walking around marking unsuspecting survivors in a game that realistic moves at mach 12 speed.
What GF achieves in undetectable instant downs is what Leatherface achieves with near 0 preparation and few undetectable perks .
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The time sink is removing a chase. As long as the time to set up a Marked down is less than a chase (or downed an injured Surv by denying a chase from proper stealth), then you played Macro M2 Ghosty correctly.
I'm sure you could do that as Bubba, but then you would be making my point for me once again. Someone who has specialized in playing the game the 'right' way with their kit, can accomplish wins easily.
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Consider that all the maps and for 7 years bHVR has balanced loops around 4,6m/s with a few exceptions in powers and perks.
Why should we make exceptions the norm?1 -
I think those who you could do easily and it would make sense in their power are ghost face, Myers an xeno.
The killers I wish had it are pig, trapper, doctor, GF and Myers. Trapper could probably get better buffs to his power instead of this. Same with doctor and pig.
Twins, dredge, demo and hag are all killers, who are already strong enough in my opinion, so they don‘t really need it. In dredges case after the update.
Skull merchant is too unfun and I do not like the haste she got already, but it would be at least less than she currently has.
For Freddy I would wait how his rework turns out, which I think will be in the next midchapter.
On legion I‘m mixed. The first injure is always free and making the down easier would probably make him too …
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Yes, but many maps get nerfed, because of weaker killers while the stronger ones don‘t need it easilier. That is why I asked it. This could balance it a bit out, don‘t you think?
The funny thing is we already have skull merchant with free and almost permanent high haste (bad example I know) and we will get Dracula, who will have 4.8 in his dog form while under effects of the orbs.
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Should we not then encourage the buffing of Killers with weak powers, instead of encouraging bHVR to redo loop balance by changing default killer speed?
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Yes, but I‘m afraid they give us more haddonfields, which is a terrible map now. I already thought they overnerfed maps in their former reworks and those weren‘t that bad. I would gladly take the 4.7m/s speed instead of more bad map reworks and maps also can be bigger when killers, who struggle with big maps, can patrol easier. I like bigger maps more.
I edited my post above later on: What do you think about skull merchant and the new Dractula‘s dog then. Those are also faster than 4,6 m/s. Skull merchant by a lot basekit.
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Nah. Skull Merchant basically already gets that and it's one of the biggest problems with her kit. I think conditional haste like Singularity's and Knight's is alright if there's a really good reason to have it (which there is for those 2 killers) but it's not something that should be active for a majority of the match (or even half the match). There are much better ways to buff the weaker killers that don't involve increasing their base speed.
Waterlogged Shoe Hag only gets a pass because it's an iri addon that makes her power significantly worse (ie. it comes with a major drawback).
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I agree with the 9% speed increase is too much and big problem with skull merchant.
What do you think about ghost face/xeno in power and Myers in tier 3 (not with tombstone). Those are some where it would be limited and it would make sense and it would only be 2.5%.
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I would not agree with Xeno and Ghostface getting that. You can already pull off some pretty sneaky mindgames with crouching at loops as GF that a lot of killers can't do and in general you shouldn't really be chasing a whole lot with him anyway, it's not the best way to use his power. Xeno in power is already strong as it is.
Myers definitely needs some attention but I feel like there are more interesting ways they could buff him than just handing him MFT in tier 3. Though I do agree that tier 3 should be more threatening and/or could use something extra (he also needs his early game to be less of a hindrance, such as by reducing the stalk needed to get out of tier 1 and making tier 1 speed 4.4m/s instead of 4.2).
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Yeah, buffing base stats instead of their powers just incentivizes playing without using your power, which isnt a good mechanic. Buffing power instead of base stats increases interaction, skill ceiling, diversity and better overall
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Hard agree with 4.4 Myers T1. If Scratched Mirror is oppressive at 4.4, they can slowly test hindered with it down to 4.35/4.3/4.25 or all the way back down to 4.2 if need be.
Also agreed with alternative stalk amounts per tier. They could have T1→T2 take 1 Evil point (from 5), and the first T2→T3 take 9 Evil points (from 5, but still 10 total for the first T1→T3).
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I agree xeno is strong enough, but it would make sense since he is on all 4 and can brought out of power very fast by turrets.
For ghost face I think it would just be cool.
Agree with what you said about Myers, but the speed would be a very cool thing. It would actually give him a level up instead of just reaching the same speed most killers already have from the start. My friends as I started always said; „He is the fastest killer“ (I don‘t know why), then it would actually be true.
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I am also a Ghostface Main and I agree with basically all of this. He's fine and not in need of any real big buffs right now.
However I think he really should have some more value on Marking, and maybe some work needs to be done on the Reveal mechanic, it can be slightly janky.0 -
Yeah, personally my favorite add-ons are the ones where you get something for Marking or downing someone Marked. The Yellow Olsen's Journal for Oblivious on Mark enables 'pressure' Marks (where you intend to push the Survivor away from an objective, and catch them in the final 20-30s). The 3 great purples doing: 20% regression and blocking the gen for 15s on Mark (Driver's License), which is great for those mid chase tags on someone greeding the gen, Exhaustion for 5s on Mark (Victim's Detailed Routine), and 10% Haste for 5s after Marking (Drop-Leg Knife Sheath), both of the latter great for aggressive Marking. Finally, my favorite add-on in the entire game, Outdoor Security 'Iri' Cam, or Floods of Rage on a Marked down.
I partly agree that he needs help when he isn't Marking people, so I've previously suggested Hindered on Survivors when they Reveal him for the Killer Instinct duration. It should be as high as possible, but low enough that it doesn't convert Fast-Vaults into Medium-Vaults (like Clown gas does, so maybe 8-12% range). Marked people can't reveal, so you can't double penalize them with both Hindered and Exposed. Finally, having it be Hindered for the Killer Instinct duration helps make the useless add-on (Marked Map) have a use case.
I think the largest problem with the reveal mechanic is that people are used to downward facing cameras, so they don't realize they aren't actually putting him in the middle of their screen. I saw someone post a screenshot of the Ghosty clearly in the top right 25% of their screen, but they were like "why isn't he getting revealed?!?" A major issue here is most of Ghosty's stalk/lean/reveal logic was coded when the Killer was the host (and not a server). If they make leaning go back to Killer-client side, it would make him a lot more smooth to play.
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