There is now no incentive to p100 a survivor

Honestly, if anything, I think lobby dodging is becoming more of a problem, and will be because of everything being hidden.

I’m watching people come into lobby and leave after twenty or so seconds. Whatever they’re using to discern whether or not they want to stay is definitely happening more. SoloQ teammates switched out five times in same lobby.

And if you ARE running SoloQ and happen to join lobby closely to when others do, you’re dodged by the killer two or three times before one stays. Taking away the ability to see prestige didn’t help at all. It’s making it worse because now, if the killer even THINKS you might be an SWF, they’re leaving.

I’m not entirely sure why so many survivors are leaving and dodging lobbies now, but perhaps taking away the ability to see their “perceived” usefulness of teammates actually made things worse. Which I think is dumb as prestige is not an indication of skill. I’ve seen many TERRIBLE p100s and have had some random p1 run the killer for 5 gens.

The main point is that we all know that prestige is nothing more than bragging rights. Killers dodge SWF teams not prestige numbers. And I’d hazard to guess the survivors who are dodging more frequently now in SoloQ are the same SWFs who complained about killers dodging lobbies and play SoloQ when their friends aren’t around.

I agree, this is why I am glad for the lack of them in lobbies.

It only hard to agree on the mater because you are not putting good arguments or facts against our points. You haven't really stated a solution to the problem of what would happen if hiding prestige became optional (and some of our points you outright simply seem to ignore). If you want a hope in the fog to sway us, you need facts as we're semi reasonable (long as it don't concern object).

Now before you try painting us and our friends as some villain group we will remind the class that we Rulebreakers are chaotic neutral (the other's alignments may vary but we think everyones neutral something). Not all of our mocking is hostile (as some friends do have p100 chars and they're equally mocked), but to the point: There have been countless p100s who keep trying to act like their amazing as survivor, keep trying to agrivate us into getting our attention as killer, in general act like dip sticks and care to gues what happens? They fall…often, hard, and many will even swing on hook when it happens despite the team doing good (we occasionally think its shame but thats us being petty).

My opinion on the matter remains that it should be something to be proud about and if I want to be proud about it I should be allowed to show everyone I am a proud to play X character to that point.

Can't we be proud of achievements and want to show everyone?

While your opinion is your own there are two facts that you should be aware of. First: You can have a p100 char without ever touching them (that in of itself is actually funny). Second: Your still free to be proud of it and you can still show everyone, at the end screen. Its not like its hidden at the end (we think, we admittedly don't pay attention to prestige so as of this typing we don't know if its hidden at the end screen, we'll see soon) so after the match is done everyone who wants to show off can and those who care can see then.

I don't want to leave because of a poor deciscion(in my perspective), I want to stay and keep playing for the very goal I have been playing this game for!

Thats entirely your call but with all due respect, we feel thats a pathetic reason to leave. Its not affecting balance, how the game plays, adding broken things…its just hiding a simple badge till the end so people dodge less in the beginning. If you really loved this game as much as you claim, this should not be the straw that breaks the camels back unless there was an ulterior reason that this is affecting you so much (we're looking at the accusations of you wanting to lobby shop).

We've re-read everything and still haven't seen answers to the following issues:

1: You can't make it optional because then its just the same as not hiding it.

Players dodge based on prestige, we can debate how much but this is a fact. If you make it optional players will also dodge based on that since your "hiding" something. You've said in a past post: "Again, in ANONYMOYS MODE FASHION. Which means, the pestige icon would be HIDDEN." but as far as we can tell it would only hide that players prestige no? Should someone notice they cant see that persons prestige they will base that to dodge as if it was shown anyway. Ex: "I can see everyones prestige but I cant see dwight's prestige, he must be a p100 or noob, im not going to take the chance [proceeds to bail]". Making it so if one person hides it then everyone is hidden? Not gonna work either. Ex: "Hey my prestige is hidden, someones hiding something. [bails]." This is the main point of arguing about making it optional. You can show everyone or no one at the beginning, but making it optional does not work for this reason. This is also the reason A/B/C test would not work (we FINALLY figured that one out [took embarrassingly to long]) How do you solve this problem?

[———]

2: How can shoppers actually shop with even less info to go off of?

You've said before (or as we understood it atleast) that assumption is a root problem. We countered with how hiding prestige removes an assumption which you then go on to say that dedicated shoppers will use more ridiculous methods. We then say that it then doesn't become shopping (the definition we use is: "Intentionally looking for an easier match by repeatedly leaving and joining and looking at different lobbies of players") as its effectively random leaving. How are they able to actually shop this way as its just guessing thats more random than before? (prestige does not equal skill yes, but the shoppers put enough stock in it to think so and hence used that)

You also said this: "If killers never can see the prestiges of survivors they would NOT dodge. It would be the same as of right now on that matter." because it has now finally happened via hiding prestige. Also you "As for survivors, people already dodge anonymous modes,default skins, globe players, this won't affect anything in that regard." your correct but neglected something. Now survivors wont dodge due to a teammates prestige.

[———]

3: Uncertainty about what you want.

From what we gather you simply want hiding prestige to be an option, consequences be damned as we see from here: "Hiding is not a problem in itself. It's hiding it for EVERYONE that is the problem for me. I don't want to hide it. It should be an OPTION." Why? Since the first problem still stands its like not having an option at all, only the illusion of it. You can still even show off all that dedication at the end screen so why is it so important to show it at the start where people can still dodge? If you say something along the lines of "accomplishment" below has a rebuttal.

