Camping/Tunneling Solution
To sufficiently combat hook camping and tunneling, I propose the following solution:
Remove the ability for killers to see hook auras and hooks themselves. The killer will only be able to see hook auras and hooks when carrying an offering for the entity (a survivor).
Upon hooking a survivor, the hook auras disappear, and the survivor is teleported to a random hook on the map.
Discard loud noise notifications for unhooks. The killer will know when someone is unhooked by paying attention to the HUD.
This would effectively counter hook camping and tunneling. The killer would not be willing to search the entire map looking for the hooked survivor, and would instead have to focus on finding a new victim.
Comments
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Using logic, combat my suggestion. Your response has absolutely no value. If you disagree, state why. I feel as if it would have a dramatic effect on camping and tunneling.
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i would love that but its a tiny bit too much so maybe keep the loud noise notification
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I like your idea, the hook mechanics are reminiscent of 2v8, where they would be placed in a random point on the map and if the killer lingered near them they would change location. This helped soooo much with camping.
Removing the unhook noise notification would be god tier. I cant tell you how often the MOMENT the killer gets that notification, they break off whatever they're doing to go right back to hook. Like I've had killers break chase or stop 5 feet from breaking a gen to get back to hook asap. This would absolutely help alleviate the tunnel, and force the killer to pay attention.
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I feel like the removal of the loud noise notification is fair. It’s no different from say, the very discreet noise notification that you get for distortion to alert you that your aura reading has been counteracted.
The actual location of the event should not appear however. This would lead the killer straight to the location and, as another stated, many killers will absolutely stop whatever they are doing to go tunnel someone out of the game.
I believe removing the loud noise notification effectively combats this. Paying close attention to the HUD for status changes is something that killers and survivors should have to do.1 -
killer should atleast get notified so he can create a bit of pressure, not tuneel, just get an idea on whats going on in the trial and where it happened. Tho the notif could be delayed a bit by like 2-4 seconds so survivors can run
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Congratulations, you've just created the biggest incentive to slug people in the history of DBD.
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I have a solution for slugging as well, actually. I planned to post it another time however. I don’t think it is as well thought out as this solution, but I believe it would combat slugging somewhat.
Killers should be looking for other survivors and monitoring generators, not camping or tunneling one person. They need an incentive to not do those things, and the best way is by removing, or dang close to it, the ability to camp or tunnel.1 -
While I do not oppose what you have suggested, I do disagree that the killer knowing the location of the survivor that was unhooked is the only way to apply pressure. The killer should not be allowed to camp or tunnel someone out of the game. This makes it less fun and results in disconnects, which can sometimes have a domino effect.
While the survivor is hooked, pressure can be applied. There are many perks that can be utilized to do this, because my idea would not negate the effects of any hook perks. Actually, my idea would make certain perks even more valuable, such as make your choice. They could add a brief aura reveal to it. It could result in a healthy change in the meta.
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There is a decent chance that the survivor will be randomly spawned on a nearby hook, one within line of sight, or perhaps even on the very hook the Killer placed them on.
If there is any logic behind which hook the survivor is teleported to, that can be dissected like with cages and played around.
The killer may very well stumble upon the hooked survivor while looking for a victim, such that they’ve now become more time-efficient than either spreading pressure or staying near hook, but spread pressure and got closer to the hooked survivor.
Though I agree with the removal of the unhook notification.2 -
I agree with what you are saying. One way to combat this is the random generation of hook locations each time a survivor is picked up. This would prevent the memorization of hook locations. I think it could be implemented to not have the survivor teleported to one of the hooks closest to the killer as well. If a killer approaches a hook, the hook could relocate to another location, similar to the 2v8 as another user mentioned. Do you think this would sufficiently solve this problem? If not, do you have any suggestions?
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Similar to Pyramid Heads cages.
To some extent it would work, but also does introduce hook shuffling as a niche to waste more survivors time: If a survivor was going for the rescue, but then is cut off by the killer, who forces the hook to relocate, they could cause more confusion and time spent traversing to hooks on the survivors side, while also allowing the killer to go a step further when cutting off survivors by potentially denying a trade.
Possibly a good thing, the caged survivors experience isn’t quite so static (in the case of relocation), and can be a tactical tool for the killer to waste more time if they can locate the caged survivor without accidentally triggering the relocation.
You could likely replicate that, but just using hook spawns.
At the same time though, there are points to be made about how deciding where to place survivors on Hook is a strategy in and of itself for Killer. As the Hooked survivor becomes a “watering hole” for survivors to congregate.
