70 seconds hook timer aftermath. What do you think of the change? Good or bad?

Now survivor dont even need to come to unhook anytime soon someone is hooked.

Why waste time when you can, you know… do all the gens everyone are doing and then go to the unhook at the very last second without the hooked survivor even going into the second stage?

Horrible change. Heavier punish to killers that dont camp instead of the ones camping.

there is literally a huge difference between 3v1 that is actually considered as the best possible thing for the killer to do (but is NOT always achievable) where one survivor is on hook and 3v1 when a survivor is actually dead. Dead survivor can't generate pressure on killer, while hooked survivor actually can be a tool for generating pressure on the killer. Even better if that survivor has Deli ready, because they can absolutely nullify every killer's attempt of generating hook pressure, at least 2 teammates can peacefully do gens while nobody needs to go for unhook.

Think about why Deli is the best survivor perk in the game a bit.

How does an incapacitated survivor generate 'pressure'? What is this incapacitated survivor going to do? Do they do gens? Do they bodyblock? Do they grant speed boosts, or heal their fellow survivors?

killer is supposed to not just put a survivor on a random hook they find. They are actually supposed to hook them in a strategical position when they can actually pressure multiple gens and be aware of situations around them. Also, good hook pressure from killer also consists of successfully forcing a beneficial trade, or another survivor unhooking this one so that unhooked one becomes an easy target.

Greeding a survivor on hook means killer can't expect any of these scenarios to happen, even if they strategize around hooks, leaving minimum of other 2-3 survivors doing gens and additional time being wasted. Time is the most important resource for the killer and traversal of the map to crucial points isn't instant, even for high mobility killers.

The hooked survivor is being extremelty useful IF they don't attempt to kobe without Deli or intentionally fail skillchecks on hook.

Or are you so caught up in hook-denial strategies that you feel a nervousness at the idea of survivors being able to unhook their ally without it costing an extra hookstate, and you misidentify that as 'pressure'?

i haven't mentioned hook denial strategies anywhere, they have never be meant to win the match, just to annoy the killer, whilst being quite unhealthy due to forcing an unhealthy playstyle (bleeding out)

If it was better to leave survivors on the hook, then Deliverance, a perk whose only effect is that it gets a survivor -off- the hook, would not be the best perk, would it?

did you like stop and started thinking for at least a moment? Can you solve a literal 2+2 to see why Deli is the best possible perk for these cases?

Tunnelling is a crutch in public games. If you've used that crutch enough you can't win anything without a crutch that would explain why you feel that way. It still doesn't change the fact it's a crutch though.

I think it's fine honestly. It's one of those changes that if it wasn't in the patch notes then 90% of players wouldn't even notice.

• It doesn't but it also increases camping time for killers. Which will dissuade the play style
• That is such a stretch because anti-camp unhooks hardly ever happen naturally within the match. I see it very typically with noobie killers
• Tunneling can be necessary if you need to apply immediate pressure. An additional 10 seconds won't affect this because the survivor is already on hook. Turneling situations happens from unhooks the most.
• Tunneling can be detrimental if not done correctly. Again, an extra 10 seconds shouldn't matter people the survivor is already hooked and not making progress
• That strategy is only valid if done by a coordinated SWF. It doesn't happen in most matches.
• Again, how? The extra 10 seconds just help delays the 2nd stage. Nothing to do with hook trades
• Fair, but you gotta remember that even if gens got another 10 seconds increase, those killers will still be bad. Any chance that benefits survivors they will naturally suffer the most.

Survivor perks kept getting nerfed that last year, and it seems like they couldn't catch a break. Let survivors have this win for once

Killer mains are just being dramatic when they say it has caused more slugging.

This is my view.

When we had AFC proposed we had lots of posts saying this would trigger constantly, the how was never clear.

When we had 8 gen kick limit we had posts saying this would would be abused by survivors, the how was never clear.

When people somehow argued the MFT nerf was a buff, the how was never clear.

What's good for those arguing against the change compared to the past: the fearmongering on those old changes were quickly disproven when the game went live. AFC and 8 gen never kicked in other than the scenarios they were supposed to, MFT dropped in usage. But now Killers, who can't see what survivors are doing, can justify everything based off this change.

Its giving a bit more breathing room as it should do, the gen times were to allow killers to have more time to pressure not to have more time to camp, this is a necessary balance from 6.1.0 that's been long overdue, if you say otherwise you've not played for long.

Any change that makes camping worse is good.

because hooked survivor will become dead weight when unhooked unless they have anti-tunneling perks they can use aggressively or can get to a safe tile for extended chase. Having unhooked survivor hop on a gen is wrong move in many occasions because killer will literally look for a chase around gens and we will have a case where that same survivor will be hooked again.

Returning to the 'I am not going to explain my point, just gonna call you bad if you don't agree with it' argumentation. This does not help your case.

i have literally explained my point multiple times, but it doesn't reach you by the looks.

So is defending the hook something that's really important on high MMR, or is it something that survivors can easily counter on high MMR? Pick something.

first, let's exclude imaginary high MMR because it acts like it doesn't exist in this game. And defending hook + applying pressure to survivors over hooks has become next to impossible against actually competent teams running perks like Deli, Wicked, Reassurance and similar. NOT in the way you think they are using it.

