Dracula has too much going for him

TheDavidKingMain
TheDavidKingMain Member Posts: 48
edited October 2024 in General Discussions

His kit just has no downsides. He can play essentially any tile with vampire/wolf. Hellfire has INSANE zoning, better than even Pyramid Head, and a ridiculously short (almost nonexistent) cooldown.

And then there’s bat form… where do I even start. The fact that you can get a free hit with drac’s already amazing chase, switch to bat INSTANTLY and render any distance a survivor has gained to nothing, then again INSTANTLY switch back to an oppressive chase power is just ridiculous.

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Comments

  • Nun_So_Vile
    Nun_So_Vile Member Posts: 2,501
    edited October 2024

    PH has the better zoning ability with his ability and can be spammed multiple times at the same loop because the cooldown is 2.25 seconds. Hellfire is a 7second CD for the attack, far from "almost nonexistent." Quite the opposite actually it's one of the longer CDs for an ability compared to most of the roster who have shorter CDs. PoTD also doesn't slow you down to a absolute crawl to use it like hellfire does, and its a wider attack. Hellfire is not better than PH's PoTD.

    The reason Dracula is able to take you down is because this…I see so many survs who cannot path. They avoid 50/50s, pass up close pallets/windows, and run into open areas that make it easy for him to follow-up. You wouldn't run into an open area with a killer like Spirit or Singu on your back would you? That's like the easist survs to take down. Same with Dracula, if you don't put some objects between you or at the very least play the pallet while he is in bat form he'll down you.

    Also where are these free hits Dracula gets? Is there a sale on hits going on somewhere? How do I find this free hit sale?? I could certainly use some free hits, it'd be a lot less annoying than having to earn them currently.

    Post edited by Nun_So_Vile on
  • Aceislife
    Aceislife Member Posts: 473
    edited October 2024

    Nvm

  • Lunareclipse_20
    Lunareclipse_20 Member Posts: 7

    I know you edited this but ill explain anyway:

    1. Phase moves much faster than Bat form. Even without add ons Spirit catches up way faster.
    2. Bat form is visible to survivors while Spirit Phase is not and instead survivors have to guess her loction based entirely on sound
    3. (The big reason) Spirit can M1 straight out of her phase while Dracula has to switch to a different form which carries a lot of downtime to it. (Spirit can create 50/50 scenarios while Dracula cannot.)
  • GlamourousLeviathan
    GlamourousLeviathan Member Posts: 1,180

    He is actually a very okay killer. His wolf form is useless. 99% of the time you are better off using vampire form rather than wolf form. The thing is that the vampire form isn't that crazy either, it is just slightly better Nemesis. The bats are solid though.

  • CrossTheSholf
    CrossTheSholf Member Posts: 328

    Hes fine

  • solarjin1
    solarjin1 Member Posts: 2,367

    He better at cutting you off mid chase with teleporting than the dredge. All the bat addons are very strong. i don't think he op but i can see why players feel overwhelmed. So many things to watch out for vs one killer

  • cluelessclaudette
    cluelessclaudette Member Posts: 67

    BHVR needs money and OP Killers SELL SELL SELL!

  • emilyoberlin
    emilyoberlin Member Posts: 10

    normalize making killers unique but more punishing!!

  • albertoplus
    albertoplus Member Posts: 431

    Dracula should not get touched unless they first buff Wolf form.

  • Lunareclipse_20
    Lunareclipse_20 Member Posts: 7

    I dont even think Vampire form is better than Nemesis. The only thng it has going for it is that it has more range than Nemesis Tentacle Strike. Hellfire cooldowns are MUCH more punishing. Nemesis cooldown is limited to his recovery time which is lower than Hellfires (and he moves much faster while in recovery too) and his charge time, also faster than Hellfires. Hellfire has a harsh 7 second cooldown. Also in tier 3 Nemesis moves faster than Dracula while charging his power. Theres also the part that Nemesis can drag his hitbox around making his M2 much more deadly in chase. Overall this makes Tentacle Strike a lot better than Hellfire, though due to his other forms (mainly Bat form) Dracula is as a whole much stronger.

