Survivors aren’t left in the dying state too often this is a joke right?
players are left slugged almost every single game I’d say they’re left in the dying state a heck of a lot
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Apparently.
A follow up post was made about it too.
No matter how you feel about it, this is what the stats argue. Feels oddly close to home with killer killrates showing how Freddy is in the top 10 and Nurse is in the lower bracket, doesn't it?
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It didn't seem all that surprising to me, there isn't really noticeable slugging in most of my matches.
It's always important to be wary of confirmation bias. You're gonna remember the matches you were slugged more, because they stick out as particularly annoying ones.
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I guess it could be combination of selection bias and people complaining about slugging in situations where its justified, i went to twitch for the first time in like 4 years to watch DBD, and among the 5 streamers 3 started crying the second the Killer did not pick them up to do stuff like check for flashlights or kicking gens and keep in mind that was like 10 seconds each.
Save to say im not gonna watch DBD twitch for like another 4 years after that too, man the community is more prone to whine for minor inconveniences than i thought.
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The fact that the devs felt the need to add a disclaimer to what they said, is depressing. Any normal person could tell they were talking about overall numbers, and not saying that slugging doesn't exist. There's been so many people reacting like it's a personal attack. It's so bizzare.
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Unfortunately, this community tends to forget the overall and focus on their own experiences too often and the worst parts of their matches. Can't say I'm immune to that either, I'm sure I've made errors in thinking too. Simply just a part of being a community we need to recognize.
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A big part of it is selection bias, people remembering bad games much more strongly than they remember ordinary ones. I encounter a killer who bleeds everyone out and humps the slugs less than once every hundred matches, but I'll mald on that game more than the rest put together.
So while I distrust statements like "someone gets slugged every game" and take most of it as exaggeration… I also wouldn't be surprised if some people who are complaining about slugging every game had other factors going on. For instance, if you bring blinds or sabo, you're going to see more slugging than usual because that's part of the counterplay to your playstyle. Same if you're aggressive about finishing gens in a killer's face - if a killer downs someone nearby and you stick it out, they're going to abandon their down and go after you when normally they'd pick up the survivor. And a player who BMs will probably have a statistically above-average number of bleedouts or killers gloating over their body before they hook them.
And of course, killers like Twins, Plague, Oni, and Myers are going to slug because that's how their power is designed.
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We're all prone to reactionary thinking. Some of us just don't press SEND sometimes lmao
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Averages are a funny thing. Though, even with how averages work "only" 43% longer than 15 seconds… is still quite a lot but could be justified by killers being paranoid and checking the area every single time before they pick. — but almost a quarter being slugged for 35+ seconds? That actually is a lot. It still is almost one person every match that is left there for a way prolonged time.
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Slugging was never as common as some players think it is, to be honest.
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35 seconds combined THROUGHOUT an entire match, its really not that much, it could less than 20 seconds per down of checking/doing other important things.
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43% is still a pretty high number confirmation bias aside I find another odd aspect of the community is that this game seems to get a free pass on other things that players attack the heck out of other dev teams for
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To be fair, that number is for a TOTAL of 15 seconds across the match, not just for a single down. That's frankly really not that much, that's like, the killer stops to kick a pallet/gen or reload their power before they pick you up after each down or something.
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43% more than 15 seconds
24% more than 35 seconds
When I play killer, depending on the situation, I tend to slug.
In my book, the chance to hurt a survivor is better than hooking.
And you also have to compose with flashlights, flash-bangs, …
All this makes picking up immediately less than optimal.
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Don't forget how common it is to get a down next to a pallet or a gen. Cleaning up after the down already adds a few seconds onto that 15s timer.
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Also.
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Setting traps.
Reloading as Huntress/Deathslinger/Trickster
Placing an almost ready hallucinations.
Destroying a nearby zombie for Nemesis mutation.
Disrupting a lament configuration solve.
Destroying nearby turrets as Alien.
Shooting off a bird to check or force survivors off for Thrilling Tremors.
I'm pretty sure i missed quite a few only Killer specific interactions that could lead to some of the 15% and 35+%. I dont think slugging is nearly that bad as people claim it is, sure i have been bleed out and would like to see a solution but its not as common or pressing issue many pretend it is.
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24% more than 35 seconds would be about 1 in 4 survivors.
So basically, they're admitting that slugging for the 4k is insanely common. Not every game, to account for other slugging situations, but still an awful, awful lot.
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I think these BHVR numbers are a bit misleading, because they didn't include the rate of 2+ minutes, or full on Bleedout deaths as well. I want to know what % of people are fully bledout, especially since after hook respawn, there is 0 actual justification for it (barring an IRL fire or the likes). Also 2+ minute bleedouts are also much too common as well, and I think its more telling that they decided to leave that number out.
