Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
The state of servers, ping, hit validation, and everything in between... and how to fix it!
First of all, PLEASE upvote this if you are even remotely impacted by the things I mention below, we need visibility on this issue! As a survivor, currently this game is unplayable. I will outline the problem and all straightforward solutions in this post. My perspective exists as a game developer myself, a person with a Master's in Computer Science, and an expert in game networking.
The problems(in order of importance):
- Very far apart servers
- No maximum personal ping bar
- Matchmaking is too relaxed with ping(100-150ms is considered acceptable despite 40-70ms alternatives)
- No animation validation(windows & pallets)
- No maximum cumulative ping bar(survivor+killer)
- Server load is easily maxed out at 5 players
- Server load is not well load balanced between locations(further exasperated by the large distances between them)
The (real and practical) solutions(in order of importance):
- For the US, enable Gamelift servers for California & Ohio, consider finding acceptable solutions for Quebec & Dallas. The infrastructure already exists within the service. There are other scattered servers worldwide that could use this pick me up, especially for Australian players.
- Add a maximum acceptable ping bar to the games settings
- Reimplement Pallet Validation and introduce vault validation. Vault Validation at the very simplest would calculate the difference in ping between the killer and survivor, and who has the advantage. If the survivor has the advantage, speed up or "skip" forward in the animation AT LEAST the amount of difference previously calculated for only the killer. The vault animation is the same for both the survivor and the server, but because it is a fixed length and is locked in upon start, at the earliest of when the killer would see the animation begin they will be communicated and "snapped to" exactly where the survivor is in the animation. At least, to the server, because their personal ping should not hurt the killer. If the killer has advantage, remain as is(high ping as a survivor SHOULD still be their problem). This looks and plays fair to both and is a very straightforward and simple solution. This will feel less brutal to killers when there are more options for controlling your server ping, as highlighted above.
- A slider for the max cumulative ping of you and the enemy(I,E survivor→killer, killer→ all survivors). When hits are fair for both, only then is this an appropriate solution. Currently it would be useless for killer as they always have the advantage the higher the ping.
- Increase server stability/headroom. I know this isn't a super easy issue to tackle and has been ongoing since the shift, but when all five players are alive and playing, the hits are absolutely affected "here and then" for both sides, favoring killer once again.
With these extremely straightforward, simple, relatively cheap, and easy changes this game would immediately grow and the community WOULD notice. With proper validation and fair hits you are solving many deep rooted problems as they no longer become effective such as: Region swapping, VPNing as killer, general toxicity, general frustration, lower disconnect rates and lower ban rates, and would increase satisfaction, playtime and money spent.
As a person with thousands of hours and years sank into both sides of this game, I personally will not be playing this game as a survivor again until more servers open near me, true fair hit detection exists, a ping bar is added, or any/all combination of this. I simply can not find enjoyment when the core aspect of the game is impossible, unachievable, inconsistent, and ruined.
Comments
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I will note it is a huge leap forward being able to now see the killers ping in game. Without first being forced to tank a hit and guess the killers ping, and instead being able to see it and allowed to predrop/prevault is extremely helpful. In extreme cases it even enables me to cut the loss of the march and leave the game/die early entirely(300+ ms cumulative between me and the killer).
As it sits this game gets exponentially harder and essentially impossible above 140-160ms of cumulative ping.
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It is also extremely important to mention just how big of an issue VPNing is for extremely competitive killers. Many medium/large streamers are purposefully making the game significantly easier for themselves by VPNing to other regions. This in many cases literally makes the game easier than installing cheats, with no downsides.
Unfortunately, with no validation as is currently it is literally impossible to survive against any killer with even a subpar skillset/build/killer. I firmly believe capping the maximum ping for killer to 200ms is an effective way to combat this, being just enough to allow people in remote areas to still play. This could theoretically be lowered even further with more accessible worldwide servers.0 -
Unfortunately, the server status is generally not in good condition. In addition, there is also no server side validation (in a pvp game for 7 years), which makes cheating in the game very easy, wall hacks are really common.
Since there is quite a lot of casual weed here, the issue is not yet a priority as revenue is generated elsewhere.
In summary, the gameplay and assets such as killer design, perks etc. are in a really good state, you have to give them credit for that. But servers and maintenance management are poor..2 -
I completely agree, however i think going after this and making changes is extremely within their interests.
There's a reason for example that large social media platforms have "For You" pages and that curate what you like, and every single tiny detail to feed you the media in the way that makes you stay on it longer. Specifically the aspect that it always knows more of what you want without telling you, or you even knowing it.
I think the incentive is extremely similar as keeping players happy by working on the back end and tweaking all those tiny "negligible", unnoticed, or small things is severely undervalued, and they would see significant growth in every area(player count, auric cell sales, word of mouth, reviews, merchandise, etc.) by implementing these things. Further, if they outlined an entire update around it(despite the overall minimal actual implementation) and had an "Operation Health" moment, It would bring attention back to the game for people who left for the very same reasons since the overall controversy of dedicated servers in 2019. If needed, they could also actually outline resources to it, and justify a gap in content for the sake of health. I am certain the community would generally be happier, despite initial "change is bad" reactions.1 -
I wish for everything you mentioned and agree with it, but it's like a dream.