  • Lunareclipse_20
    Lunareclipse_20 Member Posts: 7
    edited October 2024

    I dont think they have dropped a single killer in an 'OP' state in years. We've certainly had killers released in very strong states, like Chucky, but, even he is a much stronger killer now than he was on release, no where near 'OP'. I definitely dont think BHVR needs money because they have a paid for game that has NUMEROUS paid LICENSED DLCs that all have a large amount of paid for cosmetics that also has a very large and notable dedicated player base across multiple platforms. Youre a tad delusuional if you think they 'need money'.

  • NomiNomad
    NomiNomad Member Posts: 3,181

    I think the only overtuned thing about his is Bat. The transform time going down made him feel so good to play, but his catchup game is ridiculous. Hellfire is fine imo, as if wolf. I'd prefer a happy medium between his old transform time and the current, but it'd probably be fine just reverting his transform time into and out of bat. Transform time being quick between wolf and vampire is fine imo.

  • PreorderBonus
    PreorderBonus Member Posts: 347

    I would strongly advise you to play a few matches as him, it's easy to think a killer is OP until you actually try them

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,914

    I just leave it here:

    Blink — Screech — Hit — Blink — Screech — Down.

    What's with the Dracula again? :)

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 1,393

    Even though I like how rapid you can go from a teleport to transform out of bat into a hit (for generators near a vault), that aspect could definitely be tweaked down.

    Though a lot of survivors are greedy with pallets IMO: Pre-drop it so you're not in an animlock that's in-place with the drop animation, instead forcing a 50/50 with Dracula needing to predict if you're going to move across the pallet or continue around a side, and if the later, then you can try to juke (though hellfire propagation speed could possibly be lowered).

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 1,352

    Drac does have a lot going on I admit...and yet I'd still rather play Pyramid Head with the new Zanshin Tactics.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,513

    yes it does. it showcases a stronger killer in the game left untouched. why does dracula need to be brought down to freddy level or even take a community average level of Demogorgon. Can we not have actual strong killers?

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,784

    Iirc wolf form has normal pallet breaking speed the animation is just front loaded aka you break the pallet instantly then stands there for 2.7s

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 11,763
    edited October 2024

    I agree, friend.

    It is such a shame that Dracula's power is this poorly designed, because his music is good and the castle is a nice touch.

  • Tehehehe, bet I can guess what killer you happened to lose to 10min before you posted this.

  • THE_Crazy_Hyena
    THE_Crazy_Hyena Member Posts: 376
    edited October 2024

    I think you must have misread my post about him, but he really is overtuned in the current form, and has too much going for him.
    I suggested toning down the worst offenders in his kit, notably the short recovery time on both Hellfire and Wolf form, as well as his strongest add-on. And of course the bat form, which is his strongest tool.

    Once those are dealt with, I am sure he will be in a much fairer spot.
    And yes, before you complain or try to argue, I have played a fair share of games both as him, and against him.

    In short: He is much too easy to secure downs with.

  • albertoplus
    albertoplus Member Posts: 431

    Im actually kinda amazed on seeing people saying that Wolf form is "good" or even "strong" and sometimes asking to nerf it.

    Wolf form is bad. The tracking it has most of the time is useless as only works when you are in chase and you dont need it (mind you, this form was marketed as the "tracking tool" Dracula has) and the Pounce is extremely hard to aim and easy to miss and dodge. And for some reason, if you manage to break a pallet with it (and not getting stunned first), his pallet break animation is one of the longest in the entire game, rivaling with the normal break animation.

    Bat form is good but it also did need the buffs. Before touching Dracula, first Wolf foorm needs buffs or adjustments.

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,784

    Well that would be true of any power that can close distances and break pallets or if you perfectly respect the pallet

  • Choaron
    Choaron Member Posts: 418
    edited October 2024

    Maybe but there definitely is several more urgent killer kits to look upon first. Going against even competent Dracs can sometimes be fun and interesting. Going against decent Nurses, Chuckies, Xenos etc… never is.

  • cluelessclaudette
    cluelessclaudette Member Posts: 67
    edited October 2024

    I'm delusional thinking that BHVR, a company, wants to make profits?

    What? Yeah, thanks for reminding why I should avoid going on these forums.