Well, let me be more clear. Since they left 2+ minute bleedouts out of the stats, I truly think somewhere from 51-99% of the '35+ second' are actually 2+ minute/death bleedouts. That means this post to me, is BHVR admitting to ~12%, or 1 in 8 people being bledout for minimum 2 minutes. That number is WAY too high (for greater clarity I think 5% would be unfortunate but acceptable in the current climate/no self pickups). Even their official 24% 35s+ is enough to justify a basekit self-pickup IMO.
I largely agree with the 15s match total being a non-issue though.
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Yeah, I don't think BHVR's stats are reliable. They always look at the wrong stuff, don't take other factors into account, and do confirmation bias for the complainers. Just like when they nerfed Freddy back in the day. M1 killer with weaker Clown bottles, a super choreographed teleport, and stealth with a lullaby. But because he was the Skull Merchant of back then, "He's so OP we're not even gonna try, or learn strategy" (a self-fulfilling prophecy), they just nerfed him anyway because "he had a high kill rate." And then they used the opposite logic with Nurse where she had a low kill rate, and they've given her like 3-4 nerfs, and it didn't even solve the core issues with her. She's still the top killer. So that's what balance using BHVR stats looks like.
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Lets take into account we have perks that exist for no reason other than to slug (knockout - which works more than once) and perks to counter it (unbreakable - which works once or soul guard which is situational) and we have killers that sheerly exist to slug (twins) so while the data may show 1/4 of every survivor in every game is slugged at least 35 seconds which they feel is "not a lot," if I am getting bled out in 1/4 of my games, I am not having fun. And if 4 killers running knockout and slugging till everyone bleeds out in 5 hours is "not a lot" then the devs need to play survivor in pubs more often.
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Just because you are slugged for 35+ seconds doesn't mean you bleed out by a long shot, ######### happens and adds up quickly, Killer powers are one of many reasons that could lead to some slugging
Also Knockout is and never was even remotely close to the top 10 for as long as i can remember, its pickrate is actually less than 1%.
If we assume that the the average DBD match is 15 minutes on average seeing 4 Killers using knockout in 5 hours would bring the perk in 2nd place beating Pop goes the Weasel by a signifact margin, so what you say is either a complete lie or delusional.
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Honestly, bring Boon Exponential. I massively pissed off a Spirit who was slugging for the 4k. Myself and the last survivor just kept picking ourselves up. She eventually hooked me and let hatch play out, but gave me a few good whacks on hook so I guess it was effective lol
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As a previous post said, the stats list 35 seconds or longer which would include up to bleed out. I would like to see how many people are slugged for more than 2 minutes.
And yes, I had a day with 4 killers in 5 hours using knockout - and they were all different people. So no, it is neither a lie nor a delusion. You can choose to believe me or not, I personally do not care either way. But it was on Labor day and I took a week long break from this game after that.
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I mean, the meta encourages hooking over slugging, even unbreakable, which is THE anti-slugging perk has a relatively low-pick rate, it kind of barely can be considered meta.
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slugging is pressure. The end
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Actually started running it because I hated 2 floor maps and my teamates got value, if you make sure it's around a 3 gen it can be really useful
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Especially the super sweaty killers who slug to avoid the hatch spawning.
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It is quite offensive of them to say considering so many killers slug to BM and allow bleed out. They have no concept of playing as survivor or they wanting to be disrespectful.
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Wow you are making a drama out of nothing and I agree with devs slugging isn’t common. It‘s not even too strong.
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BHVR know that when people talk about slugging as a problem we are largely talking about slugging for the 4K which happens in about 90% of matches I play as survivor. Using ‘overall statistics’ is a clear way to sideline this whilst ‘addressing concern’.
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I am not really much left on the ground as Survivor. Never, really. I cannot use all the perks that would help me in this situation.
And as I killer I do not play like this. Just if i need the 4K, I will slug second to last survivor.
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17+ seconds per down for checking on average? Nah. - I mean, I don't know how your matches go but I don't see that level of checking in even a fraction of matches.
What I do see is that the ~15 seconds can happen if you kick a gen, check around the pallet, have to walk around the tile/vault cause the surv is on the other side of sth etc pp. That's a lot of times this happens but as I said that's alright. And then I see slugging for 4k or slugging the entire team for whatever reason. - But with the numbers given there's no way to tell how often or not often this happens, rendering that tweet pretty meaningless.
As someone else mentioned; it's interesting that they chose 35 seconds as a cut-off point. That's a minimum of 35 seconds though and call me cynical but it makes me suspect it was picked to lump the long slugging in with a duration that looks somewhat acceptable.
