Dredge's Nightfall
Side Note- This is not directed at high MMR 2k+ hours or SWF. This is revolving around solo queuing. Majority of the players are not as skilled/knowledgeable as "high MMR survivors" nor are they as coordinated. Please, keep the "ego-comments" to a minimum as I am looking for genuine input that contributes to the Discussion.
The maps are already dark enough(I don't use filters/reshades). I like the darker aesthetics of the game and it adds to the spooky side of things. Although when Nightfall hits you, it is like experiencing glaucoma with 2 inches of visible screen. Even then with the little vision that remains, it's very difficult to see what is around.
Especially since you stick out like a sore thumb. Many times I thought I was hidden or behind a wall on the outside of the map. Turns out I was actually on the inside or out in plane view for Dredge.
With how easy it is for Dredge to build up the Nightfall meter. It's not fun or engaging to consistently end up in Nightfall during a trial.
I am by far not saying Nightfall should be removed. I do like the spookiness of it. Although I find it lasts to long. Sitting around for 60 seconds twiddling your thumbs. Oh just do gens, ya nearly every time that gets me chased I run into things and then downed.
My two cents… Also numbers are just placeholders:
-Nightfall could be used to temporarily put a survivor into darkness while chasing. Limiting their view for 5 +/-seconds. Forcing them away form loops.
OR
-Nightfall could take up only a portion of the map forcing survivors out of the darkness. If they are in the darkness for too long. The survivors aura can be revealed within a 20-30m range. This would put pressure on gens. If survivors three gen themselves it would be very difficult. Can make it so gens have higher chance of getting skill checks… make them faster perhaps and smaller. Could even remove great skill checks and only smaller good skill checks.
OR
-Nightfall could be the same as it is for 60 seconds but a unique totem spawns randomly in the map. Having the aura be invisible to survivors for the first 5-10 seconds. After 10 seconds the radius at which the aura is revealed will gradually increase from 10-30m over the course of (I don't know) 10-20 seconds.
In my opinion this would give survivors the ability to counter Dredges Nightfall. Instead of being forced do endure it with little to no counterplay.
OR
-Nightfall could just be lowered to 30-45 seconds.
OR
-During nightfall survivors are only highlighted when moving or doing an action(healing, gens, etc…). I can already tell many wont like this lol.
Basically I just think there are a dozen other more engaging ways Dredge's Nightfall could of been designed. I am saying nothing to the locker teleporting or the anti-looping stuff. I think those are fine. It's just Nightfall that is absolutely a nightmare to face. Don't get me wrong I love the concept and the spookiness of it but after it's spammed non-stop in a trial it gets tiresome. You have little control over the solo queue RNG so generally speaking Dredge is not fun to verse without a team.
Just so many ways to make Nightfall more engaging and a fun challenge. Instead of making me wonder if my monitor just died.
Discussion is open to your ideas and maybe you have a better idea or something that improves upon what I've already talked about.
Comments
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Dredge just got buffed. there is no chance any of these ideas would ever happen. they are not going redesign nightfall. at worst case scenario, they will tune down the numbers of Dredge to their previous iteration if enough survivor complain about said power. That is how BVHR generally handles complaints.
i don't see anything wrong with dredge's nightfall.
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Please let killers just have unique stuff. I understand "solo bad" but nightfall doesn't affect it any more than grouped players. You can still see auras. Run ultra meta perk Windows of Opportunity and you won't have any problems with it.
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Generally speaking I don't think most people hate Nightfall. Although there are plenty of complaints regarding it. Not because the concept is bad but the reduce vision is tiresome or annoying after awhile.
Your concept of how companies deal with complaints is wishful thinking. The top 10% in most games dictate nerfs/buffs. Usually only when a "content-creator(s)" complains and has a influential following with said company. Then and only then do things sometimes happen. Rarely do they actually listen to the majority of their playerbase.
