A Dive into Gen Regression
I got recommended this video on YouTube and although none of the information in that video was new to me, it does put things into perspective when you do such a side by side comparison between instant regression and regression over time.
A lot of these numbers are arbitrarily high because in a normal match your goal won't be trying to regress a gen fully but only to buy yourself time. So you don't really care that it takes 342 seconds to regress 90 charges or 327 seconds with CoB. You'll only care that CoB buys you 3.75 seconds if you can keep it active for the entire duration, which is basically nothing. This is the actual value of CoB as is. It's a much better info perk than it is a gen regression perk. You could take away the extra regression and it would barely count as a nerf.
Overcharge was butchered as well and I'd argue that against decent survivors, Overcharge is actually worse than nothing. You mostly won't get to keep a gen regressing for 20, which is what Overcharge needs in order for it to be as effective as no perk at all since the "difficult" skill check does pretty much nothing.
That is also the reason why I think Ruin isn't worth a perk slot. Yes, technically it does save you the time to kick a gen but on the other hand it takes 4.5c / 0.25c/s = 18 seconds to make up for that lost instant regression. Even if we factor in the time it takes to catch up to a survivor after you kick a gen, that doesn't make it much better. You won't need 18 seconds to close that gap, especially not on stronger killers. The most value you'll get out of it is, if a survivor goes looking for the totem and destroys it. But then you lose that perk for the remainder of the match.
A way for all 3 of these perks to become stronger is to increase the base regression speed. This would overall be a net buff to killers that is arguably not necessary, so it would need to come with nerfs to the better regression perks like Pain Res, Surge etc. This might sound good on paper but it does bear another issue.
Solo queue survivors cannot coordinate for someone else to take over their gen and stop it from regressing while SWFs can and do. That is less than ideal. For that reason and also the fact that different killers are better at keeping survivors away from gens than others I think, we should move away from regression over time and focus on instant regression.
What are your thoughts on this matter? Do you think base regression should be changed?
Comments
-
Base regression shouldn't change.
The perks themselves? Absolutely.
Call of Brine, Overcharge and Hex: Ruin should all have the 200% regression speed. Ofc, to not repeat the Overbrine meta, both of them should have a condition that the regression speed cannot exceed 200%.
7 -
I don't think base regression speed should change. Increasing base regression is a nerf to solo queue, as they often won't know if important gens are regressing, while SWF can easily call it out and mitigate losses to passive regression.
The video is throwing out 342 seconds needed to regress a generator from 99.9% to 0 as if this is some sort of mind-blowing stat, when in reality if survivors were to hypothetically lose all of the progress from a generator that was 99.9% complete, they would very likely lose that match. Passive regression is not meant to be able to easily regress gens back to nothing. If it could, the game would quickly become unwinnable for survivors after the first survivor is sacrificed, as it would be too hard to make meaningful progress on generators. This would even further incentivize tunneling, which is still a common and anti-fun killer strategy.
Regression perks do need changes, though. I agree with the video that CoB is too weak and Pain Res is too strong. If anything core regression-related mechanic is going to be changed, I'd look at the 8 kick limit per generator. It's not intuitive, impossible to tell visually to my knowledge, and is more of a band-aid on an unhealthy meta that itself was nerfed into oblivion. I'd like to see that limit removed again.
9 -
Taking into account the fact that the gen can only be damaged 8 times, I don’t see any reason why regression cannot take buff
6 -
Don't buy into the fantasy that power creep will solve the issue. Buffing gen regression is kicking the can down the road yet again until inevitably you are met with the same question. The cyclical: buff it → survivor experience suffers → nerf it → killers are not 4k-ing every match → killers complain → buff it → on and on and on.
