Has Survivor Meta Truly Changed?
Comments
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True!
I'm sure someone will "disprove" your argument with this, but I do see perk variation among survivor players. It's just that, unlike killers, they're varying up their builds for fun. Killers are varying up their builds because they have no clue what's good anymore, since everything is bad. The survivors have the choice of destroying killers with meta perks, or without meta perks because they don't even need them. Hence the screenshots.
And even not buying into that, we still see the general stats in which the survivor meta is basically unchanged. To be fair, the killer meta doesn't change much either, but again it's out of desperation. Look at the perks they're using. Stuff to slow gens and info, because they NEED that time cut out to win the match. And the survivor perks just negate those perks.
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We wouldn't mind going back more but we can't bring things back with us and this is kinda where we feel wheres it still in the realm of "fair bs". We'd rather have a chimera of different parts of the timeline but we doubt many feel the same.
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Fair enough, I can understand that. Personally I don't mind the problematic balance that much, the way I see it the good outweighs the bad in the Old DBD, but I know that isn't true for everyone.
Gotta say though, my friends, the chimera is not a bad idea. Obviously it depends on what you will do, but I believe it could work.
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In my opinion. The issue is the gimmicky side of survivor perks.
Killer perks tend to compliment what you're already doing. Rarely do you have to go out of your way to complete gimmicky side objectives. And perks that did like Machine Learning get changed.
Meanwhile half of survivor perks read like this; "if it's a Wednesday and the killer is Clown you get no fall stagger in The Game if you've looted a flashlight from a chest or cleansed Hex: Haunted Ground. 60 second cooldown."
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i'd say opposite is occurring. the killer meta has been perfectly static for a full year with killer using the nerfed version of perks because nothing else is worth using. survivor perk buffs have been solid and have progressively made their perk selection more diverse. killer perks on other hand haven't moved needle at all. the few random killer perks that end up being somewhat relevant like Ultimate weapon and Weave attunement are just getting nerfed not to mention all 10+ killer perks getting nerfed. survivor have received major perk nerfs post 6.1 like Circle of healing, Made for This and Distortion with other perk changes like Adrenaline, Buckle up, Background player & Prove thyself but it is nowhere near extent that killer perks are being weakened.
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the meta depends on them overbuffing a z tier perk and then it eventually gets nerfed back into z tier
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I think the notion of a meta in terms of survivor perks is a bit of a misnomer. It literally doesn't matter what you run in solo queue. Your experience is determined entirely by matchmaking. You can run full meta every game and have zero difference whatsoever in your results as a survivor. It's not like killer where running full meta directly correlates to results. I would challenge anyone who plays solo queue to equip 4 random perks or zero perks and compare your results over 10 games to 10 games of full meta.
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I would challenge anyone who plays solo queue to equip 4 random perks or zero perks and compare your results over 10 games to 10 games of full meta.
Challenge accepted. What would you say is the current survivor meta?
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i think he is saying that you can run your most prefered perks to win vs not run your most prefered perks and win the same amount. For example, say your confident winning build is Deja vu+Build to last+Lithe+Kindred with Commodus toolbox with yellow wire spool+grey scraps. He is saying that you running a less comfortable build would yield same results e.g Running Dramaturgy+Strength of from shadows+Botany knowledge+Empathic connection.
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Windows, OTR, Exhaustion, Finesse would be a pretty meta build. Take a syringe while you're at it. Not disputing that there is a meta on survivor. Just saying that it's not super impactful in terms of escape rate. At least in my opinion. You might have a different experience than I do.
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I do not have Finesse unlocked. Is there another option?
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Deja Vu would be a good one in that case
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Question: Are we counting games where someone starts swinging on hook/rage quit?
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Okay, got it!
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- if all killers were like Legion or Plague, Thanato would be Meta. Is it that hard to understand? it is very normal the surv meta is always the same... survs are to be considered as a "single" killer who always has the exact same needs. then when Devs tries something new for Surv and is successful... within a couple of months he gets nerfed. The meta surv will always remain the same
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If it is terrible then why can I do good with it solo?
And yes, it is a perk that rewards you for being good at skill checks… So, a skill-based perk means it is bad?
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Yeah, Freddy was a good punching bag on release.
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I am down to do that I could screenshot it for you if you want.
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You got the Sabo meta, you got the gen rush meta, and you got the chase meta, or the anti-tunnel meta.
