Something needs to be done about the last 2 survivors taking killer hostage

Considering how little points survivors get compared to killers as it is? No? lol

Killers shouldn't have to/be able to slug for the 4k, and survivors shouldn't be waiting for hatch either. I feel like maybe a timer should start and a 1v1 should happen maybe like the void where the final survivor and killer faceoff and if the timer runs out the survivor can escape. Something more fair than just omg hatch.

preach!

Hard tunneling doesn't get stomped by good players, though. Obviously tunneling is more dominant when a survivor is easy pickings and can be removed from the game at 5 gens, but tunneling a player to death before engaging anyone else is meta across the board and there's no better killer strat even in comp play, because achieving the 3v1 ASAP is the most consistent way to shift match momentum in the killer's favor, whether it's a win-more strat or it's the only option the killer has.

The only time tunneling from the start is a bad idea for the killer is when the survivor they're trying to tunnel is an extremely strong looper. In that case, tunneling isn't the problem, it's that they have the wrong target. And if each one of the four survivors are a bad idea for the killer to tunnel, then the killer is just outmatched and should lose. If a killer gets stomped by counter-tunneling, then they get stomped no matter what they do… exceptions made if every survivor is running every anti-tunnel perk on the book, but that situation doesn't realistically happen. It takes very on-point teamwork to counter tunneling long enough to matter, not just skill but strong communication and game sense (for when it's worthwhile to take a hit vs when it's just wasting time and doesn't buy the looper anything so you should be on gens.) Frequently I see survivors' attempts to counter tunneling work in the killer's favor.

That said, tunneling is not an easy issue to address (because what's overkill against bad survivors is mandatory against good ones and any one-size solution on this is going to screw over some bracket of the game), and not the purpose of this thread anyway. My point was that I think it's reasonable to give survivors a big gen boost for a 3v1 at 5 gens because they are 99.999% of the time guaranteed lost and have no incentive to try - especially if that boost falls off as gens are completed. It's not going to suddenly make survivors start winning these games with any regularity. I almost never see more than 2 full gens get completed in a 3v1 game; the loop of chase-hook-heal breaks down quite quickly as resources are expended, assuming the looper could loop long enough in the first place. And for most players, who are solos, their teammates falling over to a single poke or ragequitting immediately is scarcely their fault for 'being bad', and I'd argue that having games routinely be completely screwed so early, through no participation of your own, on is part of what makes this game unhealthy, alongside a flawed matchmaking system and toxic/antagonistic player culture. And I think it's unhealthy that killers are incentivized to chase this unwinnable game state - which is not an issue with killers, but rather an issue with game design, that the optimal strategy is not very engaging to play against.

Giving 3v1 survivors gen speed at 5 gens doesn't badly affect high level gameplay because 3v1 5-gens don't happen against the survivors where killers actually need to tunnel to win. I guess I just don't see the issue. Inefficient players will still lose, the killer still has a huge advantage and boosted gen speed is only going to really matter at less than 3 gens remaining (whereupon I don't want to give any significant boosts), but they at least get the illusion of being able to progress the match to a competitive point. The point is to get survivors in lost games out of lockers and onto gens, where the killer can actually find them - if this comes with nerfs to stealth, as proposed, this feels not only balanced to me, but more QoL to the killer than punishing them.

So you wouldn't find the hatch in ONE ENTIRE MINUTE? Seems unlikely. Mind you, even if the killer finds you, you still have extra time to look for the hatch because they need to get to you and down you before you reach it.

But if that's your main concern, then how about it deactivates once there is only one survivor left?

Get rid of killers slugging, and actually make it possible for two men to get out at the end with an alternate escape. Nobody's wants to get killed when they still have a chance.

Exactly! Players are hiding because of slug and seek. I had this happen to me as killer it did drag the game out but with patience you can find them. As survivor yes its annoying when your the last 2 and nothing is getting done. I don't care and will jump on a gen. But something needs to be done with 2 players left any slug and seek, it's really boring. It's gotten worse with the Mori.