A killer should not be able to substantially override the survivor's effort into completing their objective simply by spending 2 seconds kicking a generator and nothing else. This is why you are selling ruin short. Ruin is a fantastic perk on the killers that can apply pressure to multiple parts of the map quickly. Just because ruin isn't 200% like it used to be back when it was busted doesn't mean it's something to scoff at now. A good plague, blight, billy, dredge, etc. can use ruin to it's fullest potential and dominate games with it. Also, Pop and Pain Res are wonderful perks in theory, but the execution is what makes the survivor experience horrible. On killers that have no chase power, they are great rewards, but for killers that can snowball very easily, they are used to further secure their chances of winning in the pregame lobby before the match even starts.
This is why I've said, and will continue to say, that this game needs a fundamental overhaul in base game mechanics. The only way you will get away from this horrible power creep between gen regression, gen times, etc. is by giving survivors and killers more ways to win and lose. That is the only long term solution that actually addresses the core problem at hand.
But, if we must stay limited with only gens and the subsequent gen regression topic: if gen regression does get buffed and chase times stay as short as they are on average, enjoy seeing commodious toolboxes with brand new parts every game, because survivors will have to adapt if that comes to pass.
4 -
While suffering from regression meta for years, people still want it to be buffed is really amazing. No words for this.
4 -
Even if they were in the version of overbrine meta, I don't think it would be an issue.
It's not really possible with 3-gen feature.1 -
I normally like Ardetha vids, but the logic in this one was awful.
It takes 16 seconds to heal a survivor, it only takes 2.7 seconds for a killer to wipe their blade, therefore survivor healing speeds should be much faster.
Same logic as what he employed in this video.
10 -
Base regression absolutely should change, then they can nerf or completely rework tons of the gen defense perks.
They should do to the perks what they do to killer addons. Buff the basekit, and nerf the perks.
0 -
they completelly gutted the big 3 of the gen kick meta . Eruption , overcharge and cob . I always expected a walk back once they implemented the 8 kick limit however that has not happened yet . COB by itself was never an issue so they could fully revert it but make it non stackable. Otherwise make it 150% but it lasts for 90 s or until interrupted . Overcharted is fine but it should start at 100% not lower then base because thats ridiculous. Eruption is ok but at least it needs to count for one regression event instead of 2 everytime you kick and it procs ( not sure if they could ever code for this tough) . On another not , a survivor missing a skillcheck is more regression then you kicking a gen twice at base 5% . Everything base with gen kicking is awfull so leaving those perks as is but buffing basekit would also be the best choice .
0 -
Because people refuse to see why it's needed. They mostly think it's meta just to annoy the survivors, with killers running it purely for toxicity's sake. That's why the conversation doesn't get anywhere.
4 -
Regression needs a buff in general. Regressing at 25% of the repair speed is too slow. For a gen to regress 30 sec of repair progress, it needs to regress for 120 seconds. No one uses Oppression because regression is so weak. Even when you get to regress multiple gens at once from a single gen kick, it still isn't worth it. That just shows how bad regression is.
0 -
I specifically mentioned that if the base regression was nerfed it would need to come with compensatory nerfs on instant regression. So I'm not sure where that would lead to powercreep.
And can we stop with this "Killers cry as soon as they don't 4k every match!" nonsensense? Sure, you have a bunch of entitled players on both sides but this is not about that. It's about a base value that is simply too low to be of much use and perks that are bad because they affect this number. I even said, that I'm not really sold on the idea to buff base regression, so posting this as a response to me is misplaced at best.
Ruin isn't what does the work on these killers you mentioned. There are a bunch of other perks they could use that would provide them with more value and it's not all meta perks. The effect of Ruin is good in theory but falls short in practice. Passive regression sounds great but when you think about how much time Ruin actually provides, you quickly come to the conclusion that you could use douzens of other perks and get more value. Especially without the instant 5% regression on kicks and the risk of it being eliminated right at the start of the match, which is not very rare.
Side objectives would in theory be the best way to get around the whole slowdown problem but on one hand we know that the devs are not very fond of that idea and on the other hand this would always come as nerf to solo queue players too. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "more ways to win and lose". That will never happen simply because the game is designed around the idea of killers trying to kill survivors and survivors trying to escape. There is no room for an alternative win condition here, is there?
