What have they done...
Generators are finished between 12-18 seconds in the new PTB thanks to Corrective Action, Hyperfocused and any gen perks + Toolboxes.
Comments
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I'm not playing dbd if this goes live. Uninstalling even. Revert the SM changes too you outright destroyed her.
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While the theoretical gen speeds that can be obtained with maximum efficiency perks is insane… I can honestly say in 4.4k hours that I have never once actually encountered this kind of team in the wild. The most you ever realistically see is a few people running Hyperfocus, Stake Out, and Prove Thyself. Corrective Action isn't going to see any major use and it's not worth the hysterics.
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I doubt this will go live.
If it does though? I'll take a long, long break from the game until it is fixed.7 -
Instead of talking about it here - just go into PTB feedback and make a post about it!
Tell about all your concerns and make a suggestion on how to improve it.
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Hyperfocus + Stake Out was always just gimmicky enough that it was more of a "fun" build since many killers counter Stake Out by having on demand undetectable or small TRs which often resulted in the time commitment to build up Stake Out stacks was longer than just doing gens normally.
Hyperfocus and Corrective action requires no interaction with the killer to build up stacks and as long as multiple people are running the perk to feed into each other, you can just do a gen significantly faster.
I very much see a world where Hyperfocus and Corrective Action get played to a level of Old DH or CoH if nothing is changed before going live.
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I thought Corrective Action only worked on other people's skillchecks, though? Is this the kind of thing where a duo will just sit on a gen hacking Hyperfocus for each other, and neither really needs to hit greats with any kind of consistency? Because yeah, then I could see these perks needing to not interact.
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yeah i was wrong it definitely look stupid. Probably won't go live
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Why does that make it ok? Just because something is rare, doesn't make it ok or fun to deal with.
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It does, but imagine this you have 2 people work a gen. One has prove thyself, they both have hyperfocus, and they both have corrective action.
If they spam spacebar and intentionally fail the skill check, what happens is:
Survivor A fails a skill check, but it becomes a great skill check, so they gain a token on hyperfocus and a token on corrective action.
Survivor B spends a token of corrective action.
Survivor b fails a skill check, it becomes a great skill check, they gain a token of hyperfocus and a token of corrective action.
They intentionally fail the skill check, which gives them a great skill check, which increases hyperfocus, and gives them back stacks of corrective action,, effectively trading the corrective action stack back and forth, and infinitely gaining hyperfocus stacks.
But now hyperfocus also increases the odds of a skill check the more tokens it has creating more tokens. Throw on a toolbox with lots of charges so you can get early skillchecks fast, and yeah, you'll have a 15-20 second gen each time.
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Oh dear. Okay. Yeah, that's a huge problem if the fake great skill checks creates a positive feedback loop that keeps both perks active. I was under the impression that the survivors actually had to hit some greats or they'd run out of Corrective Action stacks, but if it's that easy to use then yeah, it's going to be everywhere in SWF.
I wasn't concerned because all previous 'look how fast this gen can go' builds I've seen showcased required setup or high precision and you didn't actually see them in the wild, but if this one is this braindead to use, it'll be not only meta, but the especially obnoxious kind of meta that elevates SWF without helping solo. I retract my statement and migrate over to the Panic Corner thusly.
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It removes any reason to include skillchecks and thus any risk at all. It actually actively rewards failure.
That alone is why this shouldn't go live.
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This is the most insane gen rush setup since og bnp. With all the regression and blocking nerfs this will result in 10+ minute survivor queues again
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It will not go live. Not really worth complaining about IMO, since it is 100% clear that it wont go live.
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On the contrary, I'd say it's worth complaining about to ensure it doesn't go live.
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Nah, you are wasting your time. If you think that you contribute to it not going live if you are yapping for two weeks about it now, you are just wrong.
The Devs most likely had an oversight here (with Hyperfocus). This is not the first time it happened and not the first time something will be rolled back.
