Give Eruption incapacitated back
The removal of incapacitated is still one of the most… baffling changes. You guys giga buffed eruption and then instead of slightly reverting the buff or reverting it flat out… you thought "Welp guess we gotta rework it!" ??????
The regression went from 6% to 10% and the incapacitated effect went from 16 seconds to 25 seconds. You buffed the incapacitated by nearly 10 SECONDS, and somehow reached the conclusion that removing incapacitated entirely was the solution? Even though no one bat an eye at eruption before the buffs?
Not only that but it got replaced by a useless aura reading that you can't even see 90% of the time because both survivor and gen auras… are red. They're the same exact color, you can't physically see the survivor.
Give the incapacitated effect back and put it down to it's original 16 seconds, or hell, god forbid if that's all of a sudden too much still (even though it wasn't the entire time it was at that value) make it 12 seconds.
Comments
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No.
Incapacitated is way too strong of an effect that should only be tied to killer powers. Having to just sit there, not even being able to open a chest or do a totem in the meantime is just straight up unfun and there is no argument against that.
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And again I repeat. This literally only became a problem when they increased the incapacitated timer, by nearly 10 SECONDS. Pre-buff eruption never had this problem. No one cared about 16 second incapacitated and I even suggested lower than that at 12 seconds. Something that would actually make the perk not entirely garbage unlike it's aura reading which you can't physically see 90% of the time.
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No, certainly not. I would prefer if Eruption was buffed with a new effect that wasn't the aura-reading, but it does not need to go back to Incapacitated.
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Eruption was always a badly designed perk even before they buffed it, its original version just didn't get enough use for it to get enough attention for them to change it. 16 seconds of being able to do basically nothing was boring and frustrating. 25 seconds just made it even worse.
Removing the incapacitated was the right decision and it shouldn't ever come back. It's still a solid perk even now, it's just not broken and horribly unfun to play against anymore.
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Certain things have no counters and are thus relegated to killer powers. Incapacitated stops the survivor from doing anything. Killer instinct shows the survivor's location even when in a locker. These effects are not used in perks for a reason.
There's an argument to be made for altering Eruption to be more useful, but not by bringing back Incapacitated.
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It's not even a solid perk anymore. Eruption is a detriment to use with the 3 gen changes that happened a while back and the aura reading does nothing.
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It was always a problem, its just the problem was brought to light when it got buffed.
There are plenty of instances of this happening, not just Eruption.
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it was 16 seconds before…. and barely anyone used the perk. to be fair, pop was 25% max progression but anyway. it is not too strong of an effect as long the duration is not too long.
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Aside from the obvious problem with this proposal, why are we even looking to buff Eruption? It's legitimately one of the last perks that needs to be buffed, minus removal of the cooldown as that serves literally no purpose, but to make the perk more annoying to use than necessary.
The reason nobody ran it prior to its mega buff was because there was absolutely no reason to when we had perks like -25% Pop, 45s DMS on every gen, -15% unlimited PR with a LNN, 200% Hex: Ruin, 200% Call of Brine, and many other stronger slowdown perks.
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I prefer actually being able to play the video game honestly
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If you get to the point where Eruption blocked a gen, that means you still got a minimum of 60% regression on it (5% from kick + 10% from Eruption, all times 4). The perk has done its job at that point.
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Incapacitated has no place as part of a killer perk. It's not something that should even be considered, regardless of the duration.
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in its og state when it only had 16 seconds of Incapacitated nobody complained about it so maybe if it didnt get the 25 seconds of Incapacitated buff in the 6.1 meta shake up, it wouldnt have to end up like this
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Gen regression perks in general need buffs. They're all terrible.
They've pretty much all been nerfed to uselessness. CoB is terrible, overcharge is terrible, jolt sucks on most of the maps, pop is nerfed back to it's useless -20%, pain res is a shadow of what it used to be, ruin has been terrible since they made it only 100%, etc etc.
Gen regression perks are god awful right now unless you stack like 3 of them on top of each other.
And you still would be because it wouldn't be 25 seconds long. You guys aren't going to be successful in this gaslight of trying to make people think that 16 second incapacitation was overpowered or annoying when no one cared about it prior to.
I also even suggested LOWERING that timer if god forbid it's that much of a problem even though it never was before.
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Yeah, gen regression perks sure are useless. That's why every killer is still bringing Pain Res and PGTW every match.
Silly hyperbole like that makes it hard to take this thread seriously.
