Some perk changes for both sides
Hello folks,
Do you think I made the list too long? It took me a long time to write this, I hope it was worth it. I hope you enjoy my ideas. Please let me know what is good and bad and give some constructive feedback!
Please devs take some of these ideas 💡into the game.
Survivor
Technician
- Makes a generator and your repairing noises silent, when you are working on it (changed)
- Suppresses the explosion of accompanying loud noise notification when missing a skill check
- Failing a Skill Check instantly regresses the Generator by 5/4/3 % of its maximum possible Progression in addition to the default Progression penalty.
Would be a lot more fun to use that way and make it a stealth perk for gens.
Invocation weaving spider
- After 60s of completing the invocation you loose one hook state (was permanently broken) and all gens get permanently reduced by ten charges
This would make me consider using this perk. Broken for the rest of the trail gives you such a huge disadvantage while not really gaining much.
Parental Guidance
- After stunning the killer by any means Parental guidance suppresses your scratch marks, pools of blood, grunts of pain and footstep sounds (new) for 12s (was 7s)
Either the killer sees where you are running to which makes the effect not very useful or when it comes into play it runs out to fast. It’s too situational most times.
Bite the bullet
- When somebody is getting healed or heals another Survivor within 8 meters of your location (did only work when you healed someone for both of you or when you healed yourself), you and they benefit from the following effects: Suppresses all noises and auras (new) related to Healing and Grunts of Pain.
- Failed Healing Skill Checks do not trigger a loud noise notification. Reduces the Penalty to 3/2/1 %of the total Progression.
- Allows 3 survivors to heal at the same time (new)
This perks only use was to bypass the iron will nerf. Now that iron will is reverted there is no real point in playing it and it definitely needs some additional effects. Why doesn’t it work when others heal me?
Adrenaline
- This perk activates after the exit gates are powered.
- Instantly heal one health state (was if you are injured or in the dying state) and sprint at 150% of your normal running speed for 3 seconds
- Adrenaline ignore exhausted status effect. Causes exhausted status effect for 40s.
A one time use endgame perk should never deactivate by such a stupid thing like getting hooked at the wrong time.
Self care
- Unlocks the self care ability, allowing you to self heal without a medkit at 45% (was 35%) of the normal healing speed.
Overnerfed. Everytime someone uses it now it is like a fifth perk for the killer and hurts the survivor team so much more than it helps.
Strength in the shadows
- When you are in the basement strength in shadows activates: Unlocke the strength in shadows ability, allowing you to heal at 90% (was 70%) of the normal Healing speed.
- Upon finishing a heal in the basement the aura of the Killer is revealed to you for 6/8/10seconds.
To make up for the self care buff.
Boons: have a 32m (was 24m) range and are a lot quieter - To help with some of the problems boons have
Boon: Circle of healing
- Press and hold the Active Ability button on a Dull or Hex Totem to bless it and create a boon totem. Soft chimes ring out in a radius of 32 metres. All Survivors benefit from the following effects when inside the Boon Totem's radius:
- Increases all healing speeds by 100%
- Allows you to self heal - reduces the self healing speed by 155% (new: would be 45% self healing speed, same as self care. Before anyone says something; old circle of healing was basically 100% self healing speed or higher depending on which patch, so this would be much much much much lower)
- To make this fair killers would be able to distroy boon totems completely by kicking them (basically shattered hope basekit)
This perk is pretty much useless in soloq. It got completly overnerfed and lost its identity. It does not even make the time up you spend blessing it.
Boon: Dark theory
- Press and hold the Active Ability button on a Dull or Hex Totem to bless it and create a boon totem. Soft chimes ring out in a radius of 32 metres. All Survivors benefit from the following effects when inside the Boon Totem's radius:
- Grants survivors a 2% haste status effect and 5% vaulting speed increase (new), killer loose the blood lust ability (new) and
grants the killer 1-2% hindered or recover (new,scrapped)form exhaustion while running (new; from @Xernoton). These effects linger for 4s after leaving the boon’s range.
This way it would be the looping boon perk. 2% haste isn’t enough for setting up a boon.
Boon: exponential
- Press and hold the Active Ability button on a Dull or Hex Totem to bless it and create a boon totem. Soft chimes ring out in a radius of 32 metres. All Survivors benefit from the following effects when inside the Boon Totem's radius:
- 100% bonus to the Recovery speed.
- Unlocks the Self-Recovery ability, allowing you to fully recover
- Shows the aura of all hooks in the boon’s range (new)
- Downed survivors can crawl 50% faster (new)
To make it less situational.
Boon: Shadow Step
- Press and hold the Active Ability button on a Dull or Hex Totem to bless it and create a boon totem. Soft chimes ring out in a radius of 32 metres. All Survivors benefit from the following effects when inside the Boon Totem's radius:
- Scratch marks are suppressed, auras are hidden from the killer and footstep sounds are suppressed (new). These effects linger for 4s after leaving the boon totem’s range.
Calm spirit
- Prevents crows from being alerted by your proximity and flying off, unless they are being step on
- Suppresses the urge to scream from any cause at all times and cleansing or blessing totems
- Suppresses all noises related to opening chests or cleansing or blessing totems
Reducesthe Interaction speeds withChestsandTotemsby40/35/30%(removed)
Having such a big drawback on an already not good perk makes it just detrimental to use.
Empathic connection
- (Was whenever another survivor is injured,) Survivors see your aura within a range of 96m.
- You heal (was onyl other survivors) 30% faster
Ace in the whole (please make it basekit and give it a new effect, it would improve the game by a lot!)
Any means necessary
- You see the aura of dropped and remains of broken palates.
- Press the active ability button 1 for 3s (was 4s) while standing next to a dropped pallet to reset it to its upright position
- Press the active ability button 1 at the remains of a broken pallet for 3s to create a party pallet with the help of the entity. This ability unlocks itself after getting chased by the killer for 40s (new)
I know many will say too strong, but since party pallets aren’t strong in the anniversary event, I think this would be fine.
Appraisal
Start the trial with 3tokens.(removed) When a chest has already been opened,consume a token torummage through it for an item. Rummaging can be performed 1/2/3 (was 1) times per chest.
Autodidact
- You start the trial with a -15% progress penalty for skill checks to heal other survivors. For very successful skill check while healing another survivor, you receive a token up to a maximum of 5. Each one grants a 15% progress bonus. Great skill checks cannot be performed while using autodidact. Autodidact does not affect medkits.
- Increase the chances of getting skill checks while healing by 10% (new)
To reduce the gamble of this perk by a bit.
Breakout
- When within 6m (was 5m) of a carried Survivor, you gain the haste status effect, moving at 7% increased speed. The carried survivor’s wiggle speed is increased by 25%.
The small range makes it too tricky to use.
Botany knowledge
- Increases healing speed by 50%
Healing item efficiency is reduced by 20%(removed)
Ever since medkits got super hard nerfed into having only one version, this should have been removed.
Camaraderie
- While you are on the hook (was only in the struggle phase), camaraderie activates.
If another survivor is within 16m of youWhile Camaraderie is activated, the hook timer is paused for 34seconds - Increases the anti camp radius by 8m (new)
Far too conditional for its weak effect.
Deception
- Interacting with a locker while sprinting will trigger a loud noice notification at your location and cause you to leave no scratch marks for 4s (was 3s). Deception goes on cooldown for 20s.
- You can no longer enter lockers while sprinting, when this perk is active.
The duration is often too short.
Dance with me
- When performing a fast vault or leaving a locker in a sprint, you leave no scratch marks for 4-5s (was 4s). Dance with me has a cooldown of 20s
The duration is too short to do something in most cases.
Finesse
This perk deactivates when you are healthy(now works while injured)- Your fast vaults are 20% faster
- This perk goes on cooldown for 30s after preforming a fast vault.
Distortion
- You start the trial with 1 (was 3) token. When your aura would be shown to the killer, the perk activates and a token is consumed. For the next 7s (was 10s), while it so active your aura and scratch marks will not be shown to the killer.
- This perk does not activate in the dying state
- Regain one token for 35s (was 30s) spent inside the killer’s terror radius up to a maximum of 3 tokens
The coming nerf will kill this perk and I try to nerf it without killing it. My nerfs would make it reachatge slower. Make it consume 2 tokens when using long aura perks or when in combination with leather. Lastly you start with less tokens at the beginning.
