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So much outrage
There is alot of outrage surrounding this update, 90% of it being around the gutting of skull merchant (Which I think are awful changes) but what I do want to talk about is, how will the Devs respond? and also is this the most outrage that has come from an update? (why was bloodrush nerfed, what)
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The most outrage? No. I think 1.9.2 is still the champion.
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There’s outrage every chapter because people like to nitpick hypotheticals that don’t exist. Remember Blood Rush in PTB? Good times.
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I read over it, whats the outrage?
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Meanwhile I'm here fuming over Lucky Star and Zanshin Tactics lol
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I remember bloodrush :(
I think these are bad skull merchant changes, don't get me wrong, but I think an equally as bad crime is what they are doing to blood rush, making it an Anti-Tunnel takes the fun out of it :(
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They need to address it even before the PTB. They can't let some of these changes go live.
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Twins release patch is still the worst, because the game was the most broken it has ever been, and they knew it and still released it anyway.
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honestly the outrage is from a small amount of people there’s more skull merchant and twins haters than enjoyers
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I am mad at the skull merchant changes don't get me wrong, but ive never seen this much mass outrage.
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That's because this is a game where skill expression is extremely low, almost touching the floor. This game is basically a giant knowledge check. There isn't much skill involved in either side doing anything they do, the question is just "do i know more than you" when you are going against someone.
Thus, because mechanical skill is nearly at the floor, it is very easy to know how something will play out in this game just knowing the changes without even testing them.
There are obviously exceptions to this for sure, but this is just a general rule.
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Well To be fair, based on the patch notes, I don't think anyone expected that twins would be that powerful. I mean people expected they would be powerful, but never to the extent that it put nurse in second place.
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id argue killers like spirit, and huntress take skill, along with dead hard, but you do make a good point on skill expression
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There were more complaints when Bloodrush was shown off for the first time when compared to this update. People thought it was going to break the game. The outrage was intense. Then we all realised it was crap, and immediately forgot it existed lmao.
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I'm not talking about in terms of balance, i'm talking about the game was literally bugged beyond belief and literally unplayable.
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So many aura reading perks/add-ons out there. Why the change to distortion? It's a perk that has to take up another perk slot…so the killer has to add something to counter it. Seems pretty balanced, both from a player and killer standpoint (I am about 50/50 killer/player). I've been in matches when I destroyed the distortion tokens in under a minute. I've been in matches when all 3 tokens go away and never able to regain them (stealth killers). The ONLY thing I would change on Distortion: Keep it token based, but make the tokens replenish during chase, not terror radius. Other options for Distortion tokens to replenish: finish a generator, unhook a survivor, enter a chase.
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The flashlight / pallet saves:
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Keep an eye on the accounts that have thousands of posts. If they are out in force complaining, something is terribly wrong. If not, then things are mostly fine.
You must be super new to the community. People complain every time changes are prosposed. These complaints are nothing compared to previous updates. This forum is used primarily as a place to vent after losing a match, or going too far with theory crafting based on numbers and speculation. So the place is usually 90% angry complaints and 10% other stuff. This is very normal.
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If skull merchant is getting qutted I imagine 90% playerbase would thank devs for that. She is the most disliked killer so lot of people are gonna be happy.
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I do think SM will absolutely get post PTB changes, don't get me wrong, I do hope its something that sounds bad on paper, but is really in fact balanced in game, but they haven't done straight up nerfs with no buffs for a really long time. Even with Trickster they gave buffs to many nerfs, but this is just several major nerfs.
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The changes are probably getting tweaked, that being said this forum is a killer-sided echo chamber, not to mention some people make multiple threads about the same topic and most of the threads have the same people in them.
It's hardly a mass outrage. Most people are probably happy.
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The problem with the SM changes are that they don't deal with the things that make players give up. It's the same thing with the Trickster rework. They made him stronger, but kept all the things survivors hated intact. Her spammable zone control is what makes her frustrating to play against. So even though she is weaker, she's still gonna be tedious to go against.
People are right to take issue with the changes. They are not well targeted.
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I wish there was a fun way to do counterplay for skully, I think there isn't a single SM player that thought the haste was balanced, but what people are angry about is the hindered.
If they do something cool like, rotating drones resets Scan buffers, than that would solve alot of issues. These changes are just flat out nerfs while not touching anything that made her problematic.
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What outage?
To be honest, Skull Merchant players should be extremely grateful that BHVR offered an olive branch by compromising to keep her in the game in spite of the entire player base asking for her to be deleted entirely.
I'm sure the optics weren't great either for Kris Jenner who seemed to have lent her image for use in the game.
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They aren't going to remove a killer, excluding licensing issues, they will never remove a killer. Saying they should be grateful for not getting removed is very callous, and the only one who calls are just Survivor mains (I hate using that term but it is accurate) I play alot of survivor and don't get me wrong, skull merchant is very oppressive to play against, but this guts her power, without addressing her issues which is the worst case solution.