Why did I post this despite the majority of players generally speaking will never have their ideas heard? Same concept as you thinking a company would actually listen to the complaint, wishful thinking. Also maybe it felt a bit therapeutic lol.
At the end of the trial you have the option to express how much fun you had. Most players who verse Dredge and experience Nightfall… I wouldn't be surprised if the statistics show*(edited grammar) the "fun-ratio" is 2 on average. Although how do the Devs determine what wasn't fun? Was it the locker teleporting??? Was it Nightfall or the anti-looping ability??? Is it the terror radius or the sound of it? Maybe the server was just laggy and wasn't fun? It's a neat feature but generally speaking it's pretty useless to solving the actual problem.
Glad you don't see an issue with Nightfall, but I do and I see others clearly are not having a good time with Nightfall. Nearly all the complaints I've seen have to do with the visual reduction. Majority of players don't have issues with Nightfall itself. Although it makes it hard to see and for some either it hurts the eyes or becomes annoying after 3+ times. I'm not saying you are a Nea main but crouching and hiding for 60 seconds is the kind of gameplay loop Nea-crouching around the map players would find "a-o-kay".
I'd rather just die in chase even if it lasts 10 seconds. Those 10 seconds are 1000x more enjoyable than sitting behind a wall waiting for 60 seconds mate.
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No one is saying to get rid of it. I like Nightfall in concept but the lack of vision genuinely is tiresome and hurts the eyes after awhile. Acting like I just bannished Killers from having unique abilities lol. edit: added in after… I love the spookiness of Nightfall but seriously after awhile my eyes just give up trying to focus.
Secondly, ya generally speak SWF will always have an advantage. SWF have communication and that can make the world of difference. So it does affect solo players differently. As for WoO… not everyone runs meta perks. I enjoy trying new perks and making my own custom builds instead of worrying about meta. Not every build has room for WoO but sometimes I run it for looping/chase idea builds.
Limiting the options to… You must run WoO is not a good argument and only furthers the reason why it's unfortunate certain complaints are not taken more seriously.
Post edited by Sow on1 -
the main theme of the killer is to reduce visibility. that is core concept of the killer. they will not remove core concept of the killer although they strangely did remove clown's pink gas visibility mechanic but that is likely because clown core concept is speed and not reduced visibility.
I'm not saying you are a Nea main but crouching and hiding for 60 seconds is the kind of gameplay loop Nea-crouching around the map players would find "a-o-kay".
There is no hiding in nightfall. the dredge gains 16 meter of killer instinct whenever he teleport to a locker and cooldown is significantly reduced for teleporting. your suppose to work on generators while in nightfall. the only form of defence that you get in nightfall is that you can lock lockers a single time to delay dredge when coming out of a locker.
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Most people's response to Nightfall is to hide though. Majority of players immediately get off gens and even if I do gens I just have a really bad luck of getting specifically targeted by the Killer. Being on second hook during Nightfall with no safe lockers doesn't exactly scream do gens lol.
Plus, it's a bit humorous/frustrating but I often see the survivors locking every locker they come across at the very start of a trial. Instead of saving the more important ones for later. By the time you are on the 2-3 Nightfall many lockers are just toast with no locks.
Just find it funny how people defend Killers so adamantly. Yes Killers always have the advantage as they should but as of late their advantages have been designed too much around removing any form of counter play for survivors. His theme being to reduce visibility isn't a great explanation.
Why does Skull Merchant do what she does… cause that's her theme. You have zero counter argument to why Nightfall is annoying to deal with and why I see many survivors killing themselves on hook or straight up DC. Majority of complaints I read are not hating on the theme but hating on how much of the screen is covered.
You telling me if BHVR reduced how much of the screen was covered in darkness by 30-50% less. Even reducing the time Nightfall is down to 30-45 seconds… You seriously telling me that wouldn't be a fair change? I am having a tough time understanding how you are defending Nightfall and how much of the screen is being taken up. I really don't get what is your counter-argument that says Nightfall is actually great the way it is. All I see is it's the theme and just do lockers. What does that have to do with the glaucoma simulator spawned on my screen for 60 seconds? Great I did a gen and let's hope when I'm chased I don't… Oh ya I ran into a wall cause I can't see anything. clapping WOO this is thrilling gameplay mechanics! I'm sorry most of us who like to "not" have are screens go night-mode… simply don't understand the concept of fun. We are just Killer-buzzkills.