Head on
- After standing in a locker for 3seconds, Head activates: While head on is activated, it shows survivors the aura of the locker you are in in a radius of 24m (new) and performe a rush action to leave the locker to use head on. If the killer is within Head ob’s effective range, the killer gets stunned for 3s, which causes the exhaustion effect for 40s. Head on can not be used while exhausted.
Allowing your teammates to see in which locker you are in would make this perk a lot more useful for soloq.
Light footed
When you are healthy this perk activates(now always active)- When you are running footsteps are silent
- This perk goes on cooldown for 20s after preforming a rushed action.
Too conditional, I would rather make it deactivate through being exhausted
Made for this
- Whenever you are not exhausted (was when injured), Made for This activates and you benefit from the following effects: Gain a 2% (was3%) Haste Status Effect (was only while running). Gain the EnduranceStatus Effect for 6/8/10seconds after completing a Healing action on another Survivor. Made For This does not cause exhaustion
Overnerfed, we also have a lot more exhaustion counters now
Lucky break
- Lucky break activates any time you are running and injured (was only injured). While Lucky break is active, you won’t leave trails of blood or scratch marks for a total of 60s
While healthy,(removed) Healing 2% of healing progress increasse Lucky break’s duration by 0,5s (was 1s for 1s).
Cool perk which you can’t stopp running out of time when you aren’t even near the killer and refilling it takes too long.
No mither
- You are affected by the broken status effect for the rest of the duration of the trial. Your thick blood coagulates practically instantly.
- You don’t leave pools of blood
and scratch marks(too much of a buff according to feedback) - Grunts of pain caused by injuries are reduced by 100% (was 75%)
- Your recovery speed is increased by 50% (was 25%) and you can completly recover from the dying state.
Please make it somehow better, so you don’t loose automatically when getting it in chaos shuffle or a random perk challenge. Also when teammates have it you have already lost, which is bad design in a team game.
Poised
- Whenever a Generator is completed, you benefit from the following effect for 10/12/14seconds
- First starting to repair a given Generator reveals the Aura of the Killer to you for 6 seconds.
- Your scratch marks, pools of blood and auras are hidden whenever in a radius of 9m of a completed generator, this effect lingers for 3s (new, this effect should only be limited to one floor. No idea how to write that)
Reassurance
- When within a 12meter (was 6m) radius around a hooked survivor, use the active ability button 2 to pause their struggle progression for 30seconds.
- If they are on the struggle phase, it also pauses the struggle skill checks.
Reassurance can only be triggered once per survivor per hook state.(removed) (feedback says this part should stay, because you could be hooked forever, I think it wouldn’t be a big problem)
Repressed alliance
- Repressed alliance gains one stack up to 2 (new) after repairing generators for a total of 35-40s (was 45s).
- When repairing a generator while the perk has one stack, press the active ability button 1 to consume one stack, which calls the entity to block the generator for 30s.
To make it more available.
Self preservation
- Whenever another survivor within 16m of you gets hit by a basic or special attack, self preservation activates.
- Your scratch marks, pools of blood, grunts of pain and foot steps sounds (new) are hidden for 30s (was 10s)
The perks duration is far too low and using it for flashlight saves is difficult because the killer always hears your footsteps while following another survivor.
Rockie spirit
Complete 3 good or great skill checks while repairing generators to activate Rocky Spirit for the remainder of the trial. Once active,(removed) you and your team (was only yourself) see the aura of regressing generators.
The conditions make an interesting perk not so interesting.
Saboteur
- See hook auras in a 56m radius from the pick up spot if another survivor is being carried. Scourge hooks are shown in yellow.
- Unlocks the ability to sabotage hooks without a toolbox, which takes 2s (was 2.3s)
- The sabotage action has a 40s (was 60s) cooldown after successfully sabotaging the hook (was after starting to sobotage)
- Reduces the required charges to sabo a hook by 20% (new, idea from @Xernoton)
Slippery meat
- Grants up to 3 extra escape attempts on the hook
- Hook escape attempts have a 8% (was 4%) increased chance to succeed
Spine chill
- If the Killer is within 36 metres of your location and looking at you with a clear line of sight, Spine Chill activates:
- Increases your Action speeds in Repairing, Healing, Sabotaging, Unhooking, Cleansing, Blessing, Opening, vaulting and Unlocking by 4/5/6 %.
- This effect lingers for 0.5 secondsafter the Killer loses line of sight or exits the range.
It is worse than calm spirit right now, which is very difficult to archive. Also since maps have less and worse loops it would be a problem.
Tenacity
- Your ferocious tenacity in dire situations you to crawl 50% faster and recover at the same time. Grunts of pain while in the dying state are reduced by 100% (was 75%)
With this change you might be able to get into a bush, safety or hide in time if the killer leaves you on the ground. On the other hand we have plot twist which can be triggered at any time, so you can hide somewhere else than under the killers feet and it is 100%. When plot twist can have it why not this one.
We’ll make it
- When you rescue a survivor from a hook, gain a 100% speed increase while healing (was only healing others) for 90s
Is not really much better for being on a timer than botany knowledge. Does not need it but wouldn’t hurt.
Wicked
- You self-unhook attempts in the basement always succeed.
- When you are unhooked or unhook yourself, you see the killer’s aura for 20seconds
- Allows 3 self-unhook attempts on death hook (new)
It should always have had this effect, where you can attempt to unhook yourself in the second struggle phase.
Wiretap
- Wiretap gains a up to 2 stack (new) after completing a total of 33% (was 40%) worth of repair progress.
- When standing next to a generator, press the active ability button to install wiretap, which will consume one token. Wiretap stays active until the killer damages the generator by any means (was 120s)
- Affected generators will be revealed to all survivors by a yellow aura. Only one Wiretab can be affected by on a generator.
- When the killer enters enters within 14meters of the generator, their aura is revealed to all survivors.
I think those changes would still be fair. It would be a lot better and more available. Please at least make it 33% again.
Killer
Insidious
- Standing still for 0,5s (was 2s) grants you the undetectable status effect until you move or act again.
- Undetectable status effects linger for 6 additional seconds (new)
The leather pursuer for undetectable. This change would make it better in combination with other perks and make it a lot more fun, smother and useful on its own.
Monitor & Abuse
- While in chase your terror radius increase by 8meters. Otherwise, your terror radius is decreased by 8meters.
- Hooking each survivor for the first time grants you 1 stack up to 4. Each stack increases your terror radius by 1m in chase and decreases it otherwise by 1m each.
I would love seeing it getting a buff
Hex: Two can play
- Anytime you are getting stunned or blinded by any survivor (was 2times), if there is no hex Totem associated with hex: two can play, a dull totem becomes a hex totem
- Survivors who stun or blind you are blinded for 3,5s (was 1.5s). This does not affect carried survivors. (Why is this part of the discription? How am I supposed to blind the killer while being carried?)
This perk could be fun to use when it wasn’t that bad.
Bloodhound
- Fresh blood marks are considerably more discernible than normal and can be tracked 4s longer than normal
- You see the aura of pools of blood through walls in a 12m range delayed, the aura of new pools of blood appears delayed by 1s (new)
- Healthy survivors drop pools of blood when getting chased (new)
A different way to track survivors other than auras and scratch marks.
Beast of prey
- Removes the red stain permanently (new)
- Grants the undetectable status effect after reaching bloodlust one. The status effect is lost once you loose bloodlust.
I always wanted a perk that removes the red stain.
Hex: Ruin
- All generators are affected by hex: ruin. While a generator is not being repaired by a survivor, it will immediately and automatically regress repair progress at 150% (was 100%) of the normal regression speed.
Overnerfed
Call of brine
- After damaging a generator this perk becomes active for 60s.
- The generator regresses at 150-170% (was 125%) of the normal progression speed and you can see its aura in yellow.
- Each time a Survivor completes a good skill check on a generator affected by this perk, you receive a loud noise notification.
Overnerfed. I made the regression speed of this one a bit higher than ruin and overcharge, because it is only for a limited time. You could also make the argument it shouldn’t be higher than overcharge, because overcharge has to charge up first. They should at least all be 150% in my opinion.
Overcharge
- Overcharge a generator by performing the damage generator action. The next survivor interacting with that generator is faced with a difficult skill check, failing it results in an additional 4% loss of progress. Succeeding it grants no progress but prevents the generator explosion.
- After overcharge is applied to a generator, its regression speed increases from 85% of normal to 150% (was 130%) of normal over the next 30seconds.
