Should the Finisher Mori changes be scrapped/reverted?
As it stands now, we will loose the abillity to mori more than the last survivor with green and red rarity moris, which will make them absolutely obsolete and the BP rewards are not worth it at all.
If it was just a matter of yellow mori basekit but the red and greens STAY THE SAME, this would be fine. Because this was alredy suggseted last time the community as a whole hard declined the finisher mori idea.
So i can only say it again for myself, no. I dont want this. And i want to see how many people agree and i want the Devs to see how many people agree, in raw numbers.
I made it anonymous so anyone can feel free to vote.
Should the Finisher Mori changes be scrapped/reverted? 42 votes
Comments
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The change is terrible. They should absolutely scrap it.
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How about an option of "I want a better way to get a Mori, but not last Kill"
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I also find it a bit tiresome we have to debate this a second time with the devs. First time no was not enough?
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Before we can discuss alternate versions of how to mori people we need to make sure to safe our offerings. I want a clear message and not a big discussion. The devs need to see bright and big that the people dont want their red and green mori offerings ruined.
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they should make it so you can mori people after 8 hooking.
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why? it doesnt even matter you can only mori people on death hook anyway.
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Currently the mori system encourages slugging, removes photobombing, and overall makes matches including mori's less fun. If you could mori people at 8 hooks, it wouldnt be more powerful or anything, but it would discourage tunneling for those who want to mori. Unlike the current system, it would keep everything people like about mori's. Even better if you get llike 10k bp per mori so theres even more encouragement. Then they could change the mori offerings if they really wanted to since they'd function similary at base.
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Idk tunneling alredy happens alot i dont think the moris encourage it that mutch more.. But this would also be ok by me, not favored, but definitly better than loosing red and green moris all together.
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That sentiment can be derived from the many posts about this as well as the polling numbers at the top this post. Now we can discuss in the comments (that may be read by interested parties) and work together to provide feedback on what we'd want to see.
Personally I'd be interested in a Mori being added to the base-game. Mostly keeping the agency of choice of the current Mori's. One that avoids the sweaty utility of skipping a pickup/perks. One that avoids the sweat needed for a 4K in an MMR game. Preferably promoting spreading hooks. And one that isn't guaranteed against every survivor.
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Where is the option: keep the change, don't change multiple mori offerings?
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I hate to break it to you but from my experience that is not how the devs handle feedback sadly. Numbers is the only thing they really sometimes consider.
Ofc feel free to discuss changes, im not saying this post should only be pure voting and no discussions around it, its not my decision anyway. I just dont think it will get through, as it alredy seems they didnt get it the first time. So i want to make it as hard for them to misinterpret what people want as possible.Because thats alredy too complicated, imo. I would like an idea like that but i feel like its too late now, now we only can try to minimize the damage.
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The best way to describe it (as many others have said) is "just make yellow mori basekit".
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This was also the sentiment last time in 2022. And look where we are now. Again, im all for it. But i dont think its possible with BHVR at this point, so i rather have the moris untouched.
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Bud, this iteration of the finisher IS Yellow Mori Basekit. (But with a different name)
Yellow Mori lets you kill the last survivor in a Trial by your hand.
Finisher Mori lets you kill the last survivor in a Trial by your hand.
This is exactly that.
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With the sour taste of red and green mori offerings completely ruined.
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Which is fair. Had those Offerings not been touched, would you have been fine with the changes?
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No, because it also touches the other moris and make them "points".
They only need to make yellow moris basekit, no more, no less.
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Keep the system, leave the offerings alone.
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So you like this iteration on the Finisher Mori, just not the changes to the Mori Offerings.
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Make yellow mori base kit. Scrap the rest. Give extra bloodpoints for moring.
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then yeah. I wouldnt be too fond of it but at least it would be something i could accept.
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It's not just that. The idea of Finisher Mori as a whole is simply unhealthy.
By hiding the Mori animation behind a 4k, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is.
Not to mention it also indirectly encourages proxy-camping/tunnelling, reduce Killer variety and perk variety in order to get that juicy animation (which I guarantee will get old really quick and will be met with more scorn than a normal 4k, it would be a matter of time before Mori animations are seen as a form of BM like "let me rub my victory in your face a bit longer with this cutscene") since when Survivors start to get better, weaker/slower/M1 Killers tend to struggle more and need to play more aggressively to compete.
Hiding Mori behind 4k is, in my opinion, only going to make people hate those animations and will make the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is.
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the previous Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout games than normal even though people could get up because Killers wanted that animation after tunnelling the first 2 Survivors.
However, I have a possible idea to keep Finisher Mori BUT make it healthier;
What if you can Mori the last Survivor by your hand without needing a perk/offering BUT can only do so if said Survivor was downed AFTER hatch spawned (which means either a 3k was already achieved or everybody else got out). A Mori made in this fashion would offer a massive BP boost (further enhanced by Mori offerings which would keep their old effect alongside giving an incrementally higher BP bonus depending on rarity).
This would incentivize people to NOT slug for the 4k and play the match in it's entirety. This wouldn't affect those that already slugged for the 4k but would reward those that don't and take a gamble to win the Hatch race. This keeps the Finisher Mori but is also healthy for everyone.
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I like the idea of it being base-kit as it's an opportunity to do it from time to time without having to burn an offering. (Probably I wouldn't waste my time slugging to get it past the first time.)
But I don't like losing the option to four-mori.
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I would prefer if the yellow one becomes basekit, but green and red still allowed additional moris with each mori giving additional bloodpoints.
At the moment moris are still 'special'. A decision made by the killer to bring them. What I like is that the current PTB system still keeps the final mori optional. And that's a choice I wouldn't want to have taken from me. I can still choose if I want to give hatch instead. I can still mori the survivor that loses the slug race. I still have some degree of autonomy.