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Please think slowly for 3 seconds.
People bring pain res and PGTW every match still because gen regression perks are still a requirement to consistently win and guess what… those are the 2 best perks available. That doesn't make gen regression perks good, that just makes those 2 the LEAST worst options.
I'll repeat: CoB is terrible, overcharge is terrible, jolt sucks on most of the maps, pop is nerfed back to it's useless -20%, pain res is a shadow of what it used to be, ruin has been terrible since they made it only 100%, etc etc.
People using the only options left is not an indication of those options still being strong. Regression perks will ALWAYS be used no matter the strength. Even if you believe in your heart of hearts that those 2 perks are amazing, which would be wrong on every level possible, that doesn't mean the rest of the gen regression options are good along with them?
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it was even considered a weak perk
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It was barely used because people didnt know its potential, thus it was never brought to light.
We've had situations like this in the past, such as the Flashlight/Double Locker trick which was in the game since day 1, yet only became an issue once it got more traction 7 years later.
Also its no fun standing around for 16 seconds not being able to do anything either.
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I already said you could make the incapacitation a shorter timer. I don't know why we keep bringing up the length of time as if that needs to hold it back. I've said 12 seconds, hell 10 seconds. Hell, EIGHT seconds would be better than even 15 second aura reading on this perk, because it is THAT useless of a feature.
And I don't want some even more useless addition like "oOOOOoooOOOOOo blindness OOooOOoo"
No one cared about even 16 second incapacitation not because of it being outshined but because it genuinely wasn't a problem. It only became a problem because it got BUFFED. That's not the same as the flashlight double locker example. One thing was something that got specifically buffed and became a problem directly after said buff, the other was something that was in the game for 7 years and just went unnoticed.
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This completely misses all of the context surrounding the 6.1.0 changes, and everything that happened around that time to make Eruption meta for so long.
Before 6.1.0, the killer mantra was "gens aren't worth kicking", because it was #1 importance to always be in chase at all times. Push out map pressure as hard as possible to win games, and even the 3 seconds it took to kick a gen was considered to be "wasted effort" and "not worth the time it took" to complete the break action, let alone walk to the gen. The only exception was Pop was worth it just after a hook, because you were on your way to the next chase anyway, which you could see because of BBQ.
Eruption was buffed 3 times over a couple months. The 6.1.0 patch buffed both the incapacitation duration (16s→25s) and the base hit went from I think 5% to 8% in that same patch. Not long after that, they also fixed a bug that meant that the gen would also continue to regress after the survivor was incapacitated. (Before this, it calculated the regression event, then saw the survivor was working the gen and stopped regression, then it incapacitated the survivor).
All of that was independent of the base kick speed increase, the base kick regression of 2.5% they added that patch, and the other buffs to synergy perks like Overcharge that also happened at the same time.
The biggest was the mindset shift from "gens aren't worth kicking" to "gens are the only thing that matters". Killers started dropping chases to go kick gens, make sure that every gen on the map was infected with Eruption, and even then would go kick them again just for good measure.
The damage to this game from that mindset shift alone is one we should never go back to. It took several rounds of perk nerfs, a killer rework, and a brand new base kit mechanic to finally get killers to stop holding games hostage for an hour to auto-win the match. We should never go back to that. And if you think that's a goal we should be looking to, I want you to consider if survivors had a perk that incapacitated the killer how frustrating and annoying that would be.
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Nobody cared about Eruption because both Pain Res and Pop were still mad OP.
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I will not read your post and give you a short and a dry “no”
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None of that has to do with incapacitation though. The problem was all of those buffs stacking on each other. Call of brine getting introduced, overcharge rework, eruption buff, unlimited pain res, faster gen kick, base gen percentage, etc etc.
The REAL problem with 3 genning started when they introduced killers like knight and SM who specialized in camping areas and holding those 3 gens. 3 genning was a problem but only became this massive epidemic because of those 2 killers who guaranteed it.
But again I already suggested. Make it so you cap how many regression perks can be used or make it so regression perks get weaker depending how many you use. Making every regression perk borderline useless WITHOUT stacking is not the solution and it's what got us to this point where killers don't have enough regression options so they just default to the 2 least worst options, in pain res and PGTW. PGTW is getting used even though it's objectively weak.
The last time PGTW was 20%, it got buffed… BECAUSE IT WAS WEAK. Reverting it to that same 20%, only now later down the line, doesn't change that fact. Every regression perk not named pain res is flat out bad.