Overnerfed
Deerstalker
- Unlocks potential in one’s aura reading ability: The auras of survivors in the dying state within 32 meters of your location is revealed to you.
- Downing a survivor gives undetectable for 12s (new)
- All survivor within 14-18 meters of a dying survivor become oblivious (new)
Hangman’s trick
- Gain a notification when survivors begins sabotaging a hook
- While carrying a Survivor, see the aura of any survivor within 7m (was 12m) of any hook (was only scorch hook)
With this change it could become a nice tracking perk again.
Hex: Shadowborn (rework)
- Everything becomes darker for survivors and the fog is closer for them. The killer sees everything like normal
Batteries included
- When within 12meters of a generator, you get up to 5% haste depending on its progress
- The movement speed lingers for 5s after leaving the generator’s range
This way it could give you some early game value.
Territorial imperative
- Unlocks potential in your Aura-reading ability. Whenever
you are farther than24 metresfrom the basement while(removed) a Survivor enters the basement, Territorial Imperative activates:The aura of that Survivor is revealed to you for as longer as they are in it (was 4/5/6s).Territorial Imperativehas a cool-down of45 seconds.(removed) When leaving the basement the aura reading lingers for 1/2/3s. (new)
The conditions make this perk really bad and without them it could be fun to use.
Whispers
- Sporadically hear The Entity’s whisper when standing within a 24 meter (was 32m) range of a Survivor. After 15-20s of the survivors being within its range the whispering becomes directional, leading you to the survivors in range (new) and the survivors start to hear the entity’s whispering.
A different new way to find survivors other than auras and scratch marks. Maybe even a fun little perk to troll survivors when they randomly her the whispering, I have introduced it so survivors now so they know the killer knows where they are.
Undone
- When a survivor misses a healing or repair skill check, gain 6 tokens (was 3) or when a survivor hits a good repair or good healing skill check, gain 3 tokens (new), up to 30
- When you perform the break action on a generator, if you have any tokens, consume all of them. For each token consumed, the generator looses 1% progress and then blocked for 1s. Then once the generator is unblocked, it starts regressing.
This perk goes on cooldown for 60s(Removed)
This perk is too difficult to get any value from, because most survivors don’t miss skill checks and why do you have a cooldown on a perk that you can’t activate much?
Septic touch
- Whenever a survivor perform the healing action (was within your terror radius), that survivor suffers from blindness and Exhausted.
- Those effects linger for 20-30s (was 10s) after a healing action is interrupted by any means.
Was too short and too conditional. With the blindness effect change down at the bottom it will be more useful.
Thrilling tremors
- While carrying (was After picking up) a survivor, all generators not being repaired by any Survivors are blocked by the entity and cannot be repaired. This effect lingers for 16s. Affected generators are highlighted by a white aura.
Thrilling tremors can only be triggered once every 60s(removed)
Thanatophobia
- For each injured, dying or hooked Survivor, all survivors receive a penalty of 4% to repair, sabotage and totem-cleansing speeds (takes too long to type what it was)
The perk is literally only good when playing plague or legion. I try to make it more accessible for all killers.
Merciless storm
- When a generator reaches 90% progress, survivors working on the generator will be faced with continuous skill checks. If they miss or stop repairing the generator is blocked by the entity for 20s. This effect can only trigger once.
- When a survivor gets downed before 90% of generator progress, survivors on such generators will face 3 skill checks. If a survivor misses a skill check, the gen is blocked for 10s (new)
I tried to give it an additional effect, how do you feel about it?
Overwhelming presence
- Survivors within your terror radius suffer from inefficiency. Affected survivor’s items consumption rates are increased by 100%.
- The aura of survivor’s gets shown to the killer when they consume charges from their items (new), this effect lingers for 8s (new)
Now you see at least when survivors are affected by it
Shattered hope
- You can kick/distroy totems/boons that you find, which shows you the aura of all survivors for 6s (change) and it shows the aura of boon totems in a range of 18m (if boons get buffed). Doesn‘t work with pentimento
Unnerving presence
- Survivors within your terror radius have a 10% greater chance of triggering Skill checks when repeating or healing. Triggered skill check’s (was success zone are reduced by 60%) become medium difficult skill checks (like the ones from overcharge, just a bit slower).
Whenever I play against this perk, it feels like it makes hitting great skill checks easier. Whenever I play against overcharge I actually miss skill checks quite a lot.
Save the best for last
- Earn a token for each successful basic attack that is not dealt to the obsession. Each token grants 4% decreased successful basic attack cooldown, you can earn up to 8 tokens.
- When you hit the obsession with a basic attack (was or special attack), lose 2 tokens. You cannot gain tokens as longer as your obsession is sacrificed or killed.
You should not loose tokens by special attacks when you can’t gain tokens by special attacks and especially not when it doesn’t reduce the cooldown of special attacks. This perk is straight up unusable on some killers.
Gift of pain
- At the start of a the trial 4 random hooks are changed onto scorch hooks. You see their auras in white.
- When a Survivor is unhooked from a scourge hook, they suffer from the mangelnd and Hemorrhage status effect until healed (was for 90s). The first time the survivor is healed, they suffer a 16% speed penalty to healing and repairing actions until injured again.
The mangelnd and hemorrhage nerf did hurt this perk the most, personally I would also want sloppy to apply both effect permanent again too. Sloppy was my favorite killer perk.
Alien instinct
- This perk activates when you hook a survivor. You see the aura of the furthest injured survivor and all (was the furthest injured) survivors become Oblivious for 30s (was 20s).
Dissolution
3seconds(removed) after injuring a survivor by any means, Dissolution activates for 20s. While Dissolution is active, if a survivor fast vaults over a pallet inside of your terror radius, The entity will break the pallet at the end of the vault and dissolution deactivates
It is currently far too situational, because of the 3s you have to wait. Please remove or reduce the activation cooldown
and (In the wiki you can find the effects)
- Both no longer spawn a hex and affect totems/hexes/boons (change)
They spawning their own hex makes it difficult to know which hex has which effect and can lead to defending the wrong totem, which makes it frustrating to use those perks.
Hex: Haunted ground
- Three (was 2) Hex totems will spawn in the trial
- When either on of the three Hex totems is cleansed by a survivor, all survivors suffer from the exposed status effect for 60s.
The remaining trapped Hex totem immediately becomes a Dull Totem(removed)
Giving it only one use makes it really bad.
Trail of Torment
- After damaging a generator you become Undetectable until the generator stops regressing. During this time the generator’s yellow aura is revealed to survivors.
- This effect can only trigger every 30s.
- When a survivor deactivates Trail of torment by stopping the regression, that survivor suffers from oblivious for 20s (new)
Does probably not need it, but it would also not hurt
Tinkerer
- Whenever a Generator is repaired to 70 %, you benefit from the following effects: Triggers a Loud Noise Notification for that Generator, revealing its location. Status Effect for the next 12/14/16seconds.
Tinkerer can only be triggered once per generator per trial(removed)
Status effect changes:
- Blindness hides the auras of killer objectives as well
- Oblivious makes you unable to hear lullabies and you don’t see it in the visible heart beat sensor.
What do you think of these changes and what should I change to make these perks better/fairer? Constrctive feedback is very welcome.
I might add more perk changes later in the comments. The perks on the waiting list are borrow time, dead hard, undying, residual mainfest…
Comments
-
Now THIS is how perks should be treated: Bad/too niche perks buffed/reworked to be useful without being utterly busted, which encourages variety instead of reducing it.
6 -
BHVR HIRE THIS MAN
4 -
I'm not sure about Parental Guidance. You are not really supposed to escape a chase so easy. Combine this with Smash Hit and you can camp pallets and pretty always get away. It would also hurt weaker killers way more because they are usually the ones you can actually stun.
Adrenaline's healing effect was nerfed because it incentivised slugging instead of hooking. That does not need to make a comeback. Buff the duration of the speed boost instead. Make it 6-7 seconds or 200% movement speed.
I don't like the idea of Dark Theory applying hindered to the killer. Again, this wouldn't do much against any of the stronger killers (other than Plague) but it would hit M1 killers pretty hard. So it targets the wrong end if the tier list. These are also typically the killers that cannot spare the time to look for the totem.
I'm on the fence about Shadow Step as well. On one hand it would be pretty neat to be that stealthy on the other hand it would mean that a killer has to break the totem each and every time before engaging in a chase. This would be pretty harsh on maps with multiple floors.