I'm not quite sure what this has to do with chase times either. Especially when we consider that it's instant regression perks like Pop, Pain Res, Surge and Eruption that benefit from short chases because you can use them more frequently, while CoB, Overcharge and Ruin only work over time and have no clause that they activate / deactivate with chases / hooks / downs. Obviously these perks will be better, if the killer can keep their chases short because then the killer already puts so much pressure on the survivors, that they have trouble dealing with that alone and cannot really take care of the killer's perks but that is true for about 95% of all perks in this game.
Regression will always be meta. The question is what regression perks will be used. Right now it's a small selection that also synergise pretty well, which might get a bit better, if we mix it up a little.
I also didn't say anything about a net buff. Please read the third to last section of my post again.
I agree that some of these numbers are just completely arbitrary but it is true that the base regression speed is very low. The direct comparison between instant regression and base regression is what made this video interesting enough for me to start a discussion around it.
2 -
Oppression is in the upper third of killer perks by usage despite being locked behind a DLC character and killers who use it have an above average kill rate. This isn't really relevant to the question at hand, though.
The most important thing to keep in mind is that kill rates are above 50% at all skill levels, even against four-man SWF, with averages around 58%. The only reasons to increase base regression would be if survivors were overperforming or if low regression was not fun. Survivors are not overperforming and prolonging matches via extra regression is the opposite of what most would consider fun in the same way that the three-gen meta was. Therefore there is no reason to touch base regression speed. Besides, when you consider that increasing regression speed would hurt solo players much more than SWF, I don't think that's a good lever to pull regardless.
Perks like Pain Res could easily be nerfed and perks like Call of Brine could be buffed without global gameplay changes.
1 -
Oppression is in the niche category. Most of the perks at that pick rate are niche perks that only beneficial to some killers. The locked behind DLC argument isn't relevant when almost all perks are locked behind DLC characters. Kill rate isn't a good indicator of perk strength because we don't know how much kill rate it adds to the killer. Basically, the kill rate could just be high because the killers that use it already have high kill rate.
This isn't really relevant to the question at hand, though.
It's relevant because it shows how weak regression is.
The most important thing to keep in mind is that kill rates are above 50% at all skill levels, even against four-man SWF, with averages around 58%. The only reasons to increase base regression would be if survivors were overperforming or if low regression was not fun. Survivors are not overperforming and prolonging matches via extra regression is the opposite of what most would consider fun in the same way that the three-gen meta was. Therefore there is no reason to touch base regression speed. Besides, when you consider that increasing regression speed would hurt solo players much more than SWF, I don't think that's a good lever to pull regardless.
The stats actually support the argument regression should be buffed. The devs recently mentioned that their target kill rate is 62.5%. If it's at 58.5% (as shown from the Jan 2024 stats), killers are underperforming.
2 -
Regression itself is ok, but the instant regression perks like Overcharge & Pop Goes the Weasel shouldn’t have been nerfed. Also, kicking gens should not have a kick limit,
2 -
I agree that some of these numbers are just completely arbitrary but it is true that the base regression speed is very low. The direct comparison between instant regression and base regression is what made this video interesting enough for me to start a discussion around it.Everything is arbitrary. The issue with the video is that you can't approach game mechanics on any sort of comparison metric in something like DbD, everything has to be evaluated with the game as a whole.
Killers are not meant to be able to stop gen progress entirely, just like survivors can't hold off the killer indefinitely by healing. Both sides can slow down the other side's objective, but only slow it down
So how much gen regression is too much and what would be too little?
Well, what's the objective. In a game that incorporates strategy elements you don't want the choices to be things that should always be done or never be done. You want the player to be faced with a decision, is it worth my time/resources to do the following?
Gens seem to be in a pretty good place with that right now. They also incorporate an interesting decision for survivors on whether stopping the regressing gen or doing some other action (healing, hook rescue) is the right call.
