So What type of pinhead changes are y'all hoping for?
personally I'd love it if the shortened the time it takes pinhead to teleport to whoever I'd solving the puzzle. or Have them held by the chains a little bit longer as he's teleporting to the box.
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His chains need to be buffed, Many times hitting the chain you barely gain any distance, if any at all over any decent distance, and if they dodge the chain, forget it, they are completely gone.
Looking at the math for it, when you chain a survivor, each chain takes 1 second to break, and the survivor moves at:
- 1.13 m/s with 3 chains
- 1.695 m/s with 2 chains
- 2.26 m/s with 1 chain.
So in total, during those 3 seconds, you reduce the distance a survivor can move from 12 meters to 5.09 meters. But, the time it takes to switch to the gateway camera is 0.5 seconds, then there is the slight travel time, but lets say you land the gateway literally on top of the survivor and its effectively 0. Then you have 0.25 seconds for the camera to switch back.
That amounts to 0.75 seconds where you are not moving AT ALL. So you give up 3.45 meters of distance doing that. Meaning that now you actually are only slowing a survivor distance down to 8.54 meters. where you are moving at full speed.
In summation,
- holding w and not using your chain, means that you gain 2.25 meters of distance on a survivor during the time you would be using your power.
- Using your chain and landing it PERFECTLY, you gain 5.26 meters of distance on the survivor.
And if you miss, or the survivor dodges, they gain massive distance. That makes the power not worth using most of the time.
The other problem with him on the survivor side is the RNG around the box can be miserable in regards to spawning, and you never know if your teammates are actually going for the box or not.
To combat this, these would be my suggested changes:
- Increase the time it takes for a survivor to break a single chain to 1.25 seconds from 1 second
- This turns it from gaining 5.26 meters of distance on perfectly landed chains, to instead gaining about 7.5 meters of distance. Making it a bit stronger
- Impaling wire becomes basekit. Every single cenobite is running this addon, it needs to just be basekit.
- Make it so the cenobite no longer breaks chains himself when running into them, it doesn't make sense to chain someone, and then have to walk around the chain to not break it, given the little distance gained when landing a PERFECT chain over just holding w. Having to walk around the chain makes you lose any distance you might have gained and is silly.
- Rework the original pin addon to do something else so it can't be used to hard tunnel
- Rework the box spawn logic so that it is more randomized and can't be figured out by the killer or the survivors based on where everyone is.
- Also fix it for maps like lery's where it literally has like 2 spawn points.
- Rework the box to work like:
- If a chain hunt is happening and you are holding the box, the person holding the box does not get chains spawning.
- It sucks for new players because they probably don't understand the timing for solving the box at that point and leads to just infinite chain hunts
- If a chain hunt is NOT happening, the box spawns chains on the survivor holding the box and disappear if they start solving the box, so that they are encouraged to actually solve the box quickly rather than hold onto it and hold it hostage.
- If a chain hunt is happening and you are holding the box, the person holding the box does not get chains spawning.
- Rework the Iridescent Lament Configuration to have a downside and be stronger so it isn't just straight up an upgrade. After making impaling wire basekit, this would become the new "always run this" addon.
- 10 seconds before a chain hunt starts, the survivors all see the aura of all other survivors for that duration
- This lets solo queue survivors see if their teammates are running for the box or not and they can figure out who needs to go for it.
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This explains perfectly what I want to see! A great post as always from Reinami!
Good QoL changes for Pinhead to make him smoother to play (he shouldn't break his own chains with his body, that feels so bad) with better rewards for using his power (correct)(more reward for hitting a survivor with such a difficult power ) but also healthy changes for SoloQ because no killer should have such an basekit advantage against SoloQ.
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there is also fact that when pinhead is using his gateway, his m/s for whatever reason is slowed to 90% similar how when nurse has fully charged blink, her m/s is slowed down. it is like old clown pink bottle problem where holding your m2 would make you lose distance. it is bad because say a survivor pre-drop a pallet, you can't use your chains around a circular loop because as you channel gateway, the survivor gaining distance for just running forward in the loop compared to you.
the Iridescent Lament Configuration, After making impaling wire basekit, this would become the new "always run this" addon.
It is already must use add-on. his chain hunt is terrible without it.