Nobody cared about eruption because it wasn't a problem. Not because it was getting outshined. It wasn't a problem even during it's time before pain res got added.
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Well I don't much care for people who aren't open to discussion or other opinions so you have fun with that.
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just make it 5-10 seconds and its balanced
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Here to reiterate that Incapacitated and Killer Instinct should only ever be used for killer powers and not perks.
If you want Eruption to stop survivors repairing for a while, have it block the gen instead.
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I don't see how that's any different but if you prefer gen blocking then sure. I'll gladly take that.
Although like I said, I'll gladly take even an 8-10 second incapacitation over aura reading.
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not true. people knew its potencial from doing adept nemesis but the issue was that pop goes weasel was so superior in every way that there was no reason to use it. pain res+pop+ruin dominated the meta so hard and than 4th perk was usually Tinkerer or BBQ because of BP.
I wasn't using the perk at the time because of 45 second dead man switch with unlimited uses. i was just walking around maps as killer and seeing gen's block. it was glorious.
the removal of incap was survivors crying so hard about the perk that it got nuked. Like the funny part was that the perk was EVEN WORSE then current version where dev also made it 10% CURRENT progression. that was original proposed change. survivors cried so hard that they nuked the perk out of orbit.
now OP is asking to revert little more of the perk so the perk is less nuked out of orbit. even 5 second of incap. i'll take it.
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totally fair points. I still think old ruin undying meta was a lot simpler eruption became only a problem after that patch yeah but if they didnt shift the regression meta like that it would have stayed as it was
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Yes, did you read the post I was replying to?
That person was saying that "option wasn't a problem before 6.1.0". And it wasn't an issue because it was rare, and the community mentality was completely different.
Many of the problems surrounding Eruption are still there, including killer obsession with regression, and incapacitation should never be added to another perk ever again.
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More hyperbole, but now I'm curious, what would you consider a strong gen regression perk?
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It's not hyperbole. It's fact. Hyperbole would be saying omg every single killer perk in the game is abysmal and unusable. The gen perks being bad, is a FACT. They've been nerfed constantly, every single one of them.
And to answer your question… none. There are no "strong" regression perks, every regression perk in the game right now is objectively weaker than previous iterations. Outside of like… oppression but even then, that's based off just the cooldown change and it's still not all that great.
People are still only using pain res and PTGW because it's the 2 least worst options. They are not good, they are just the best available choices. Regression perks will always be used regardless if they suck or not because it is a borderline requirement to be able to win even semi-consistently.
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Extreme hyperbole.
I guess your idea of a strong gen regression perk is -50% on every gen kick.
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Eruption back with its incapacitated, paired with BBQ, star struck and Friends till the end - yeah no thanks. I can just see the meta misery now.
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Im not saying the perk was the strongest in slot, im saying it was problematic and unhealthy. Which is what the buff brought to light.
Incapacitated is just a really unfun thing to go against, you quite literally just sit there being unable to do anything. Should be exclusive to powers and thats it.4 -
It's not hyperbole and no that isn't my idea of a strong perk jesus christ.
Dude, think. This is the OBJECTIVE TRUTH. Every gen regression perk is WEAKER than past iterations. Every single one. CoB is useless unless you multi stack it. Overcharge is useless unless you multi stack it. Eruption is meh at best, unless you multi stack it. Jolt is useless on most maps. Ruin is useless. Pop is bad. Pain res is the only one holding up and the only one that can see consistent value without the need to stack it with other gen regress perks.
This isn't hyperbole. It's the truth. These perks have been nerfed constantly. No one is saying we need them to be 3 gen levels of strength. I'm saying find a middle ground, or MAKE them 3 gen level strength but then implement a system where you are either capped on how many gen perks you can run or make it so that the more gen regress perks you use, the weaker they become.
"3 genning" regression perks got nerfed because of their 3 gen capabilities. 3 genning has been physically PATCHED out of the game. There's no reason for those perks to still be useless. You can keep saying hyperbole, like you just learned what it means yesterday, and being disingenuous to the conversation that doesn't change the facts.
Gen regress perks are weak. People still using them out of necessity is not an indication of them being good.
Except far as I know, no powers even apply incapacitated? Outside of carrying a flame turret against alien and an addon for huntress.
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Eruption having a 8-10 second incapacitation would not be some hard meta perk, and if it was it would be because everything else sucks. The same way pop is right now. Pop sucks, but because everything else sucks more, it still sees play.
