Making Slugging the last two Survivors engaging for both sides.
Without a doubt I am certain the vast majority of those who play(ed) Survivor know that when the last two Survivors are left (regardless of how many gens are done) the Killer will slug nearly every time. Especially with the new mori system it'll only prove to incentivise slugging.
Hence, I am not imply slugging should be removed. I think it's practically impossible to prevent slugging to begin with. Also the chases can be fun assuming you aren't the one on the ground.
Instead, I think slugging should be made more engaging for both sides.
My idea revolves around a mechanic that only applies when there are only "TWO" Survivors left in a trial.
I have two suggestions(Assuming there are only two Survivors left):
- Similar to anti-face camping on hooks, if the Killer leaves an explicit radius around the Survivor… A meter will fill up allowing a Survivor to pick themselves up one health state.
- Alternatively, it can be made base-kit for Survivors to be able to pick themselves up once per trial. Assuming their are only two Survivors left in a trial.
Why do I think these two idea would be beneficial to the game? It doesn't stop a Killer from slugging at three Survivors, but with three Survivors there is still a fighting chance(in my opinion). Once you hit two Survivors, generally speaking it's a matter of who's going to get hatch.
What Killers will do at the last two Survivors is to slug both. Denying the last Survivor even a fair opportunity at getting hatch. It's birthed from desperation and a lack of consequence. Killers have zero reason not to deny hatch before it even spawn.
I believe in using one of those two ideas would encourage Killers to either hook. Giving "at-minimum" the base opportunity for the last Survivor to attempt to escape through hatch. Alternatively, if the Killer chooses to slug it'll give the Survivors the opportunity to still look forward to participating in the trial. Even if all the same they both die. At least it was far more engaging and fun than bleeding out to death in a corner.
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- Similar to anti-face camping on hooks, if the Killer leaves an explicit radius around the Survivor… A meter will fill up allowing a Survivor to pick themselves up one health state.
- Alternatively, it can be made base-kit for Survivors to be able to pick themselves up once per trial. Assuming their are only two Survivors left in a trial.
Both of these will result in the Killer just being forced to sit over the survivor for the same outcome. The exit gates can still not be opened until gens are completed and the hatch is still not on the map. The problem is that the devs have backed themselves into a corner where the survivors are stuck for 4 minutes in the downed state which is a long time but nowhere near enough time to do multiple generators. At the same time hooking the downed survivor immediately puts the killer at a disadvantage because typically they're just waiting at one of the exit gates creating a 50/50 escape situation. That AND the killer has the added task of having to consider hatch being on the map as well. The design of the game aggressively funnels Killers into participating in a behavior that the players collectively agree isn't positive to the overall experience. This is indication of nothing more than bad design.
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I really like what you said and thank you for giving valuable feedback. 😁
In many cases the 50/50 is straight up correct but it really is map dependant still. There are maps where the the exit gates for that Trial are literally right next to each other. On smaller maps it's also more difficult to pull off an escape.
I do see many Survivors (spectating) not even bother to go for hatch. They'll just sit at an exit gate and hope for the best. I know I've personally done this and sometimes I get out. Although, I only do this when I know the Killer is basically search one half of the map and I've been searching the other half with no luck of hatch. At that point I am fairly certain I got unlucky and the Killer is going to find hatch in the next few moments. Hence, I rush over to a exit gate. Plus, Killers will often sit on hatch so they can slam it in my face so I've learned to just try my luck at the exit gate lol.
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The point about Killer sitting on a Survivor until they bleed out or staying within radius. Does bring up a problem. Hence this is why I kinda like the number two idea a bit more. Once per trial allowing the last two Survivors to pick themselves up once from the dying state. With what you said I'm inclined to even throw in a few seconds of endurance to ensure sitting on a Survivor is not abused.
Now, you got me thinking… What if that Killer really wants to down that Survivor again and just waits for the revive and hits them again. If they have endurance just chase and down them again. Now they don't have access to that self revive and the problem of sitting their until you bleed out or the other Survivor is downed is a problem once again.
Maybe make it so after a Survivor picks themselves back up… The next time the Killer downs them an automatic mori occurs. The only issue with that is the Killer may just wait for the Survivor to pick themselves back up and proceed to get a mori.
