Proxy camping is still a perfectly viable playstyle
Do BHVR plan to do anything to dissaude "proxy-ing"?
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why should they? it's a legitimate strategy that has plentiful counterplay and risk to it.
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They already have - they increased the "survivors get to unhook themselves for FREE" feature to an even BIGGER radius this patch. It's essentially gone from an anti-facecamp measure to an anti-proxy measure, now. Killers can't even get remotely close to a hook at this point without it starting to give the hookie some unhook credits.
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"Plentiful counterplay"
Please explain what plentiful counterplay there is (without comms) when a leatherface stands 16m from a hook and moves in whenever he sees someone get close.
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wait till he gets distracted and trade. also do gens, granted now survivors spend 145 seconds on the hook including all animations. if killer doesnt lose 3 gens for camping, you cant blame anyone but yourself.
as for builds you might want to have if you're playing to win, use a sweaty perk called reassurance. or its lesser known alternative camaraderie. perks like babysitter or DS help to ensure the trade is secured.
did i say do gens? do gens.
also dont cherry pick examples. dbd community loves doing that so much and it's not really a good way of arguing.
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Learheface, trickster, huntress, hillbilly, deathslinger, etc. are all killers that can camp extremely well. I just picked leatherface because he is the most notable example.
In soloq, unless someone has kindred, there is no way to know a killer is camping until you have been there and seen it which wastes a lot of time.
Camping is a base feature. It requires neither a high amount of skill nor any specific perks (though there are camping support perks like deadlock), however for survivors without comms, as explained above, just getting the info that a killer is camping wastes a lot of time and the only real counter against campers like leatherface, trickster, huntress, etc. is, as you have said, perks or trying to pull insane stunts just to counter someone standing in place.
The amount of effort the killer has to put into camping vs the amount of effort and coordination survivors need to counter it are in no way comparable, which imo isn't good game design.
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The amount of effort the killer has to put into camping vs the amount of effort and coordination survivors need to counter it are in no way comparable, which imo isn't good game design.
Pretty much.
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Proxy camping requires decent gamesense to know when it's feasible to do so. Just because something doesnt take mechanical skill, doesnt mean it doesnt take any skill at all.
If you mindlessly camp in pubs, the only reason you'll succeed is because your opponents have no clue what to do and will gladly throw the game for you if not give up right away. otherwise, you'll lose gens, get a trade, end up in a terrible position.
and, as I said, there's a plenty of countermeasures and nerfs being made to make proxying unviable in any close skilled games except rare exceptionally fortunate scenarios like huntress getting a hill hook inside a 4 gen 30 seconds into the match.
lots of things in this game take less effort to do than to counter. frankly, most of the time that means that if you do implement that effort to counter them, the counter is reliable enough to ensure consistent or nearly so success. that's just how this game works for the most part, including the overall killer/survivor balancing dynamic.
anticamp system, 70 second stages, all the possible perks you have to fight camping and make it as risky and unreliable for killers in general as possible makes it really hard to take complaints about that seriously. at some point you just need to accept you/your team cant make correct decisions or execute them and no amount of balancing will aid that.
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If you mindlessly camp in pubs, the only reason you'll succeed is because your opponents have no clue what to do and will gladly throw the game for you if not give up right away. otherwise, you'll lose gens, get a trade, end up in a terrible position.
Thats not the "only reason". Or even a reason at all.
Solos cant communicate who to go save. Or even when its safe to save. Not all killers have a TR, even if they did have a TR, that doesnt mean everything; what about multilevel maps or walls that would make it safe?
Theres so much at play here to save from a camp on the survivors end.
Not everyone brings kindred, not everyone brings reassurance, or we'll make it. I cant see that on my end even if that is the case. I dont know my teams perks. Do you somehow?
Camping requires you to look at your screen, see an aura that tells you where the survivor you hooked is, and wait for any pixels moving around or towards the hook.
Now I dont know the solution to rid this game of this; short of making survivors that are unhooked just untouchable for 2 minutes or invulnerable. I dont see a way to really fix this.
We see a little bit of it in 2v8 where it teleports the hooked survivor somewhere else, which would be nice but there are other things that need addressing balance wise before something like that happens. And it would also need to rid the noise notification on unhook as well.2 -
yeah, solos are not very optimal, thats just how it is. which is why the game has lots of very powerful perks that pretty much shutdown proxy camping if used right.
there's no way to fix this, uncoordinated random survivors suck and if the killer is good & sweaty enough, they'll easily breach holes in their teamwork.
they will always underperform and make macro mistakes as long as there's any form of macro skill expression in this game so unless you'd want it being removed & streamlined into 1v1 simulator, I suggest you get comfortable with it staying as is with occasional nerfs every year.
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It seems you all forget about the killer playstyle of proxy camping, downing the rescuer, leaving them in the death state and tunneling the person that was just unhooked.
And don't give me the "but there are anti-tunnel perks" response because no one should have to run a full build of anti-tunnel perks that might only give you a little bit more game time to get around this playstyle while someone else is then bleeding out on the ground. That now makes the game unfun for not just one but two survivors.
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all hinges so much on survivors not being able to hold chase for a while
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Only Leatherface have chance to deal with 2+ survivors going for unhook. Most can usually only trade.
Deathslinger can't do even that. He is good only when 1 survivor tries rescue and don't dodge shot.
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I didn't forget just don't see it as an issue.
Either it was last second rescue, which was just now buffed and gave survivors lot of time on gens.
Or survivor did it early in front of the killer, which is missplay and should be punished.
Saying perks should be used to counter, what you struggle with is valid. Everyone needs perks.
