I just went against a Knocked out deerstalker game and I'm pretty surprised

I only use the slug build as ghostie for fun, once I get everyone down I just dance around a little then let everybody get up and leave, only really do this if I've reached iridescent 1. If someone uses it genuinely though it is quite annoying to go against but I can't really blame content creators though as they need to come up with things.

The main problem is that most players prioritize fully heal before picking their teammates up. I remember a game during the 2v8 event where I practically had to pick everyone up by myself, because they stopped to heal in groups of two and the game never progressed. As soon as you notice that someone has been lying on the ground for a considerable time, you should move to pick them up immediately or slugging is going to be difficult to control.

You cant Plot Twist a slugger, you have to down your self for it.

One Boon: Exponention is enough to counter it. Like I said if some survivors bring the usual perks in a match even then it's no big deal. Of course there are different factors, like u said, a dracula has more slug potential than a bubber. Also the map can make it easier or harder. A Exponention on Midwich is stronger than on Swamp. It's just a question of how meta slugging is or will be. If it is turning into the new big meta, people will naturally adjust, expect and counter it. Especially since Survivors have a lot of tools to counter it.

Then what's the main topic here? That slugging is not fun? Then my comment still stands that we have counters. If it's about viability: Still the same.

And the slugging Killer will adapt too: Slot Shattered Hope to destroy the Boon Totem completely.

People will adapt to the current meta strategies, but the question is if those meta strategies are any fun to engage with in the first place.

The core of the problem is that a slugged survivor has zero chance of being picked up on their own.

(though I suppose technically that the real core is that dying survivors can't help each other up, though if they could, then there's a question on if the survivors mobility penalty while in the dying state still allows the killer too much time-efficiency should slugging two or more survivors at a time ever become common).

This allows the Killer to skip the pickup/hook step, increase their time-efficiency, and get survivors into a state where none are able to help one another recover (thus all being setup to die), all while retaining the time-efficiency of skipping all pickup steps.

Adding incentives to get the killer to pick them up and hook them instead are band-aids.

To be frank, slugging isn't fun as Killer for me. And I'd assume most others too, especially those with any empathy, or simply pride in being "better than you" that you didn't even need to do it. Slugouts are really only done by those trying to prove a point, or are just mean-spirited.

I remember way back when when I introduced the game to my brother for the first time, we had a Myers that wasn't super good at the game, but once we were the last two, Myers ended up slugging me and him out over the course of like ten minutes as both of us were able to pick each other up, and he couldn't down both of us at the same time or find the other while the person he downed was recovering (and he didn't try to camp a slugged survivor either). But we neither had a key for the hatch (as it could be opened with one at the time), and working on generators while one of us was in the dying state would mean a death sentence if they were caught off guard and downed while the other was still in the dying state.

Gurly it's not me not wanting to hear or talk about it, it's you who is not happy if someone actually bring arguments to the table. Like if all you want to hear is "Yes, omg slugging is not fun." then talk to your friends about it. I am not saying that everyone should like being slugged or that it's not valid to be unhappy about it. But your post never had that topic to begin with, so maybe make it more clear.

I am not saying that it's wrong to feel a certain way about it and I totally agree that it's not fun. But all I can say right now is that we have enough counter potential to minimize this aspect. Heck, No Mither is the anti-slug perk.

It's an unsolvable problem, which is currently not so prevailent in the grand scheme of things. It happens more to some than others. For me, it's extremely rare, but does happen (had it happen once today).

It's unsolvable, because it doesn't matter what incentives Killers get for not slugging, there will always be some players who will slug regardless. Even if those players had the most powerful version of each gen-related perk available, it only takes some pressure, a perceived BM by a Survivor, or something else for them to slug again.

Whichever side somebody is on, be it Killer or Survivor, if there is a way to make the other side unenjoyable, then there will always be some who will do it. Perceived unfairness - gen speeds, healing nerfs, whatever - will always only be excuses to do these things. Even if it's fixed, there will be another excuse.

It's still not common in the grand scheme of things. It'll be when idiot influencers start promoting it in more detail that will be the problem. Maybe they'll recommend it as a tactic. Maybe they'll do it under the guise of pointing out a problem, when it's just for their views. People ultimately have a choice. It's been proven time and time and time again playing for slugging isn't needed for Killers to win, and it says more about the players skill than anything else.