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How the devs didn't see this coming when people thought of this when it was first showed off in the dev update is surprising to me.
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Alright, but what if nobody said anything? Would you trust the devs to remember this oversight?
Heck I see a ton of players who overlooked the synergy while a few of us saw this coming from the patch notes.3 -
This is not the first time it happened. It happens quite a bunch of times that they implement something and everyone on the PTB noticed that this is just wrong.
And it also happened in the past that they had an oversight when changing something that it might become too good with another Perk or Add On. I mean, it should not happen, but then again, with so many Perks in the game, I can imagine that it just happens that when discussing things like that, that not everyone has every Perk in the game in mind (in this case Hyperfocus).
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I dont think that that many players overlooked it. From what I have seen, it was known instantly that this might be a problem, but I personally thought that they did some measurements that it does not synergize with Hyperfocus. Turns out, they didnt, but now they are aware of this Oversight (they have not acknowledged it yet, but I am sure they are aware), so I doubt it will go live.
So I dont have any worries when it comes to this.
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Fun fact, the devs thought this too - Jeff and Mandy in the Discord today (provided I remember this correctly) said they weren't 100% sure either way but believed that it wouldn't work together, and that Corrective Action shouldn't feed back into itself.
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If they didn't mention the synergy and the intent to change it in the patch notes, I'm going to assume they didn't notice it.
Whether or not they've probably already noticed the problem, it really doesn't hurt to raise visibility and concern in case they haven't. We have seen cases of synergies everyone knew would be very bad being pushed to live that had to be retconned - see, Boil Over. Bad times all around.
It's not an insult to BHVR. There's hundreds of perks now, many of them affecting the same narrow fields. I certainly can't keep them all straight. But that's the point of the PTB. We're playtesters. We optimize the snot out of the changes to the game, complain loudly, and beg BHVR to patch the worst of our excesses.
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So most likely some Devs did not notice and those who noticed thought that they wont work together. So I am not worried that it will come live.
And to be honest, this was the only aspect of Corrective Action which could have really be improved. So not surprised they went this route, even if it turned out to be wrong in the end.
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I think this version of Corrective Action is fine if and only if the Devs do something to make Hyperfocus not so genrushy.
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Believe it or not, a 6-sided dice will eventually land on 6. So even though people keep using that copout that it's apparently super super rare, you will eventually face these teams, or teams who are almost as good as them, and lose no matter what you do. Refusal to acknowledge unwinnable killer matches is what's killing this game, because killers and survivors keep getting angry at each other, and SWF gets to enjoy the show with full impunity.
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Hyperfocus is fine. If it would be that good, it would be used more often, but it was only really popular when Wesker came out.
They just need to push back the Corrective Action-Change OR make it that it cannot synergize with Hyperfocus. But both on its own are completely fine.
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If the roll back the Corrective Action change do you think they’ll find another low-tier survivor perk to buff? My understanding is that they’re trying to improve survivor perks no one uses but that won’t be complained about if improved.
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To be fair they don't need to revert the CA changes, literally just make it so CA cannot feed tokens back into itself in a constant loop.
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This is what the PTB is for. Testing things.
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Because there obviously a need to "test" such interaction. Right.
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That could mess up other perks or something else. Their coding isn’t sophisticated. I’d rather they don’t create a ripple of glitches and just leave Corrective Action be. I’m not sure why they’re attempting to buff that particular perk anyway (I guess they thought it was a safe one. Idk).
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I would fix this by making it so all skill check perks count skill checks fixed by Corrective Action as failed.
What this does is that while the gen gets extra progress and won't explode, perks still count the skill check as failed and won't gain stacks.
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Oh I can answer this one! On the discord stream they said that, instead of trying to nerf perks, this time they were looking at many perks below a 1% usage rate and wanted to buff or rework them to try and get them above 1%. "While we know it's impossible to have every perk used equally, we don't want any of them to go beneath 1%" (or something along those lines), and a lot of these perks were beneath like 0.5% usage rate.
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