2 -
Transferring power from instant regression to regression over time base kit will not do what you're hoping. Remember when leatherface, in hopes to get leatherfaces to use more addons, had beast marks and award winning chili given to him base kit but at a lower percentage of the addon's power? Guess what happened? Leatherfaces still only run beast marks and award winning chili. Why? Because the net value of the power INCREASED. Having base regression increased and instant regression slightly nerfed will still net an increase in regression. Killers will continue to run regression. Remember when everyone thought Pop was no longer meta when it got nerfed from 30% current to 20% current? It's still used in almost 75% of matches that I play. So yes, it is considered power creep when the overall power of base mechanics + perks & addons increases after said changes are applied.
Most killers do complain if they don't 4k every match. If they didn't, slugging for the 4k wouldn't happen as frequently as it does. Running grim embrace wouldn't happen as frequently as it does. Running quad slowdown wouldn't happen as frequently as it does. If you need 4 slowdown to achieve a 2k or a 3k, you're either running a D tier killer or need to work on your chase game.
There is absolutely room for more win conditions. This is the Entity's realm. The Entity is here to bathe in the suffering and fear of the survivors and the never-ending rage of the killers. This is a game to it. The only reason it says "Entity Displeased" and the end of the match screen is because nothing happened in the game. It WANTS to have an entertaining match to watch. It WANTS to see a hard fought battle that could go either way. What would be the point of watching a sports match if you knew the outcome of every game? I've said before, each killer should have a unique power up mechanic the killer interacts with and a unique power down mechanic the survivors interact with. The killer powering up to full would make it almost impossible for them to lose, and powering them down fully will render them weak for a time. Each map should have interactable elements that could help either side. I'm not going to turn this post into a brainstorm, but there are absolutely ways to incorporate this according to the game's own lore. Ultimately, it's up to the devs to prioritize it and put in the development time to do so. Also, I'm not sure how this would nerf solo Q players.
Chase times relate to instant regression. If chase times are longer, it takes longer to earn the instant regression from pop, pain res, slowdown from grim embrace, etc. If chase times are shorter, those instant regressions are earned much quicker, essentially nullifying fully a survivor's effort on generators. For example, if one survivor is hooked on a pain res hook, the gen with the most progress is regressed 20%. If another survivor goes down and hooked within 18 seconds of that first hook, plus the 3 second penalty for a regression event while the survivor is on the generator, making it actually 21 seconds, there will at most 0 net progress, at worse, another 20% taken off that gen.
2 -
Pick rate of a single regression-related perk says absolutely nothing about the strength of base kit regression. And again, it is in the top third by pick rate, and those who choose it have above average kill rates. ~3% is an above average pick rate when there are 125ish perks and 4 perk slots.
The devs have said they are targeting around 60%. That is likely because the game is already there, has been there for years, and has been doing fine. They used to claim to target 50% even as kill rates were well in excess of that.
60% fundamentally tilts the playing field towards killers, and it is not particularly healthy for any PvP game to have one side win substantially more often than the other side. Queue time math may factor in, but if so, they should be making killer more fun to play in other ways than making the game killer sided. For example, by balancing the game such that the killer is all but forced to split hooks, while still performing well enough to average a 2k. If the average match were a three-hook tunnel and then camping someone during the EGC, that would be horrendous even if average kill rates were 50%. But if most of those 2ks were the 8-10 hook variety, I think both sides would feel pretty good about that result and matches would be consistently more fun for both sides. Targeting 62.5% in a game where tunneling is still easy enough to be meta is not healthy.
But again, all of this is irrelevant to base regression. If the devs want to buff killer, they should do so in such a way that solo queue players do not suffer way more than SWF players. Therefore they should not increase base regression speed.
1 -
Chess merchant about to creep up again.
She was literally the breaking point on the whole 3-gen debacle and the reason we needed the regression limit so people couldn't pitch a tent in between the closest 3 gens and extending the game for 2 hours.
