Zanshin Tactics Gives Perma Wallhacks - Way Too Strong, Frequent, and Eliminates Mindgames
The Zanshin Tactics rework has gone a liiiitle too crazy, I think.
The frequency at which survivors enter and re-enter the radii of a pallet is incredibly often, and I quite disagree with the notion that this causes interesting mindgames - whenever Zanshin comes into play, it is practically always active. It completely eliminates mindgames and gives the killer near constant perfect knowledge of where Survivors are.
If this perk goes to live as it is, it is going to immediately become the new pervasive hated killer meta, just like Ultimate Weapon was. I don't think it should go to live in this state.
Maybe make Survivors scream instead, or give it a rather large cooldown between aura reveals?
And keep the original effect, too - being able to see vault and pallet locations is incredibly useful for learning players.
Comments
-
It doesn't work as you think. Aura is revealed and it will reset when Killer will be out of range - if they are looping in range - after 10 seconds it won't give aura anymore.
2 -
Three simple words: Object of Obsession
The hardest counter to Zanshin Tactics due to both players having infinite wall hacks
3 -
Why not make it the killer version of Troubleshooter. It gives the killer aura reading for 4/5/6 seconds, after the pallet is dropped.
2 -
Because that is completely useless. It's about as good as a having aura vision on the killer when they carry you to a hook. You already know where they are and you can probably see them.
4 -
It requires the killer to not break pallets. This is a serious disadvantage on most decent loops.
4 -
I've tested it on PTB and someone going even slightly out of range of pallet and going back in range because of a wide loop will trigger it.
Running Zanshin Tactics, I have near constant aura-reading.
1 -
I cannot quote the post saying to run Object of Obsession for some reason, but to that, I have to say:
The counter to any one perk cannot be to simply hope you're running the one precise perk out of hundreds that perfectly counters it.
8 -
It's great for things like jungle gyms. I quite like Troubleshooter.
2 -
Do people not realize how strong it is for Pyramid Head & Nurse? Most tiles become death traps even more than they already are.
7 -
In my opinion, the rework of the Perk is fine but they need to reduce the duration from 10 seconds (12 with LP) to 3 seconds and maybe give the survivors an indicator that Zanshin Tactics is in play (I've tested it and I've didn't see an indicator) like Human Greed has. (Don't get me wrong, not every aura perk should have an indicator but it might be fair when these ones have one when the killer has nothing to do to activate it but I am okay with when it does not have/get an indicator). This would make the perk overall more fair. 3 seconds are fair for both sides as they give the killer the information where the survivor goes while it doesn't remove the mindgame options for survivors for too long.
While I don't fully disagree, I also don't fully agree with this statement. Some tiles without LoS makes mindgames nearly impossible due to the 10sec aura reading which is a bit too much. In addition, mostly the weaker killers need to break stronger pallets while the stronger ones can outplay them (e.g. Pyramid Head, Artist, or Blight) and break these pallets after the chase is over. The only issue on the killerside I can see, is that killers will try to not break the pallet to get more value from Zenshin Tactics but in reality they make the down for them more difficult (similar back then when players used STBFL on Wesker or Demogorgon and tried to M2 the Obsession and chocke the game by not just M1 them - hope you know what I mean).
On Pyramid Head yes but not on Nurse because you nearly never drop a pallet against a Nurse since LoS blockers are your friend. Sometimes you drop a pallet but I guess this is so unreliable that Nurse players rather want to use different perk instead of Zanshin Tactis due to the unreliable situation where survivors drop pallets against you.
1 -
3 second is nothing i gues 7-8 would be enough
1 -
Not really. All that survivor has to do is the camp the pallet and they cannot be hit. A jungle gym pallet always has needs to be broken immediately and after that, they made so much distance that the aura reading is pointless.
Unless that survivor plays so incredibly bad that you get the hit with the pallet still intact. But then you don't need Zanshin Tactics.
2 -
7 or 8 seconds is very long and paired with LP it goes up to 9 or 10 seconds and then we are back to the issue that 10seconds is too long. There is also the point that the killer has nothing to do to get value from the perk. Other aura reading perks have either a requierement (Hooking, carring, kicking) or have a cooldown (I'm All Ears).
I love Aura reading perks because they are healthy for the game but nevertheless they should be fair for both sides and useable. So this is why I think 3sec is more than enough and paired with LP we have 5seconds → the perk has no cooldown and no requierement while the survivor has to give up a resource. We could also buff the perk in that direction that they increase the range from 6 to 8meters on the survivor and from 16 to 18meters on the killerside (or even remove the killer location part because in most cases the killer will break the pallet anyway either during or after the chase unless it is a weaker one).
Another solution could be that this Perk has a token system (starts with one tokens and can have up to three tokens) and for hooking a survivor, it gets one token. One token gets consumed when the survivor drops a pallets and then we might keep the 10seconds or go to the 7/8seconds. Another solution could be a cooldown but the developers are rather bad at finding a good cooldown for a perk and I think a cooldown would be a big nerf and make the perk rather bad.
1 -
Better have cooldown like 60/50/40 and aura duration for 8 second (10 with lethal)
1 -
so the thing about 10 second duration is that a killer can break the pallet immediately and still follow survivor with aura reading for 10 seconds. i wouldn't say the perk gains no value if you break pallets but it is like information where you already know where survivor is going.
Like take Oni for example, you use his demon strike to break the pallet and then you can blindly charge across wall and still survivor aura linger. with no aura, you'd be making a guess where they are and would charge demon dash slower/later then when you do have aura. it is like better thwack!.
2 -
I'm not a fan of the rework at all. Most killers will get no value out of this perk and the others will just be nasty. Like Pyramid Head, maybe Oni and Blight. Either way, this is pretty bad design. I'd go as far to say that it's even worse than the current Zanshin Tactics but maybe that's just me.
1 -
i see it more as quality of life perk. i think it is good designed perk because it promotes improving the power-roles chase but sadly, i don't see any room in killer perk selection to choose it from competitive stand-point.
If they make window version of this perk like I'm all ears, i can see Nurse using it.
0 -
Yeah I agree, it is ridiculous that we've moved onto attaching wall hacks to the little resources survivors have (first items with Weave, now pallets). I feel like there is a real dumbing down of the killer role happening. Survivors are expected to learn tiles and loops and just "get good" at mindgaming, but instead of placing this same learning expectation on killers they're just letting them see through walls.
And nice to see the "just use Object!" posts have started lol it used to be "just use Distortion!" when it came to aura perks but we know why that's no longer the case.
5 -
OH, yes, an indicator that the perk is in play is absolutely needed, should it go live with PTB functionality!
0