  • Zakon05
    Zakon05 Member Posts: 258

    Wolf form is fine. It's got a lot of great applications in chase. I have no problem landing the pounce unless I'm going for super risky ones. It's great for chasing survivors trying to hold W in chase who haven't been injured yet, since healthy survivors are difficult for the bat form to follow. The tracking is great at any tile with a window that you can't hit over with Hellfire, since you get killer instinct when a survivor vaults that lets you know what direction they're running. The boosted speed from the scent orbs can pressure survivors to drop the pallet earlier than they want.

    The reason breaking the pallet is a bit slower than other killers who can break pallets with their power is because it's just one of Dracula's powers.

    Vampire form is also fine.

    The only problem with Dracula is the random buff they gave his transformation cooldown. He felt great and fluid to play at 5 seconds. At 2.5 you can hit a survivor and then bat form back on top of them immediately, it's stupid.

  • albertoplus
    albertoplus Member Posts: 431

    Wolf form is fine. It's got a lot of great applications in chase. I have no problem landing the pounce unless I'm going for super risky ones. It's great for chasing survivors trying to hold W in chase who haven't been injured yet, since healthy survivors are difficult for the bat form to follow. The tracking is great at any tile with a window that you can't hit over with Hellfire, since you get killer instinct when a survivor vaults that lets you know what direction they're running. The boosted speed from the scent orbs can pressure survivors to drop the pallet earlier than they want.

    Im sorry but the Wolf form is far from fine.

    If the survivor is holding W, even if its not injured, Bat form is still miles better. You can clearly hear footsteps and see scratch marks, ofc the survivor can try to juke you but you can also catch it much better and faster than the Wolf form. The killer instinct its too short of a duration and most of the time you have clear view of the window and you already see the direction the survivor is running into. The boosted orbs are the only thing that can maybe help you in certain tiles that you are not able to use Hellfire well. Also, if you are hitting most pounces i would say the survivors are not playing very well. The times where Pounce are most likely to hit its if you are in a narrow hallway or if the survivor is just not looking behind them and going in straight line.

    Again, Wolf form was marketed as the "tracking tool" and the track is only worth in chase where most of the time you know where the survivor is.

    And also i still dont see a reason why it breaks pallets THAT slow when by doing that you are also putting yourself in a position to be stunned instead.

    Vampire form is also fine.

    On this i agree. Vampire form is mostly fine i think.

    The only problem with Dracula is the random buff they gave his transformation cooldown. He felt great and fluid to play at 5 seconds. At 2.5 you can hit a survivor and then bat form back on top of them immediately, it's stupid.

    5 seconds never felt great and fluid. If i did transform into Bat to quickly teleport into a window, when i did reach it i still did need to wait more seconds to not even see the survivors until i could transform. Transforming sometimes was more of a burden than a good thing.

    Now i can fully utilize shapeshift depending on the situation. Maybe at the end 2.5 seconds is too short? Maybe, but 5 was far too long, and i even say that 4 seconds would also be too long.

  • Zakon05
    Zakon05 Member Posts: 258
    edited October 2024

    Wolf form is fine insofar as it's one of 3 different powers Dracula has.

    The lunge is really not that hard to hit with on keyboard + mouse if you have good reflexes. Once you get a feel for how far the initial dash goes, you can also do things like lunge forward as the survivor is rounding a corner, pivot, and then lunge into them for a hit.

    Wolf form is great for tracking, you can see scent orbs from pretty long distances and it would be the best form for chasing survivors over open ground if they hadn't unnecessarily buffed his transformation cooldown.

    You can tell what direction survivors run after they vault a window, but not if they kept moving. They could stop moving after breaking LoS and try to mindgame. With wolf form you know if they're just committing to a direction or not.

    I think it's a bit iffy for you to be saying that I'm playing against bad survivors, when the ones you're playing against continue to keep running while healthy after you've shifted into bat form, instead of immediately walking and trying to hide to throw you off. It's impossible to hear breathing in bat form over all the screeching. It's not impossible to figure out where they went, but I could just use wolf form and the scent orbs for a similar effect, considering I haven't hit them yet and they aren't speeding off from being hit.

    As for the part about bat form, what you're describing is the reason why bat form didn't use to be overpowered. Survivors should have counterplay against you. Now it is overpowered with the 2.5 second cooldown since they don't have counterplay. You just show up in the window and insta-shift back. It's basically a THIRD chase power now, it should only be for moving around the map.