I'm against the Any Means Necessary buff. It's already a decent perk and this would again do very little against stronger killers because you don't get to stun them, while allowing you to camp pallets and create resources out of nothing against weaker killers, who already struggled with actual pallet.
I'm not sure about Breakout. I already consider it an unhealthy perk, so anything to buff the effect wouldn't be good in my opinion.
The Finesse buff is probably fine but I would test it first before saying anything more. It's already a pretty good perk.
I have a different idea for Distortion. Start the trial with 3 stacks but only recover stacks when hooked. You get 2-3 stacks for getting hooked and another for every 15 seconds (could be less but I would test it like this first) the killer spends within 20 metres of the hook. The idea is to make it impossible for that survivor to disappear the entire match (each hook you don't take means one more hook on someone else, so you can really screw over your team with this perk) while also making it more effective against camping killers.
I'm pretty sure you mistyped the stun duration for Head On. 30 seconds would be a little much. 😅 Other than that I quite like it.
I heavily disagree with the idea for MfT. The MfT situation was terrible and we do not need a repeat of that in any way, shape or form. I'd rather they gave MfT a completely different effect. Haste is simply too fickle to balance properly.
I'm not a huge fan of permanently suppressing scratch marks even on No Mither. The killer role is already quite dependent on sound clues and this would only hit people that play without a headset or suffer any form of hearing disability.
Wouldn't that be a pretty strong nerf to Poised? If your scratch marks were only invisible within a 9m range of the gen and only for 14 seconds (+ 3 seconds lingering) that would make it weaker than it is now since you get to keep it for the duration no matter where you run.
I don't like your idea for Reassurance. Pausing struggle skill checks is fine but there is a reason it can only be used once per hook state. You're not supposed to be on that hook for so long no matter the reason. Increase the activation range so that you can use it without entering the basement instead. That should be fine.
I can't put my finger on it but something about Repressed Alliance gaining a stack every 30 seconds sounds off to me. Make it 40 seconds and test it that way. Other than that I like the idea.
Saboteur sounds nice except for the part about toolboxes. The sabo speed of toolboxes is already pretty fast, so buffing it would only lead to more situations like with Alex' toolbox where you can always sabo the hook without any issue. Sabo plays are supposed to be risky and situational because the payoff is so huge.
I think Slippery Meat should have a completely different effect. It's only good for luck offering SWFs and that is pretty horrible to play against already. This buff wouldn't make it much better for normal use.
I would rather not see a return of the vault speed build. So I don't think Spine Chill should get that part back. It would also lead to very awkward situations where a killer would try not to look in your direction during a chase.
For Tenacity I'm not a huge fan of it making you completely silent. It's so damn confusing each time you down a survivor and they glitch around and end up being silent too (we already had that as a glitch and it seemed to make a return a few months ago). Activate the reduction of sound 5 seconds after the down and I'm fine with it being 100%. Or better yet BHVR fix this weird glitching around after a down (it has been in the game for 2+ years now).
We'll Make It is already a great perk. It doesn't need a buff.
I think Wicked should simply work on both hook stages. It's quite situational already so that should be fine.
Wiretap should be activated after 33% and that's it. I'm not a fan of it having 2 stacks.
The other survivor perks I didn't mention, I am completely fine with. I'll look over the killer perk changes later.
4 -
Thanks. I would if I could XD.
Post edited by Langweilg on1 -
Xernoton? Freddy avatar? What!?
Regarding OP:
There is so much there, it'd take me half a day to go through everything. Pretty much agree with Xernonton.
Stand out to me is the Ace in the Hole Basekit buff. I like that suggestion a lot....
For a new effect, maybe something like:
Once per trial, you can trigger this perk while searching/rummaging a chest. The next item pulled from this chest will be ultra rare or have an ultra rare add-on. It's basically a guaranteed: -
- Medkit: Gel Dressing or Syringe (Pharmacy buff)
- Toolbox: Brand New Part (Scavenger buff)
- Flashlight: Odd Bulb (Residual Manifest buff)
- Map: Iri, gives that sweet totem tracking vs. Devour Hope and Pentimento.
- Key: Iri, no more broken keys cucking you for hatch.
I don't think any of this is too strong since you are having to go and find a chest and spend the time opening it.
For medkits you can't guarantee a syringe, so that atill seems fine.
For toolboxes with the BNP, it takes more time to find and open the chest and bring it back to the gen than it does to just keep repairing, and you're also running Scavenger which can hurt your repair timings.
Other items aren't oppressive I feel. I feel this gives Ace in the Hole genuine usefulness in a looter build.
1 -
Thanks for the detailed feedback.
About the weaker killer argument you bring a lot, shure you have to consider it, but not being able to buff anything because of them would mean you can never buff anything. This is a different problem and they should focus on buffing the weaker killers to make them all a lot more even to the stronger ones.
Parental guidance: Stunning the killer is already very hard, so I think this one deserves to be better. I mostly play this perk with head on and either the killer sees me immediately again or hears my foot steps and when I finally manage to hide, then the perk runs out to too early. What do you think would be a fair number? (10s would be too little in my opinion)
Adrenaline: I extremely disliked the adrenaline nerf. What logic is this; We have an endgame perk that activates only once and when you get there it doesn’t activate. Adrenaline was fair before the nerf, just the pick rate was a bit too high, which could make it frustrating sometimes (we also have so many killers perks that are frustrating too). When somebody reaches endgame they should get their heal, that’s the whole purpose of this perk.
Shadow step: I can understand it, but you can still see pools of blood. I don’t think it hiding footsteps would be too much, but I can’t test it myself to find out, how it plays out. This is actually the only boon I would say that is in a good spot.
Dark theory: I struggled between giving it more haste or giving the killer hindered and I found giving the killer hindered a lot more useful. So you think everything except of the hindered is fine? I think this perk needs to get tested to find out wether it’s to strong or still not good enough with it.
Head on: Yeah I mistyped it to 30s, I actually meant 3s.
Any means necessary: Do you really consider party pallets to be that good? Hitting them is quite hard and winning against pallet campers with party pallets was never really hard. With this perk you would have to set them up first and it is only one, that you get after being chased for a long time. You would probably also only get to use one of them per match, it does not sound that good to me to be honest.
MFT: So let me start with boon dark theory, nobody plays it for 2 reasons the 2% haste is too low and it is a boon. Now we also have far more and more reliable anti exhaustion perks, which need to have some use. The thing is 3% wasn’t super strong either, but yeah there I actually also bring the weak killer argument, which only made them unfun. In my opinion the right nerf they should have been reducing the haste or removing the endurance, not making it almost impossible to get the effect. It was one of my favorite perks, because it made playing survivor less about bad ping and learning looping was more fun. Also having more exhaustion perks that aren’t just 50% speed for 3s would be cool.
No mither: Well with this perk, when you are found, you are dead, so getting found more difficult means you are less likely dead (that’s my reason). I agree with you even tho l don’t want to.
Breakout: I don’t consider it unhealthy to be fair, I tried to remove the frustration I have with this perk a bit, which is the range. I reduced the range from 7 to 6 so it still only 1m more than it is in live.
Reassurance: “Pausing struggle skill checks is fine”- That was already part of the perk. “but there is a reason it can only be used once per hook state. You're not supposed to be on that hook for so long no matter the reason.”- Why not? It supposed to counter camping annd the killer can just keep chasing someone else if he sees the survivor glo and eventually the antiacmp would fill up the bar too. “Increase the activation range so that you can use it without entering the basement instead. That should be fine.”- I did increase the range.
Repressed alliance: Maybe I made it a bit too fast to get. 40s would be fine, the stacks is the main part I wanted. I change it to 40s
Saboteur: I can understand it. Just to make my reason a bit more clear; When playing it, it always feels like it should have some effect on toolboxes and I wanted a perk that increases sabo speeds for a long time.
Poised: Maybe I need your help to write it right. My idea was making it work like chucky’s batteries included and keep the old effects like they were. This means whenever in a 9m radius of a completed generator you would be immune to aura reading, leave no scratch marks and leave no pools of blood. So to answer your question it should not be a nerf. The numbers of the new effect can be changed, I just needed something to start with.
Wiretab: I wanted to place multiple ones and be ble to recharge it while another one is placed.
We’ll make it does not need- true, but why not?