It's a cool theme to darken the vision. I like the concept but I hate the application and it's clear I'm not the only one fed up with this.
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I don‘t have any problems with nightfall and I do not really like your suggestions.
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You don't have any problems dealing/surviving with nightfall or you don't have any problems how it's designed? Just curious.
EDIT: Also it's cool if you don't like my ideas they are your opinions after all mate. Although I fail to see how you not liking my ideas contributes to the discussion other than to simply throw your two cents in to be heard lol.
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Both. When I know he is chasing I do gens otherwise I hide and when he chases me it is manageable even tho it can be tricky. He still glows in nightfall as long as that doesn‘t change, there ain’t really a problem for me. But it would be funny if he wouldn‘t glow.
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I do appreciate him glowing and I do my best in those trials but after the 3rd nightfall my eyes just say screw it. My ADHD brain legitimately has a limit when dealing with Nightfall. After a few times my brain just shuts off and I zone out while running into things lol.
I like the theme I really do but the narrow vision and how dark every thing is, makes focusing a chore. I don't find it fun feeling like I gotta shove my face to my monitor to see anything. Seriously if Nightfall was reduced 30% of it's screen coverage. I wouldn't even care about the timer. It's genuinely just how dark the screen gets. Even when I look to see if others are having issues with this. It's the same as me. The theme itself is not bad but the screen part is just annoying after awhile.
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sounds like health issue. BVHR does to some degree attempt accommodate health issues such as hearing impaired but they can't exclusively make changes around killers involving health issues. they cannot make a box option box for dredge where it lower nightfall darkness for ADHD because player without ADHD would use it for competitive advantage.
Side Note- This is not directed at high MMR 2k+ hours or SWF. This is revolving around solo queuing. Majority of the players are not as skilled/knowledgeable as "high MMR survivors" nor are they as coordinated.
BVHR strictly has no reason to balance around you. if anything, BVHR should be balanced around +2k hour/SWF because those are player that play the game optimally. if your unable to play the game optimally, you should be accepting losses due insufficient skill/inability to play the game. BVHR balancing around you makes killer unable to play vs proper players just so YOU can have fun. It is design idea that i have never really agree with. punishing higher skilled player for sake of worse players that can become better.
Why does Skull Merchant do what she does… cause that's her theme.
why I see many survivors killing themselves on hook or straight up DC. Majority of complaints I read are not hating on the theme but hating on how much of the screen is covered.
The logic above applies to her as well. I also don't agree with practice that BVHR uses D/C as ways to change killers because it rewards survivor to d/c over and over because the end result is them getting their way.
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Cant say ive had any troubles with nightfall as the killer sticks out just as much as the survivor. I may be wrong but its almost like most of the maps have increased in visibility as its like distance fog graphics has been removed (can see across the whole map now.) I also never found the game dark except back in the day when claudette could sit in a dark corner and be 95% invisible lol maybe increasing brightness on the screen or game can help if its too dark to see. As for nightfall's effect on solo que, its about slightly less effective as oni's rage enraged mode as nobody knows where hes coming from orif he knows where they are, so i wouldnt say its problematic. If anything what he needed were buffs to chasing people which he kinda got from all the cooldown buffs
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EDIT* I had an image and my explanation for why I don't like aspects of nightfall but honestly I'm to tired and don't care enough to argue about opinions. So this is my final part to this redundant back and forth.
If you find the experience to be fine; which in no way did anyone say it was fun or engaging, right. Nobody said it was fun or engaging gameplay… Just I think it's fine so ya.
