Why cater to players who pub stomp?
Why reward the behavior with easy trial after easy trial? I'm mainly referring to the players with astronomical win rates i.e. the multi-thousand hour quad slowdown double speed Blight, the hard tunnel at 5 gens Nurse with thousands of hours, sweat squads, etc.
Why are these players never forced to wait in queue for an actual challenge? How are players winning hundreds of games in a row? Yes, I'm talking about outliers. But it's what I run into when I'm on solo survivor. Why am I, a solo survivor, getting placed into trials against someone on a 100 game win streak? What is a random solo team going to offer that player in terms of a challenge? It is a complete waste of my time.
It defeats the entire purpose of an MMR system when players can't sweat their way beyond the average upper bracket. I don't even mind facing that type of thing when everyone is on equal footing. I used to play comp after all. But you shouldn't be able to reach a certain skill level and essentially sucker punch your opponents for a 90% win rate. If someone wants to play that way, fine. But there should be an understanding that they're going to be waiting 10+ minutes for an equally sweaty opponent every time.
It shouldn't be "well, the queue time elapsed 1 minute, I guess we're going to waste everyone's time now". We're not talking about putting everyone in high MMR into queue hell. I'm mainly referring to what I assume are extreme outliers. Like I said, I really don't mind playing against omega sweat. What I do mind is facing it when it's me, someone throwing for a Rift challenge, someone who d/c's against sweaty killers, and a 4th. It's a waste of everyone's time. Why make that match?
Comments
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Maybe you shouldn't ask to control too much the quality of the matches to BVHR…
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It's not really outliers though. The first time I played Nurse, I got 36 wins in a row, and I'm not an exceptional player. Then I posted the videos on this forum, saying it shouldn't be normal to get this kind of streaks.
One of the first comments was someone who said a 36 winstreak proves nothing and I should come back when I get at least 100 lol.
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People would play other Killers more if the game didn't make it clear that if you want a chance at finishing the trial without being held hostage at the end of the game, you have to master Nurse or Blight.
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Well said.
I still of the opinion, that win streaks in general are unhealthy for this game. Regardless of what role the person in the streak is playing, they are very likely creating awful matches for the other players involved.
Playing dbd optimally sadly results in a very unfun match for the other side. Killers have to get someone out ASAP to have the best chance to win and on survivor it's sometimes even worse.
Either it's a solo streak, which often involves playing for hatch (sometimes that often results in team-unfriedly gameplay) or a swf streak in which case perks and items will create a sweat fest for the killer. Also unfun.
But that's what happens when only kills and escapes count towards winning.
I say it again: Nurse is not that hard to perform well with. She's for the most part the killer win-button, after getting a grasp on her mechanics, it's most down to experience. A decent nurse will win a majority of public matches.
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I mean the MMR system seems very confused most of the time. Whenever I pick up a new killer that I have never played before I get matches against the sweatiest SWF with 10k hours each that absolutely stomp me and basically have to play myself down into a bracket that reflects my skill level on that killer. Meanwhile on my main I mostly get very chill and unorganised survivors. At least from my understanding it should be the other way around.
The giant issue, at least in my opinion, with what you are suggesting (longer queue times for better balanced matches) is streamers like Otz, Umrba, True, Spookyloopz etc. . Those streamers are the biggest advertisement that DBD has. Now imagine someone that has never even heard of DBD and just scrolls on Twitch finds OTZs channel and sees him play killer. He or she thinks "hey that looks cool, I know those characters from Horror movies, game looks fun, I might buy that." Then the match ends, Otz has won and is now in a queue for 15 minutes cause the MMR system tries to find someone that might actually stomp him. And suddenly the enthusiasm to buy this game including some DLCs is gone
⇒ BHV just lost a potential customer and therefor Money.
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Content creators are probably a factor. Those who literally play this game for a living, and particularly those who are good at this game and draw in a large audience, are likely to fall into that outlier bracket. They have a lot of hours and a lot of experience, and their winstreaks attract views. Having them sit in long queues wouldn't be good advertising for the game or keep viewers engaged.
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It would be a lot more viable for those competitive players to have their win streaks factored into a more adaptive to those of equal win streaks vs. losses of the opponent side. So best to maybe match than the NOW supposed "MMR".
That said, there's no real telling over which are losses by suicide on hook or actual effort by killer who succeeded in sacrificed survivors. (And said Killer Player such as Otz or SpookyLoopz who frequently challenges himselves by doing their own set rules, Hardcore Killer, etc. )
If only BHVR caved in finally and created a Comp Mode and Casual Mode seperate of themselves. But then again, By choice, who picks to play casual, plays as a Sweat or Toxic to stomp an actual Casual Fun Loving player, wanting to find players of the same non-serious attitude.
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I remember when they first introduced it and so many people were complaining because they had to actually try if they wanted to win. No free wins just because you queued as a certain killer with a certain loadout or automatic loss because you’re not playing with friends.
There would be so many content creators getting humbled right now if sbmm was working like how it was when it was first introduced. It’s hilarious to me how a lot of these streamers believe this mmr works and that they’re in high mmr, yet almost all of their survivors can’t shift tech or even know how to hold basic checkspots..I’ve gotten momo’s blight and oni at least 6 times in the past year when I’m duo queued and we get 2 randoms that couldn’t tell you what day it was even if their lives were on the line. But when I’m 4-stacked we can go on a 10+ win streak that day and still get killers so bad that I zone out. It’s so sad 😞
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To be fair, SBMM would never remain the way it was because the first tests had a lot of negative feedback. I still think the entire system should be scrapped.
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Some fine tuning of the older Emblem system?