You also said this previously to kit_mason: "My fun was increasing that meaningless number." We ask why it stopped being fun since you can still increase it. Ego? You said its not an ego thing with: "removing features from the game isn't about ego really, it's about people working together towards a goal and being able to monitor your friends progress without needing external means to do so." yet in that same comment we have: "We need to understand that it's a badge and letting showing off their dedication to whoever they want is a goal in itself that many PVP GAMES encourage."….that bolded part is explicitly an ego thing. Also you: "My opinion on the matter remains that it should be something to be proud about and if I want to be proud about it I should be allowed to show everyone I am a proud to play X character to that point." You wish people to be allowed to show off their prestige which is also an ego thing, specifically their egos. We all agree having some ego in a game isn't bad, but you are also contradicting yourself.

We even offered an alternative with someone else's idea, but you said: "I will say and agree that pre lobby is obviously part of the equation for me, but it's not the whole thing". By "whole thing" do you mean that you want it shown across the lobbies or "whole thing" as theres another reason? If so whats that reason? The above "must be an option regardless of anything else"? You wish to strive towards your goal of becoming p100? Nothings stopping you but you. Have it have meaning by being able to show others? Those that actually care can see at the end screen, you can still tell your friends, and the alternative offered allowed it for friends (and shanghaied swf mates) to see before the match (and remember one of your "solutions" was having killer never see prestige, so having it shown in the normal lobby would be pointless and random survivors may still dodge if teammates outside the swf can see prestige).

Lastly you say you don't want to leave from their decision. The fact that your thinking of leaving because of that decision paints your intentions in a much different light. We are giving the benefit of the doubt and not accusing you of wanting to lobby shop, but from our eyes somethings off if something like this is gonna make you go. You can still go to your goal, you can still show off to friends, you can still show off to randoms at the end…like what the hell? Maybe its us not understanding but the way it looks is defiantly not good.

These need straightened out before we can even attempt to come up with something satisfactory. What explicitly do you want.

[———]

We may be harsh, but we are genuinely trying to help you find a middle ground you'd like. We went out of our way to line up all the problems we've had no answers to, can you solve these definitively or at least to a "good enough" standard by the masses?

1: We feel that isn't the case. Sure maybe a handful will be looking for a "equal" match but as we've stated, many look for easier matches. They couldn't before find guaranteed equal matches (prestige does not equal skill after all) and they can't now. It also has nothing to do the question and issue with making prestige optional as this would be showing mmr, a different type of number with little meaning.

2: We aren't just looking at the killer prospective. Survivors do in fact dodge each other too. One survivor could be looking for a group that will carry them for example. What your suggestion for point one is is to show mmr, not prestige. If your adamant on that you should be advocating that, but people above are helpfully and occasionally indirectly explaining why we would think it's a bad idea.

3: You say teammates so why is that alternative not good enough? Because you can't show strangers? We also want to make clear that if either point 1 (yours or ours) is addressed people will still dodge on petty reasons, it wouldn't become null no matter what. We do admit that you're way, with what we are understanding is showing mmr (nothing to do with hiding prestige mind you >.>), would reduce some lobby shopping, but we would all be debating by how much and it also adds its own problems. Having the lobby average would be interesting, but not as effective as currently hiding it (if someone notices the average is higher or lower than what they want, guess whats gonna happen…), while also defeating the purpose to show others your prestige.

4[?]: You still can and your pointedly ignoring that. You also keep using the word "friends" and we got questions. What is stopping you from taking a pic, screenshot, whatever of you as a p100 and sending it to friends? What is stopping you from showing them at the end of a match you play together? What is stopping you from simply telling them? What we think you mean is strangers/everyone else. Which the end of the match, we again state, shows. Its not a big deal to show prestige, however it has cause people to dodge lobbies [fact]. To help with this the devs have hidden prestige. We again state it can not be optional feature as explained in point 1. We agree prestige doesn't equal skill, but has it stopped people from lobby shopping based off of that? (The answer is no) By hiding prestige it removes one thing people can try to base shopping off of and is actually helping the games health.

I have already seen basekit Claudettes and Megs who want to look like noobs but are actually P100 lol

I don't trust the cosmetics, I trust how they play or I trust what they're bringing into the lobby.

If that is intended, they why are survivors allowed to change their loadouts at 5 seconds left in the lobby?

How are killers supposed to change their loadouts based on what survivors are bringing into the game, when the survivors are purposely making changes at 5 seconds, to prevent killers from changing their loadouts in reponse?

I feel like removing showing prestiges in lobbies was a mistake.

First, grinding to P 100 feels less rewarding now, and you can't even match with randos in lobbies anymore, because you don't know that their Yoichi is at P 100, and you could whip out your own P 100 Yoichi. A lot of fun is gone.

Second, people will keep dodging anyway. 2+ flashlights in the lobby? Dodge. At least 2 of the survivors are wearing flashly paid clothes? Dodge. You check their Steam profiles and notice they are in each others' friends lists? Dodge.

Instead of removing the ability to see Prestiges, how about you bring that back, and start penalizing lobby dodging? The real problem at the core is lobby dodging. There are many reasons for lobby dodging, but that is what ultimately messes with the MMR and matchmaking.

A killer sees 2 or more p 100 survivors and exits the lobby? Give them 5 minute penalty. They dodge another lobby? 15 minute penalty.

TL;DR Hiding prestiges just kills the fun in P 100-ing, and doesn't address the real issue - lobby dodging. Start penalizing lobby dodging, because people will dodge for many reasons.

More and more things a veteran might own are removed, made invisible or sold to the newer players as well now (old rift charms). The only thing I still own, to show how long I have been playing, is the Y4 and Y5 anniversary Items. But sadly they were very rare to begin with. On my oldest main, I have only 20 of each left.