So, perhaps scrap both my ideas… When a there are specifically only two Survivors left in a trial. Allow the Survivor that had been downed the ability to sacrifice themselves. Not right away because this will be abused but the Survivor will have option to heal as normal BUT after around a minute for instance(or 50-70 seconds) a Survivor can sacrifice themselves. It'd even be cool if a sorta sacrificial mori was made for this instance.
What do you think about that? After a minute or two allowing the Survivor to sacrifice themselves instead of bleeding out for 4 minutes. Tell me what you think it could work or not… I'm genuinely interested in finding ideas to make it more engaging for both sides. Although, I don't want to punish Killers it's a bit unfair to suggest Killers would be punished when Survivors off the bat are punished. I know Survivors enjoy the game more when I hook the second to last Survivor(sacrificing them) and that hunt for hatch begins. I've tested it out and I get ggs nearly every time I do that. When I do slugging I rarely get a gg and it's more toxic. Plus hunting down hatch and the last Survivor is far more fun and adrenaline inducing than trying to slug for me. Additionally, 3k is an automatic win in the mmr system. So I have zero reason to guarantee a 4k. Why not make the 1v1 more fun for both sides if I already "technically" won. There is far more at stake for the Survivor than for me, ya get what I mean?
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Slugging for the 4k will indeed get worse if the Finisher Mori system sees the light of day as it is, anyone who played more than a dozen Survivor pub games understands that (which is why the majority are rejecting this 2nd attempt from the devs to implement this). In an ideal scenario the Finisher Mori would never exist.
However, I have a possible idea to keep Finisher Mori BUT make it healthier;
What if you can Mori the last Survivor by your hand without needing a perk/offering BUT can only do so if said Survivor was downed AFTER hatch spawned (which means either a 3k was already achieved or everybody else got out). A Mori made in this fashion would offer a massive BP boost (further enhanced by Mori offerings which would keep their old effect alongside giving an incrementally higher BP bonus depending on rarity). If the last Survivor is slugged when Hatch spawns, the Mori would become unavailable for this trial (to prevent Killers from simply slugging both and hooking one before letting the last wiggle off so they can mori them).
This would incentivize people to NOT slug for the 4k and play the match in it's entirety. This wouldn't affect those that already slugged for the 4k but would reward those that don't and take a gamble to win the Hatch race. This keeps the Finisher Mori but is also healthy for everyone.
Alternatively (and honestly it would be better) the idea of Finisher Mori as a whole should be scrapped but a way for Survivors to not have to deal with excessive slugging, an "insta-bleedout " button should be given if certain conditions are met and a Survivor is downed;
If only 2 Survivors remain.
If all remaining Survivors are incapable of playing (either downed or hooked/caged).
If slugged for 2m+ (how often does anyone gets slugged for 2+ minutes unless the Killer is either slugging for the 4k, trolling, or purposefully going for a slugfest after tunnelling the first Survivor?).
Especially since the devs apparently want to encourage slugging for the 4k with their insistance on pushing the Finisher Mori system, there should be a way to go next without having to twiddle your thumbs for 4 minutes almost every games.
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Just let slugged Survivors progress gens and exit gates, and have a 5s CD for slugs when they let go of an action. That way if the Killer has a grab denied into swing, they still have time to pick them up.
You could even lock this behind reaching 50% recovery progress first, that way we don't impact normal gameplay. However, if this is done, I'd recommend a 1% repair/gate open boost per second slugged, while also revealing the aura of Survivors at 50%+.
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You know, you're putting a band aid on the issue, not fixing it. Do you know why killer do that? Because the 2 last survivors are playing hide and seek hoping the other die first so they can get the hatch. Maybe fix this behavior first before blaming killers, again.
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This is a double edge argument. I agree Survivors do play hide-n-seek more often than not at the end.
For me personally if there is one gen left. I'll do my best to get that one gen done. I also see other Survivors do this as well. I've had a few times where the random and I clutched an escape. Although I agree most people just play hide-n-seek.
Here's the thing. Survivors only hide and wait because they know the Killer is going to aggressively rotate to each remaining gen. The risk of getting caught doing gens increases with how many gens are left and if you are 3 gen'd. If it's a smaller map it again amps up the difficulty.