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Ranks with the old rank reset that actually sent you back to the lower ranks would be fine, imho.
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What would your suggestion be for a replacement?
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The ranking system with the original rank reset. It isn't perfect, but it is better than SBMM.
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I could be mistaken, but I think one of these content creators was a twins main who had like a 2 hour queue?
That really sucks for them but I feel like we lost any chance at a functional matchmaking system by making the game prioritize match speed too much.
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I believe that was a Twins content creator on a 300 win streak. One of the top comp Nurses at the time had a 6 hour queue. Obviously those aren't tenable queue times, but even 5 minutes for a better match would be an improvement to me with those outliers.
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That comment about not liking win streaks: I am fully onboard with that. The playstyle is often dull, predictable and is really just a joyless way of playing, even for the Killer in some respects!
What I would love to watch, which I feel would be the ultimate Killer challenge of 12 hook win streaks. With the caviate of not being allowed to hook the same Survivor twice in a row. If someone could pull that off, I'd think that would be a true sign of a really skilled player. Or even a 4 Iridescent Emblem run. Those are results worthy of praise.
Of course, the best trials are the ones where both sides are equally skilled and the mmr is balanced, as well as having a tough endgame fight. Forget any challenges; these are the best.
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I don't have much to say other than I agree with this. The amount of matches that are dead on arrival is way too high for my liking. There is nothing enjoyable about loading in against a four slowdown Hillbilly who is hard tunneling at five gens… All as a solo queue player.
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Rank Reset filters out the .00001% of the playerbase that OP is complaining about and keeps them almost always in the red, meanwhile the rest of the top player can and will freely smurf to the bottom 50%. That was the real reason content creators were upset about the change to MMR. Deranking to get chill matches was easy, dropping MMR is hard and opaque. Nothing that the current system does is any worse than the old ranking system.
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Nothing that the current system does is any worse than the old ranking system.
I don't think that is the case, to be honest. There is a clear difference in matchmaking quality between Ranks and SBMM.
And Ranks were just better, especially with the actual rank reset.
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Better for who? Red ranks were a complete sweatfest with everyone whining about whatever broken BS the other side used. The people who deranked to avoid the sweaty reds did enjoy stomping the genuine green/yellow players, but I doubt the latter appreciated it much. And brown rank newbies had the fun of trying to learn the game while getting steamrolled by full meta P3 veterans who got to start from the bottom just because they took a break for a few months. How is what we have now worse than all that?
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For everyone, of course.
There is a reason why the feedback regarding MMR is always negative. And honestly, my experience with the Ranks was vastly different from what you've described.
All MMR does is create scenarios where you either stomp or you get stomped, and that isn't fun for anyone involved.
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Those in red ranks belonged there. There would be no severe weak link and so games could be played.
People didn't dc as much as they wanted to keep red rank.
Waiting for your equal in a competitive setting is justified. 10 mins is fair, streamers can do other things to make content besides steamrolling thru 12 year olds.
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Exactly. It's about respecting someone's time at a certain point.
And I don't think people quite grasp just how unbelievably bad the matchmaking is around the soft cap. Watch any winstreak player who is 100+ games in and see how many times the gens are even getting done. We're talking dozens of hours, hundreds of games over the course of weeks/months, and not a single competitive match. That's unfathomably bad.
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The purpose of an MMR system was defeated when they made the soft cap and made it for an Asymm. AKA when it was first introduced.
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BHVR balanced the game so bad killers can beat good survivors. I am amazed huge winstreaks are even allowed in a PvP game.
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It wouldn't be allowed if any other company developed this game. You'd maybe manage a 10 winstreak if you were insanely good. You'd be happy about it too. This is the only game i've ever played where winning 30 games in a row is normalized and even considered unimpressive. Never mind almost the entire killer roster having verified winstreaks in the hundreds at a minimum.
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This is just false.
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Only game for me too. I love it when they say "must be at low MMR". Um, I won 100 matches in a row. A Blight streamer over there won a thousand. MMR is basically non-functional when a game is this unbalanced.
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I remember when we had those "certain" days when they changed SSBM and we could not know what happened behind the curtains. Me and a friend playing killer like normal and tought by ourselves…. they did not change anything these days… A few hours later a video from a streamer went online "my god this not playable, This is not fun 24/7 sweatfest" that was the moment i knew MMR only exist for normal players and not streamers with big audiences.
Maybe they know it, maybe they dont… At some point i dont care anymore. But if you think rational lets say for instance that otz need to sweat 24/7 and loses 9/10 matches his audience will go down and nobody will want to play killer anymore. Thats bad for sales on behaviour side…1 -
This is reality.
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Nah. Players only pub stomp because the average skill of the community is not that good. You can call it "average" but average in dbd is still not that good but even then average can still win games.
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Not at all! Whenever I see people up playing Nurse (or having the audacity to say she’s hardest killer in the game?), I just assume they’re controller players or haven’t tried her at all. Hold M2, let go towards survivor, M1.
It should not be possible to get 1000 wins in a row, it’s absurd that people can go over this and work towards 1500 or 2000 wins because of how awful matchmaking is.2 -
If an everage killer plays against average survivor team the outcome should (!) be about small differences and would come in all sorts of outcomes. But actually it isnt. It all comes down on how "easy" the killer wants to go on the survivor. I can still go to stomp better survs than me if I go all out on cheap gameplay thats atm available, especially if i use one of the S-Tier killers. If youre an average survivor team, you will only win if the killer plays chill or does several (!) mistakes that leads into game-changing situations. Thats the actual state of the game (for several years now). And every major update turned this into more a mess than before. Denying this is completely out of reality.
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