But I also want to be able to choose who and how many of my survivors I mori. I want to be lore-accurate and only mori Chris Redfield. I want to be able to mori the sandbagging survivor and let the player that got the pallet to their face go. I want to make choices based on how every game played out and how every single player acted AND I want for my entire swf to be able to get morid by STARS Wesker if said STARS align correctly.
My two cents.
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I like that your Mori is unreliable, given that the down condition is tied to after Hatch has been found (and the survivor the chance to find it). However I wonder if that could be circumvented by slugging the survivor(s), hooking the last one/waiting till all but one survivor is left alive slugged (the others having killed by time on hook), finding hatch, closing it, then picking up and dropping the survivor until they fall off, then downing them again.
However that is still tied behind a 4K which brings MMR concerns.
Thematically I like that your Mori is allowed once the EGC starts and the "Entity is done with the Trial".
But maybe there's a way to make the "Entity satiated" without having to have killed 3 Survivors already? Such that it can be made more casually accessible.
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Would you mind terribly if the Ivory/Ebony Mori's were changed to prevent their usage as a sweat tool to circumvent a Carry to-hook/Perks/Rescue attempts, but still allowed the option for a Mori on a survivor of your choice/Multiple Mori's?
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Uhm.. once the survivor is Mori-able he is alredy been hooked 2 times. There were enough chances to safe the survivor. At some point the killer has to got his sacrifice no matter hook or mori.
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I'm not sure where you are going with this. Both sides seem incompatible.
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What if you had to carry the Survivor and drop them under Hook/The Kill prompt was added under a Hook while carrying a Deathhook survivor instead of "Hook Survivor"?
It would lose out on some player agency as to where the Mori could be performed, so perhaps instead of that, to perform a Mori it gave the Survivor one last chase before they can be Killed?
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I think the issue with this system is that it doesn't get rid of the mori offerings clogging up my bloodwebs and instead fills slots that could be puddings or party streamers with yellow and green moris
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There's technically still a chance to Flashlight/Flashbang/Decisive Strike/Drop Pallet/Power Struggle/Flip Flop/Sabo/Body-block/Breakout/Boil Over the Killer.
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You realize a mori wastes a lot of time by itself already?
I would never use a mori if it was that cumbersome. (Not that I usually do: it's a waste of time, slugging or hooking is more efficient.)
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But do we need it that badly though? Aint like the 3rd hook stage is alredy a sign of alot of work on the killers side (or not enough on the survivors side).
And your suggsetion with the need to carry and THEN only be able to mori, talk about even longer duration just for the mori. Not like gens just got buffed again. Like if we talk about advantages its completely out of proportion what survivors have at their disposal when you compare it with the niche scenarios that can be prevented by a mori.0 -
Well, I do suppose I am making this from a casual perspective, not a competitive one. Making it not time-efficient means it wouldn't be used competitively.
Which, to be frank, is exactly the counter-argument lens both of you used: Time-saving. Though I don't disagree with the cumbersomeness of needing to take a survivor to Hook.
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To be frank, I think the 3rd hook state is only truly difficult to reach in matches where the Killers comparative MMR is reliant on them Deathhooking a Survivor and then leveraging EGC proxy-camp resulting in a 2K draw or 1K loss (after an increase in MMR) with the fewest number of hooks possible.
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even stronger argument for moris to stay how they are from a casual PoV. Because you can bet the people will start slugging for the 4k even more with this change. Or they would just stop using moris if you make them too obnoxious to do, if i have to drag them to the hook first then i rather hook them, then i dont need a mori. And has nothing to do even with "advantage" as little it is compared to generator buffs in this same PTB and gen regression nerfs in the past, it has to do with time consumption. Yes the animation is cool, but it still takes time. You handicap yourself a tiny bit as killer by using a mori. Now with the added need to get them to the hook first this becomes unproportionally time consuming for what it actually does.
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That's a stronger argument for not having the current iteration of the Finisher Mori/Cypress Mori function as it does now. OR at the very least make this the "competitive option".
If the "casual option" actually was a handicap to use (depending on how much of one), then players that frequently go for this kind of thing would actually impact their MMR downward comparative to the norm for their skill sans using the Mori, probably indirectly resulting in easier matches for them overall… Which actually might have negative consequences…
Mmmm….But… If it is widely known that using Mori's in such a method is not a competitive option, then this might be a method for players to self-filter into "casual" or "competitive" lobbies. (Well, Killers mostly, Survivors it'll still be a tossup)
Maybe then, if the Ivory/Ebony Mori is kept as a competitive tool, but the base-game Mori was reformed into a more "casual" tool that takes more time to reach than any Offering (though not limited to only obtainable with a 4K), that might keep all players happy? (Except those that dislike Mori's competitive advantage, but then they're free to just forfeit the match)
Or Vice-versa?Post edited by AssortedSorting on1 -
I like the finisher mori being a thing, I just wish I could mori everyone else as well via the ebony mori since it's fun. It definitely will make new killer ptbs less fun since now you have to run devour hope if you want to showcase the new mori to all the survivors. Just make ebony mori work the same way it always does and I'm fine.
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Moris are fun. This change is antifun. It encourages even more antifun. I want to do photoshoots with my Killers. I want to photobomb my friends dying while I play the silly lute as Alucard in the background. I do NOT want to slug or be slugged for a 4k just to get one measly Mori. I want the whole pizza not one little slice.
Cypress basekit and Moris giving points is ALL that should come to live. Leave green and iris alone.
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There is nothing competitive about mori offerings, they are simply for fun. As i alredy said it takes actually longer to do the mori than to hook people normally. If they were only activated under a hook so you still have to drag them there, this is just a unneccessary added condition which steals the fun out of moris.
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