Therefore the remaining Survivors "need" to hide. Many times I had to hide for minutes because the gens were so close and the Killer was rotating between the gens so fast it was impractical to even get on one for more than a few moments. Not saying Killers are too sweaty but they are very "determined" lol.
Yet most of all, Survivors tend to hide because we know what's coming. Despite a 3k being a win for the Killer. Most Killers aren't satisfied unless they get the 4k. Many times I have opted to sacrifice myself whilst there are only two remaining Survivors and the other was in chase and on death hook. Hence, I either body blocked the Killer(taking the hit) or took chase accepting my fate. Yet does the Killer hook me? No, he immediately proceeds to hunt down the other Survivor.
It's not about blaming Killers but a fact is a fact. Those who play Killer regardless of finger pointing… take advantage of the system in order to deny the last Survivor the opportunity to even have the "minimum chance" to try and get hatch. Please note below, hatch is not a 'win' for the Survivor. It's literally considered a draw. It's not about mmr but it's clear here what the Devs intend the win conditions to be.
The developers aren't forcing Killers to slug at the end of a game. They designed the game to be played a certain way. The killer is meant to hook the Survivor. It's the refusal to participate in normal gameplay that has led to this issue. If Killers simply hooked instead of so desperately wanting the 4k… This whole post would be obsolete. If the Devs intended for slugging? Why even implement hatch, hmm. They intended for the last Survivor to have an opportunity to get hatch. It's basically meant to be a 1v1 at the end if you think about it.
You will never get rid of slugging. There is no fix nor band-aid that can cure slugging. Although if we allow for Survivors to punish slugging via being able to pick themselves up after a fixed period of time or the option to self sacrifice after a few minutes… This will increase the rate at which the last Survivor can at "MINIMUM" have the opportunity to even try to go for hatch. Either that or the Killers will start hooking more and the slugging will be more situational. Which is fine with me. If the Killer slugs the last two Survivors next to each other and hooks/moris them. I have no issues with this. *edit: I want to add my post is not about giving an opportunity for the Survivors to "win". It's about not wasting people's time. No one wants to have their fun time wasted and if you are sitting on limited time to play a few matches… You don't want to sit their while another person(Killer) goes picking flowers looking for the other Survivor, ya get what I mean.
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A loss or a win toward an invisible number you have no real interaction with feels inconsequential.
Killers are supposed to kill survivors. Killing more survivors feels like winning more decisively. People like winning in PVP activities. Making 4ks impossible and telling killers that they'll take their 2ks and be happy with it is incredibly clumsy and counterintuitive.
Also I wouldn't say most killers aren't satisfied unless they get the 4k. I know I don't care. If it were happening most games you'd get more slugging for the 4k, which equates to more time on the ground and the stats do not bear that out. Sorry. But I also understand why some go for it and don't blame them.
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"Here's the thing. Survivors only hide and wait because they know the Killer is going to aggressively rotate to each remaining gen. The risk of getting caught doing gens increases with how many gens are left and if you are 3 gen'd. If it's a smaller map it again amps up the difficulty."
See that's survivor skill issue. They just do gen, they don't think about how gen placement play a role. I use that a lot as a killer. I see people being try hard gen rushers? I control them to repair gen far and leave the 3 last gen practically next to each other, at this point their game is lost. Survivor need to understand gen repair placement matters. There's nothing to fix there, just people need to understand game mechanics.
As a survivor I always aim to do gen at the middle of the map first because that only leave gens on the edges by the end of the game which is way harder to patrol. If you get 2 gens opposite of each other at the end it's very hard to cover for most killer if 2 people start repairing those 2 opposite gens.
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That's chill if you don't care but it's clear that "most" do care. I personally don't care for the 4k either but I find you and I are in the minority. I think it's disingenuous to say that most Killers don't care about the 4k. When 7/10 games it's clear the Killer wants it. Of course in lower mmr you'll have Killers just wanting to have fun.
Mind you I specifically said regardless of MMR. My comment and implementation of the screenshot was not to bring up mmr. I even clarified this and how I am talking about the win condition. How it's been set by the Devs very clearly. In DBD there are win conditions regardless if you care about mmr or not. If you want to play your way that's fine as well but it doesn't change the official win condition and I don't agree people should just play how they want as if it's the official standard because that is, if not, one of the leading contributors to toxicity in the community. As people can't decide one what is a win or not. Leading to frustrations on both sides.