This feedback/discussion was about how I think Nightfall could be made more engaging and fun. You don't agree with it cool; move on. It's not a statement, it's an opinion. No need to get all upset/defensive like I've commit a sin against you.
I've mentioned others find aspects of Nightfall not fun. I mention ADHD once and all of a sudden… BHVR isn't changing just for you kind of garbage commentary. Mate It's clear all you people want is to be internet trolls or you love to feed of redundant banter.
My brightness is fine. Although if I turn it up then everything blends and becomes over saturated. Again this isn't a help me discussion. I'm not looking for your help or care if you are "fine" with Nightfall. Rather it was to see if others had cool and engaging ideas that would make versing Dredge(Nightfall) more fun.
It's like having chocolate cake without the icing on top. It's technically still edible and fine. Although feels like something, Oh I don't know, maybe just maybe icing could make it taste way better. Then there is that person in the background who says… I think it's fine just the way it is… no need for icing. Like, cool bruh happy for ya! Now back to the topic at hand. What kind of icing can we put to make the cake taste better. Not every flavour is loved by someone. Hence I thought of many OR's to see what others might like or wish to alter and improve upon.
Great quote I think is: "If you have nothing good to contribute to the conversation, just don't say anything." If you have nothing to add towards the idea of making Dredge more enjoyable to verse. Specifically the Nightfall aspect. Then just move on mate. Nothing to see here.
Post edited by Sow on0 -
also I never expected BHVR to change something for me, please don't play that petty card. It completely down plays and ignores how others are not enjoying Nightfall either (without ADHD).
Their reason for not enjoying nightfall is not same reason why you don't enjoy nightfall. their reason might be that they don't like losing to dredge.
It's just not fun. Is it manageable and can survivors hide or avoid getting hooked/hit, yeah like you guys say you can manage just 'fine'.
Most player that have talked about nightfall have often praised BVHR for a killer like dredge because dredge is great example of bringing horror back to dbd. The boogey man, the low visibility, the unpredictable are all iconic horror tropes. So in contrast, Nightfall is greatly liked more so then hated.
that doesn't mean it's fun to play against or an engaging mechanic that adds depth to the game.
Disagree. it adds depth to the game in the form of ignoring visibility cues and working off map memory where you sort of need to know what the map looks like internally to navigate in nightfall. For new players, it is very newbie stompy mechanic because they already don't understand the map layout with full visibility so no visibility might as well just be playing the game in ultra-hard mode but for veterans, it is interesting twist to the game. The very popular perk Window of Opportunity sort of takes away immersion factor of nightfall and cheats it but oh well.
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I think we just agree to disagree.
Newbie stompy is not extended to just new players. There are plenty of casual players who enjoy the game and it stomps them too. Although we could categorise anyone who isn't fully knowledgeable a newb lol.
As for most praising Nightfall I am sure, in minority groups they do. Nearly every forum even when I search for "positive" results have complaint revolving around visibility and sometimes the engagement of Nightfall. So maybe you heard your favourite streamers praise this or friends etc… Although I am hard pressed to find the "majority" praising Nightfall. The top 20% of players is not the 'majority'.
I've played EFT then the Hardcore vets wanted it to be even harder cause they didn't find the realism as challenging anymore. Path of Exile… same thing where if you aren't a self-proclaimed masochist then you must be a casual noob. I have over 1k+ hours in that game and still I am considered a casual noob cause I don't enjoy hardcore. In PoE they wanted it to be even harder. Both got what they wanted. Although it only further isolated the top percenters from the majority of players. In fact when Nerfs were made or aspects of the game were made more difficult to suite/punish the "more knowledgeable veterans" the vast majority of the community began to suffer far more for it.
I've never agreed with designing a game around the top 10%. I've simply see it time and time again ruin a game. All for the sake of "making things more challenging". Basically Dredge is fun for you because it adds depth and challenge to your veteran level of knowledge. Although for the more casual(hundreds to thousands of hours)/newer players they basically suffer more for your ability to have a slightly more engaging match.