Hell make the regress on it 8% for all I care, anything to give it a useful aspect that isn't an aura reading you can't physically see. Or hell, don't make it an incapacitation affect but a gen blocker.
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Twins, they introduced Incapacitated.
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No thank you. People would literally stop playing again. Try using any of the other 283758013 regression perks. Better yet, try auras! They're free wins right now in pubs.
It also baffles me you're baffled players dislike being unable to much of anything. Incapacitate is one of the worst things since haste and gen rush/regression. All of these things need to just bounce from DBD imo. Its why all the balance issues arise.
It just feels like one side always wants the other side to just.. like… stand there. Do nothing. Let me hit you. Let me do this gen in peace.
In short, Eruption is still great as is. Just like Distortion is still great. Adrenaline is still great. Dead har- actually yeah, that one is still great lol
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Disagreed. It got overlooked hard. Just like Coup de Grace is now. Before Eruption's buff killers could trade hooks all game with Pain Res and they got 25% flat regression from Pop which was a lot more appealling and far easier to use at the time. No one really experienced it to complain about it which would have been reasonable by the way. The only ones I saw bringing it were adept Nemys. Incapacitated is stupid status effect and should be reserved for very special cases if used at all - Eruption should not be one of those.
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No, that felt terrible to play against. What made it so extremely annoying is that eruption activates on down, not hook, so unless you're in a SWF, you had no way of telling when you would get incapacitated and it was just painful and unfun and felt very unfair. Current Eruption is a perfectly good slowdown perk and gives some info on top, it doesn't need changes.
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no? Eruption with Incapacitated status effect was the most bs and unhealthy perk in the whole game during it's peak
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There's no use using any of the other 28988434 regression perks when only 1 of them is good…
Yea during it's peak… after it got omega buffed? That isn't an incapacitation problem.
It doesn't give ANY info, you can't physically see the aura reading 90% of the time lmfao. If survivor auras and gen auras were different colors I would absolutely agree, but they are the same colors.
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Just to clarify, there are 283,758,013 regression perks, not 28,988,434 as you have stated. You're short quite a bit. :P
But to the bizznas. You saying only 1 is good is your opinion. The biggest regression perk I see doing the most work in games is surge/jolt (Whatever you wanna call it), and by itself its pretty damn good if you're getting downs consistently. Which isn't difficult atm since killers have just about everything they could want to dominate.
Pair that with Pain res and you have plenty. Eruption is cool, and useful atm. But incapacitate is an unhealthy mechanic and should be locked in the tomb of failed BHVR ideas like the Skerchant. In fact, I'd say buff eruption all you want, but without incapacitate. You won't convert anyone on this idea.
It doesn't give ANY info, you can't physically see the aura reading 90% of the time lmfao. If survivor auras and gen auras were different colors I would absolutely agree, but they are the same colors.
If you know they don't have aura hiding (which they don't now.), then you know they're in a locker or behind a gen. Thats a lot of narrowing down. And if they ARE doing the locker thing, they're not on gens.
That said.. BHVR, please make gen and player aura's different colors. It really doesn't make sense to me.
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I don't see it as opinion because 90% of the gen perks either than oppression and jolt are flat out objectively in the worst state they've ever been in. They are all hard nerfed.
And like I said with jolt, the problem with jolt is that it's useless on M2 killers and useless on most maps. Survivors once they figure out you have jolt can lead you away from the gens. And if the map is big enough they won't have to do much work to pull that off.
Eruption is better than jolt honestly I would've started with that. Then you gotta go down the list of the rest of them. CoB is terrible after it got nerfed from the 3 gen meta, even though 3 genning isn't physically possible. Overcharge straight up does LESS regression than the base regression speed until after like what… 10 seconds? It's a detriment. Pop got put back down to it's garbage 20% that was KNOWN to be garbage hence why it got buffed up to 30% in the first place. Ruin has been completely dead and gone since they made it 100%. Oppression although buffed, doesn't actually do any meaningful regression amount and the skill check rarely catches people. Undone COULD be great but they put it behind the single worst caveat possible, that being survivors missing skill checks, which is just something that rarely happens
Most of the gen regression perks suck.
"If you know they don't have aura hiding (which they don't now.), then you know they're in a locker or behind a gen. Thats a lot of narrowing down. And if they ARE doing the locker thing, they're not on gens."
The problem is that if you erupt multiple gens, you won't know which gen they are on because of the aura.
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You're right and you should say it.