Spine chill: Well there we both just want different things. I for my part did not play back then, where it was popular, but currently it is completly useless, more useless than calm spirit, which is difficult. I kept the current activation requirements and not the ones from the past, I think the major different things would be; it does not work through walls and when the killer is undetectable and I also didn’t make it as high (it was 10%→ 8%)
Slippery meat: Shure, but thisway it could also be good in not swfs.
Should I add to the status effect part luck. I would make luck affect chests for better items.
Tenacity: I know what you mean and that it activates after some seconds would be a good idea. Would probably make it delay the silent effect by 2-3s, instead of 5s, but I’m also I shure wether or not this would kill this perk.
Edit: I forgot distortion: Your idea seems better than what the devs are going to do, so I would take this one as well👍
I’m looking forward to the killer changes feedback.
Post edited by Langweilg on0 -
Good idea! I agree with what you say. It would be funny if they introduced more iri items for this perk, but I would not like if it were just higher numbers, they would need to have something unique.
0 -
Monitor & Abuse
This perk is for making reading the terror radius more difficult and to confuse someone with that. Outside it decreases your terror radius by 8+(new 4m), which makes survivors think you are faster away than you are and it increases you terror radius by 8+4m in chase which makes you feel like the killer is closer than he really is.
Beast of prey
… would not be op in my opinion, but strong. On the other hand we have undetectable killers, addons and perk, that do the exact same thing which aren’t op either. Maybe it should have some sort of condition, if you have an idea for that let me now.
Yes hangman’s trick once was all hooks, I can’t say wether or not it included scotch hooks so. Sadly it got nerfed for no good reason.
Well shadowborn was just an idea; how it would be executed is up to the devs, but you could always get rid of it by finding and cleansing the hex so.
Batteries included
When did they buff it? I only remember they reverted the nerf. My idea would just give it some value near gens that are being worked on.
Deerstalker
Well the my idea was trying to find effects that synergies with its current effect and it already was a slugging perk, maybe permanent oblivious is a bit too much around a slugged survivor. How would you make it fairer?
Territorial imperative
I’m mixed what to answer. On one hand the conditions make an interesting and potentially good perk extremely bad, but it could also be frustrating to play against. I think a wait for a bit more feedback on this one.
Undone
I would argue that new players won’t even have access to this perk and the killer: Unknown. They probably also won’t know about this perk until they are no longer new and I don’t think they miss that many skill checks that this perk will become too good.
ThanathaphobiaThis version that I suggest was one of its weaker forms like, but the stronger form which lead to this nerf was with 5,5% and making it 4% it probably be fine.
Shattered hope
Interesting perspective, but I don’t think this speaks against this perk. The major reason why I want to change it is, because I want killers to be able to break boon totems basekit to also buff boons, so now this perk would need a new effect.
Gift of pain
…is a scorche hook perk, which gives you those two effects after the unhook. I think it ending a scourge hook perk should make it better than sloppy, therefore permanent mangled and hemorrhage.
Yes Thrill of the hunt and retribution no longer spawn a hex, but can still help them out.
Thanks for the detailed feedback, I really appreciate it. If I forgot something I should have responded to please tell me. I respond to the survivor perks later.
1 -
Gift of pain: Oh well I forgot to change the mangled and hemorrhage back in the right way, both would be permanent until you get healed fully healed. I have to figure out how to rewrite that.
Shattered hope: I don’t think it will hinder you much, cause there are so many other quest that aren’t distroying totems and l doubt many people will play this perk.
Monitor & Abuse is partly like the perk from plague, but also not. It does only make your own terror radius smaller and bigger depending on being in chase. It is just to confuse like the plague perk and to give you a bit of stealth.
Shadowborn: I would make it different than old dbd and nightfall from dredge. It would make everything a bit darker and make that the further you look you see only outlines of structures and characters until you see nothing (just like real fog and not the clouds we have as fog).
Beast of prey: We have perks like trail of tourment, tinkerer and many more, we have addons on killers like Wesker or was it nemesis ……where you become undetectable after using the syringe or deo, we have killer powers that make you undetectable like Ghosty, Chucky, Onryo, Myers … All the stuff with undetectable removes the red stain, but they also remove aura reading on the killer and remove the terror radius. I think this perk would be fair since you still hear the terror radius and in most cases you can see the killer over loops or they have sound clues.
Deerstalker: I will limit the oblivious effect somehow, I have to find out how to rewrite it first.
Undone: Well even when new players would have him, I wouldn’t say it would hurt new players much more than it does right now since it isn’t played right now at all, because survivors don’t miss many skill checks even when you play doctor it isn’t much (I tried that many times). I tried to keep the old effect in tact while making it less reliant on survivors missing by gaining tokens by normal skill checks.
1 -
Too much self healing and bad powercreep in general.
2 -
Weaving spidersI think you misunderstood this one, the survivors loose one hook state and when having 0 hooks they are on first hook after completing it and then this perk removes 10charges from each gen.
Adrenaline - Well that is just an opinion thing, there isn’t much to discuss.
strength in shadows
I don’t get why you think I nerf this perk? I buffed the self healing speed from 70%→ 90% to make it twice as much as self care again.
COH
What people have to understand is that old COH was 100% or higher, before they removed the self healing part. It would be completly fine with only 45% of self healing. This is very slow and a lot slower than it has been. Also killers would have shattered hope basekit now.
Empathic connection
I don’t understand you here. The one from cloudat let’s you see injured survivors auras and yoichi’s let’s other survivors see your aura (now always instead of only when they are injured) and it now also let’s you heal yourself 30% faster, so how are they becoming more similar when they do completely different things?
Any means necessary
My idea is not to creat normal pallets rather party pallets from the anniversary. You know what they do?-They break after dropping them.
Appraisal
I don’t see the problem and I doubt that it will lead to lags.
Camaraderie
Please explain to me why this effect is so strong? I see it as extremely weak.
No mither
Well it is difficult to argue about liking and not liking something. I will probably remove the permanent scratch mark hidding from it after more feedback.
Reassurance
It is actually used quite a few times by ransoms, but the negatives make it bad. It wouldn’t hurt make it better. I kinda get the feeling you like camping a lot.
Self preservation
Sorry wrote that wrong, I have changed it now, thanks for showing it to me
Wicked
We just disagree here. I think this perk is far too conditional and that was the effect I suggested in the ptb from the unknown chapter. I don’t think it would be too strong so. It is an anti camping perk again, feels like you don’t want perks that counter camping buffed.
Wiretap
It was bugged and nerfed. They made the duration a lot longer, but increased the repair requirement from 33% to 50% to 40%, hopefully soon to 33% again
Post edited by Langweilg on0 -
what i dont like with BHVR right now is they nerf more than they buff. They only focus on perks that need nerf (according to data) rather than give us other perk overhaul. Like they say on the first one, they plan to do more overhauls more regular. Yet they dont. Your suggestions are good attempt at giving other perks some love.
Completely agree, I hope they change that direction. It is becoming more and more frustrating what and how they nerf things, that either don’t need it or they go way too far.
1 -
Do you want to be more specific if you want to discuss anything?
To the self healing, they completly overnerfed it.
1 -
Yes agree, often they make very questionable changes.
Did you understand what I meant with weaving spiders?
0 -
Well I like the idea obviously, because I suggested it. I think to know whether or not it would be too strong, it would need to get tested. I think loosing a hook state is a big drawback, just not as bad as broken for the rest of the trial.
0 -
I played a lot of Freddy recently (I'm taking a little break from the chainsaw-maniac) and we all know that this poor killer deserves a bit of love. I figured I might as well show a little solidarity. 😇
About the weaker killer argument you bring a lot, shure you have to consider it, but not being able to buff anything because of them would mean you can never buff anything.
Good point. I guess I should have explained a little more thorough. What I meant was more that these perks don't help you as much against the killers that you really struggle with while providing a lot of value against killers that are in a rough spot anyway. I'm not a big fan of perks like that.
For Parental Guidance I would probably go for 12 seconds. Maybe even only 10. It's a bit hard to predict how strong it would be without a test. 15 seconds just sounds like a little much too me.
I understand where you're coming from with Adrenaline. But I disagree that the health state should be the main aspect because the counterplay is so awkward and no exactly the most fun for survivors either. Before the nerf you would basically sabotage yourself if you hooked that survivor instead of slugging. The speed boost is more consistent and that's why I would prefer that part to be buffed instead.