I already wrote a post in feedback section for what I think would be good changes for pinhead. the summary of changes was to weaken chain-hunt and improve consistency of his regular chain power.
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Not sure, tbh. I would like chains to be slightly worth taking the risk on, but I really would not be willing to sacrifice Box power for it. The Box is the real killer and I'm fine playing second banana to it. It gives Pinhead an interesting dynamic being "Box seeker #5" rather than the Box just being "lol slowdown"
His iri Box is the only thing that keeps Pinhead relevant against efficient SWF imo, I hope that addon stays. I don't fault Survivors for being efficient/greedy/good at math but this addon is sometimes quite literally can be the difference between a 0k and a 4k all because the coordinated team chose gens before friends. Also a godsend against triple Background Player lobbies
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I don't want to see any major changes whatsoever. Pinhead is pretty much perfect as it stands.
I'd like to see improvements to support chain placement, and maybe the ability to not break chains if you walk through them yourself.
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Chain Hunt is active at the start of each trial 😎
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You nailed it, pun not intended. OK maybe a little intended.
I think Pinhead is mostly fine but yes, his chains are very weak. He should be more of a fun chase Killer, not just a slowdown Killer. I also think the chains are unnecessarily hard to use sometimes and finicky. They are fine when launched, it's more that the setup, turning, and launching feels a bit clunky and slow. He should be snappier. If anyone could use an autoaim feature that homes in on Survs, it's Pinhead. They should also have a stronger hinder so he can actually use them to catch up, and I feel like there's no reason he should be able to break his own extradimensional chains by walking through them when his vault animation isn't even a vault. I don't see the point in punishing the Killer for using his power like this.
You got it on the Box too. I do think having the Box on you as Survivor should be way way way more of a deficit, because it's way too easy to take the Box hostage and mess with Pinhead this way. You should never be able to continuously lock the Killer out of any part of their power, and it's far easier for Survivors to do this to deny Chain Hunt indefinitely than anything else. It's also obnoxiously hard to find when you're trying to look for it making it a massive liability to an M1 Killer with weak M2 to hunt down, and making it really frustrating to find for Survivors especially SoloQ if he's running Iri Box. Make the Box easier for Pinhead to find and solve when he's close by, maybe give it a slight aura reveal within 8 meters of it? And maybe make chain hunt harder to play around by hiding the Box's aura before a certain threshold, or make it harder to stop by making people carrying the Box hindered or exhausted basekit, or reveal their auras briefly to Pinhead for a second. Something so that holding the Box is actually detrimental, though necessary.
This is a Killer based around pain and being painful to deal with. But also pleasure. Make it a pleasure to have fun trying to dodge his chains by rewarding Survs who manage to "toro" it around loops, but also a pleasure to the player to successfully hit with them correctly. Then make the Box more painful to Survivors who try to use it for their benefit, but less painful for Pinhead to find.
And I agree: Impaling Wire basekit, and maybe an addon pass. Who even USES the maggot and cricket addons?2 -
Impaling wire basekit, increased durability against environment chain breaks, Pinhead cant break chains, Pinhead chain power increased time to break free from chains, iri box basekit
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I frankly hope they don't nerf the reduction to 90% to much, since that's what make him get punished for misses and feel better to play against than clown. I think the better way to go would be to buff his m/s slowdown and add impaling wire basekit.
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Chains dont break over environment.
Impaling wire reworked.
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Anything that's not a nerf. Undoing all his add-on nerfs could be a start.
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Did they change the Pin add-on that lets him damage survivors with chains but had the secondary effect of making tunneling off hook extremely easy? If not, I hope it's in the changelist.
That aside, I honestly think Pinhead is basically perfect as is. Chains are hard to hit but rewarding, and the box creates a unique match dynamic not really found on any other killer. He doesn't really struggle to keep up the way other members of the cast do, in my experience. Not the strongest killers, but he's certainly not the weakest.
If I were to suggest anything else, maybe just some QoL on chain aiming. I'm a bit of a noob with him, but indoor maps can be a real pain with verticality in my experience.
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At this point I would be fine with the devs gutting the box/chain hunt if it meant the chains that I aim and shoot weren’t so weak and easy to break. Certain addons being basekit would be great, but I would cry actual tears of joy if Pinhead stopped breaking his own chains.
