http://dbd.game/killswitch
Stop having rift challenges tied to the EXIT gates
I don't care how hard you want to make it, something like "Unhook someone while gates are powered and safely" is insane. How often do survivors even open gates? Let alone someone gets hooked again.
really crappy game design. crappier that its tied to the rift pass (paid product). I will not buy the next pass cause of this.
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I agree, honestly.
Though you can skip it and grind the shards you'd miss out on, so being a rift thing isn't a problem. The real problem is how it completely goes against how endgame saves usually go.2 -
I agree, this is even worse for killers.
Some killer challenges requires hooking or sacrificing during the endgame collapse. That means if the killer wants to actively finish that task, they literally have to go against how the game is supposed to be played (i.e. not kill everybody, but instead let them open exit gates to start the collapse).
Sacrificing during the endgame collapse is the worst, however, as you may be lucky enough to get somebody after gates open, but then they might not even be on 2ed hook stage, so they could get rescued and leave you with nothing.
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Sorry to be that guy⦠but you're referring to this?:
Last Minute Hero
Safely unhook 1 Survivor after the Endgame Collapse has begun.
Are you sure you're not tilted and just need a break? I'm not trying to be an arse at allβ¦ but this isn't even hard to doβ¦ I did it in pretty much my first attempt, and didn't even blink when I saw it in the listβ¦.
Any game where you get gates powered with more than one survivor alive you can do this⦠and is certainly not uncommon to have multiple survivors alive at end game. Its a 60% kill rate afterall, you'll get a game where you're there at end game with more than 1 person alive, and you can easily just throw yourself at it to get the unhook⦠take No One Left Behind, Overcome and Borrowed Time/Babysitter, maybe PlotTwist/Self Care to make sure you can be fully healed, and even if the killer finds you after opening gate, unless they are an instantdown killer, they can't stop your safe unhook.
99ing the gate is rarely actually required in most scenarios, and tbh, is probably not a good idea a lot of the time. Just opening the gates is the safer move so that you can't possibly screw up the sprint to the exit, and you still have 4 minutes to make the unhook⦠Blood Warden is possible, but it's far from common enough to realistically worry about.
Accounting for more than one player, any player with an ounce of intelligence against the killer will wait for you before they go for the unhook, as you need 2 to pull it off successfully. You can even exploit that and just open the gate, and again instead of doing it the correct way (take a hit and run while your ally unhooks), just run up, tank the hit and unhook raw. Whether you escape or not doesn't matter if you want the challenge doneβ¦
Honestly I find the iridescent badges harder to get⦠it doesn't seem to matter how much you do of specific actions, it seems to boil down to "dominate the game" to get either 3 or 4 iridescents or you get none⦠no in between.
EDIT: Now 2 hooks after end game collapse has started in the same trial⦠That challenge is a swine⦠I had to take Artist and keep the whole team injured on death hook and then keep a player slugged at all times until they powered the gates so I could down a player, open the gate and then get my 2 hooks. I let the other 2 go as an apology.
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"Now 2 hooks after end game collapse has started in the same trialβ¦ That challenge is a swineβ¦"
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XD
I saw and couldnt leave out how brutal that is man... like 1 is fair enough... 2 across multiple games, fine... can probably do some work with STBFL/Rapid Brutality and be alright.... but 2 in the same game!? ππππ
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yeah you're definitely being "That guy" right now.
I've spent 2 days (close to 6 hours) trying to do this and Ive set up my perks to ensure its done safely. Nothing. maybe dont gas light other peoples experiences based on your own anecdotal experience.
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I'm not trying to be a jerk man... just I don't see why this challenge is so difficult, for all the reasons I described at length in my post using objective reasoning, and I offered some suggestions and points of play to help out that worked for me... and has worked several times before with these types of challenges.
You may say my anecdotal experience doesn't matter, but by that same token, doesn't your anecdotal experience also not matter, since it is being used as your primary evidence for why this kind of challenge is a problem element of the game that should be forever removed?
I'm not trying to gas light you, gas lighting is using psychological manipulation tactics to make you question your own sanity or powers of reasoning... I have merely disagreed with you, which a totally different thing.
This is why I asked if you were tilted, because none of us are immune to tilt; we all play far worse when we get tilted, and what's worse is we don't even realise we are a lot of the time. I actually have a rule with my friends that if they can hear that I'm tilted they have to quote a certain line from AVGN at me to snap me out of tilt and remind me to take a break.
I asked because you've blown up out of the gate in this thread, started throwing statements around like "really crappy design" and "how often do survivors even open the gates?" like this challenge is impossible, when the reality is far from....
For example, taking the latter statement, Survivors must open the gates any time there is a 2k or less... we can obviously still get 3ks and 4ks while the gates are open, but for simplicity let's assume that all 3ks and 4ks are hatch games since this favours your argument. In a 2k scenario there is a reaaonably good chance another Survivor is hooked and savable.