As for "Killers are supposed to kill Survivors." I was literally going to add a bit about this but I thought nah it's too cliché for me to assume the other guy is going to actually say this, but you did lmao. Letters on a screen can come off not as intended. So please don't take this as an insult if you do. I just got a little giggle out of this but it's not laughing at you.
I didn't add this part but I was going to say in my comment… It's how Killers think, "Killers are supposed to kill Survivors"(literally word for word) and it's the Survivors job to hide, repair gens and attempt to escape (unhook etc). Although here you are saying Killers job is to kill. Is there any way for Survivors to prevent the Killer from participating in the match? What I mean, is there any method similar to how slugging prevents a Survivor from participating in the match. Can I as a Survivor prevent the Killer from participating in chases or interacting with the game. Do I prevent the Killer from hunting, picking up survivors, hitting gens? No…
Flashlights, sabo and protection hits are intended mechanics in the game and technically you could argue that slugging is a part of the game as well in some aspects. I would like to clarify I do think there is a time and place to slug and it's 100% justified. Although, doing gens, unhooking etc… doesn't prevent the Killer from participating in the match. Where as slugging nearly removes all ability to participate in the trial for a Survivor.
As for stats I don't know what stats you've seen as most stats should be taken with a grain of salt. I've seen statements by the Devs about the percentage and combined time on the ground. Although these are averages. As well this is a fallacy. Of course majority of the times a Killer will pick up a Survivor. When you have 4 Survivors in a trial. Majority of the those downs if not 99.99% of them are followed by a hook. So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your stats do not reflect what we are talking about here.
The issue is not on the general consensus of slugging. It's regarding a situational event that takes place when there are specifically only two Survivors left. You are comparing apples to oranges. If the Devs restricted the stats to the percentage/time spent downed when two Survivors are left in a trial. You'll find that 43% and 24% becomes much much greater. I literally have zero doubts about this. It wouldn't even be gambling money at that point if it was a bet. You'd be guaranteed to win. Mate I live it nearly every time I am one of the last two left. It's just facts. I see it even when I spectate and I spectate 9/10 of my matches to the very end.
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PLEASE READ THIS important
***If you do statistics you'll learn that you can not take such broad general data and say here is the answer when asking a very specific question that has parameters. If I asked how long do Survivors spend on the ground on average during a trial? That is a general enough question that the stats DBD provides is sufficient. If I asked how many chests are opened during the trial on average? Again a general question. Although if I ask, "How many chests are opened during the endgame collapse?" Well now that is a far more specific question that has specific parameters set in place. I have to eliminate the noise that is everything prior to the endgame collapse. I hope this helps you understand better why grabbing generic statistics is not an appropriate argument.
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The issue with people just needing to understand and it's a skill issue. Is pretty correct. I'd agree people need to understand gen placement a bit better. It's not easy to keep track of gens sometimes but keeping a mental note of gens that pop and their general location is definitely related to the skill issue you speak off.
My comment was not on the placement as much as it was about how difficult it is for Survivors to pick up gens. If you have 3+ gens to do and two Survivors left. It's rough but if you got 1-2 gens left it's doable and can be a fun challenge. Definitely skill mixed with some RNG plays are role here.
Although, when you "solo-queue" a lot of this is thrown out the window. Sometimes you don't get to choose what gens you do because the Killer applies pressure. Your teammate is not paying attention. It's not SWF so it's not like you can ask your teammates what gens have been done if you forget.
I agree with you on doing the middle gen. If no one is doing middle I'll gravitate towards that one. For the exact same reason.
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Sorry it got delete for me but basically I think it's ridiculous that people would be upset at a tie. If you got a 2k it simply meant you had a challenging match and maybe should acknowledge the remaining two Survivors played well. Maybe the whole team played well and as a side effect (despite your skill) two Survivors escaped. A less competent team would of died but they Survived so I say bravo.
Although sometimes getting a draw in competitive games can be frustrating you have to remember you don't deserve to win. So ya, be happy with the 2k when possible. Although it's a play on words with what you did. You made it seem like Killers should just get 2k and be happy but if I were to correct your statement. It'd be more like this, "take their 3k and be happy." This stands true for me. Stop worrying about the 4k and take the 3k and be happy. If you get a 4k, awesome!
