Why don't I see DS more?
The lack of DS in my games is a little astonishing to me. I do know there are perks such as OtR now, but I remember pre-6.1.0 where you couldn't go a single match without the perk.
Especially with all the tunnelling complaints, I'm expecting to see it dominating again, but it's just... not. I do see it, but nowhere near as ubiquitous as before, not even having OtR in its stead a lot of the time.
Is this all anecdotal, or is anyone else experiencing anything similar? And if so, then why?
Comments
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Ever since they added conspicuous actions, you can't really use DS offensively now. Like you said there are perks like OTR now, so I imagine that's why you just don't see it as much. Also if a killer wants to tunnel DS isn't going to do anything but buy you like 8 seconds with how fast the stun timer is
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Probably because more and more killers are slugging so it's a waste of a perk slot
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It is decently common, but I guess it's mainly a combination of the fact that people prefer running other perks over DS, and that DS isn't as good at stopping tunnelling as it once was. It's only one second from the old 5s DS, but that makes a pretty big difference.
Nightlight ranks it in #10, so it's for sure one of the more common perks. I see it a bunch still as well, just not in like every other loadout.
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It's an over-rated perk. It does nothing if the killer isn't tunneling. If they are tunneling it probably won't save you.
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I never run it tbh. I have way more fun running blast mine, self Heal, urban, and boon shadow step
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It's not that great of a perk in normal games. If the killer tunnels, unless you seek out the killer there's a 75% chance it will be someone else. OtR still provides value post conspicuous action. If you're high MMR the chance that you'll hit a killer who can catch you pretty quickly after a 4 second stun is pretty high. Other survivors might also run in and take body blocks for you, not knowing about your DS.
The only reason I think it gets used as much as it does is because of its prevalence among top SWFs/comps who have much more ability to use it in a match.
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I see it almost every game sometimes up to 3 times, I admit it doesn't matter at most strong killers, it only hurts already weak ones most of the time.
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ever since they added conspicuous actions I’ve stopped using it
I personally found it hilarious using it in the killers face on a gen but I totally understand why it had to be nerfed
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I certainly started waiting before picking survivors up, just in case they have DS. I guess, they didn't like that.
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I see it exactly as much as it takes to make the perk annoying. In a team with near unbeatable survivors, they have it. In a team who's just "strong" enough to probably run it, I respect it, and that's what ends up costing me the game, making the objectively correct play in any other match. Sometimes I'll say screw it and tunnel 1 or 2 people, and if course they have DS, and were the only ones with DS. None of the ones I didn't tunnel had it. But it's so strong, and with tunneling allegedly being seen so often, you expect everyone to run it. There's no good reason not to.
Most people calling DS weak don't even realize why it's so strong. You're literally forcing the killer to go on a 4th chase to kill a survivor, and if you drop chase instead after they've used it, you basically gave them a free chase with nothing to show for it on your end. "Don't tunnel and you don't get DS'd." 1) That's wrong, because you can hook people so fast that you have multiple DSs active, you're not tunneling, and yet you get stunned, not just by 1 but sometimes by 2. 2) You have to tunnel to compete with good survivors. You just have to. You're never gonna get enough value from your gen perks, or kill survivors fast enough to beat them if you're splitting up hooks. I've tried it, you've tried it, comp killers have tried it.
So I've got 2 possible conclusions for why people don't run DS more. They either think it's weak because of groupthink, or they figure they can win without it. I wish it was the latter, but I'm pretty sure people just call it weak and that's the end of their thought. Their loss.
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It most certainly can save you. Y'all complain about DS "not doing anything" in matches where you've lost anyway, because you got a bad team or whatnot. In matches with good survivors, DS turns a 3k into a 1k easily, because it takes away all of the killers momentum. You'll stun the killer, teammates do the remaining gens, and they body block you for the 4-man out. If not, oh well. You died so that the other 3 could live.
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Agree. I see this perk all the time. the most stereotypical setup is Adrenaline/Hope, Deja vu, Lithe and Decisive strike for the suspect swf's that i have seen. basically deja vu to rush gens to use adrenaline, Lithe to waste time, DS to waste time if you tunnel.
I feel like all swf teams run it because they can afford to greed perks. like they don't use WoO or bond or kindred. so they just fill in second chance perks to waste your time.
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Survivors when you play the killer: Pretty common
Survivors when you play Survivor: Pretty much none
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It deactivates if I do anything productive for a millisecond. Not an issue if I'm being tunneled right off the hook. But if 15 seconds go by, I'm still not in a chase, and I start to heal myself for a second, DS is gone. And if the killer decides to chase me then, I have a useless perk. It's easy to get caught up in a situation where you're trying to preserve DS and then end up being really inefficient.