  • albertoplus
    albertoplus Member Posts: 431

    The lunge is really not that hard to hit with on keyboard + mouse if you have good reflexes. Once you get a feel for how far the initial dash goes, you can also do things like lunge forward as the survivor is rounding a corner, pivot, and then lunge into them for a hit.

    Reflexes has not much to do with the tiny amount of time you have to aim. There is no prediction or trying to bait the survivor to go in a direction so you catch him there. You pounce and go randomly on one of the other directions the survivor can go (or just try to hit him without changing directions) and hope you hit him. On most other cases, Hellfire is far more reliable than the pounce.

    Wolf form is great for tracking, you can see scent orbs from pretty long distances and it would be the best form for chasing survivors over open ground if they hadn't unnecessarily buffed his transformation cooldown.

    Orbs have literally 12 meters basekit aura. Thats extremely short, i wouldnt call that "pretty long distance", not even just "long distance". Also, really… If in the open field you hit a Pounce is mostly the survivors fault, as they have literally every direction to go to dodge it.

    You can tell what direction survivors run after they vault a window, but not if they kept moving. They could stop moving after breaking LoS and try to mindgame. With wolf form you know if they're just committing to a direction or not.

    The killer instinct only have 2 pulses basekit. You lose the first one while he jumps and if the survivor moves to break LoS then the second one is lost there. Even with the two pulses, the survivor can stop after the second one and try to mindgame.

    I think it's a bit iffy for you to be saying that I'm playing against bad survivors, when the ones you're playing against continue to keep running while healthy after you've shifted into bat form, instead of immediately walking and trying to hide to throw you off. It's impossible to hear breathing in bat form over all the screeching. It's not impossible to figure out where they went, but I could just use wolf form and the scent orbs for a similar effect, considering I haven't hit them yet and they aren't speeding off from being hit.

    Sometimes survivors keep running, sometimes they walk, sometimes they vault a window fast and sometimes they do a slow vault trying to mindgame. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt, it depends if i am aware and try to catch them by shifting into another form. And even with that its still miles better than the wolf form and his 4.6m (or 4.8m/s) movement speed while the bat has a perma 6.5m. You can reach them with bat, get baited and go after them again and it will still be faster than chasing them with wolf.

    As for the part about bat form, what you're describing is the reason why bat form didn't use to be overpowered. Survivors should have counterplay against you. Now it is overpowered with the 2.5 second cooldown since they don't have counterplay. You just show up in the window and insta-shift back. It's basically a THIRD chase power now, it should only be for moving around the map.

    Kinda weird that you mentioned before survivors trying to outplay the bat form but here you dont mention it. Survivor can try to bait you by doing quick and slow vaults, or vault then move slowly. In pallets its worse because the survivor can just stand in one side if the pallet is dropped already and if you transform he can just jump over the pallet and you cannot hit him.

    Sorry for all the quotes i did to your post but sometimes i like to discuss about Dracula. Dracula is strong, sure. But the Bat form did need the buffs it got and Wolf is still bad.

  • Zakon05
    Zakon05 Member Posts: 258

    The thing is from what I'm reading is just a list of reasons wolf form is fine. It's only 1/3 of Dracula's kit, it should be a little bit weaker than other killers with similar powers like Demogorgon and Wesker. I'm not even convinced it's worse than Demogorgon's shred in any way other than Demo can zone a bit easier.

    I use wolf form frequently and I can't remember the last time I lost a match I didn't intentionally throw because the survivors wanted to pet the doggo, I get use out of it every single game.

    It sounds like you just want it to be overpowered like bat form currently is, and anything short of that is too weak.

    Also when it comes to trying to use bat form to play around windows/pallets mid-chase, I wasn't even talking about that. I was talking about doing things like shifting bat form → teleporting to a gen you know survivors are working on → shifting back instantly. Or using bat form to teleport to a strong window the survivor is running to in order to cut them off and force them away from it. The fact you can also sometimes use it to play around windows and pallets which are actively being used as part of a chase in a tile is just extra ridiculous.

  • CrossTheSholf
    CrossTheSholf Member Posts: 328

    Dracula is fine