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Basekit UB suggsestion again? no. No this is bad, it will be abused by survivors in an instant.
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So if a Survivor only gets one self revive. This specifically only activates when the last two Survivors are alive. Not 3 or 4 but only 2 Survivors are left.
Only and only then could a Survivor pick themselves up "one health-state".
OR
Allowing a Survivor to self sacrifice themselves after a couple of minutes of being left on the ground. *(again only activates with two survivors left in the trial)*
All I got from you was no cause no. Please explain what you don't agree with. What part of my idea do you find will be abused?
EDIT* I'm beginning to understand why nothing really gets proper feedback in the forums. It's dawning on me that a large portion of responses I see on posts (even mine) are from Killer mains. The realisation that I'm talking to the people that "of course" don't want what I'm saying.
Post edited by Sow on0 -
Alright. When there's two survivors in the game then one of them randomly escapes. They're just dropped outside the gate or whatever. The entity gives them a gold star for being a good and lucky boy. This is what you're asking for with extra, inane steps.
Personally I don't care enough to argue against it. Again I don't really slug for the 4k and almost always let the last survivor go.
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And there we have it, if someone disagrees they must be biased.
What about all the 4k challenges? If you make it impossible to 4k essentially (because people can get up over and over again, even when its only 2 left) or even them sacrificing themselves so the other might get hatch, ofc as a survivor main you dont see a problem here (see im using the same divisive language like you just did, which kinda ruined all credibillity you had).
Fact is, mostly survivors AND killers are too stubborn to just end the game. Why does the survivor side get a feature to help them in this case?2 -
I don't understand? I really don't get it. I explicitly said one time. Do you understand the word… one. Genuine question because I don't understand how you got the pick up over and over again.
I am in no way saying they deserve hatch. It's not impossible to 4k again you are using your own "divisive language". Also you aren't doing anything to discredit me. Matter of fact I have asked you to disprove me a couple times now and you failed. Also, you failed to prove how my idea would be abused or how it would negatively impact the game. That it would do more harm than good even. Plus, you tried to imply that I'm suggesting Survivors deserve hatch and making it "impossible" for killers to get a 4k. This is ridiculous, are you saying the only way a Killer can get a 4k is if they deny hatch before it even spawn by slugging the last two Survivors, hmm? Mate, the reason why your manipulative language fails is because I'm just saying it as it is. While you are trying to silver tongued bend things without actually disproving anything I've said.
I'm by far not being anywhere close to stubborn as well. I am literally speaking to the fact that when the Killer slugs the last two remaining Survivors. They are intentionally doing so to deny hatch even spawning. Am I entitled for wanting the base opportunity to be given for the last Survivor to try and get hatch(as the Developers intended). The hatch was implemented into the game for this very reason. Hatch isn't a win for the Survivor, it's a draw for them. I don't follow yours or others personal preferences of what a win-condition is(it's cool if you have those) but the Devs explicitly state what a win-condition is. That's the standard to which I judge the gameplay with. I find it to be fair. A 3k is a win for the Killer. Hatch is a tie for Survivor. The only win is when a Survivor escapes via the exit gates. It's obnoxious and spoiled to think a Killer can only win at a 4k. I think that's really unfair to Killers. Sincerely do you think a 3k is not a fair win-condition?
It's not biased when it's become readily apparent that the majority of those that I interact with on these Forums are Killer mains first Survivors second.
Also, where did you get this impossible 4k? What issue do you have with a Survivor not wanting to sit around twiddling their thumbs as they wait for the Killer to find the other Survivor? You failed to express how it'd be abused in accordance with my parameters. So please explain why a Survivor can't sacrifice themselves after a few minutes or pick themselves up "ONCE" from the dying state(one health state, so they'd be injured still)? I'm truly asking you to show me why this would do more harm than good?
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YOUR QUESTION…
I'll answer your question "Why does the survivor side get a feature to help them in this case?" Despite I've answered this number of times above…
Forgive me but I want to clarify the question more. Why does the Survivor side get a feature to help them in this case? The case being when there are explicitly "two" Survivors left in a trial. Why should they get the ability to self revive "once" per trial and or be able to sacrifice themselves after a few minutes. I think that's fair to clarify.