But as always with stats; they don't actually mean a lot without proper context. And we don't have proper context here. My first impression was just that those percentages of averages (keep in mind that standard averages heavily distort the picture once there are some extremes in play) look awfully high for the argument "slugging doesn't happen a lot". Really it's probably the "on average" that bothers me the most. They could have gone for the median, or better yet a histogram, for the duration survs spend in the dying state, starting at 30 seconds. - Up to 30 seconds is a reasonable amount of time if someone is downed three times. 10 seconds just for picking and an additional 20 seconds to check or kick a gen or whatever. I usually pick immediately so I think 30 seconds seems awfully long already - but to account for the three downs you can get max and those paranoid folks who check a lot, why not. I can see that being within an acceptable range.
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for full bleedouts that's less than 1%
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You would realize slugging isn’t a problem at all if you try using We’re Gonna Live Forever or Buckle Up. 20 straight matches yesterday with no value from either.
It’s not a problem at all.
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To clarify the stats, you're saying that full bleedouts are less than 1%? And if so, is that less than 1% of 24% or less than 1% of all matches?
And I imagine the stats can't distinguish between killers who purposefully bleed out a survivor and a survivor who crawls away to a corner and forces a bleedout. Or is that somehow able to be taken into account?
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note on the ´´combined throughout the entire match´´
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1% of all matches, and no unfortunately we cannot distinguish between those that crawled away or were left to be slugged I'm afraid, wish we could.
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Thanks for the clarity. Do you happen to know the rates of 2m+ as well. I seem to always get the bleedout or 3m59s bleedout before hook as my last match of the night when playing Surv (because I'm certainly not playing another after that). I understand that negativity bias makes me think it is likely higher than it actually is, but I'm curious what the 2m+ category is at regardless.
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Sure, and the easiest way to break that 35s barrier is to leave one person slugged and look for the last survivor.
You're bound to have other situations where survivors are slugged, sure, but that's why most of them aren't for very long. If all the reasons killers would want to slug multiple times per match, slugging for the 4k is going to be far, far more often than having something like a boil over or sabo squad.
These stats very clearly say that under 'normal' gameplay, survivors aren't going to be slugged for long. It's the outlier situations, like those I mentioned, that cause extended slugging.
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I mean same with tunneling and DS, and slugging and UB, and running heal perks then getting nothing but Plague matches afterwards. Negativity bias is the main driver, because of how negative the extreme is.
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Because it's exceedingly rare to be slugged for any reason that isn't tactical, and because most players are not toxic on purpose to be toxic. Slugging as an issue is way way way overblown.
So's camping and tunnelling, TBH. But I do not think the community is mature enough to have that discussion.
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Thats the total amount of time left on the ground. If you got downed 3 times the killer spending between 5 to 12 seconds each time to do the bloodwipe animation, kick a pallet/gen and maybe look around isn't too crazy
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Keep in mind, that's not JUST people checking corners. You're also looking at people who play ranged killers that have to go fetch you and might reload before doing so, or... while they are incredibly rare... twins players. Get a down with Victor and your gonna be walking to go fetch.
When taking just the attack cooldown+ maybe a vault to the other side and multiply that by 3, I can already see THAT being 15 seconds, lol.
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Survivors aren't left slugged very often… No lullaby in Lights Out and I went for the save to have a hatchet hit me from afar, then I got slugged until the last survivor was downed, my bleed out was at 1/3
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The amount of rage from people upset by the stats in this post is pretty amusing. I also wonder if these stats factor in the time killers spend wiping their weapon after downing them, around 7-8ss in total if you down a survivor 3 times?? So what we're talking like 7-8s on average if that's the case? Relax people, it's human nature to remember bad things more vividly than good things, no one is picking on you and you don't get slugged/tunneled/camped every other game, you probably just don't enjoy the game anymore unless you win.
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Plot twist probably has less than a 2% pick rate. Regardless of whether or not it counts, it wouldn't move the statistics very much.
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I didn't think it overly skewed anything, was just curious. I just just imagine someone starting a match with no-mither and plot twist, bleed themselves out in a corner and take a screenshot to post on the forums after cropping out the perks to complain.
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So I'm not crazy. Given the statistics, slugging for a long time isn't common and slugging to death is rare.
These statistics are certainly matching my experience.
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I don't have an issue with the 15 seconds. - Like I said: I can see it taking up to that long and still being within the norm - but we're also looking at the average. If a killer just downs a surv and can insta pick that's three seconds, five tops. Killers can insta pick a lot. What does that mean for the pick ups that take longer than five seconds? That's what I mean with the average distorts the image and why the number seems a bit high for claiming a non-issue; I'd expect that the times where a killer can and does insta pick drastically lowers the number.
And as I say: It's more the 35secs I really take an issue with. I mean - if it actually takes killers that long to pick…. I can see how they're struggling even with a ton of slowdown. If you occasionally take that long; sure. But consistently? If you need so long that you usually (that's median not averge though) need 15+ seconds to pick a surv up every time one is downed…that's something the killer player should be looking at.
But let me repeat: The more I think about it the more I think that statistic is essentially meaningless without proper context/being able to check the data yourself.3