I don’t technically want to remove that.
I’d also like to make the hooked state a little bit more interactive.So how about:
A hooked survivor can slowly expand a radius around themselves by holding a button, steadily revealing the auras of hooks to themselves.
The survivor can then press another button while hovering over a hook to confirm it as a spectral link. Their Aura changes color, and is reflected on the hook they’re linked to, the hook whose aura is then shown to all other survivors.
If they’re unhooked, they will teleport directly underneath that selected hook. (Being unhooked by an unhooker, a self-unhook, or the anti-camp mechanic)
This can be canceled by expanding the radius again to reset the selection process.
(Preferably I’d like to remove the anti-camp mechanic, and allow the hooked survivor to channel their pain into a resonance onto their spectral linked hook, upon full resonance they swap to that hook).So now, the hooked survivor themselves is able to navigate this web of hooks (likely only once per stage given the time it takes to expand the radius and resonate to another hook), but whom still needs to be unhooked.
They can choose another hook to be unhooked at if they feel the killer is tunneling (via the link to another hook teleporting them there on unhook), and if the Killer is camping, they themselves have the agency to move to another hook (through resonance). (In this case it is the survivor utilizing pain resonance, lol).
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A killer that camps a hook is wasting 70-140 seconds of time they could be pressuring other survivors and furthering their objective.
You have 70 seconds to rescue the survivor, use it to repair gens instead of skulking around the hook, and the killer won't benefit from camping.
Survivors make camping meta.
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I run these perks if I have a lot of matches where the killer slugs: WGLF, MFT, Soul guard, DH. I don't have back to back killers who slug though, so most of the time this build is only effective 25% of the time. Hope this helps
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That’s a rather irrational take…
Video games are an entertainment medium.
People play them to be entertained.
If you had to choose between sitting at a generator holding M1 with the occasional QTE, or having a back and forth with a hostile presence, attempting to reach a point to help someone else (also taking advantage of empathy, spite, even a challenge), which would you choose as your form of entertainment?
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Gens are your main objective. If you don't enjoy that, maybe playing survivor is the irrational part.
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shrugs Gens are the objective, but not why I enjoy the game.
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Sure, but reduce hook stage duration to 50 seconds, so survivors need to save sooner.
Also give loud noice notification with unhooking, otherwise you are kinda killing macro sense for killers. Killer should go there anyway, if they are not in chase yet.Discard loud noise notifications for unhooks. The killer will know when someone is unhooked by paying attention to the HUD.
Killer can see it happened, but they can't see where. Even if I don't want to go there asap, information where to find two survivors for next chase is quite important thing to track.
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Oh, but I do want to add (as this post is also about tunneling, and by proxy: proxy camping):
Survivors might make camping meta, but the game mechanics make tunneling and proxy camping meta:
- If one survivor is taken out early, the hook/rescue/chase cycle now can now allow no time on generators: 1v3 becomes significantly skewed in the Killers favor
- Survivors that are unhooked, give the Killer a notification on where they were unhooked (and by nature of being in the same place.)
- Unhooked survivors are hooked in areas that possibly have had their resources (pallets/breakable walls) expended, and are now more likely a dead zone (making it easier for follow-up chases even against base endurance)
- Unhooked survivors bleed and groan in pain, coupled with the unhook notification providing the time they were unhooked, allowing for better predictive pathing based on the hook location from the Killer, should they double-back.
- Hooking survivors in potentially high-traffic areas (like in Gen clusters), allows the Killer to guard the hook from a distance while still effectively patrolling, increasing the likelihood of trades for an unhook
- From a metagame knowledge perspective, you always know where at least two survivors will eventually: at that hook, which can be tempting to return to upon hearing the unhook notification if you haven’t found anyone.
- From a basic reactionary perspective, the Hooked survivor is “your catch”, and you don’t want to let people take it. There is no strong incentive to go for other things, even if rationally it makes sense to do so. (I wonder if camping and hard tunneling is higher for new Killers, and if that might cause a negative impression on new survivors, possibly damaging player onboarding).
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What you're suggesting isnt an incentive, its a punishment for hooking, and you can see how well thats been going for BHVR. If you all keep demanding killers be punished for doing their objective you're just going to incentivise more and more annoying and toxic playstyles.
Camping is already bad for a killer unless you reward them for it. JUST. DO. GENS. Killer has zero map pressure if they are camping.
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