For Dark Theory and Shadow Step I understand that I may be a bit overly cautious. I just thought of a different effect for Dark Theory that would make it stronger but without the extra hindered effect. You could recover your exhaustion while running for as long as you are in range. What do you think?
Any Means Necessary: I don't consider party pallets to be super strong but one of the most important balancing aspect for killers that don't have very oppressive chase powers are finite resources for survivors. Against most M1 killers (Doctor is an exception) you can simply camp these pallets and play around that while against most S-tier and A-tier killers (Plague without power is another exception) it does nothing. That just doesn't sound good to me.
The problem with MfT (or rather haste in general) is that it messes with a very core aspect that the game is built around; the speed difference between killer and survivor. 3% isn't much but considering that the killer is only 15% faster than you, that's 20% of this speed difference. So it did have a pretty strong impact. Balancing that will always be a headache, so I think it would be a better option to rework this perk altogether.
No Mither: I get it. It's hard to think of something that would make this perk slightly less horrible, that would still keep the original effect.
Breakout: The reason why I consider Breakout unhealthy is that it will never be good or decent if not in a build that is dedicated to make people unhookable. So the counterplay is slugging.
Saboteur: Maybe it could make toolboxes more efficient instead of making them faster. So you would need like 20% less charges to sabo a hook.
Reassurance: Whoops, I misread the part about Reassurance's range. My apologies. Maybe the effect could last 10 seconds longer but we saw some people pause their teammate's hook timer for a pretty long time when it was released, which unfortunately has a similar effect to being slugged. You're bored out of your mind because you don't get to play the game. With 70 seconds hook stages and the effect lasting 40 seconds you get quite some time out of that already. 110 seconds is enough for that survivor to get off the hook with no issue, if the killer is actually camping.
Repressed Alliance: I see. I'm not completely against it having 2 stacks but I think it should come with more time to charge indeed. I can't quite put my finger on it but something tells me that might be a bit off otherwise.
Poised: Ahh, I see. That would be pretty neat. Although on some maps it would be almost as if you didn't leave any scratch marks at all in end game. That is more of a problem with these maps of course but we could add that it only works when you are on the same floor as that gen.
Wiretap: What always puts me off a little when it comes to this perk is that killers that kick every gen aren't really affected by it while those that focus more on chases instead of slowdown (such as myself) will be revealed for quite some time. So it's a perk that doesn't work very well against the killer meta but is all the better against off-meta killers, if you catch my drift. I would test it on a PTB to see how it would actually feel though.
Spine Chill: It used to be 6% faster vaults and it would always be paired with Resilience (so 15% in total). I'll admit, it might be me being biased but I never want to see this return. It was fairly common and it limited perk variety quite a bit.
For killer perks:
Insidious: That's actually a pretty neat idea. Although I would add, that Insidious doesn't affect itself. Otherwise a killer would have a reliable way to remove their red stain in chase, which is a part of Ghostface's strength.
M&A: The Doctor says "Thank you". 😈 I'd take it. It could be a little mean on Doc (escpecially after his most recent buff) but it should be fine.
Hex: Two Can Play: I'd test it at 3 seconds first because it's a perk that affects less experienced survivors more and it could really mess with them. Kind of like Huntress Lullaby. Otherwise, a good change. I thought about your question and I'm not sure if it works when you use Power Struggle or DS or wiggle out. So my guess is that this might be the reason.
Bloodhound: I like the aura vision part (although maybe it should slightly increase the time it takes for pools of blood to spawn while in chase, just so it doesn't work like budget wallhacks) but I'm not so sure about healthy survivors bleeding. It could mess with you when you chase someone and they run into a healthy teammate and it would also be a little weird.
Beast of Prey: I'm not a big fan of removing the red stain permanently. It's part of the killer's skill expression to hide / use it.
Hex: Ruin: The only reason I am not completely convinced is because that meta doesn't need to return. Then again, with 150% it would probably still remain more off-meta, so it should be fine. Although, personally I liked that it deactivated when a survivor died because that served as an in-built anti tunneling mechanic.
Call of Brine: I discussed this recently in a different thread and I think regression over time affects solo queue players way more than SWFs because in a SWF someone can and will take over on your gen to stop the regression (except Ruin). So I'm a little on the fence about it.
Overcharge: Same thing here.
Deerstalker: My main issue with this perk is that it incentivises slugging, which is already an issue judging by the complaints on the forum. It might be better if that perk got a complete rework.
Hangman's Trick: A 12 metres range around every hook would cover pretty much the entire map, wouldn't it? So it could end up replacing BBQ, which I'm not 100% sure is a good thing. It might be worth testing it though.
Hex: Shadowborn: I like it but since the devs haven't figured out what to do with Freddy in Lights Out, I have my doubts this will ever be a thing.
Batteries Included: Same thing as with MfT. I'm very cautious when it comes to haste. It only working on finished gens added a condition to it that made it more niche, which is why I don't have as much of an issue with it.
Territorial Imperative: It should be fine in terms of balance but it is a camping perk, which I'm not sure is something that killers should have.
Whispers: That is a very unique effect and it would definitely help. Since the timer is also quite noticeable it wouldn't work as an auto pilot to always find survivors without having to pit in any effort either, which is good. Although, we would need to discuss how it would work with multiple survivors in range. Would it lead you to the closest survivor or perhaps one survivor with the least hook stages?
Undone: It's hard to say whether or not this would be a good change. Maybe the devs could provide us with stats for how many skill checks there are in an average game. Just to have an idea how many tokens you would get when nobody messes up a skill check. Also, how about making it 3 stacks on good skill checks and none for greats? I feel like that would allow survivors to counter this perk if they are good enough at hitting great skill checks.
Septic Touch: That sounds great. That would make it a pretty strong perk. Maybe the exhaustion timer could be slightly lower than the blindness timer. No particular reason other than the fact that survivors couldn't really play around it.
Thrilling Tremours: Sounds good to me. I can't think of any obvious issues.
Thanatophobia: I wouldn't want to play against a Nurse or Blight with this perk. That said, I'm not a big fan of this perk either way. The red progress bar just has such a demoralising effect.
Merciless Storm: This perk can currently only be activated once per gen. How would that work with your version? Would that secondary effect work independently or would it work once as well? Or would these effects be mutually exclusive?
Overwhelming Presence: Technically survivors are affected by it any time they enter your TR, so this would reveal them each time for 8 seconds. Is this what you meant or did you mean that survivors are only revealed when they use their items? The latter would be fine, the first not so much. Especially if you were to combine it with Insidious.
Shattered Hope: Sounds like a very good perk actually. I like it and I'm happy to see you considered Pentimento too. 👍🏻
Unnerving Presence: No. Bad idea. Picture a Doctor or Wesker with Distressing and Unnerving Presence on a small map. Less experienced survivors would lose every game against this combination and it would be a pain on every killer (except Freddy, funnily enough) as well.
STBFL: I still think it didn't need any nerf at all. The 5% per token were fine and the second condition wasn't an issue either in my opinion. But it seems we are in the minority.
Gift of Pain: This would probably be fine but I honestly like the current version more. I'd rather the Mangled and Hemorrhage effects being temporary than only getting to use the other effect once per survivor.
Alien Instinct: Apparently newer players struggle pretty hard with the oblivious status effect, so this would turn this perk into a noob stomper. I don't think that's a great idea.
Dissolution: I see where you're coming from and I agree that it's quite situational but without the timer it would break pallets even when you hit a survivor during the vault animation. That's not ideal.
I'm kind of indifferent about the Retribution and Thrill of the Hunt but there might be some nasty builds with these 2 no longer having the risk of being a hex. So I would need to test it to be sure.
Haunted Grounds: That would make it pretty nasty. Maybe even slightly overtuned in some builds. If you combined it with Undying, this could activate Haunted Grounds up to 4 times. Slap on Devour Hope and your reworked version of Retributation (or Pentimento) as well and you have yourself a really disgusting build.
Trail of Torment: Agreed. It's not really necessary but it also wouldn't hurt.
Tinkerer: That would be pre 6.1.0 Tinkerer again. I'm fine with that in theory but the reason they nerfed it back then was to get it out of the meta, which I understand 100%. It had had a very high pick rate for years already. I'm not completely sure how it would hold up today, so I'm on the fence about it.
For status effects:
Blindness: That might be problematic on Pig and Pinhead. Other than that I think it would be fine.