Reduce the incapacitated effect to 16, 12 or even 10 seconds, but it was mostly fine before the 6.1 update and only underappreciated due to other regression effects being even more broken
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I don't see it as opinion because 90% of the gen perks either than oppression and jolt are flat out objectively in the worst state they've ever been in. They are all hard nerfed.
Of course you dont see it as opinion. Its your belief. But it is still an opinion. But Im not going to stay on that, its moot.
Hard nerfed I agree with. Still very usable at their job. I say this after reading your response and talking to a few people who main killer, with hard regression builds primarily. Ya know, you sweaty, I wanna win over having fun types. (Nothing wrong with these types, just giving an idea of the people I talked to).
Pain res and Pop are still giving the most value from what I've garnered.When asked about eruption, they talked about how its been nerfed hard, and without the incapacitate, its not worth using compared to most other regression perks.
I wish I had more experience with these perks on killer, but I've never ran regression. I will defer to your view on eruption however, for the sake of the talking points.
And like I said with jolt, the problem with jolt is that it's useless on M2 killers and useless on most maps. Survivors once they figure out you have jolt can lead you away from the gens. And if the map is big enough they won't have to do much work to pull that off.
We try to lead you away anyway. Its a natural tactic to keep killers away from gens. The map issue is very prevalent. Ill definitely give you that lol.
Most of the gen regression perks suck.
Yeah… Makes me wonder why killers keep trying these builds instead of experimenting and trying other things. Is running the same type of build over and over really something you find worthwhile? Its almost like BHVR wants regression to to shift to a backseat a bit. I digress, its not the topic. Apologies.
"If you know they don't have aura hiding (which they don't now.), then you know they're in a locker or behind a gen. Thats a lot of narrowing down. And if they ARE doing the locker thing, they're not on gens."
The problem is that if you erupt multiple gens, you won't know which gen they are on because of the aura.
I dont see multiple gens being erupted a bad thing… at all. Your reasoning here is so confusing to me. Your killer lens is just something I dont understand I suppose. The aura is a side effect and honestly, you could cut it and eruption is still fine.
In closing, Incapacitate is my only issue with it. Buff Eruption all you want. 50% regression on eruption is fine as long as its without incapacitate.
You're right and you should say it.
Reduce the incapacitated effect to 16, 12 or even 10 seconds, but it was mostly fine before the 6.1 update and only underappreciated due to other regression effects being even more broken
You're right and you should say it.
Reduce the incapacitated effect to 0 seconds, but it was
mostly(mostly means not 100%, so it was not fine.) fine before the 6.1 update and only underappreciated due to other regression effects being even more broken.Fixed. You ask any survivor and incapacitate was the only problem with it. Just like MFT 3%, just like Distortion and token regen.
Its all the same talk, just different sides trying to get their way with unhealthy perk effects. Incapacitate is 100% unhealthy. Until you can overcome that single point, there is no reason for it to come back.
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Holy moly I'm being accused of killer-sided bias! [The bad place] truly has frozen over!
I'm saying this as someone who mostly played survivor in 5.x.x patches - Eruption did not feel oppressive at all prior to 6.1. I leave some room for doubt just because I think it was so overshadowed by other regression, that its infrequency led to it not feeling as bad, but I think 6.1 colored peoples opinions.
I do somewhat agree that being unable to do anything else feels extra crummy, maybe if you're super nervous about that, create a new status effect that only applies to gens, but I see no reason Eruption shouldn't prevent survivors from doing gens for a handful of seconds at the least
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I'll work with you here. The new effect sounds pretty good. If the incapacitated only affected gens, put it to 20/30/40 seconds. Literally solves the issue with not being able to do gens, healing team, totems, sabo, or any item we may have. It prompted a lot of players in my experience to take the locker hide option. And thats just a boring effect a video game shouldn't be instilling.
So, 30 second no gen work effect instead of the list. Thoughts? Genuinely curious since you think I accused you of any role. That's just your perceived measure, but I apologize regardless. I'll try to be less accusatory.
Edit:
Its all the same talk, just different sides trying to get their way with unhealthy perk effects. Incapacitate is 100% unhealthy. Until you can overcome that single point, there is no reason for it to come back.
I see. My apologies. It is quite accusatory lol
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Yeah that seems fair enough. 30 seconds seems very punishing for people who were solo/healthy on a gen and might not have anything else to do, but that's a "might be" and not unreasonably so. If they rework it I think that's a good starting value and they tweak it from there.
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