If ever it becomes too common (and I hope it won't) the only option is basekit Unbreakable. It's a poor response, but there is no reasoning in this. The best thing is to just have some empathy and actually understand the pretty clear difference between being honour and just being a dick.

Once a Survivor has recovered to the point they need to seek help, they can either wait for another survivor, or seek to prostrate themselves before the entity: Underneath a Hook, survivors can recover fully, but become Broken until they next enter the dying state.

• Removes the possibility of survivors leveraging hook distance for free self-pickups, as they'd need to be under hook
• Adds additional time to the self-pickup by necessitating the Survivor must be under a Hook, which they would likely need to crawl to
• In the case of multiple slugged survivors, one can perform this self-pickup, then try to recover the other survivors
• Survivors as disincentivized from leveraging this over healing a dying survivor due to the persistent Broken status.

I would not expect this to be a common occurrence. Just as an exit strategy for the semblance of agency should this scenario occur.

deerstalker should be base kit

This is the exact cycle I’m always seeing here.

This is precisely how i think they should do it.

Is it true you can only use the perk twice per match?

That'd be the worst possible way to "fix" the problem.

I don't think there would be any option left to adapt after this. We could be faced again with a situation where killer are leaving (for real, not just ranting).

Then what would inevitably come is a massive nerf for survivors, with all the consequences.

All in all it'd be bad.

Better fix the problem at the source: make hooking viable (part of the problem) and/or slow down the gens (part of the problem).

The suggestion of making games about hooks may be the solution. (Like already said in this thread.)

Yeah, thats true. You can use Plottwist once at any time to down yourself and heal, and the perk will deactivate after this. Then, once the 5th gens pops and the exit gates are powered, the perk activates again and you can use it a second time, often handing you a cool, free escape unless the killer has Deerstalker or just is extemely lucky and stumlbes over you.

It only deactivates if you pick yourself up fully, so yeah that would work.

I’d prefer to keep the activation conditions simplistic, so not having a requirement of multiple survivors.

Thinking about SWF and endurance stuff, it should also add Deep Wounds to the survivor on that self-pickup too, so they couldn’t take advantage of it (endurance effects), and further add a time penalty for that survivor performing the basic self-pickup.

Broken, Deep Wounds, needing to position under hook, and fully recover. Think that might make it as unappealing as possible, while still being easily identifiable as a last resort.

• Fully Recovered, under hook, can recover the last 5%
• Becomes Broken, and suffers Deep Wounds

Though if you can elaborate on possible swf strategies I’d be more than happy to hear them.

This idea is a cumulative chimera of sporadic consideration of the topic over years. And certainly could use more facets of consideration to complete it.

So, fun fact, as I’ve obstinately done this as Killer myself: if you spam the hook button while picking up a survivor underneath a hook, you can initialize the hook animation before the stun window opens for survivors with flashlights. (At least I’m nearly certain about this, could also be latency).

That could be the criteria for the zone in which a survivor can pick themselves up: where the Killer would also be able to perform an immediate hook. (Possibly also making the location stricter too for survivor, to prevent moving in and out, and some visual particle effects/flair to indicate to the Killer and the survivor that the survivor is in that zone).

The last 5% could also reset itself if the survivor stops recovering, meaning the survivor would always have to have some small time commitment. As well as the rate of recovery for that 5% being lowered as needed. The Killer can take advantage of/that survivors would need to body-block for. At which point it kinda just becomes like picking up the survivor for that last 5% like a regular pickup.

The most frustrating killer playstyle to play against to me. Knockout is an obnoxious perk.

Luckily I haven't played again it much recently. Only time during the event was a Nemesis using sloppy to slow down the pick ups. Fortunately I was using Botany Knowledge, Strength In Shadows, Inner Focus and Sprint Burst. The new Inner Focus gives aura reading of the killers location for 6 seconds whenever a survivor loses a health state so was easy to find the slugged survivors and battle through sloppy with Botany. We all got out. Was just a happy coincidence I was testing out the rework to Inner Focus and had Botany otherwise I have no doubt we all would have died early.

Also, nothing was worse than the teleport spamming Sadako of a year or 18 months ago using Knockout and Third Seal with the add on that spread condemned to survivors when they interacted. Game would go on for ages and eventually everyone would die if it was full solo queue. Thank god they changed that!

i slugged people before it was cool