Besides, I don't know how you guys have an issue with the kick limit. I keep getting the warning spikes but I never seem to hit the limit in any of my matches as killer? I always think "Oh, shoot. This is my last regression, apparently" but I always seem to be able to regress it again. I suppose I haven't gone past 6 or 7 kicks in my worst cases.
1 -
Bad takes with naive, out of context numbers shuffling to fill a 10min video for the algorithm. His previous video on the Overbrine + Eruption meta has equally bad conclusions. That guy can't be serious with these videos. Then again he nodded at the bot after a DC.
3 -
There is no need to run 4 Slowdowns. Thats the reality.
4 -
There are many channels out there where killer mains masquerade as unbiased arbiters of balance for the game. It cracks me up every time, but it's equally as scary that people take videos like this at face value, don't apply any critical thinking on their end, and just simply believe all the claims made in them just because a content creator said them.
1 -
Pick rate of a single regression-related perk says absolutely nothing about the strength of base kit regression.
Yes it does. It shows that even when you can kick multiple gens at once, it still isn't good. It's the only perk that relies completely on base kit kicking and regression.
Stats also show that killers only kick gens 3.5 times per match. The low number of kicks indicates that kicking gens is low priority.
And again, it is in the top third by pick rate, and those who choose it have above average kill rates. ~3% is an above average pick rate when there are 125ish perks and 4 perk slots.
It has a 2.75% pick rate, which means it is used once every 36 matches. It's a rarely used perk. You're getting too caught up in the rankings and not looking at the actual pick rate.
The devs have said they are targeting around 60%. That is likely because the game is already there, has been there for years, and has been doing fine. They used to claim to target 50% even as kill rates were well in excess of that.
Stop speculating about their target kill rate. I linked a video where a dev specifically said they are targeting a 62.5% kill rate. It's 62.5% not 60%.
60% fundamentally tilts the playing field towards killers, and it is not particularly healthy for any PvP game to have one side win substantially more often than the other side. Queue time math may factor in, but if so, they should be making killer more fun to play in other ways than making the game killer sided. For example, by balancing the game such that the killer is all but forced to split hooks, while still performing well enough to average a 2k. If the average match were a three-hook tunnel and then camping someone during the EGC, that would be horrendous even if average kill rates were 50%. But if most of those 2ks were the 8-10 hook variety, I think both sides would feel pretty good about that result and matches would be consistently more fun for both sides. Targeting 62.5% in a game where tunneling is still easy enough to be meta is not healthy.
Argue with the devs not me. Dev's target is 62.5%, and by this target, killers are underperforming.
1 -
Judging by the titles of his other videos this feels like easy ragebait to get his monthly video out. It's the only clickbait title in at least 2.5 years.
1 -
I agree that some of these numbers are little more than "nice to know, I guess" but he didn't take anything out of context. He clearly stated what each number meant.
1 -
Your insistence on this logically incoherent argument is frustrating. Kill rates when using Oppression are 16th highest of all killer perks. Pick rate being 41st indicates it may be underrated, but there are many other factors that go into perk choice than its effectiveness in a vacuum: fun, synergies with other perks in your build and your killer's kit, whether or not you have the perk unlocked in the first place (and many probably don't because no one plays Twins), etc.
A low number of kicks does not necessarily mean that kicking gens is a low priority. It could just as easily be a factor of meta perks applying regression to key gens for them or encouraging them to immediately start a new chase (Pain Res, Ruin, Surge, BBQ, Friends to the End, etc. are popular picks), killers avoiding kicks on less important gens to save Pops for key gens, for regression to be important but only in certain situations (e.g. once you get into 3v1, only on gens with a lot of progress), for regression to be useful but not useful enough to pass up immediately starting a new chase, etc. It is one data point.