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You should be GREATFUL that they didn't delete the content you paid for!!!
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Unfortunately no matter what BHVR has done to try to address her issues, players are simply unwilling to accept her in the game and that might be tough for SM mains to hear, but I'm sure you knew the free DC wins were going to dry up eventually.
With how unlikeable she is, you either gut her entirely or you delete her from the game — there is no in-between. Her reputation is permanently tarnished and irreparably damaging to the DBD brand at this point. Luckily there are many other killers for people to learn to main and new ones are continuously made available.
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Again, they aren't gonna delete a killer from the game for balance reasons. They need to completely give her a new kit, the premise of using drones to survey the area is interesting, but current reworks have failed to solve her issues.
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This update is rather good when we look back to some older updates and every update has something that goes nerfed and some players hate this nerf.
The Skull Merchant nerfs are really bad and too much. She is actually a rather weak killer but due to all the give ups and dc she has such a high killrate. Players hate her for beeing Skull Merchant and not something else. The others have an outrage due to the Distortion nerf even though it was kinda obvious that this perk will get a rather hard nerf because it is unhealthy for both sides. Thus, these players always make an outrage when it comes to aura perks that are rather healthy for the game.
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And that's why I'm saying this is an olive branch. Honestly, it is entirely possible that people will continue to DC against her even after these changes since people still strongly dislike her. I've seen many matches where everyone DCs to force her to play against a full team of bots just to waste her time as punishment for wasting 4 peoples time. And rightfully so.
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Like i said, there are exceptions. But now compare even the most "technically" challenging things in this game to pretty much literally any other multiplayer game out there in terms of mechanical skill, and you'll see just how "easy" this game really is.
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I mean yeah, they have reworked her so much and yet every time they do it doesn't help. I feel like im going through the 5 stages of grief in a semi unironic way, I am coming around to accept it, and realize that we might need to test it in the PTB before saying anything concrete.
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The first one is just an hive mind issue, a decent rework could easily turn it around IF content creators would go into it with an open mind and ignore the portion of the community that dislikes her for her appearance/lore, but thats not gonna happen because content creators often get groomed into having stances they might not agree with otherwise, its a two way street, but im not gonna go into it to much for now cause the next part is, somehow, even further from reality.
Also she "damaged" the brand? Are you active in any other community? I'm active in R6, For Honor, Warhammer 40k and more, and you know what damaged the brand? The community, the communities i have mentioned are by themselves quite toxic but the one thing they all agree on its that it could be worse, DBD is often a negative example mentioned in those for a variety of reasons, and thats ignoring the damage BHVR did themselves by launching astoundingly buggy patches, 2v8 was buggy as all hell with broken maps and not only did they released it, they were unironically greedy and arrogant enough to do so with a free week attached to it, that damaged its brand way more by introducing new players to a unbelievable bugfest. No one who isn't quite familiar with DBD knows who Skull Merchant is, and the players who have a distinct hate for her from the 3 gen meta must be atleast in the game for around a year or talk about something they themselves have not experienced.
We also see similar instances of hive-mind behavior at play when it comes to topics such as slugging, no matter what the statistics say, a huge part of the community thinks that its a rampant issue when all numbers released contradict it, yet jump on the bandwagon, the vast majority (and i mean way over 90%, not the ones who actually run into spectacularly bad luck streaks, that happens) who tell you its happening more in 10% of their games is, is lying or delusional, the statistics released by BHVR leaves little else.
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Unfortunately for 99% of people, perception is reality. BHVR doesn't really have a way to force the community to accept her, and its not skull merchants actively bringing money into the game and keeping it operational. They have reworked her so many times now that the devs themselves are probably sick and tired of wasting their time on her. Even with reworks, she will always be actively disliked and BHVR would truly be better off reworking and adding more skins for killers that are iconic and reputable like Freddy.
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This game makes like 99% of its profits from cosmetics
there are way more scummier things about this game I feel we collectively ignore, like paying 30$ for a game that then paywalls the rest of the characters is insane for a modern game, no idea how DBD got away from it.
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She got 1 major rework in patch 7.3.0, the other one was meant to be a temporary change. The talking point about her "many" reworks is something you also just picked up from someone who didnt know what he was talking about. A perfect example of what im talking about, you could not even be bothered to check.
"Even with reworks, she will always be actively disliked…", please read my post more carefully so you dont repeat my points, otherwise we will be talking in circles.
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look man, this game brings out the worst in people, especially when it comes to nerfs and balance changes. It’s made worse with the fact it’s an asymmetric game, it was designed with a split fanbase. This game is one that’s really good at provoking people to do, or say stupid stuff. The balance in this game isn’t an easy fix, cause realistically it will never be balanced
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This is definitely not the most outrage. I have only played the game for 3 1/2 years and this doesn't even make it into the top 5. Now that I think about it, it might not even be enough for the top 10.