When I'm simply arguing maybe there is a way Dredge could be made to be more engaging and fun in Nightfall for the majority (vets included). Your arguments literally are in favour of the veteran players but I am arguing for the vets, casual and new players alike. Nearly every single god damn forum I have see or post about Nightfall(reddit for example). Literally is chill with the concept of Nightfall. No one is complaining about the theme or the concept of Dredge. It's mainly about the visibility being an issue. I am simply arguing maybe other things can be added to spicy things up and make it more fun and engaging for everyone.
I don't understand what is difficult to understand about this. I don't want to detract from your enjoyment but I don't understand why your enjoyment requires others to not have fun.
EDIT* My early post may appear altered because I wasn't done editing it prior to you responding. Plus I found my earlier post a bit toxic and maybe still could change a few things but this going in circles is getting a bit frustrating. So if something seems off just mention the difference no problem. I just don't care to go in loops mate. We clearly don't agree and that's cool but it's back and forth and it's going no where lol. My initial idea for this feedback was to simply give my ideas and maybe others would be like oh ya you know what I think this would be a cool concept. Friendly and fun ideas being exchanged. My intention wasn't to start bloody WW3 lmao.
POST EDIT* lol I want to add for some clarification. SO you don't think I'm just thinking all KILLERS NEED NERFS! I actually think Dredge subtract Nightfall is weak and could/perhaps deserves a buff in that department. Outside of Nightfall Dredge is not hard to deal with, I can agree with others on this if they do to. I just clearly see I am not the only one who has a bit of a grippe with how the screen is affected.
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Well I can understand you, but running into things and having a worse vision is honestly the whole point of this ability. Shure you get some other advantages like faster tp, but I mainly play him for the darkness.
About it making the maps darker, it does not. Nightfall only reduce how far you can look and doesn‘t make anything darker even tho the black wall looks like it.
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Again going in circles. Mate agree to disagree. Simple and done. Move on. Cause this will never go anywhere. It's a literal bloody round about. Already covered and I already pointed out my counter argument to what you've said a few other times.
Most complaints around Nightfall is the screen coverage and how hard it can be to see. Not saying it's the worst thing ever but it's clearly annoying to enough people that it's the number one complaint I've seen on nearly every god damn post/forum about Nightfall lol. Then you say well it "actually isn't" like that just somehow solves everything. Wow the best counter argument. Mate, you say Nightfall reduces how far you can look and others say they can see far. Y'all can't make a conclusive point to save your argument. Now it's not actually dark… lmao.
I've clearly stated what the purpose of this feedback was.
Mate you gotta be a troll. Cause this can't be real. No way you are actually serious lol. Of course you play him. I was wondering why are these guys so bloody defensive lol. Although it's all making perfect sense now. Enough said man lmao have fun cause you just decimated your whole argument. How? It's call bias. As a someone who plays Dredge and specifically for that Nightfall aspect. Of course you aren't going to favour someone saying something against it. If you don't understand that concept then I'm truly sorry I can't help you. 😅
EDIT* Hope this helps but mate just for the sake off puns and just to end this on a bit of fun. "Stop the chase cause you trippin over pallets, face planting into windows." 👻
POST EDIT* Funny enough I versed another Dredge and I think I have the perfect screenshots to show you why either you are using a Filter/shader whatever or your brightness is really high "or something". This is my vision during Nightfall. Spooky and really cool by design but this for 60 seconds every other minute gets tiresome. Oh and that person on hook killed themselves on purpose and then we got 3 downed cause Killer decided to slug. Also if you can notice not a single gen is done. Solo queue is totally the "same" as SWF lol. In most SWF I guarantee you would see at minimum 2-3 gens already done or almost done. What's the term they use, oh ya… "stop the cap!" Go ahead tell me this is "fine".
Side note really ironic that the first time I try out Hyperfocus I get a dredge. Just my luck lol.