Now you're telling me you have never experienced gameplay at high skill level. You should watch Otz sometimes and see how his game sense kicks in. It's not a 50/50 when he plays, because he makes deductions about where survivors would reasonably go.

Plus, you have a plethora of aura-reading perks at your disposal.

that works extremely well until you come up to survivors that are actually aware you will try to predict where they will go and won't be as predictable as again, your average team. Again, these survivors are rare to come by in pubs because of catastrophically bad matchmaking.

Again, this is not showing, in any way, how survivors use hooks to pressure the killer, at all. You're getting OFF the hook here. Those extra 10 seconds don't help your team here, UNLESS the killer is camping the hook.

well, looks like there really is no point in trying to explain why the change is extremely impactful on actual high skill levels anymore, i'll end up talking to a wall again. Have a nice day.

Just gonna repeat that it could be removed from the game and 0 changes would be seen.

Has had 0 effect on everyones gameplay. Including people that play this as a career on twitch.

I haven't noticed. I mean, it IS a thing. It's just that I still go to second stage when I would've before, and it hasn't much impacted me as killer because survivors always try to unhook literally 5 seconds after I look away. So, I mean, whatever, right?

Any second a survivor spends on hook is good for the killer, unless they are looking to camp and tunnel that survivor.

If the killer is not camping and if they aren't going to tunnel the unhooked survivor, it would always be objectively optimal to unhook as soon as possible. Any second that survivor spends on hook is wasted time they could be spending contributing to the round in countless ways instead. It's only if the killer is camping and tunnelling that this changes, because then the survivor's hook time also wastes time of the killer, and even if they aren't hardcamping they will periodically be returning to hook so as to be there once the survivor gets unhooked for the tunnel. So the longer you can delay the unhooks in those cases, the more of the killer's time you waste, the longer you can delay that survivor being taken out of the round and the killer's focus shifting to other things. The more likely you can also make it that the killer will grow antsy and venture out to pressure other survivors and the unhook then happening without the killer right around the hook, potentially losing the unhooked survivor or at least giving them a headstart, time to heal, hide, or such.

If you aren't camping or tunnelling, survivors leaving others on hooks for longer periods of time is actually beneficial for you. You will build more pressure on the survivors that can actually contribute to the round, have a survivor less to worry about that is not contributing, and the survivors can actually end up losing due to "greeding" unhooks, getting snowballed.

Now, camping and tunnelling is often necessary to win against strong survivor teams, at least on the relatively less strong killers. But if you're a competent killer player, around 90% of groups you'll meet won't constitute a "strong team", and you won't have big issues winning regardless, not even having to camp or tunnel to begin with. That goes up to 99+% if you're a really good killer player. And for the rest, well, it's not like the up to 16% more hook time makes things all the more challenging, particularly given that this only comes into play if the survivors actually only unhook past the 60 seconds.

I think overall this is a slight change to make camping and tunnelling a little less attractive, but it won't have too much of an impact on most matches. That it makes the anti-facecamp mechanic a little more relevant is not a bad thing, because unless the killer is literally facecamping, that mechanic is irrelevant. You can stand a certain distance away from the hook to prevent it from triggering while still being able to intercept unhook attempts, if another survivor is around the hook it pauses altogether (ridiculously enough even if that survivor is slugged), and other survivors don't see the progress bar so they can't know whether it would be better not to be around the hook or whether they need to get the unhook.

A little thought experiment: Imagine if they simply removed hook timers completely. I'm not saying this would be a good change - much as it may often feel bad, I think camping and the urgency and risks and dangers and snowball potential it yields are integral to the gameplay experience, the excitement, the frustration, the relief, all of that gets people hooked emotionally on the game. But still, if we imagine a scenario where hook timers are removed, survivors would certainly not leave people on hook indefinitely. But camping as we know it would stop existing. Maybe something to try in a modifier.

I notice it but only because I’m looking for it. I like the change and in my opinion it does help a little bit. Let me explain how I see it:

As with many things in this game, this game is about bluffing and calling your opponent’s bluff. All Killers and Survivors play differently but at the root of the game there is this idea of respect vs greed. Pallets are obviously an easy way to see this concept. If a Killer respects a pallet, you know the Survivor can greed it. However, if the Killer calls the Survivor's bluff the Killer will be rewarded with a hit. If the Killer greeds a pallet then you know the Survivor can punish. If the Survivor plays it safe by pre dropping, this telegraphs to the Killer that the Killer is free to greed loops by cutting off Survivors since the Killer knows that the Survivor will waste animation time dropping pallets vaulting windows etc.

This concept of respect vs greed extends to the whole “hook game”. The Killer can camp the hook or patrol the map after hooking. If the Killer camps, the Survivors can punish this by staying on gens and trading hooks at the last minute. If the Killer patrols then the Survivors can punish this by going for a quick unhook.

The Killer can also bluff by acting like they aren’t camping when they actually are (proxy camping). The Survivors can call the bluff by staying on gens and forcing the Killer to go to them or else the gens get finished. If the Killer goes to patrol the map/gens then the hook is left open for a safe unhook.

Through the lens of greed, respect, conditioning, bluffing and calling, I have felt and noticed (again because I’m looking for it) that the 10 sec as small as it is does give the Survivors a little bit more room to punish the Killer.