Plus, 60 seconds isn't that long. Functionally, it's more like a 30 second anti-tunnel window. I have to be in a pretty bad spot to go down in 30-45 seconds. I can go down intentionally or jump in a locker to force DS, but there's risk with that. You can get an unlucky 11 o'clock DS and miss it. It happens. I've seen players on Eternal and Elysium miss DS. Not saying it happens a lot, but killers have to remember that they're not noticing the DS's people miss
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It’s just more proof that tunneling doesn’t really happen all that much, or else you would see DS, OTR AND Babysitter way more.
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DS just got nerfed down to the point of being useless. It's highly conditional in its application, and then people got mad that in the very specific situation for which it is designed, it was a bit of a pain to deal with.
So rather than telling people to not tunnel, they just nerfed DS.
Why pick a perk that only works under one uncommon situation (Keep in mind, the killer needs to not just be tunnelling, they need ot be tunnelling you, specifically), and then isn't even allowed to be good in that one situation?
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Well to start my statement was "probably wont" not "cannot." but moving on.
This is under the assumption that you are getting tunneled when 4 gens are done but are lucky enough to get picked up before the 5th gen pops. Which is a pretty specific scenario.
Usually you're getting tunneled out much earlier than that, and your solo queue teammates are going to lack the communication and coordination to effectively do anything about the tunneling. In which case you're not getting out or buying much time for your team as they likely wasted time trying to save you.
We can go through a list of every hyper specific set of circumstances where DS will absolutely get you out, or we can accept the fact that if you're a solo queue survivor getting tunneled then DS isn't that helpful.3 -
Yeah, I do think the window is a little short compared to OtR. Maybe it could do with an increase? Idk.
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I’m still running it every game since 2020 and it has saved my and my teams bottom countless of times. Like someone else here said, it can turn a guaranteed 3k into a 1k if you can bait the killer into chasing you again after getting unhooked and if you also have DH, the killer will almost certainly lose that match. It’s still a really good perk, you just have to know now when to force it and when NOT to.
I also like the mindgame of trying to force a grab through slow/medium vaults when you only have seconds of DS left and the killer knows it too so they try to avoid it1 -
I don't see it.
I feel it…
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Not you, but maybe your team.
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The perk was too strong. Doing anything in the face of the killer and getting away with it for free was not healthy for the game. I think it should have stayed at 5 seconds.
Favorably it could be added to the survivors basekit, to reduce the pay to win aspect that still annoys me greatly. This would have to come with compensation to the killer role of course.
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Oh, I'm not talking about the conspic action nerf. That was absolutely required. But the fact the stun duration then got tampered with, initially getting gutted for no reason, then reverted two years later only to get kneecapped -again- shortly after… That was the bit that was completely unnecessary.
It should've stayed at 5 seconds, or even increased.
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I think 5 seconds was fine tbh.
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No way increase the stun duration. I'm assuming you didn't play killer when the DS stun duration was bugged and some killers had an almost 6 second stun, it was absolutely unbearable.
The problem is as it always has been, 4 seconds stun is perfectly fine against a Legion if you're downed in a decent area. But it's nothing against a Blight or Nurse.
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I don't think killers would necessarily have to be compensated. The whole point is that tunneling is currently too rewarding for too little risk, and it ruins games for the players who aren't being tunneled. Players shouldn't be able to do it and get rewarded with this level of consistency. I would be fine with 1 or 2 randomly assigned DS's each trial, and keep the conspicuous action condition. It wouldn't stop me from playing killer at all.
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I'm going to contest this point.
You said nerfed to uselessness. I was around pre-6.1.0 when it did have deactivation conditions (just didn't have the Conspicuous Action umbrella term), and that perk was almost ubiquitous.
The only difference between now (regarding the perk itself) is that it has a 1 sec shorter stun. 4 seconds is not useless. And if you bring up the likes of Nurse, then quite frankly, 5 wasn't enough against them, but that's a killer specific issue.
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well you see it all started when the DSi came out, which made it everyones primary pick. Then the 3DS came out and people went bonkers over that! And then they kept improving on the 3DS until eventually they just made the Nintendo Switch...
In all seriousness its about consistency. DS not only has a less likelyhood of activating, but also may not net you much distance against certain killers than OtR would give you. OtR also had the added bonus of making you silent and prevents aura reading.
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It could be that DS sucked for a long time, so that reputation is still lingering. Casuals might not even know it's been buffed.
Not to mention that a lot of newer survivor players might not even have the perk.
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I'm mostly a killer main and realistically I never see DS because I don't tunnel. I very rarely look at a survivors perks either so I wouldn't know how prevalent it is to begin with based on my experience alone.
I do find it a bit funny and sad at the same time that people dedicate 1 to 2 perks, sometimes 4 or 3 just to combat tunneling, only for it to be mostly useless. If I end up downing a person that is recently unhooked, then I usually leave them slugged for the sake of going after another person. Anti-tunneling perks exist solely to counter toxic or efficient gameplay, not fair gameplay.
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DS is literally used in pair with OTR, and even after conspicuous actions introduced, that duo is one of the strongest in the game.