We can start with hatch. By slugging the last two the Killer denies hatch even spawning. Essentially, barring a feature of the game from even taking place. Denying the last Survivor the "base" opportunity to even go for hatch.
I want to clarify when I say base I mean the literal opportunity to even go for hatch. The first example that comes to mind is going for a job interview and before you even got go for the interview you were denied. You didn't even get the opportunity to even attempt the interview. If this happens to someone in real life I'm so sorry lol.
It's not about giving hatch to the last Survivor. It's about giving them the base-intended opportunity to even try to go for hatch. Do you understand what I mean by that? If not I can attempt to clarify it better.
Alternatively, it's about making the fight more engaging. Giving the downed Survivor a self pick up once per trial assuming the conditions are met(2 Survivors left in trial) allows them to still participate in the trial. Which is better than twiddling their thumbs. It's not fun nor is it engaging laying there. In fact I'll tell you something I already said in one of the first comments on this Discussion regarding a flaw with this idea. One of the potential issues is that a Killer may wait for the self revive then down the Survivor again meaning we are back to square one. I don't know why this was difficult for you to say, it's an obvious one I think.
Hence, I kinda like option two a bit more. The ability to sacrifice yourself while downed was an option(again assuming the conditions are met 2 survivors left in trial) then the Survivor can initiate the hatch part of endgame. This doesn't have to occur and if a Survivor "chooses" to stay they can. It's not a forced mechanic but an optional one. For those who don't want to sit in the downed state for 4 minutes. It may not seem like a lot of time but that is nearly half the time of an average trial. Being that trials can last on average 10 minutes above or below. Meaning when the Killer slugs one of the two remaining Survivors on the ground… They are essentially robbing you of half of a trials length almost. Most times you wont bleed out and the other Survivor will be downed before the 4 minutes mark which actually brings me to the next issue.
When you deny hatch and slug. there is a good chance that Survivor will have to hide or loop for 4 minutes straight. This is at endgame where there generally are a lack of pallets. Meaning Survivors are more likely to go down much sooner. Additionally that means the Survivor has to not only evade the Killer for 4 minutes assuming they don't hook but they also have to then search for hatch. Even if the Killer comes back in 2-3 minutes to hook the Survivor because they couldn't find the other one. It's still not fun.
It's funny I'm talking about fun and you are concerned about Killers "win". I'm not even talking about the Survivor getting hatch or deserving the win just for them to have a more engaging and fun experience. You are more concerned about a Killer getting a 4k. I'm not even talking about Survivors winning. I don't care if I get hatch or die in the end. I just want to not waste my time or I want to have the base-intended chance to even attempt to get hatch. If I get it cool if not at least it was a fun little 1v1 at the end.
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I'm glad you don't slug for the 4k. I'm sure your Survivors are far less toxic. At least I hope so.
I don't care if I get hatch. I just want to at least have the base opportunity to even look for it. Usually when I get trials where hatch spawns, generally speaking the Killer has a mori. Although, it's the most fun and engaging 1v1 for me. It's like who's going to find hatch first. Then if they get hatch first, can I open the exit gate in time. Sometimes it's juggling finding hatch while being chased. It's just so much more memorable and engaging even if you die in the end.
I don't want UB to be a basekit perk. Like I don't want the additional speed etc… More just a conditional situation but it has flaws. Which is why I favour my second idea that after a couple minutes you can sacrifice yourself. It's a game after all and people don't want to feel like their time is being wasted.
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Its insane how you can write down so much and actually say so little.
Also Loads of assumptions and words putting in my mouth AGAIN.
I will stand by with what i initially said before it gets too complicated, no matter how hard you try to derive the point:
BOTH sides are stubborn in a scenario like this. Giving the survivors a basekit unbreakable is just implying the killers are at fault here, when its equally the survivors too that just hide and wait for hatch, not touching gens at all and dragging the game into length. And yeah you claim "but they only do it because killers slugg" which is funny because they have not been slugged yet even.
So again, when its both sides fault, why do the survivor get a cake for it? Try to explain it without another textwall of nothingness.
Also you say this:- "It's not biased when it's become readily apparent that the majority of those that I interact with on these Forums are Killer mains first Survivors second."