The sad fact is, BHVR is just a company. Economic efficiency (and the resulting profit) comes first, everything else comes second.
The community really likes the content such as skins, playable characters and other things and spends a lot of money on it.
A health patch or the like makes the game better for the players but does not generate any directly visible revenue. As long as the number of players doesn't go down or the profitable part continues to do well, nothing will change.
The times when developers (game companies overall) really put their heart and soul into the project and really want to bring a well-polished product to the customer are over, with the exception of absolutely exceptional cases (Larian Studios).
This may be due, on the one hand, to the administration, as publishers these days have much more power to push various things like releases to satisfy shareholders, and, on the other hand, to the players themselves, who buy the new product every year (Call of Duty or Fifa XY ) which are overpriced and nothing significant has changed.
I'm going too far now, but the last season of GoT, for example, is a good example of what happens when publishers (HBO) don't wait for the final product from the creator (in this case George R. R. Martin, who hadn't finalized the book yet).
I really hope that something changes but these days it's enough if you do the bare minimum because the money still comes in (skins, DLCs, early access,...)
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The day their analytics show it can and will is the day we eat good! Operation Health for rainbow six siege brought in the most growth ever in and since the games history, and it truly kickstarted the game's community. As much as i hate to say it, if they embrace the niche community of comp DBD, and all the networking cleanup with it, things might get interesting fast. With UE5, they've only just overcome their limitations hopefully now we can get our operation Health. Who knows, maybe the changes enable a permanent competitive mode and they finally add it, because as much as people have begged for it for years, it's just not possible because of how clunky it is currently but it's so close! And thus, a community is born.
People who drop the game stop spending money. This game makes the most money from the "whales" who keep buying but we've lost a lot of whales along the way. Otzdarva documented his journey with this and he almost hung up the towel a year ago, the biggest DBD streamer, and it's worth a watch. I am no whale, but can't fathom spending another penny until we at least get a central/ohio/dallas server.1 -
Operation Health for rainbow six siege brought in the most growth ever in and since the games history, and it truly kickstarted the game's community
That's right, real DBD can only start when the biggest problems such as server ping, hit validation and cheating protection have been fixed. When the time comes, a good game will become a great one. However, I think it will be a long time coming, for the reasons mentioned. Sales can be actively and directly generated from new content “Killer, surv, perks”.
I am no whale, but can't fathom spending another penny until we at least get a central/ohio/dallas server.
For me it's the same. There is some nice content like skins (especially from some killers) that I think are very good and overall the design of new killers including the chase music are now at a very good level, BHVR is doing a great job here.
However, I will only spend money again when the most important problem for me personally "server management and validation + useful cheat protection" has been comprehensively revised and fixed.
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After playing today after the mid chapter patch, it seems there are more issues with this patch specifically. Ive noticed that US East servers must be entirely overloaded. It's redirecting players to Europe mostly. About 1/2 of my games are not actually on US East despite me having blocked all other server IP ranges. At full load, USE is acting as a proxy to redirect me places i can't possible be connected otherwise. 2/3rds of my games have killers also with 100-150+ ping also impacted by this issue leading to cumulative nearly 300+ ping lobbies. Double what i would consider the maximum to even be playable. Every single one of my post game chats, someone else on pc has noticed. So not only are servers used being squeezed every last drop out of them, there's not enough for a mid chapter update!
Really hoping this new killer ping bar brings light to these issues and shows there's more to come from BHVR!
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Bump
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I have been getting routed to EU pretty frequently as well (and I am NA West so that makes the game unplayable). The issue is, we suffer through and play it as it is and BHVR still makes money the way it is. They will not fix it as long as we suffer through. The only way we would bring light to how bad things are is to have a mass exodus at least when it comes to spending money on this game.
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Show the killer (and surv) pings in the lobby. Let them dodge if it's too crazy. I'd rather wait for 2 minutes longer than getting frustrated by ridicious looking hits
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They tried to stomp out queue dodging before with the prestige removal(and many other measures). I would really like this change for survivors, but I think it should still be locked up for killers or we will get even more killers now dodging low ping survivors and/or only playing lobbies they have high ping in. Leave it to the survivors to determine if the killer has too high of ping and if everyone leaves it reroutes and rerolls the killer lobby to (hopefully) another server!
It's worth noting that there are high level cheats that can accomplish this so it seems like it's at least accessible information to players on some level(via network packets or otherwise).0 -
It seems the server load and rerouting issue has been subsided. Likely by the decrease back to normal player count levels.
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the ping is definitely better but there is certainly something wonky with desync right now. Hits feel an extra 20% more BS
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One major issue there is with ping is when the killer is VPNing. That should not be allowed. My playgroup has gone against several killers from the European servers who VPN to appear as if they are on Eastern server. It's annoying. It should be a reportable offense.
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in NA like 10% of killers are definitely VPNing. Hard cap of at least 200ms should be the cutoff before just not being allowed to queue for killer. Obviously though, we need to be actually picking other servers that work best first
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Gotta say since the last update I've noticed various server issues. Dunno about evil no good killer mains using VPNs, but weird stuff like Dr's red stain on survivors not following them properly.
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