I'm tired of devs nerfing bad killers
The nerfs to Hillbilly I understand but Twins, Unknown and Skull Merchant? Absolutely not. Who are you going to nerf next? Plague and Pinhead? No. Just no.
Survivors complain about facing the same killers then you should thank behaviour for nerfing the bad killers.
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Plague is really strong wdym?
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It's not really that hard - if a killer is above average they should be nerfed to bring them closer to average. If a killer is below average they should be buffed to bring them closer to average. The higher the parity between different killers, the better the game balance can be. It can never be perfect, especially with the difference in skill ceiling and skill floor between the different killers, but the devs can and should do their best.
Twins, Unknown, Skull Merchant, Plague, and Pinhead were all above average, so some level of nerfs make sense. Unknown is new, so it's getting its normal post-launch tweaks, and SM is widely despised and seems in need of a rework. It makes sense that they're both getting touched. Plague and Pinhead wouldn't have been top of my list to tweak, but they are on that list. Twins feel like they need a rework more than anything and they weren't changed much this time anyhow.
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Plague is strong but not unbalanced.
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Her and pinhead are pub stompers. But they are both in good spots rn.
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penhead is not a stomping killer atm
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Plague is in good spot but Pinhead is kinda weak and only cared by passive chain hunt
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Yes he is. He’s always been. He wrecks in solo queue.
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And thats a biggest question why? How this weak killer has huge killrate and became solo crusher. Hes passive slowdown one of the most easiest to avoid (if he doesnt have iri box addon) and his m2 anti loop much weaker version of Doctor.
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I don’t understand either
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When I play Pinhead I have noticed the Chain Hunt gets a lot of players. It’s easy to snowball from that. If you add more Gen regression then it makes it worse.
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I find it funny Killer mains always say a killer is "weak" just based on their personal feeling. In an assymetrical game like this the only way to tell if a character is strong or weak is how they actually perform in game.
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I say this cause i play against cenobite a lot and his pressure mediocrce at best.
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Let me just say this…
There is a DIFFERENCE between a killer being "too strong", and survivors DC'ing just because they don't like going against them. Hatred for Skull Merchant is ingrained in our brains from the old days. She's not that bad in Live. I do agree with taking out the Hindered/Haste combo.
Reducing Scan lines from 2 to 1. Yikes. This is going to gut her, because survivors can just avoid the drones all together by running around the single scan line.
So here's how it will play out. You'll gut SM, then all the SM mains will start tunneling, camping, and slugging EVEN MORE, because the HAVE TO to win. They'll do it because her kit is now too weak to win against any group of survivors worth their salt. So, survivors will continue to DC against her.
I guess we'll see in a month.1 -
The problem with this statement is that "average" is actually horrible and unviable at a high level. They need to be brining more of the killers up while nerfing the top 3-4, rather than nerfing something like skull merchant who, when played against for real, has probably an underwhelming kill rate, but only has a high kill rate due to people just giving up immediately against her.
The problem is that kill rates are inflated massively due to survivors giving up on hook, and skull merchant being a 72% kill rate proves that.
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Literally not a single of the killers named in your post were ever weak. Well, except SM now.
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except they said hook suicides only accounted for 2.5% of SM kills and that it’s not much more than average.
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I disagree with the person saying killers should be average. Killers should be at least B tier. And most of them are at least B tier and we have a lot of stronger killers than ever before
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Do you have any data to back up those claims? And why are hook suicides the constant refrain I hear on the forum while farming killers are never mentioned? Or the fact that most DCs seem to happen in matches where the killer is dominating, which would also bias the stats we have down? In the wild, I find all of the above are relatively rare. I don't think their cumulative effects do that much on the aggregate, except perhaps in unique cases like SM's kill rate, and even then I've only seen speculation on this.
Regardless, this approach is still the correct one. Killers should all be viable regardless of MMR. The easiest way to do this is to buff weak killers, nerf strong ones, and then make buffs/nerfs to survivor/killer overall such that the game is balanced. Killers too weak/strong at certain MMRs can certainly be adjusted accordingly.
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How is she strong? With a pink add-on she's strong? With bad players constantly cleansing against her she's strong? How is she strong?
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That's a lie. That's actually what survivors do. We call killers weak because they are, because we've played many many matches with them. We've seen firsthand how they perform, not just secondhand. So we don't say anything funny.