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i know youre teasing, but funnily enough tgis does literally nothing for us. Starting the match with a chain hunt with near 100% accuracy is already expected of us Cenobites.
The suggestion that others have made that Pinhead can't break his own chains would be 100x more impactful
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I usually run torture pillar +iri box to make them start a bit faster.
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That one is Engineer’s Fang and no you can still tunnel immediately off hook with it.
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Lame. It's an interesting addon but the only times I've ever ever seen it as a survivor is against Pinheads that are super glued to hook. It definitely belongs somewhere in the patch notes.
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I feel like his teleport is very disorienting and sometimes puts you in really bad spots (like on the floor below the survivor) and I usually find that the time it takes to teleport and get to the survivor they almost always finish the box and have time to run away. Idk I mainly just want less confusing teleports
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no, the add-on is called original pain. it makes so that whenever you chain someone, they are deep wounded allow you to m1 and go through borrow time.
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some tweaks for chain projectile
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yeah I’ve had pinhead players do this and it’s essentially uncounterable
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strong opinion but i gotta say i like how you think so try doing something like that for dredge for me next please
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injure is the engi fang, unhook deep wound is original pain, rework the second one but first it ok
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While they do similar things, kinda, I’m pretty sure he’s describing Engineer’s Fang. Original Pain only inflicts deep wound when/if a survivor breaks a chain. Engineer’s Fang injures if a survivor is hit by Pinhead’s possessed chain.
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No idea why he needs any changes to begin with
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engineer fang gives speed boost. original pain gives deep wound which does not give speed boost and because pinhead can break his own chains, Original pain is premier tunnel off-hook add-on in the game.
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Engineer’s Fang inflicts damage/takes a health state if you hit a survivor with the possessed chain. Do you play Pinhead..?
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yes and because it does that, it gives speed boosts making BT extend chases. if you original pain on other hand, after 3 second of unhook immunity, you can chain survivor and immediately hit them off hook. also original pain has no downside for tunneling, engineer fang has downside.
I am fairely certain that it is add-on that OP is talking about.
it is nearly uncounterable. it was more uncounterable before because there was a bug where you could chain someone as they got unhooked. this was a bug. the bug was fixed and now there is 3 second timer where chains will not spawn after being unhooked. nevertheless, unless you are able to dodge his chains shortly after being unhooked, pinhead is incredibly at tunneling off hook.
it is arguably his only real strength as his chase power is very bad and other strength he has is that if you know box spawn logic, you can spam the box by walking to it over and over and keep re-activating chain-hunt. This is very good for camping hooks and it is also really good for tunneling because box causes survivors to gain a scream notification(Like Rancor) which allows him to tunnel survivors that are on death hook.
So he is just, tunnel, tunnel. tunnel with game delay.
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Yeah. Usually by the time pinhead finishes teleporting the survivor already has a head start.
Post edited by LadyOwO on2 -
Make the BP event you get for hitting a survivor while they're chained also count if you hit them within 2 seconds after they break free from chains, that would fix him.
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Basekit Impaling Wire And Iridescent Box would be amazing
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I hope he comes
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simple . Buffs to his m2 making the chain less rng and the actuall slowdown you get on a chain hit more conssistent. Perhaps buffs to his turn rate add ons and a few other . The one nerf or change i could see is making survivors auras visible when within 16m of the box. This would help lessen the confusion the box may cause in solo queue. PH is almost a perfect killer so i hope they don't change him too much.
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"The Box." "You opened it!"
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I dont think showing survivor auras within 16m of the box would help because the issue is when multiple uncoordinated survivors drop their tasks to cross the map to fetch the box. or assume someone else would do that and leave it unattended.
IMO there's nothing that can be really done about the box except just hoping solo q people learn enough gamesense to utilize UI to figure when they should be the ones to commit to the box.
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I would maybe change some add ons like the deep wound one, but otherwise, I really wouldn't change anything. I think he's almost a perfect killer and he's one of my mains.
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I agree with you and the person you quoted, the Box puts him too far away when he teleports and gives Survivors too much head start. Plus again, it can be used to take him kinda hostage, or create situations where Survivors control his power, not him controlling it. It's his Box, he should be able to use it to his advantage more.
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