Post edited by Sow on0 -
You can play something and still give feedback, shure I‘m a bit biased, but not in a super you can‘t talk to me and I ignore everything way. I play a lot of survivor since killer has ages of que time.
Your screenshots actually looks very bad and either I actually have higher brightness settings or I just don‘t have a problem with it. I honestly forgot that it makes the outer part of the screen completely black, but what I meant was that it doesn‘t make everything darker just reduces the range you can look. The inner part is probably still as bright as it normally would be, but please correct me if I’m wrong. It still doesn‘t make it darker, but gives you additionally a very small field of view (sorry for forgetting this part), which I can agree with you might be a bit too small.
Stop the chase cause you trippin over pallets, face planting into windows
No idea what that is supposed to mean?
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In think you play generally with too dark settings
Post edited by Langweilg on1 -
I'm using (EDIT* Sorry I'm using default brightness) and my vibrancy is above average a bit for NVIDIA. I thought my brightness was a bit higher. Naturally I increase the contrast cause the base settings of a PC are a flat dull colour. I'm using default settings in DBD. Technically, I'm using near default settings and the game's darkness is from my understanding how the game is meant to be played. Serious if I turn the brightness to far up you wont be able to see the box around "All Channels" and the slide bar is already barely visible.
The reason I don't increase brightness or other settings too much as I said it makes the browser and most tabs blend together and simply unpleasant to look at. Although DBD was meant to be aesthetically more dark. I'll include screenshots below to show you what my average game looks like. 😎
As for the pun comment. It really is just friendly banter. Mate I'm so used to the CSGO banter from the older days that part of my brain was waiting for you to make a punny comment back at me lmao. Feel free to hit me with one though.
I get what you mean by dark now… Cause on RPD it's not as dark and it's manageable to see. Although I don't know if this is an addon or feature but in chase I couldn't see dredge's outline(greyscale aura). Although on other maps that are naturally darker… Like the foresty/junkyard like maps. It's an absolute nightmare to verse Dredge.
This is where I thought a 30% reduction in the outer side of darkness would be not so bad. Maybe even lower, closer to 15-20% reduction. Keeping the darkness effect but on some maps (I wish I took a screen shot) it's genuinely so dark it feels like that cone of vision is drastically smaller. I probably should of posted screenshots with the original post to clear up confusion. I'll do that in the future.
Images of normal trials EDIT (this is non dredge/nightfall what my trials normally look like for reference on different maps):
Me rifting for a fashionable spirit.
Nemesis may of been mad I made him kill one of his zombies he-he
This is what happens when you get 2 other random sables and a chucky… This was solo queue by the way haha.
I felt like I was on top of the world in this one.
Trickster unaware I was behind him 🤣 selfie After this I got to choose my mori spot 😏 Died fashionably haha. Lowkey didn't see the Nicolas Cage in the background but now that I see him it actually looks cool.
Overall basically this is how my game generally looks. I wish I started taking screenshots sooner but sometimes you just can't cause chase. Although hope you found some humour in the screenshots and that they help you see where I am coming from.
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The only thing for this is that I genuinely don't want to detract from the darker theme of DBD by increasing the brightness simply to have a better time on Dredge. I'll most definitely just have to tough it out, ya know. :P
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I kinda like idea to increase base brightness (so survivors can see little bit better), but go back to dark version while in chase (maybe let it linger when chase ends)
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People already use reshaders and enhance the game via their computers brightness. Just add those two image brightness things games use. When the left image is barely visible… Ya know what I mean lol. Then players can either do what they probably already 'are' doing or they can just opt into playing the game as intended.
I just refuse to change the game files for graphics and install reshaders. Although it's been unofficially accepted. Technically if you do get banned for whatever unlucky reason, BHVR will not help you. Despite how unheard of and ridiculously improbable it is. There is always that one dude who rolls a bad hand. It's like you use stuff for 3 years but something changes in an update to the anti-cheat and just so happens to start banning reshaders… Call me paranoid but I'd rather not risk it lol.
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