Oblivious: I don't necessarily dislike it but that would defeat the purpose lullabies, wouldn't it? The reason Huntress has a lullaby is because it might be pretty disgusting if she could approach you without warning.
There are many good ideas in your post and I respect the time and effort you must have spent on this. Here is a cookie for you: 🍪
1 -
Honestly, Agree or disagree with balances and changes and how good or bad they are…..
ALL OF THESE ARE INFINITELY MORE INTERESTING THAN ANY RECENT TWEAKS AND COULD SHAKE UP THE META
Bro cooked
2 -
Thanks for the cookie. I took really long (a week), it feels good that the work is appreciated.
Parental Guidance I change it to 12 seconds.
Dark Theory and Shadow Step: I change the hindered to being able to recover from exhaustion while running. The funny thing is this seems stronger to me than the hindered.
Any Means necessary: I think you make them look a lot stronger than they would be. Party pallets are really easy to deal with and only getting one after a long time getting chased would be fine.
MFT: I think haste is difficult to discuss when we argue just about opinions. I for my part found MFT with 3% only on certain killers too much, but generally fine. With it being lower and easier to counter, because of more counter perks, it would be fine.
No Mither: “I get it. It's hard to think of something that would make this perk slightly less horrible, that would still keep the original effect.” 😅
Breakout: “
The reason why I consider Breakout unhealthy is that it will never be good or decent if not in a build that is dedicated to make people unhookable. So the counterplay is slugging.”(Sorry, I can’t removes the lines, I don’t know why.) To the perk; So changing it to 6m would change nothing.
Saboteur: “Maybe it could make toolboxes more efficient instead of making them faster. So you would need like 20% less charges to sabo a hook.” - I take that instead, how would I write that in the perk?Reassurance: I think I just leave it with the range buff for now even tho I don’t think hanging on the hook for a while would be that big of a problem.
Repressed Alliance: “I see. I'm not completely against it having 2 stacks but I think it should come with more time to charge indeed.” - I’ve put it back to 40s like you suggested.
Poised: “Ahh, I see. That would be pretty neat. Although on some maps it would be almost as if you didn't leave any scratch marks at all in end game. That is more of a problem with these maps of course but we could add that it only works when you are on the same floor as that gen.” - How should I write them.
Wiretap: “What always puts me off a little when it comes to this perk is that killers that kick every gen aren't really affected by it while those that focus more on chases instead of slowdown (such as myself) will be revealed for quite some time. So it's a perk that doesn't work very well against the killer meta but is all the better against off-meta killers, if you catch my drift. I would test it on a PTB to see how it would actually feel though.” - Testing it first sounds good
Spine Chill: “It used to be 6% faster vaults”- I change it down to 6% again, I read it wrong in the wiki. There it said something about 10%.
For killer perks:
Insidious: “That's actually a pretty neat idea. Although I would add, that Insidious doesn't affect itself.” -But I actually want that as buff.
“Otherwise a killer would have a reliable way to remove their red stain in chase, which is a part of Ghostface's strength.” Understandable, but I think it would be fine.M&A:” The Doctor says "Thank you". 😈 I'd take it. It could be a little mean on Doc (escpecially after his most recent buff) but it should be fine.” - Why will this be mean on doctor. You would not be able to do something new with him.
Hex: Two Can Play: “I'd test it at 3 seconds first because it's a perk that affects less experienced survivors more and it could really mess with them.” - I make it 3,5s so it is in the middle.
“I thought about your question and I'm not sure if it works when you use Power Struggle or DS or wiggle out. So my guess is that this might be the reason.” - Should I remove this line would be funny if it works there.Bloodhound: “I like the aura vision part (although maybe it should slightly increase the time it takes for pools of blood to spawn while in chase, just so it doesn't work like budget wallhacks)” - Good Point, I will look how to write that.
“but I'm not so sure about healthy survivors bleeding. It could mess with you when you chase someone and they run into a healthy teammate and it would also be a little weird.” - I think this is fine.Beast of Prey: “I'm not a big fan of removing the red stain permanently. It's part of the killer's skill expression to hide / use it.” - It would be a perk like windows, where it would just help out less experienced players and a waste of a perk slot when you just learn. Wasting a perk slot for something you don’t want to learn seems fair to me.
Hex: Ruin/Overcharge/Call of brine: I think all of them should at least be 150%, then you would decide which one to take around the second effect. Lower than 150% is just too weak. To your points; Ruin: I’m not a fan giving a hex even more deactivation conditions (also when they are good), about soloq: That can be said about everything in this game.
Deerstalker: “My main issue with this perk is that it incentivises slugging, which is already an issue judging by the complaints on the forum. It might be better if that perk got a complete rework.” - I’m already looking into making the oblivious not permanent, I will change that part, but l will keep it as slugging perk.
Hangman's Trick: “A 12 metres range around every hook would cover pretty much the entire map, wouldn't it?” - I just wanted to revert it, forgot the range part. It would be 7m (before it got change was 6m)
Hex: Shadowborn: “I like it but since the devs haven't figured out what to do with Freddy in Lights Out, I have my doubts this will ever be a thing.” - They can just write does not work in dream world into the discription, if they can’t figure it out.
Batteries Included: Same as with MFT
Territorial Imperative: camping: We have the anti camp now, so I don’t think it would be that big of a deal and we could just make it deactivate when someone is hooked in the basement
Whispers: “Would it lead you to the closest survivor or perhaps one survivor with the least hook stages?” - I wanted it to lead you to all survivors at the same time, so the sounds Caine from 2/3/4 places if that is technically possible, which I think it is. If not, then the nearest, but I’m open for every type of prioritizing system.
Undone: “It's hard to say whether or not this would be a good change. Maybe the devs could provide us with stats for how many skill checks there are in an average game. Just to have an idea how many tokens you would get when nobody messes up a skill check.”- Shure that would have to be considered, but I don’t think Mandy will give us those stats to discuss that.
“Also, how about making it 3 stacks on good skill checks and none for greats?” - I will change it to only gives stacks on good skill checks.Septic Touch: “That sounds great. That would make it a pretty strong perk. Maybe the exhaustion timer could be slightly lower than the blindness timer. No particular reason other than the fact that survivors couldn't really play around it.” Is 25s better or should I go to 22s?
Thanatophobia: “I wouldn't want to play against a Nurse or Blight with this perk. That said, I'm not a big fan of this perk either way. The red progress bar just has such a demoralising effect.” - Understandable, but since many considered this perk weak at 4,5%, I think it would be fine with 4%, which is 4% less than in live (live:20%;new:16%)
Merciless Storm: I will probably have to rewrite it. It was meant to only work once when you reach 90% and then you get skill checks until 100% or missing. The new effect has no limit and can only be triggered before 90%, so it does not work against the normal effect, which blocks 10s longer. You can suggest an activation condition for the second effect, I’m currently not so happy about it triggering when sombody gets downed. After it gets activated survivors on generator get 3 continuous skill ckecks, when missed the gen is blocked for 10s.
Overwhelming Presence: “Technically survivors are affected by it any time they enter your TR, so this would reveal them each time for 8 seconds. Is this what you meant or did you mean that survivors are only revealed when they use their items? The latter would be fine, the first not so much. Especially if you were to combine it with Insidious.” - It was meant when you use your items and when they suffer from the inefficiency, if both things apply it shows the aura, so you Se it affects somebody. How should I write that?
Unnerving Presence: “No. Bad idea. Picture a Doctor or Wesker with Distressing and Unnerving Presence on a small map. Less experienced survivors would lose every game against this combination and it would be a pain on every killer (except Freddy, funnily enough) as well.” - Well it would now finally do what it is supposed to do. Are there medium difficult skill checks that are the same sice as overcharge, but a bit slower.
STBFL: “I still think it didn't need any nerf at all. The 5% per token were fine and the second condition wasn't an issue either in my opinion. But it seems we are in the minority.” Agree, but I tried to solve the bigger issue I have with this perk. I can live with the 4%, but loosing tokens by special attacks is terrible.
Gift of Pain: “This would probably be fine but I honestly like the current version more. I'd rather the Mangled and Hemorrhage effects being temporary than only getting to use the other effect once per survivor.” When reverting it I forgot the part, where the mengeld effect is gone when healed.
Alien Instinct: “Apparently newer players struggle pretty hard with the oblivious status effect, so this would turn this perk into a noob stomper. I don't think that's a great idea.” - Well shure, but then we would need to remove oblivious completely. I think it would be fine.