They have said 60% in the past and there is essentially no difference between 62.5% and 60%. Nowhere did I dispute your number. I just said this is not healthy for a PvP game. The target win rate for any PvP game should be even on both sides. If they are worried about killer queue times, there are plenty of other ways to address that besides making it easier to win. If they are worried about the horror atmosphere… yeah no, that ship has long since sailed lol
You are just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. None of this has anything to do with whether not base kit regression should be increased.
0 -
there is already rule that base regression cannot exceed over 400%. remember, it was a bug in ptb where if you ran overcharge and call of brine which was 400% and 100%, you didn't get 500% regression.
base regression is the problem. the perks in theory should provide an advantage and be relatively good but the base values are so bad that the perk is terrible as well. it is terrible because for many years, gen kick didn't have limit so they always kept base regression low to prevent that 50+ min skull merchant type gameplay from happening but now there is no reason for them to keep mechanic underpowered as that gameplay is now balanced by 8 regression events.
1 -
Your insistence on this logically incoherent argument is frustrating. Kill rates when using Oppression are 16th highest of all killer perks. Pick rate being 41st indicates it
maybe underrated, but there are many other factors that go into perk choice than its effectiveness in a vacuum: fun, synergies with other perks in your build and your killer's kit, whether or not you have the perk unlocked in the first place (and many probably don't because no one plays Twins), etc.If we're only looking at kill rate, why don't we buff Nurse who has had the lowest kill rate for the past 5 years? Why does Nurse keep getting nerfed despite her low kill rates? Also, there's no way those kill rates accurately depict perk strength. Looking at the top kill rate perks, we have Machine Learning at first, Hex Pentimento 2nd, Dark Devotion 6th, and Overcharge 9th. Are we really calling these the best perks in the game?
A low number of kicks does not necessarily mean that kicking gens is a low priority. It could just as easily be a factor of meta perks applying regression to key gens for them or encouraging them to immediately start a new chase (Pain Res, Ruin, Surge, BBQ, Friends to the End, etc. are popular picks), killers avoiding kicks on less important gens to save Pops for key gens, for regression to be important but only in certain situations (e.g. once you get into 3v1, only on gens with a lot of progress), for regression to be useful but not useful enough to pass up immediately starting a new chase, etc. It is one data point.
Even if you ran none of those perks, you would still barely kick gens as killer. Kicking gens is something you do when you have spare time. It's the lowest priority task. Getting a chase and applying map pressure is almost always higher priority. If you found a survivor working on a gen, you would almost always chase the survivor instead of kicking the gen.
1 -
He looked solely at the numbers. Out of context are the parts when he compares regression times and ignores CoB has an info component, ignores increasing base regression would also be a buff to Pain Res as well as the impact on the average lobby and the more extreme situations, like hooking a survivor inside a 3gen or just next to a progressed gen if it was a stronger killer, the buff would have even without perks.
I don't need to spell out to you the conclusions these things offer considering the current state of soloQ. Then there is also the fact that Pain Res and Pop basically are chase perks in the sense they reward chases won so it is doubtful killers would switch to more actual chase perks if base regression got buffed like he suggests they would be able to.
0 -
The info component of CoB is by far not enough to warrant a perk slot though. It's a neat extra but not much more. Or it used to be like that. Now it has 2 effects that are just not very good. You can use a douzen info perks that would provide way more value than CoB. It has no real identity anymore.
The regression is too little to make it a good slowdown perk and the info is too little to make it a good info perk. Even combined the effects are not very useful. You have about 90-100 killer perks that are better. I'd go as far to say that even Fire Up is better because there is a niche that can make it work. But CoB stays bad no matter your build.
He also said that this would be "the perfect opportunity to nerf several of the other overpicked regression perks". So, he did put it into context one way or another. And even if he didn't, I did. This discussion is not about how well made the video is.
You don't hold a 3 gen with base regression and since there is a regression event limit that won't be an issue anyway. Besides, with a nerf to Pop or Pain Res, that would easily be compensated.