No it's not, the Devs have already confirmed it many times. Slugging has a timer no different to hook timer, that timer is progressing the match even if it's not as fast as you would like. I'm my experience when in 2 v 1 situation it is the survivors that actually hold the game hostage by refusing to do gens for over 30min and simply hiding waiting for the other to get caught first so they can get the hatch. That does not progress the match and is confirmed to by the Devs as holding the game hostage.

As you have already said at that point the match is over, killer won so maybe if the remaining survivor came out of hiding the killer wouldnt need to slug the 3rd to allow time to find the 4th. Therefore if the game is held hostage don't blame the killer for slugging, blame the last survivor that refuses to do gens, refuses to heal you and refuses to progress the match.

when in 2 v 1 situations that's exactly what I do, slug the 3rd to give time to find the 4th. When I find and down the 4th I hook them and go back to hook the slug. It gives me 4min to find the last remaining player, faster I find them, faster the game ends.

So you are part of the problem.
As a survivor don't mind being killed, but being slug is boring.

If killer just hooks me when the chase end, I could do gen and try, but as long as I know the killer is gonna slug me for 4K I stay hidden.

You say I'm part of the problem but when the killer has clearly won the match why should they essentially let the survivor get the hatch preventing a 4k? The killer won. Sounds like the survivor hiding to get a win when they couldn't do their objective is the problem not the killer doing his objective. You can stay hidden but I can say if that happens with me then I'm more than happy to keep both of you alive and bring it to 1 hour server end time. I'm sure you would find that more boring

Killers don't cry if survivors go next, I have only heard of survivors cry about that because they let the rest of the team down. Personally I don't care if survivors wants to go next, makes no difference to me.

The game suggests taking the hatch when the hatch is available. If it's not available then the objective is do the gens. The fact is even the Devs say avoiding gens is reportable, even in 2 v 1 situations. If your willing to accept it's ok to break the rules because you disagree with the rules set out by BHVR then you can't complain when others also break the rules when they disagree with them. Rules like body blocking or flat out cheating

First : As i can read its an hide and seek game.

2nd : on the same site i can see a tutoriel that say " you will chase down, capture , and hook survivors " not slugs them.
3rd : on the in game rulebook its say killer objectif is to hook . Hook not to slug them.
4th : i just did the tutoriel to be sure, but the game say i need to hide when killer is near.

could you pls give me source about dev on the 2V1 ?
I didn't find anything but I'm interested, if its true , and i dont think you lie, i would read the interview

Avoiding gens is against the rules? Where exactly is that in the rules, because it sounds like you just made that up to justify an ez 4k. DBD's a hard snowball game, but no matter how hard survivors snowball, a killer can always have a chance to come back. Ive gotten more then a few games where I only get like 1 or two hooks the entire match and then 4k them all with only the exit gates without noed. Comebacks are always possible for the killer, but why isnt that the case for survivors? How exactly is not slugging also giving survivors the hatch? A killer will always have a higher chance to find the hatch considering they are significantly faster. At the current state of the game 4k's are almost guaranteed if a game goes south for survivors. Frankly even if reporting gen's was bannable, how are you gonna judge that? Maybe my plan is to tap it every 5 minutes to avoid detection.

Hiding for a period of time is fine, can hope the other survivor gets caught and wait out the hook timer or slug timer then go for hatch. But if both survivors are hiding for a prolonged period (exact timeframe isn't clear) that's where the issue is as it can and does result in the game being prolonged to server end time when both survivors get automatically sacrificed. Personally I think after the acceptable timeframe of hiding (whatever that is) both survivors should get crows or something so the killer can find 1, down them and either hook them or slug them then the countdown to find last survivor begins. It would save a lot of time in a match that should have been over way sooner and would prevent the rule breaking from even taking place.

not even touching gens and constantly hiding counts as refusing to progress the match aka. holding the game hostage :D

video proof showing how none of the gens have been touched by survivors along with ingame report is an instant sign of being held hostage in the match and leads to ban.