Dissolution: I think this would need to get tested and even when you vault and it breaks instantly, would probably be fine.
Haunted Grounds: “That would make it pretty nasty. Maybe even slightly overtuned in some builds. If you combined it with Undying, this could activate Haunted Grounds up to 4 times. Slap on Devour Hope and your reworked version of Retributation (or Pentimento) as well and you have yourself a really disgusting build.” - Well it’s on the survivors, should I reduce it to 2 or would that be too bad again.
For status effects:
Blindness: “That might be problematic on Pig and Pinhead. Other than that I think it would be fine.” - Blindness is always on a very short timer, so it would be fine and third seal is a hex.
Oblivious: I don't necessarily dislike it but that would defeat the purpose lullabies, wouldn't it? - It’s a horror game is my final argument and I very dislike that you have such a huge disadvantage with certain killers. Onryo is so negatively affected by it and I want a way to deal with it.
1 -
Thank you
0 -
when reading the changes, the killer perk buffs are too good for bvhr for them to do it. strangely enough i don't have much disagree with survivor perk buffs except 1.
Slippery meat. I am pretty sure that with 8% luck increase with salty jar of lips and up the ante, your nearly guaranteed to unhook yourself. idk how healthy of gameplay it is for a perk to completely invalidate hook timer. right now it is 100% chance to unhook yourself in swf but it only occurs on start of hook timer, so technically killer can still camp. with that change, i think you can unhook yourself in like 3 attempts meaning that killer has to wait at least 30 seconds of the hook timer before survivor even attempts to unhook themselves. i suspect it could be little problematic.
going back to killer perk, i just don't think BVHR is competent in buffing killer perks beyond gen defence. I'd love to use monitor&abuse or battery included perk but BVHR just seems against any perk giving killer value. they're like… nerfing weave attunement in like next month so good luck on them buffing these suggested perk changes.
0 -
I’ve at least tried to suggest something. I don’t agree with behaviors way of balancing. In 90% of the cases they don’t even try to make fair changes, they just straight up make things useless and they already did this long before skull merchant.
Slippery meat: How far do you think I should/could buff it? I want to make it better in soloq in swf it was already really good.
My idea of balance is strong killer perks against strong survivor perks. Behaviors idea of balancing is weak killer perks against weak survivors perks. I find the second way boring. On the other hand I tried to not go over the top with my suggestions, so behavior would not consider my ideas terrible.
I consider weave attunement already too weak is the funny thing. Played one match with it and lost because l wanted to get value from it. All survivors just dropped all their items into corners and woop I had 2 perks less.
1 -
i think strong perk vs strong perk can lead to unfair occurring situations but these unfair situation are only perceptions of unfairness. for example deliverence in end game, a lot of killer will go salty when you hook a survivor, 2 people escape and the last guy on hook deliverance out of the trial for 4 man escape. i think it is important give yourself wiggle room for what unfair situations you accept as normal gameplay vs unfair situations that are detested. In the other words, What do you enjoy losing against?
Behaviors idea of balancing is weak killer perks against weak survivors perks. I find the second way boring.
I think weak vs weak goes into another problem. I am going call this problem functional balance. This is where strong aspect of the game are those that functionally strong by rule and not by number. an example of what i mean by that is like exhaustion perks. exhaustion perk are not strong numerically speaking but they're strong because of the function they provide to the survivor which is making distance. this can be extended let say… second chance perk like endurance where the rule is that a killer that hits a survivor with endurance suffers blade wipe cooldown and speed boost. the strength is in the implicit rules of the game, not the numbers. there is a lot of other examples fall into that category like game-delay perks adding additional flat time which becomes universal metric that all killers can use.
in my opinion, dumbing the game down by having weak perks makes the functional strong perk rise up and pushes away any numerical type perk to be relevant because any numerical perk becoming relevant will be weakened to not be numerically relevant. it is almost like hidden imbalance if that makes any sense. A lot of dbd is like that. nothing is explicitly imbalanced in your face, it is all like hidden strong. design strong.
0 -
Thanks for inviting me into this discussion!
I'm kind of late to this, but these are my thoughts (keep in mind that if I don't mention something, I'm mostly fine with it)
Appraisal:
• The changes seem unnecessary. You don't need 20 items per game.Autodidact:
• Yes please, this is great change! This one is good.Camaraderie:
• So, if I understand correctly, you just get 30 extra seconds for doing nothing? The other changes are fine, but the presence of a survivor condition should stay (the range could be bigger though)Finesse:
• I think the cooldown should be reduced slightly instead of removing the healthy condition.Distortion:
• The upcomming effect seems good enough.Lightfooted:
• YES.Made for This:
• I don't think it's a good idea to reintroduce the original MfT, especially after the chaos it caused upon it's first arrival.Lucky Break:
• Nice idea with the perk stopping while walking. I like it.Spine Chill:
• I'd rather see the "killer has to have a clear line of sight" condition removed than reintroducing vaulting boosts.Wicked:
• I like it.Insidious:
• Yes, yes, yes, I want this. We need this in live.Bloodhound:
• Seeing blood pools through walls seems a bit too much. The rest of the changes are great.Hex: Ruin/Call of Brine/Overcharge:
• Yes, yes and yes.
• For Overbrine, I'd even bump them up to 200% but make them not stack.Hex: Shadowborn:
• A brilliant idea! I love it!Territorial Imperative:
• Great buffs 👍Thrilling Tremors:
• Very nice change!Merciless Storm:
• I don't really get the new effect, nor do I think it's necessary.STBFL:
• Great change, love it!Gift of Pain/Mangled:
• Agree 100%Dissolution:
• Yes, I like this change, this is nice.Tinkerer:
• Oh nice, one of my favorite perks getting buffs! Like it!Status effect changes:
• Uhhh.... I'm not sure here.Overall, a lot of nice changes, and a few questionable ones.
0 -
Well it’s on the killer when deliverance happens in the endgame. It’s not unfair if the killer played bad until then. The perk also can have 0 effect.
I have no idea what to answer at the second part.
I for my part want strong (not OP) perks that have cool and interesting abilities that are fun to use, currently we only get weak or completly niche perks, that are boring. I consider old DH for distance fun, but I found the invincibility stupid. It should have just been a dash with wich you dodge a hit or make fast a short distance.
0 -
Appraisal: Yes but why not? I don’t see anything speaking against it.
Cameraderie:
Please explain to me why 30s on your own hook stages would be so strong? I consider this as super bad already and giving it conditions makes it useless.
MFT:
It’s not original MFT it is nerfed by 33% from 3% to 2% and now it works while healthy/injured but only when not exhausted. We also have a lot more anti exhaustion perks now than at its release which counter it.
Bloodhound:
Without seeing pools of blood through walls it would remain bad. I have made the aura appear delayed by 1s which I think would make it fair, don’t you think? Or should the aura range be smaller?
Call of brine:
I don’t think they will ever make perks not stack and they will definitely not return it to 200%, both would be something behavior has never done before.
Merciless storm:
My idea was that it blocks gens for 10s if you fail one of three appearing skill checks. Those appear after you down someone but only before a gen has 90% progress. I would like it trigger by something else, ideas?
Post edited by Langweilg on0 -
Well it’s on the killer when deliverance happens in the endgame. It’s not unfair if the killer played bad until then. The perk also can have 0 effect.
The problem is that they don't see themselves playing bad. they see as the perk being unfair because it had an impact on the outcome on the match.
that is what all strong perk are. they're perk that impacted the match and consistently change results. Deliverance into base-kit BT into exit door escape is extremely obvious and very in your face value. You can have perk that silent and very difficult to spot and player might STILL complain because perceive perk gaining value. A great example was Made For This. I bet you over 90% of the player-base couldn't even notice a 3% haste bonus happening but people still complained every single time a survivor got minor value out of the perk because they made to a resource that they shouldn't have. So a perk does not need be showing its value directly for complaints.
Just any reward at all is complained about. Like just few weeks ago, someone was complaining that Lightweight is overpowered…. because some survivor got value out of Lightweight. when you have player-base that sensitive to any perk value, it is no wonder why every perk is balanced to be have the near worst possible starting balance values. Often, only the functionally strong perks survive in that type of balance environment because they usually end up being strong at base-kit for game related reasons.
0 -
Yeah it is a shame, but I blame Behavior for supporting this type of behavior.
0