It's like saying Legion should be buffed to have better kit for chase. No, use chase perks to fix that.
Or saying gens get done too fast, if you refuse to use slowdown perks. Who would have thought?
If you use suboptimal perks for fun, then you simply shouldn't take the game seriously. When you clearly don't try to win.
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You missed my point. Survivors should not have to rely on anti-tunnel perks to have a chance when there are perks to counter the gen slow down or chase perks that are overall more efficient than the anti-tunnel perks that, when a killer wants to tunnel, they will not provide much use.
And to your point on Letherface being the only killer that can handle a multiple survivor save, that is also kind a point in itself because you need more than one survivor to unhook hopefully without a trade which takes at least two if not the remaining three people off gens. It's gen slowdown without a perk and while some people see it as a proper playstyle, it gets around your above point about everyone needs perks. If the gens don't get done because everyone is working towards an unhook, survivors don't survive.
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Anti-tunneling perks will not provide value, when killer wants to tunnel?
It's not like you need to use 4 perks against tunneling. 1 is usually enough.
that is also kind a point in itself because you need more than one survivor to unhook hopefully without a trade which takes at least two if not the remaining three people off gens.
I don't see the issue. This version is safe to do, but you need more survivors, but even single survivor is able to unhook easily unlike before hook grabs were removed.
Sure, you will trade. That's why you don't do it early and keep survivor on the hook to prevent tunneling.
your above point about everyone needs perks
Not really, you can't do it as main playstyle. It's highly inefficient. Especially when it was just nerfed and hook stage takes 70 seconds.
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'do gens' is easier said than done in a swf or at higher mmr
at lower or where the avg survivor plays mmr, a survivor or 2 will immediately get off gen when they see someone even go down because they think he needs to be saved asap. If killer decides to camp, these guys will just surround hook waiting for who is going to actually save. You might know the optimal way to handle this situation but 9/10 times the randoms do not
either way, game is over most of the time here because there are way too many people off of gens for way too long and you're unlikely to recover from this
camping is too viable in solo q because too much coordination is required amongst a group of 4 uncoordinated players due to them having very little tools to coordinate besides a hud which most don't know how to use to make an informed decision
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so survivors cant stop themselves from being greedy for insta/fast unhook (something you should really rarely do) to the point they dont understand it's more profitable to finish gen and then go for unhook than go for unhook and backtrack and you think it's the issue with killer's playstyles being op?
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I challenge anyone who is complaining about "proxy camping" to post a video of your gameplay as killer and show us how easy it is to with without ever using this strategy. Post 10 consecutive matches, not cherry-picking single matches against potato survivors where you got 12 hooks with 3 gens left. Unless you can show that winning is consistently possible without ever doing it, then maybe put yourself in the other side's shoes and understand why they are doing it before complaining about it on the forum.
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I didn't say too op, it's too rewarding for the effort and the relative amount of coordination required by the 4 random players. F o u r random players, each with their own perception of what to do, what the match objective is and varying skill levels
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the unfortunate part is sometimes your team has the right intention and just doesn't want their fellow teammate to spend all game on a hook after their first chase or want to see them tunneled all game so they get off gens to block or trade aimlessly; again, your game is over at this point
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Seems like the issue should be help soloQ, not nerf proxy camping...
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it doesnt require much coordination or effort.
3 people need enough gamesense to not drop all their gens and waste time running around proxy camped person.
if they cant use their status HUD to see whether or not other people doing gens and make a decision based on that, that's their problem.
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solo q needs help, 100%
still not going agree that proxy camping is fine. Imo, killers in my game don't camp after feeling some gen pressure, they set the tone at the start of the match with the first guy. That's cheesy…
perhaps introduce a mechanic where one of us can trap a killer in a corner while gens get worked on for a bit, at least til the match is more favorable?
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you're assuming matchmaking works (it doesn't)
it's as much 'their problem' as it is you cheesing your way to a mmr where you feel this is the only way to play…
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perhaps introduce a mechanic where one of us can trap a killer in a corner while gens get worked on for a bit, at least til the match is more favorable?
Lol, that sounds highly abusable and really broken.
You can try to "lock" killer in deadzone, simply always try to chase away from gens, then die in corner. Those chases are highly inefficient for the killer.
I consider relation SWF vs killer to be actually quite balanced.
So help towards soloQ shouldn't change overall balance. It rather should be things that are already easy for SWF.
- show other survivors loadouts (in game)
- chat wheel with basic call outs (going for rescue, need heal etc.)
- option to stay in lobby after the game (keep playing with decent players)
None of those are relevant for SWF, but are quite a big deal for soloQ.
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A weak team (bad matchmaking) losing against a better killer is fine.
The issue here is matchmaking.
Also, it seems matchmaking now gives you matches like this: normal match, hard match, easy match … and loops.
This doesn't appear to be related to winning or losing BTW.
I've noticed that as survivor and as killer. (Although my last few survivor matches have been way less experienced players, I could see the "strenght" of the opposing killer)
On the killer side it's more flagrant though: I usually play a decent Nurse and one match I'm against survivor who casually die with one or no gen left, then I'm matched against a team that does 3 gens by the time I've found my first survivor (and forces me to play mercilessly) and to follow that I get a team trying to hide from me while I'm on them. And then I get a normal game again.
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it got increased again
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so matchmaking doesnt work (i know it way better than you) which leads to survivors being more prone to being underskilled than killer and how's that killer's issue?
devs have stated multiple times they arent going to balance the game around bad players. if survivors are severely lacking compared to killer, they are not meant to win.
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if by "camping extremely well" you mean getting a 1K as a punishment for playing terribly, then you could be probably right.
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