If Nightlight is anything to go by, the gates are opened in the absolute worst case scenario 48% of the time...
You may have been exceptionally unlucky but if we assume you have a 50% chance to open the gate and a 50% chance to be one of the 2 survivors alive. That means you should get a chance 1 in every 4 games. In 6 hours you should have had close to 20 games or so... which means you should have had close to 4 or 5 chances to get it... and this is using worst case scenario stats...
So I'm not being a jerk my man, but you're clearly quite upset, maybe justifiably if your luck has been that bad. I myself have gone on 10 games losing streaks before, and that happens in any game. Howeveri t may be beneficial to take a step back and think objectively what's gone wrong with your games, and really consider if this challenge is as hard as it appears.
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naw not upset. I can call something crappy or bad game design and not be upset. Its possible to be objective about something. Your stats seem wrong. I doubt gates open 50% of the time.
Annoyed enough I gave up on this trash challenge. I played 5 games today and they have been gate escapes with 3 people. One person dying before gates open.
I even considered not opening the gate one game so the killer would kill the chase and then open the gate. See how this is bad game design? The challenge is encouraging me to literally troll the game.
btw anytime someone has to say:
I'm not being a jerk my man
usually more often than not, they've been a goon in some manner or fashion enough to annoy someone. keep going into feedback discussions and keep derailing discussions and discounting others experiences, and then saying "I'm not a jerk". That's some seriously funny ######### π
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I wasn't gonna respond further since I didn't want to escalate anything further than I may have unintentionally already done, but since you've called me out:
I can call something crappy or bad game design and not be upset. Its possible to be objective about something.
You dont seem to understand what objective is. You can of course call something crappy, but without objective argumentation, your statement is a subjective opinion.
"really crappy game design. crappier that its tied to the rift pass (paid product)." is an subjective opinion, not substantiated with fact. You need actual arguments and evidence for it to be objective, and if you are truly objective, you would be open to debate and argumentation from an opposing perspective to help define truth. That's what objective is, it has nothing to do with how you "feel", it's trying to define truth.
Your stats seem wrong. I doubt gates open 50% of the time.
Stats are stats. They are only as good as the evidence you choose to ignore, but since the target average kills per game is 2.4 from BHVRs own postings, then gates open at least 40% of the time. Given you can not have 2 people escape without the gate open and Nightlight shows we have 48% of games ending in a 2k or less, that shows a 50% gate open rate on average for all players.
This is a set of objective arguments, it's not "I think", my arguments have evidence and facts that have informed my opinion. The quality of that evidence is debatable since Nightlight is a community project, but that's the point of objective argumentation, you scrutinise the logic and evidence for its validity, but your conclusions must be drawn from fact not feelings.
Annoyed enough I gave up on this trash challenge. I played 5 games today and they have been gate escapes with 3 people. One person dying before gates open.
I even considered not opening the gate one game so the killer would kill the chase and then open the gate. See how this is bad game design? The challenge is encouraging me to literally troll the game.
You anecdotal experience still has value, and some statements here are useful. Your killers are obviously struggling quite heavily with being unable to secure a single hook at end game.
It is not unreasonable to say that something where you are forced to play in a way antithetical to your objective is problematic design, however unfortunately all we can do here is compare anecdotal experiences... but survivor being hooked at end game with the team needing to decide if they wanna make the save and reset is not a rare phenomenon in my experience... and the fact you keep reaching end game but the killer can't get a down seems to suggest you and your team are playing exceptionally well against less successful killers.
btw anytime someone has to say:
I'm not being a jerk my man
usually more often than not, they've been a goon in some manner or fashion enough to annoy someone.
And lastly to address this... we are communicating via text. You cannot read my inflections, my body language, my facial or audio cues in order to read intent, nor can I do the same for you.
You started this thread in a manner that suggests you are kinda volatile and quick to anger. I have a taken a different opinion to you, I'm not trying to annoy you, but I wanted to disagree, somethimg I have a right to do... but I knew there was a very real possibility your anger/frustration gets turned on me.
Me saying "I'm not being a jerk man" is not the result of me being a goon, it's me trying to defuse an argument before it happens, though clearly thats been in vain.
In any case. I disagree with your statement. I think this challenge is fine. Sorry you've had bad luck with it, hope you manage to get it in the near future.
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You need to realize not everyone wants to write a thesis on a video game forum. I'll just say your "style" of "discussion" is hardly "objective".
Since you insist though.