My opinion is simply abide by the Devs rules... If people don't like the rules they have the choice to not play the game. But disregarding the rules because someone doesn't agree with them is what leads to cheaters and hackers. As the Devs have stated it's against the rules to avoid gens, that's the way it is and should be followed like it or not. Your way is hand the survivors another chance at winning a match they lost while denying the killer the 4k they have rightfully won through the progress of the match. It would also encourage slugging all 4 from the start of the match to prevent the hatch being an option. Slugged survivors are far less likely to be able to crawl to the hatch. If the hatch is a viable option at the end of the match it will result in killers doing what they can to prevent it

I follow the rules I read, the Devs have clearly stated on multiple occasions avoiding gens is not doing the objective unless hatch is available. Until it spawns it's not available. Otherwise all survivors could hide the the whole match avoid gens waiting to be last one remaining to get the hatch which is ridiculous. The words clearly state avoiding gens for half hour is reportable as it's no different than body blocking. If you have a dispute with this then you should take it up with the Devs. I have yet to see anything saying it's not reportable. I don't care much about the 2 v 1 situation as it is really because I can wait the 1 hour server time and keep both survivors alive so they get sacrificed anyway so avoiding gens just prolongs the inevitable 4k. but any solution that results in survivors getting another chance at a game they lost will result in killers going further to prevent it.

You say the game should always have an escape no matter what stage... Ok so they fail to do gens and acknowledged it's impossible to escape, they get offered a hatch instead. If the hatch gets closed so it's impossible to escape, should they have another way out? My point is at what point is it enough? When should survivors acknowledge the match is a lose and how many chances should they get? They already have ample chance to do gens from the start, I don't see the killer getting free noed when all gens are done and all survivors are remaining. Even when freed from the hook they still get a shield and speed boost to fly past to the exit gates. Bottom line is survivors have their chance to do gens and escape, if they fail they fail, better luck next match.

You say the rule explanation of the evidence I posted (the Devs post) is ambiguous... Yet it gives more detailed description of the particular issue we are talking about than the actual rules you have shown. 2 survivors hiding not doing gens is considered holding the game hostage as it doesn't progress the match. The rules you have shown simply says holding the game hostage is griefing... That alone is open to interpretation so the dev clarified it by giving a more detailed explanation of what holding the game hostage actually entails.

Lol it's not my opinion it's come from the Devs that it's holding the game hostage. Although there is no exact time frame it does specifically say "half an hour" which is far more detail than the standard base line set of rules you have shown. It's astounding that you basically say a Devs explanation of a rule is equal to your own lol. It's unreasonable to expect a huge book explaining every little aspect in very fine detail to people. So they post a rough guide on what the rules are then if need be they clarify in more detail. I have never come across game where it gives such detailed descriptions of an offense in the basic rules like you seem to expect. Regardless of what your opinion is, your method of hiding doesn't accomplish anything because the killer can still get 4k by waiting until server end time... And I see nowhere that says that is against the rules and it still gives killer the 4k. so if you want to hide for the whole time have at it risk getting reported because it really doesn't solve anything.

As others have mentioned while speeding up the 2v1 part is a good idea generally, it would have to come with a change in mechanics. As it is just revealing auras/killer instinct or whatever would just lead to the match being over at 2v1, in turn leading to strategies that aim at removing one player at a time as fast as possible becoming the absolute best strategies (and they already are). - That in turn leads to an even worse surv experience.