I agree that that faster regression could pose an issue for solo queue although for different reasons. Instant regression hits everyone the same but regression over time can be stopped when someone takes over a gen, which in solo queue happens a lot less than in a SWF. So I don't think the regression speed should be changed but I wanted to see what others think.
Pop and Pain Res working as a reward for chases isn't really a big deal anymore. It's good for these 2 because it's an activation requirement that makes sense for such a strong effect but it's not like they encourage a killer to chase. That's something the killer has to do anyway since infinite stalling is no longer possible.
2 -
CoB still has the info though just like OG Pain Res had and that had to go. I acknowledge CoB is too weak but Pain Res taught us strong regression perks shouldn't come with strong info on top. Maybe CoB duration should be increased to lean more into the info aspect instead with only a mild buff to regression. Maybe the eruption nerf and maybe capping maximum regression speed would have been good enough. If you mean that not dominating a meta means not having an identity then, yes, CoB doesn't have that anymore and I appreciate it. Seriously though, it got gutted, not reworked™. Functionally, it is very much the same.
How would one nerf Pain Res again while significantly buffing, say, CoB without them swapping places? That question is mostly rethorical. I'm just pointing out a likely scenario in my opinion.
I didn't mean to imply to actually hold the 3gen until server timeout. All I meant to say was to buy enough time which becomes easier with higher base regression and camping. I agree with Valuetown on this. Meddling with base regression is not just a balance but a core game philosophy issue.
0 -
That's the difference though. Pain Res does one thing very well. CoB does 2 things but pretty bad.
The info aspect of CoB will always remain bad. It could have an infinite duration and still be a neat addition but nothing more. They could simply remove that and focus on the regression aspect. Or they rework this perk into an info perk and give a different secondary effect. It could work kind of like Tinkerer maybe where you get the information and a few seconds of undectable. Give that survivor a little warning and it should be fine.
What I meant with CoB not having an identity anymore was that you would neither use it for the information nor for the slowdown. That has nothing to do with it being not being meta anymore. The only meta perks I still use are BBQ, Lethal Pursuer and STBFL and I use some pretty obscure builds most of the time but CoB simply has no way to make it shine in either aspect. The information has no synergy and you wouldn't use it for that since you have so many better and more importantly reliable options and the regression aspect is so weak that the synergy might as well not exist. It's neither a real regression perk nor a real info perk.
One change I would make to Pain Res is to turn a used Scourge Hook into a normal hook and turn one normal hook into a Scourge Hook each time it activates. That would make it weaker for camping, which is a good thing in my book. Of course this wouldn't be enough to compensate a big buff to CoB but if we limit the max regression speed to 200% (0.5 c/s), that should be fine. You could even add another effect that prevents the killer from kicking a gen that was affected by Pain Res for X seconds, which would also limit its synergy with Pop.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the 3gen part. That would go a little too far into a different direction, if we were to discuss that here. My current stance on the matter is that since you can no longer stall indefinitely, you are forced to chase survivors, which allows another survivor to take over on that gen and stop the regression.
1 -
this is like saying killers are suffering from the survivor not going down meta.
1 -
CoB info is basically a selective Gearhead and last I checked that was a decent perk. Rest seems reasonable. Weird use of not having an identity anymore though when merely a number got slashed. I would even argue it never had much of an identity to begin with because the reason it was nerfed was too many perks doing the same things.
0 -
What people don't understand, and likely never will, about gen kick perks is how much you're giving up by using them. If you decide to kick a gen instead of chasing the survivor who was working on it, you're literally giving them a head start, but if you don't go after them then they'll just come back and touch the gen again. It's a lose-lose, but at least with Pop you get decent regression for your momentum halt.
1 -
Absolutely. People just assume the survivors will just go down every 30-45 seconds. What about the survivors, even if it's just 1 on each team, that take like 2 minutes+ to down? Or straight-up won't go down as long as a pallet is left standing on the map? You can leave them for the easier survivors, but how much damage has already been done by that point, and with what guarantee that the other survivors you try won't be just as good?
0