This challenge requires a safe unhook after gates open. We can derive some empirical observations from this,
- This is one of the few challenges requiring certain circumstances that are not prevalent in every match, i.e. gates opening or another survivor
- It also requires that someone be on the hook while gates open and that you unhook. Too many scenarios to list out but this requires 2-3 people plus the killer
- The chances of this happening every match is no more than 50% due to win rates and the "setup" required. I'd guess drastically lower than 50%
- This challenge is not skill focused like the other challenges, it is heavily heavily dependent on circumstances out of the players control
- This requires more time due to "bad luck" scenarios for players and reaching gate opening
- To increase the chances of the above circumstances, as a survivor, your only recourse is to "troll" the game (delay opening gates or leave someone on the hook, then open gates, not heal someone after all generators are created)
- There are no positive actions as a survivor that you can do to increase the chances of the circumstances besides opening the gate
- all other actions to increase the likelihood of an unsafe hook after gates opening require you to troll the game
From these empirical observations, the average player attempting this challenge (and other feedback in the thread) have mentioned this causes "toxic" behavior. Other gate related challenges for the killer and etc encourage players to play the game in such a way that the developers do not want and would constitute as "trolling".
I'd argue this challenge brings a negative experience to the tomes, conflicts with the spirit of the game, and feels very counter intuitive to the words "Master challenge". This amounts to the developers disrespecting the customers time and money as well. This is a negative experience on a video game that is supposed to provide entertainment. The author understands entertainment varies from person to person, and some find harder challenges to be entertainment. I strongly reiterate and emphasize that this challenge has timed rift shards that is tied to a paid product (Premium Rift Pass). I only have two survivor challenges left and I am not nearly done the rift pass. This forces me, the customer, to play the game in a way that is not fun or optimal. It also leaves a poor impression of the rift pass and tome challenge experience. It's led me to the conclusion that I should not purchase anymore rift passes in the future, and reevaluate if spending time on DBD or the BHVR discussion forums is of any "entertaining" value going forward. I'd strongly recommend the developers to reconsider these types of challenges going forward, or they risk losing paying customers.
Lastly I'd like to add, someone's anecdotal experience on "I got it on my first try" is a strawman argument at best and irrelevant to the discussion. It's comical to think that everyone else in the community is getting this on the first try.
π
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I fully agree. Challenges should be mildly challenging but stuff like "open an exit gate" or "do a rescue after EGC begins" etc. all requires the survivors cooperate and stars align.
For instance for "safe unhook after EGC starts" you need to:
- Hope you don't die before EGC. As a crappy player who's usually the first 3 hooked like less than 3 minutes into the game, this is the biggest barrier for entry.
- Hope a survivor get downed and hooked after the gate is opened. This is completely out of your hands.
- Hope the killer doesn't camp the hook because it's a smart idea to during endgame.
- Hope you can make it to the hook before another survivor rescues them.
That's a lot of scenarios that can go wrong. I'd rather have grindy challenges that can be consistently done instead of praying the stars align. Good example of another crappy one is all 4 basement sacrifices from tome 1, or that one which requires you complete 4 gens with Dark Sense. I remember that one because as soon as the second gen pops, at least one survivor would DC because the challenge was now impossible for them. Hatch and key related challenges are also bad because they encourage "I'm literally going to hide in the corner all game with left behind, distortion and urban evasion. I'm not going to touch a gen, rescue, or heal anyone, and just wait for my team to die so I can get hatch" behavior.
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Personal snipes aside, this was a lot better.
Your post there contains Point, Evidence, Explain, giving you a much better basis for an objective argument. There are points in there I agree with, some I don't, but look at this post compared to your first. This post is far stronger in explaining the problem, and communicates compelling reasons why this kind of challenge should be changed, and I would have to work MUCH harder to refute it.
A message should be as long as it needs to be to be strong and clear. Single paragraphs more often than not are unsubstantiated clickbait, the problems of which are rife in social media.
However now, I wouldn't refute your post as readily, cause though I disagree with your assessment of how rare this scenario is, I agree with your points that this is more of a luck based challenge, not based on skill, and there is a certain amount of suboptimal play required to capitalise on those scenarios.
However I would argue that this is somewhat the nature of a challenge, in every single challenge you need some element of luck and suboptimal play, and there are far more egregious challenges than this in DBD, but it is fair to say its more of a luck challenge than a skill one, and now yours and my disagreement is moving more towards some kind of resolution/middleground.
Regarding my own objectivity, I at no point claimed my anecdotal evidence was fact... I stated it was my experience or my opinion and nothing more. I don't think the luck requirement is bad, because I don't view it as a particularly rare scenarion. It is often the case in my games that when getting the gate open the killer is occupied in chase... if they aren't, they don't often let me get the gate open unchallenged. It is thus then rare for them not to be in chase when I open the gate, and it is also rare that a survivor manages to escape from the killer in the one vs. one even with the gate open without my help via body blocking and alike. You can decide for yourself how likely my experience is to be true, I don't think I am saying anything unreasonable, but you are free to challenge me on it.
This is how discussion works, and you can either engage with my points and try to refute them, or can instead ignore me/just try to undermine me like you did at first⦠1 is more productive than the other.
All that said, I hope there is no animosity. While I don't entirely agree with your point, I do at least see where you're coming from.
Cheers.
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