In a 2v1 situation survivors need a viable option to continue playing the match; imo the best way to do that is that at 2 survs left it's "every (wo)man for themselves" and survs have a mechanic that allows them to individually escape / creates a small window of opportunity for both to escape. Idk, something along the lines of progressing surv objectives and being in chase gives points (similar to the event) and once the bar is full you can interact with the gate to open it for a short time (5 seconds?); when you start interacting with the gate your aura is revealed to the other surv (maybe only if their bar is full or they are currently in chase) so they have a shot at sneaking out as well. Since this would put the two survs at an advantage if many gens are left (just circle around; barely touch and move on, play it slow) I'd also be all for killer instinct after every 30 seconds of not-interacting with an objective. The chances of one, or even both, survs escaping that way are pretty slim, I'd say - especially since the map should be a massive deadzone at that point - but it gives a proper incentive to actually try. — For all I care hatch could then also be done away with, since the last surv has a viable way to get out without it. — Survs would need some kind of basekit UB/other mechanic to counter excessive slugging though. Once it's 2v1 the match should be over within two minutes max. There should also never be perks that affect that stage of the match (i.e. speeding up or slowing down the bar fill)

I spent 2 years as survivor main before I was killer main and I still play survivor occasionally so I do know the perspective of survivor pretty well. You seem to throw around the terms ambiguous and subjective to disregard almost anything that goes against your argument but the same could be said in reverse. For example, "this is a game of hide and seek" is very ambiguous and subjective. Yet you base your whole argument on this vague general description of a game. It makes no sense that survivors hide and killers seek because survivors have gens to do, not hide. So your whole basis of hide and seek argument is flawed as it completely ignores the core aspect of gens. If survivors won via hiding yes I would agree with you but the fact that survivors get automatically sacrificed if they hide too long without escaping is clear as day that simply hiding is not the goal of the survivor. That's how the game has been from day 1. Like I said you can hide as long as you like but I don't understand to what end as I have already explained if you hide too long the killer will win.

Also in hiding you risk your other teammate from ratting you out which happens a lot in 2 v 1 situations. Reason being 1 survivor wants the match to end but the killer is keeping both alive until they are both found and downed. So they lead the killer to the hiding survivor to get the match over with. Now aiding the killer is definitely against the rules but aiding the killer or "working with the opposite team" as it is said in the rules is such an ambiguous description and how will you prove that the survivor aided the killer in finding you if you were hiding and not just looking to be healed or running away from the killer? If you can't see how your own argument can be used against you then there truly is not hope lol.

so??? You've kinda brought yourself into a checkmate

I keep using ambitious because that's simply the current state of your point. This is a game of hide and seek, but an objective based one. But it's literally on their marketing page that this is the case. You're right that if you only hide you'll lose. But hiding isn't all they are doing, and you can still do gens and hide at the same time if you're tracking the killer well enough. Obviously that wont always workout.

Aiding the killer is something that only takes one second to prove. Sure what ive mentioned can at times be used against mr, and ill bear burden of proof to prove it. But when it clearly says helping the killer is bannable and someone's taking the killer around for a walk to find me makes the reporting process very easy.

Gald you're playing survivors, but you're ignoring the elephant in the room, and that's the issue. Your point about helping the killer is clearly in the rules. My point on hiding in 2v1's isnt . You have to take the most vague rule on the list and bend it to suit your needs for it to actually work. If you cant see how that's an issue then you're the one without hope. Glad we had this chat, but its redundant at this point. Clearly there's no progress being made so it's better to just end it.

I think that's exactly where your going wrong and why you fail to understand literally anyone says regardless of any proof given to you... It's insane to think that Devs comments are merely just comments. They are not random people making up their own rules, they are part of the development team for the game… they know the rules and in no way would they make up a rule saying something is bannable when it's not. It's like a random person with no knowledge of law trying to tell a judge "your wrong, that's not law that's your opinion"

As previously mentioned the rules you follow like a bible (the official rules) only says griefing which includes holding the game hostage... That is a vague term which does need expanding and clarifying on what exactly holding the game hostage is. That is what the devs have done. They explained more on what the griefing rule is. If someone is confused about something the official rules say how else would they get clarification? The answer is ask the dev team... They know.

Until you understand the rules, who has authority on explaining the rules and not claiming that's someones opinion even when it comes from a member of the development team from the game then you will never accept anything that gets said regardless of who's saying it.