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Imagine taking the challenge and then getting SM multiple times in a row and everyone leaves every match at the start of the game lol challenge failed.
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What do you expect when 80% of the perks surv roster is useless/niche and you can get value out of 1 in 20 games?
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I played my first game in about 3 months last night. I was running Claudette with her 3 originals perks. Empathy, Botany Knowledge, Self Care, and I added Desperate Measures. Literally, the very first game, I get matched against a plague lol. To top it off there was another survivor running a similar build to mine. So the only perk that really got any use was empathy. More or less a permanent aura read on my teammates.
None of us left the match or anything but it felt like a wasted build right off the bat.
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Come on, man, you're smarter than this. I know you're smart enough to realize "terrible if you can't hit great skill checks" does not mean "terrible always under every circumstance"
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I'd say yes. Those games still take up your time.
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It's not really a success or failure type of challenge. The whole point is to see if your solo queue experience really changes depending on what you run. Games where people quit are absolutely a part of that.
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When someone calls something terrible it usually means they think it is bad, so I just assumed.
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There were a few matches I would have lost but the Hyper Focus build I used saved the match.
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Funny, my non meta build still did the best on the team.
Second Wind is what got me the escape due to it healing me.
I think this killer had a fun time without slowdown and regression perks.
Well, I guess he did have Surge if you can call that a regression perk.
Idk maybe he did not like a 20 second 10% Haste + an extra 10% Haste that lasts 30 seconds from Babysitter.
What can I say? The build I used is just not worth the perk slots lol there is no DH, DS, UB, IW, OTR, or anything.
Post edited by 1_TDSDarthWage on0 -
I try to do this as killer/ survivor too but on average its usually 1-2 of their perks. There are a lot of perks that are too niche to use, have too many downsides/activation, or straight up dont do anything relevant unfortunately
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I'll see if I can do it and get some data collection going, just for fun.
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Challenge Part 1
Legend: Killer - Map - Survived or not - Gens Done - Total survivors escaped - Extra tid bits
Non meta: Cybil: [No One Left Behind, Borrowed Time, Desperate Measures, Calm Spirit] Offering: Sacrificial Ward
1: Nurse - Nostromo - Escaped - 5/5 - 4/4 - Note: None.
2: Knight - Coal Tower - Died - 2/5 - 0/0 - Note: seemed to join a 2 man squad with sabos and flashlights, everyone was chatty in lobby
3: Chucky - Orhmond - Escaped - 5/5 - 3/4 - Note: Basic [Beep] Build 1
4: Dracula - Grim Pantry - Died - 5/5 - 3/4 - Note: Damn it Kate...
5: Hag - N/A - umm...escaped? - N/A - Error - Note: Hag D/Ced in loading (Does this count?)
6: Pinhead Larry - The Game - Died - 1/5 [on Death] - N/A - Note: Pinhead was showing mercy to the last 2 after he killed me. Didnt stay to watch till the end.
7: Twins (shocker right there) - Azarovs Resting Place - Technically Died [Read notes] - Technically 5/5 [3/5] - 1/4 - Note: Twins tried to let the last 2 of us go. We refuse pitty escapes like that on principle. Essentially, could have escaped while the 3/5 is what we got before they stopped trying to kill us.
8: Wesker - RPD West - Died - Gens: 5/5 - Total: 0/4 Note: The claudette decided to fill the stereotype of healing in the corner each injury...and also not work on gens for 4/5ths that round...and all around aggravated me. Not sure if thats an excuse or not but I wana vent.
9: Skull Merchant - Disturbed Ward - Escaped/Hatch - 3/5 - 1/4 - Note: No one quit on first hook! She still tried to play the steriotypical way though...
10: Clown - Haddonfield - Escaped - 5/5 - 4/4 - Note: He really wanted to protect a gen which bought…A lot of time (this is how your suppose to use stealth ppl). Was also nice enough to not camp me despite the last gen finishing as I was downed.
Overall: WAY more veriety than we're used too before hibernating. We is pleased~Stay tuned for part 2, coming to a theater near you
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And... done!