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I don't "understand" even Hillbilly getting nerfed. How often do you see him, really? And they absolutely would nerf those other killers. Any killer that can do anything vs survivors, they nerf. That contributes to the imbalance at the top end, which is why up there, any killer that's not Nurse or Blight can play exceptionally well and get nothing for it. Survivors will never criticize BHVR for nerfing killers. They only criticize the devs when they finally throw us a bone and give a minor buff to 1, 2, maybe 3 killers. Otherwise, they slander the devs as killer mains. Right...
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Cenobite is also weak
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Well i guess i want to know what your definition of weak is. No killer has under a 50% kill rate. So i am genuiely curious what do you think makes a "weak" killer.
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They probably mean any killer that's not over powered or oppressive in some way. Everyone has killers they hate for some reason or another. My gf thinks cenobite is too strong. I think he's fine. But cenobite and plague have the problem of player's not knowing when to interact with their powers which makes them problematic for your average game
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She's a strong killer. Not an OP killer. There's no need to nerf her. I dont know that they are going to do that. They haven't spoken about what they are doing with her or pinhead.
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twins is considered one of the few top strongest killers, sm is the single most hated killer in the game and plague is really strong. also we don't know what they will do to them, hopefully not much because either pinhead or plague doesn't need any changes (except og pain).
unknown nerf to his photo add on is awful, hopefully it doesn't go live.
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just because your bad at playing her doesn’t mean she’s not strong
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Source?
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I don't exactly run a datawarehouse on my computer. But i can anecdotally say that survivors give up in probably 30% of the games i play, and significantly more when i'm playing a hated killer like skull merchant.
And i also talk about farming killers, and you can see that in the data around the doctor, doctor is definitely not the worst killer in the game, but he is a popular choice for the afk farming because you just setup a thing to static blast every time its off cooldown and you can still get 10kish bloodpoints a game by just standing there. But this discussion has nothing to do with that, we are talking very specifically about the killers mentioned in the OP
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She isnt strong shes b tier
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I have seen some Pinheads utilize Hex: Plaything, Hex: Pentimento, Pain Res, and whatever fourth perk you can think of which can give Pinhead a lot of general slowdown for the game.
I think the main issue most of the time is that people don't necessarily go for the box until last minute. Some survivors simply run to the box, attempt to solve it, and immediately get canceled out especially if a Pinhead can interrupt it.
Obviously, learning to do the box while he's in chase, picking up a survivor, solving the box under a pallet, or even solving the box with an exhaustion perk handy. Most solo-queue players still have these issues with how oppressive he can be depending on the build of the Pinhead in question. I'd argue that he's quite strong against people who generally do not know how to counter him, which what I just suggested but if going against a competent team, he might struggle a bit more.
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I see Hillbilly quite often in my games. 😂 Him, Huntress, and Spirit are all killers I see a lot of the time. Sprinkle a little Oni and Nurse in the mix there too.
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You must be very good, very toxic, or both :) I've played maybe 20 hours lately after a long hiatus, about 15 of which were as survivor. I didn't have a single DC against me as killer and I only had a couple teammates DC as survivor.
I'm not specifically talking about AFK farming. Sometimes killers are just friendly and looking to farm, or get pacified by cute survivor behavior, or turn friendly to the rest of the team after one survivor badly sandbags another or kills themself on first hook. This doesn't happen much either, but it certainly does from time to time, and much more often than an AFK doctor. It's also not specific to a particular killer.
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Sentences 1-2: "I don't assert killers are weak because of personal feeling! That's what survivors do!"
Sentence 3: Asserts killers are weak because of personal feeling.
Personal anecdotes are irrelevant in the face of data from the entire playerbase.
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It's funny because the devs literally said in the recent stream that Skull Merchants kill rate is still 68% when they throw out games where someone gives up on the first hook. I think the number they gave was 2.5% of games against skull merchant have someone dropping on the hook. They basically completely shut down the ridiculous narrative that kill rates are only high because of survivors giving up. Conveniently the usual suspects didn't bother to mention that. I expect they will continue to use this as an argument even though it has been debunked.
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I didn't know that, but that definitely matches what I would expect. I bet she could have a couple times more hook suicides than average and still have it not affect the stats that much.
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It's not a matter of being good or toxic, this happens literally during the first chase or outplay. If i outplay a survivor quickly, or am just playing a hated killer, the first person often immediately just stands there and does nothing then kills themself on hook. I wouldn't even have a chance to play "good" or even "toxic" by the time they give up.
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Isn't b tier average? If not then what tier is average, seems c tier is below average.
Post edited by doobiedo at0 -
c tier is average. B tier is above average. At least that’s what it says on a report card😭
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