And how bad do you actually use it when you get only 8s of benefit lol
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It was never meant to save you. It is meant to buy your team a little more time when you are tunneled.
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I mean all you have to do is not tunnel, and you won't be affected by either of those things, also in regards to being bad when using DS, idk ask my teammates who i have seen use it and then go down instantly
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have you ever seen a proper aggressive use of DS? "Just don't tunnel" argument for anti-tunneling perks is so 2020., they are literally meta at all skill levels, even at those where tunneling is barely present due to power of their aggressive usage.
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Do you mean by the person with DS bodyblocking? Plenty of times, still doesn't mean i think the perk is that good anymore
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if you have good map awareness and know where to lead your chases, this perk is S-tier.
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Since the time nerf and DS doesnt effect high mmr killers like Nurse and Blight, Peanits also confirming they dont want DS to disable killers powers temporarily PEOPLE GAVE UP ON IT
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between OTR , babysitter and mostly jills perks . DS is not that enticing. Jills perk is my replacement as i can heal of hook in like 3 seconds so i find it better than DS .
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The thing is that DS, after getting the deactivation conditions, became a very specific perk. It only works under one specific circumstance, with the killer having full control over said circumstance.
With such a situational perk, it needs to have an impactful effect as a trade-off. This worked for 5 seconds. It didn't work for 3 seconds, and it's still not working for 4. That one second nerf might not look like much, but with the drop animation taking 2 seconds, it only bought you three seconds of distance before, and after the nerf, it's down to two seconds of distance.
That's a 33% cut. It's simply not enough to justify bringing if it's going to be 'fair' on most killers, and useless against some killers, while also being very conditional.
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That's why I keep half-joke half-serious advocating for a 30s Killer/ 27-30s Survivor stun (plus or minus 10-20s for both sides together). It would literally be more valuable as a 15s Killer stun and 14s Survivor stun (with 1s of distance) than 4s Killer stun and 2s Survivor stun (with 2s of distance) in most cases.
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it worked for 3s against almost every killer if you knew where to force a down. All that was needed was "disable killer power" for like 5-10s because of Nurse and Blight, which would make it work against them too, but instead...we got 5s DS first, that was impossible to deal with as 95% of killer roster, after shich it was nerfed to 4s.
Again, thinking 3s is not enough against most of the killers is a pure sign you are not familiar with what forcing a down at specific spot means
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Okay but what if the killer doesn't tunnel?
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we got 5s DS first, that was impossible to deal with as 95% of killer roster
95% of the killer roster automatically press spacebar?
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I think you forget the situations, where tunneling becomes a necessary evil to punish survivors becoming too efficient for them to handle. Sure, the stronger killers rarely arrive at these situations if not for their own fault, but killers like Myers, Freddy and Trapper sometimes have to tunnel to get some pressure going. If survivors play very efficiently and safe, it is very likely for these killers to get maybe one or two hooks before the 4th gen is done. Of course, a logical decision would be to buff these killers then. Sadly I have to remind to the example of Piggy, who barely got buffed and ended up on a "watch list".
Of course, DS basekit would not make me stop playing. However, it would very much result in unfair situations becoming even more unfair if no compensation is given.
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And I'm making the point that this perk is terrible if all the killer doesn't do tunnel
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I find OTR to be more useful. It provides utility that DS doesn't and a common theme among the tunnellers I've encountered is that their chase skills are not up to par for their MMR bracket. It's like old NOED where you could always tell a Killer had NOED because they would be terrible at chase until the endgame. With the tunnellers I've seen (once again my experience) since tunnelling gives such a disproportionate and overly effective approach for minimal effort it's a crutch that carried them to a higher MMR than they should be at. The tunnellers I've seen are overall not good at locating survivors nor are they good at chasing overall. As such, 60 seconds is too limiting and it only gives a 4 second stun. 80 seconds is a better duration and, in case there is no tunnelling, the silence and protection versus aura reading is always useful in case you encounter the Killer again through simple bad luck.
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DS is in the top 10, so if you're not seeing it much, then it's probably because your MMR is low.
I see it very often, and when I watch killer streamers that have a high kill rate, I'm seeing it often there too.
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so if a survivor uses Deli to unhook themselves and force a chase while i'm actively going for their teammate, tanks a hit with OTR and eventually forces a down, killer is tunneling? Thanks for showing absolutely 0 knowledge of what aggressive usage of anti-tunneling perks is.
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95% of killer roster being put into absolute lose-lose situation against anti-tunneling builds, no matter what they do. But looks like this is like nuclear physics for an average "just don't tunnel" people watching at anti-tunneling perks from such a b&w perspective
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Why would the killer be required to go for the person that used Deliverance? Half the time deliverance is used the killer is already patrolling gens and found another target. You keep saying "aggressive use" of anti- tunneling. If a killer isn't gonna tunnel they aren't gonna tunnel
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