Funny how my experience is the exact opposite. Yet im not the one who started saying you are a "survivor main", you claimed im biased for killers with only 1 comment of mine, clearly showing your own tribalism. Which is so stupid ( NOT YOU, the tribalism in general i call stupid) because majority of people does play both sides, very view stick to 50% of the game and only ever touch the other side. It should be MORE people that play both sides, there is still alot that only ever experience their sides issiues. But if you are so fixated in putting me in some sort of category and deciding alredy where my views are, from only 1 single comment.. I cant take you serious then, sorry. You are the very issiue that you are ranting about.
Also another Note: Its even sad you decide to stick to tribalising me because with your second point i can resonate very mutch. "Surrender button" or something like that with a timer after x amount of seconds no progress in either hooks or gens when only 2 survivors are left. Whatever.
But i dont agree with your first suggsestion, not at all. And my reasoning is above.1 -
You are right and I'm sorry for categorising you as a Killer main. I personally am not a Survivor main either. I play both sides but I definitely lean towards Survivor more. I play more Killer when I want to take a break from Survivor… Just goof around with Huntress etc…
Overall I can see your point with the self res. I don't want UB in the game as a basekit. I don't want the speed increased etc… It is flawed but it's an option that could make the endgame more engaging for the Survivor that is just laying there unable to do much.
It's not my intention to do a textwall lol. Sometimes you just get carried away.
Although, we both are putting words in each other mouth.
How about we start fresh on this topic… I genuinely want to find a feature that doesn't deprive Killers of their fun but still I don't think anyone enjoys laying there bleeding out.
You said you like the second idea. Scrap the self revive. Do you think the ability to sacrifice yourself after a period of time is a viable option? What conditions do you think should be met first?
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It does happen like that, sometimes small disagreements can revolve into big opposing camps XD I were also at fault for assumptions like i thought you meant the abillity to pick them up over and over again and not only once (i would still not like it the one time and would find it unfair towards the killer, but thats were we can just agree to disagree)
I would say the condition for the surrender button would be:
"Once only 2 survivors are left in the trial and 3 minutes have passed. Survivors gain the abillity to call upon the entity and sacrifice themselves." It could even be the same animation as like the endgame collapse timer ran out. So there is not unneccessary animation work involved. The 3 minutes are just a number that could be replaced with litteraly any number, i wouldnt go less than that though.
Most importantly though these self sacrifices should not be counted as kills towards the killers MMR because technicly the survivors could still escape through the exit gates (if gens are done, if not yeah the killer has technicly won anyway) Vice versa they shouldnt count as loss towards the survivors MMR either. They should be treated like hatch. A draw. And the tome challenges should just be changed honestly. 4k challenges are unhealthy for the game because in order to not have a game of luck determine wether or not they get challenges, as a killer you are inclined to really slugg for it. To deny hatch like you also stated.
But there are alot of abmyssal tome challenges anyway, on survivor side too. Some even outdated to a point where they become near impossible.1 -
That's why I alternate through Killer and Survivor challenges on the Rift. Sometimes there is that "path of least resistance" to be found. During the Lights Out v2 event that's what I did because some of those challenges were hurting my brain.
I think 3 minutes fair. Although that's what the PTB would be for. To see what the appropriate time should be. Unfortunate I don't think this will make it into a PTB even.
I like that the sacrifice doesn't count as a kill. Encouraging Killers to hook. If they don't find the other Survivor in a couple of minutes they may opt to hook the Survivor or allow them to Sacrifice themselves. It basically time gates the slugging period. Also it is a bit of a risk and reward system. Although it keeps the advantage in the Killer side and gives a bit of a head start before hatch.
The draw part like hatch is nice. I can see some people abusing this as well but I think more often than not players will opt to sacrifice.
Also the animation part would save time on implementing the feature, but it would be cool if there was a self-mori animation.
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I just really like the 1v1 going for hatch. Spectating others after I sacrifice myself on hook is fun to see as well. I've seen the craziest hatch escapes!
I was on hook a Claudette crawled half way across the map to my hook. The Killer was looking on the opposite side of the map for her without knowing she was already next to me. As soon as I died hatch spawned I kid you not a meter away from her. She crawled down that hatch so fast lmao.
Perhaps I'm a bit biased to the hatch because I've just seen the funniest and coolest hatch escapes/denies or stand offs that I wish others got to experience them more.
Maybe that should be a gamemode… Hatch standoff 1v1. Custom map as well.
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