I think that comes with the nature of this being an asymmetrical game. So you have 2 player bases that have conflicting ideas of how to balance this game. So there will always be at least some outrage. Personally, I think some of these changes are good but there are also some that just defy all logic.
The Skull Merchant nerfs are pretty overkill and some of the perk reworks are terrible as well. I still don't get the idea behind Zanshin Tactics. Why would you want to see the aura of a survivor near a dropped pallet? You'd already know where they are and you can't really use it for a mind game either because then you'd have to look in their direction, so they would see your red stain.
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I looked her up on the Wiki and I see a wall of text full of changes across multiple versions and this upcoming one.
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I dont think anything will change tbh. The Skull merchants numbers speak against her. She still has one of the highest kill rates in the game and the Devs have already confirmed that they nerf according to numbers. That the numbers are probably inflated cause most people just instakill themselves when they see a skull merchant and that everything has a higher impact cause she has the lowest pickrate in game probably doesnt matter.
Imo she should just be reworked at this point instead of nerfed this hard.
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You failed to read again. The "rework" before 7.3.0 was a temporary change, not a rework, just like this change is also supposed to be a temporary relieve till her 2nd rework, and just so we are clear here, here is quick math.
2-1=1
Skull Merchant had one major rework, the one scheduled for 2025 is her second, this contradicts your statement which you took from someone not knowing better than basic math.
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Why address it before the PTB? The point of the PTB is to try things out, it has no impact on the live game
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Listen, I'm very sorry that this is happening to Skull Merchant, and I can tell that you are truly passionate about her which I can respect, but there's also a time to know when to give something up. It's unfortunate but it happens.
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Im not passionate about her, i did not even complain about the nerfs and said that its temporary, i would be okay with them if there was a chance of her rework turning out for the better without being ruined by petty community hostility (which is EXTREMELY unlikely unless we have a talk about this topic, i will get to it), but since you tried to apologize (even if its for something that isn't even real) i will not be patronizing for once.
What im trying to tell you is this:
The worrisome part is that content creators will rally people against her rework in 2025 no matter what it is because they groomed so many of their parrots into hating her that no matter how good and healthy for the game she could become because they are either afraid of backlash by the very hive-minded audience they are responsible for bringing into existance or groomed by their audience into being incapable of having an open mind about it.
You are an example, you tried to argue against Skull Merchant becoming healthy for the game, advocating for her deletion over subjective aspects and based on false information such her amount of reworks or the supposed damage to BHVRs brand, i know you did not come up with these lies, do you see where the problem is? You dont advocate for balance and health of the game, you tried to convince BHVR to a delete something other people like out of spite fueled by misinformation.
Do you see why its unacceptable and why content creators should seriously reconsider their approach on this topic and the community as a whole?
There is a serious conversation we need to have as a community on the negative affect of the hive-mind behavior of the community and the content creators that fuel then appease them.
Post edited by GroßusSchmiedus on0 -
her spammable zoning is reduced to 5% hindered. tier 1 bloodlust for like 5 seconds. i suspect that survivor will slowly begin to not d/c because they'll realize that… SM is free win and eventually her kill-rate will plummet, her pick-rate will be non-existent and then BVHR can figure it out how to improve her a year from now when her stats are neutral. It will probably be bringing back her haste.
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Because some of these changes are so obviously bad they should have been killed on the redesign room floor.
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I joined dbd 2 months after Twins so I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but there's no way Twins era was as catastrophic as Resident Evil.
Rpd was disabled for an entire month straight immediately upon release. Using any killer power would freeze your Game for 6 seconds. You couldn't use any Exhaustion perk, and if you were in struggle phase you'd automatically be sacrificed if the killer had Sloppy, Noed or were named Freddy or Myers
Us console players were no Exhaustion Gigachads who literally had to be playing 10 seconds into the future
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I feel like if the devs made changes so when a survivor deactivates a drone, she couldn't put one up there again for a while, that would make her much less tedious to play against. That would be a better temporary change instead of what is being proposed.
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she is already being rated as F-tier, no need to make it worse. i don't think she is true F-tier but she is not very good. likely more along lines of C-tier killer.
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I remember when people complained that the original PTB version of Any Means Necessary would break the game.
To be fair, you could infinitely stun a cloaked wraith with that perk on the PTB, but that was the only part of it that was ever busted.
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I don't hold the view that just because a character in a game isn't great, that they should be immune from nerfs. If a character enables a miserable gameplay loop, then they should be changed.
I don't think that my idea is golden, I just think it would be better at making her less annoying when compared to what the devs are proposing.
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