Killer - Map - Result
Meta:
1- Vecna - Haddonfield - Death
2- Nurse - Nostromo Wreckage - Death
3- Huntress - Father Campbell's Chapel - Death
4- Legion - The Game - Escape
5- Wraith - Raccoon City Police Station East Wing - Escape
6- Unknown - Fractured Cowshed - Death
7- Clown - Midwich Elementary School - Death
8- Ghostface - Raccoon City Police Station West Wing - Escape
9- Legion - Eyrie of Crows - Death
10- Spirit - Rancid Abattoir - Death
Perkless:
1- Chucky - Suffocation Pit - Death
2- Nurse - Wretched Shop - Death
3- Chucky - Wrecker's Yard - Death
4- Legion - The Game - Escape
5- Knight - Garden of Joy - Death
6- Wesker - Wretched Shop - Escape
7- Dracula - Badham Preschool II - Death
8- Spirit - Raccoon City Police Station West Wing - Death
9- Chucky - Azarov's Resting Place - Escape
10- Pyramid Head - Mount Ormond Resort - Escape
Post edited by GeneralV on2 -
So these are games where you faced these killers or they are games where you were the killer? I am seeing a lot of death here.
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Yeah, those are games where I faced these killers. The idea was to do the solo queue meta / perkless experiment.
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Why would I bring Hyperfocus with Stake Out when I can bring Resilience (9% repair speed when injured + other speed bonuses) and Deja Vu (6% extra repair speed and also see gen auras)?
I'm no good at maths, so maybe Stake Out + Hyperfocus gets the gens done quicker, I don't know. But I do know I'll personally get at least some value out of my perk choices in every trial.
Besides, I'm pushing 40 so my reactions aren't the best these days. And I don't know if you play on Switch, but hitting great skill checks on that platform is more luck than anything else.
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Why should survivors have to play worse than they can? But when a killer tunnels or camps or slugs they get accused of being bad and toxic lol. To that point I agree, why should survivors have to play worse than they can? Just like why should a killer play worse than they can?
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Repairing a Generator Great Success Reward: +1 %
Stake Out:
When Stake Out has at least 1 Token, Good Skill Checks consume 1 Token and are considered Great Skill Checks, granting an additional Progression bonus of +1 %.
Great Skill Checks do not consume any Tokens.
Hyperfocus:
Succeeding a Great Skill Check while repairing or healing grants +1 Token, up to a maximum of 6 Tokens:
Increases the Skill Check Trigger odds and Pointer Rotation speed by +4 % per Token each, up to a maximum of +24 %.
Increases the Skill Check Bonus progression by 30 % of its base value per Token, up to a maximum of 180 %.
Hyperfocus loses all Tokens after succeeding just a Good Skill Check, failing one, or if the action is interrupted by any means.
Fast Track:
Whenever a Survivor other than yourself is hooked, Fast Track is granted 3 Token(s) up to a maximum of 27 Tokens.
Succeeding a Great Repair Skill Check consumes all accumulated Tokens.
Increases the bonus Progression awarded for succeeding that Skill Check by a stack-able +1 % per Token.
Repairing a Generator with a Toolbox Trigger Chance: 40 %
If you combine all of this with Bardic Inspiration, Autodidact, Deadline, Corrective Action, Fogwise, you will never go back to Prove Thy Self, Resilience, Deja Vu, or none of that.
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So they can tell you GGEZ and get good and laugh while bagging you on the way out the gate.
Basically, the community thinks you should sacrifice your fun and how well you can perform so the survivors can have fun with you and call you bad when the match is over.
Have you not noticed the only time the survivors ever say GG is when they beat you but never when you beat them? Losing is not fun for them just like how losing is not fun for you, but no one cares if the killer has fun because fun is only meant to be had for one side.
When you have fun, the survivors are not having fun and that is just toxic, and you are just being very selfish for only caring if you have fun just like how they only care if they have fun while speed running you.
And if you do anything that slows the game down, or bring anything that slows the game down, and prevent them from speed running you then that is just unacceptable and is in dire need of a nerf.
And if you do not get nerfed or what you bring does not get nerfed then they will DC vs you until the devs give them their way just like how some parents will spoil a child rotten to the core. And the more the spoiled child gets, the more they will demand until the parent finally breaks down and finally says no.
BHVR has tried to say no to the spoiled children, but the spoiled kids threaten them with bad reviews and boycotting if they do not give them everything they want and currently have BHVR walking on eggshells.
We truly should take some notes from the survivor mains honestly lol. You want a buff? Cry as one until the voices combined reach the heavens. Threaten to hurt the devs pockets like the survivor mains do, it sure seems to be working for them.
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This is precisely why Sole Survivor+Wake Up+Resilience isn't the craziest idea in the world if you ask me.
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If I would have said good things about survivors it would have been praise from all directions though because that's how it goes when it comes to DBD.
The killers are the minority, and survivors are the majority of the player count so of course it is not popular to tell the truth and say it like it is.
Of course the devs are always going to side with survivors a bit more than killer because they like money and if you upset the majority of the player count that's not exactly good for business, is it?
But the devs can't 100% side with only survivors they have to give the killer mains the illusion that what they say matters as well.
So, the devs primarily give survivors just about any and everything they want and then they focus on killer main voices little by little.
That is why it takes soo long for good survivor perks and maps to get balanced in comparison to killer perks and maps because the majority always comes 1st and the minority comes after that is just how it works.
The devs dethroned DH and for doing so destroyed the entire killer meta in exchange and then gave survivors 100 Endurance perks to make up for it. (Not literally 100 Endurance Perks but give it time)
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
It is my understanding that most players queue as both roles, and a minority of players stick to only one role. Regardless of this, the reality is survivors are more valuable than killers as you need more people willing to play the survivor role to make the game work.
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Thank you I am in 100% full agreement.
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Because I forgot to post it yesterday, Part 2
Legend: Killer - Map - Survived or not - Gens Done - Total survivors escaped - Extra tid bits
Meta: Cybil: [Windows, Off the Record, Lithe, Adrenaline] Offering: Sacrifical ward
Offering: Sacrificial Ward
1: Tiffany - Yamoka Estate - Died - 5/5 - 3/4 - Note: none
2: Wraith - Forgotten Ruins - Died - 3/5 - 0/4 - Note: none
3: Freddy - Eyre of Crows - Escaped/Hatch - 2/5 - 1/4 - Note: Seemed we joined a wanabie bully squad from the perks and coordination and what we saw them doing. No tears were shed at their deaths. Especially since they failed to save me when they tried their stunts.
4: [Note: Ran outta sacrificial wards at this point and am impatient to look for more] Deathslinger - Rottenfields - escaped/hatch - 3/5 - 1/4 - Note: Got a key from a box to open hatch.
5: Demogorgon - Azarovs Resting Place - Died - 4/5 - 0/4 Note: Basic [Beep] Build but the team kinda...stopped working after 3 gens poped quickly. Then people started dying~
6: Slinger - RPD East - Died - 2/5 - 0/4 - Note: Killer seemed angry about somethin. Not the map either since he put the offering and brought a build for it.
7: Wesker - The Game - Escaped - 5/5 - 4/4 - Note: Did not defend the gens at all.
8: Twins (...i need a lottery ticket) - Grim Pantry - Escaped - 5/5 - 2/4 - Note: ...I need a bloody lottery ticket
9: Nurse - Torment Creek - Died - 2/4 - 4/4 - Note: None
10: Bubba - RPD West - Escaped - 5/5 - 3/4 - Note: Clever buildOverall: Aside from the variety, which is new, the match quality is the same.
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I did say I am an entitled killer main lol
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Of the almost 150 survivor perks only 10-15 are good and need to be paired with others. as killers 128 pool 20 or so are greats and most can be used by them selves to be good.
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Can you list the perks for both survivor and killer?
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As much as people call me an entitled killer main, I do think some killers in this game are 100% busted and need to be toned down.
Nuse: There is no misdirecting a "good" Nurse main, she breaks the game in terms of chase.
Blight: Nerf? What nerf? lol the nerfs made him better.
Hillbilly: A killer with no downside and gets rewarded even more map mobility and turn rate just for ability spamming hit or miss.
People always talk about skill in this game and defend Hillbilly lol.
Spirit: Can't outrun her and she has add-ons to make it impossible to mind game her in a loop.
Plague: With her Iri add-on she has zero counterplay, cleanse and give her ranged attack, complete a generator and give her the ranged attack, don't cleanse and stay one hit all game you get screwed both ways lol.
We have busted killers, busted maps for survivors, and a meta that never changes for survivors.
So, nerf busted killers, buff the trash killers, rework the busted survivor maps, and actually shake up the survivor meta for once.
That is all I really want but I guess that is the entitled killer main in me speaking.
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