Can't take the tunnelers.
Every single event game, slug and tunnel without fail. The first one hooked gets tunneled out. We try to be altruistic and help out but we just lose because of it. This game doesn't reward survivors for working together when there's no incentive for killers not to tunnel. We just need to accept the fact that one person will get to wait 15 minutes for a game to start and spend the next 3 minutes on the ground or on hook. Rinse and repeat. Can there be an incentive of ANY KIND for killers to spread the hooks out? And now slug for the mori. Person 1 tunneled out person 2-3 is on the ground from trying to prevent the tunnel and the last survivor is hiding in a corner waiting for hatch. "Get rid of distortion to prevent hiding" ######### are we supposed to do when 3 are slugged? Try and pick up someone just to get downed ourselves? They wanted killers to get the upperhand and they got it in spades. Survivors are quickly losing reasons to keep playing survivor. No amount of X% bp is going to keep people playing for long. "60 million players" Most of which only come back for events just to get reminded of why they stopped playing in the first place.
Comments
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You're not wrong, i tend to see tunneling a lot in general outside of events too. I would probably say just staple off the record and d-strike into your build to deal with it. Obviously not a great solution but it's one of the best i could think of.
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Unfortunately, a lot of times unless you've brought certain perks or you're in a 4 man SWF there is no reason to try and help against a tunneler, it is more efficient to sit on gens than be altruistic. I have also seen a lot of tunneling in my survivor matches since the event started.
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I'd say skill issue... Get better at looping, go into the match with the right perks to counter slugging and tunneling. I'm not saying you will last the whole match but at least it should give others time to do gens so it doesn't result in a 4k. Can't slug or tunnel if you don't go down, so don't go down so fast.
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The answer to bm and toxic playstyles isn't "get better."
Beyond that, if a killer wants you out of the match bad enough, they're taking you out unless you're incredible at looping. There is a question of whether they feel like getting just a 1k if you're very good at looping, but that doesn't stop the problem if the killer just feels like it.
And if you're a weak enough link on a team, there are killers who feel it's alright to make the match awful for you by selecting you for elimination immediately. Then once your match has been ruined, the whole remaining team has a 3v1 because the killer thought it was alright to do that.
The real solutions to this are implementation of anti-tunnel mechanics, incentives for not tunneling, and changing the community culture.
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Anyone complaining about tunneling should be required to post their own killer gameplay to show everyone how they manage to win without ever tunneling. Maybe then they would understand why it happens. Try playing "nice" and see how well you do against survivor teams that have even a moderate level of skill.
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You can’t incentivize not tunneling. The devs have tried that by giving buffs and all that did was make it easier to tunnel. Tunneling will always be a zero skill tactic that doesn’t require perks or add ons to be run to be effective. All incentivizing does is increase tunneling by giving them more tools to do it faster, especially since so many killer mains aren’t looking for fair or challenging matches. They’re just looking to win as quick and easy as possible.
The only way tunneling will stop is when it’s PUNISHED period. Punish it and give buffs elsewhere to compensate for taking away the effectiveness of the tunneling playstyle. Until that happens, nothing will change.
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That's fair, disincentives are probably best.
Though I don't think anyone should get buffs for choosing not to play in a way that disregards the experience of other players. If people are relying on tunneling to get a 2k or more, I think they're in the wrong mmr.
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Ive been forced to run DS, off the record, unbreakable, and reassurance because I get more matches with camping or tunneling than not. Like I want to play survivor, but its so bad i always just go back to killer
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That is the game survivors choose to play. If they want to see match through to the end they should play killer. If they don't mind the elimination style gameplay of survivor then play survivor. But I don't think it's fair to say a killer tunneling (eliminating a player faster than some would like) is toxic or that the killer feels it's alright to make the match awful by doing his job... Getting kills. Maybe the solution is make gens take considerably longer to complete and give survivors a respawn so they are never removed from the match but that would result in a whole different type of game thats not dbd.
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Are you saying that making it so a person can barely participate in a game is not toxic?
I think we need to keep in mind that people want to actually participate in the game, and tunneling prevents that. Why would someone want to play as survivor at all if someone got tunneled out in every match, giving the killer a 1v3?
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I'm saying that's the point to the game, eliminate the survivor...take them out of the match. If the survivors don't like that then simply don't play or learn to stay in the match longer. By definition tunneling is getting 1 survivor out, others are able remain in the match for a while longer until they are eliminated. Can't play an elimination game and complain when your 1st one out. Like I said gens fly so fast it means killers have to eliminate fast. I rarely tunneled originally but the moment gens started popping super quick even with regress perks while I was spreading hooks I turned to tunneling.
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What server are you guys on? I’m on NA East 11pm to 3 am and 10 am to 2 pm roughly.
I probably see tunneling in 1 of every 10 matches and slugging for more than 20 seconds in 1 of every 20 matches.
Full team slugs is about one in every 200 matches. Is gotta be a region issue.
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Reverting DS back to 5 seconds would be a good start. There needs to be some counter to tunneling otherwise it spirals out of control.
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I wrote some big long message, but I don't want you to think I'm being hostile, and I'm sleepy, so I'm writing a shorter one :D
I think that even in this sort of game, we need to remember that other people want to participate and have fun. That's the ultimate goal of the game for everyone, to enjoy it!
So, while you're right that tunneling will get someone eliminated, it still does it in a way that typically makes the experience very negative for the person on the receiving end. Also, something something gens popping, 1k is alright :D
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From a purely scientific perspective, an overwhelming majority of subjects with low IQs tend to exhibit more brutal or humiliating behavior.
So from that point of view, you end up coming out of this 15-minute game even better than others.
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"60 million players" There are probably 10 million players alone who have Epic game accounts from the free DBD week that are used for cheat backup accounts
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It may be negative for the player eliminated first but that's game lol. 1 in 4 chance of being the unlucky tunnel victim. On the bright side at least they get to go next sooner than the rest of the team. I'm all for making the game fun for all but what makes 1 happy can make another frustrated. I think thats the way it's going to be unless they rework the whole game at its core. Hate the game not the player 😁
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Just use Off The Record and Decisive…
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Doesn't help… They still keep tunneling
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I’d love it if people stop playing survivor for this reason. Then when everyone moves to killer and killer queues are 20-30 minutes long, maybe BHVR will actually do something. The game is a 1v4 asymmetrical. That’s the way it was designed and balanced. By tunneling someone out and making it a 1v3 at the start, it’s making the game into what it wasn’t designed to be, and messing up the balance.
And honestly that’s BHVRs fault for allowing it. Unfortunately most people who game are not going to play games as they’re intended they’re just looking for the quick easy win to get their dopamine hit and feeling of power. Until BHVR decides enough is enough, the only thing players can do is refuse to play the game. I truly hope survivors mains start switching to killer.
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You need to accept it then. It's not forbidden, a little wimpy tactic in my opinion, but everyone can play the game how they want to.
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I dare to say that most of the tunneling that people actually mean is like this:
More then 50% of the time where the killer tunnels in my game is because survivors unhook TO FAST you can hang there for 70seconds per health state yet people wanna unhook in 0,1 second in the killers face for some reason. What do you expect the killer wil do?
Or the unhooked person who is body blocking a hit for someone while on last hook stage that afterwards yelled the killer tunneled?
As a solo survivor i try to play as optimal as it can get but i see so many people just running around without a clue and i am not talking about people with 100h or something but even people with 2k - 3k hours that should atleast know something about the game.
Also some people also confuse tunneling with the fact they died first… but in reality the killer went to 3 other people first.3 -
Sadly, this is what I see, too. And when I use my killer Clown I just get crouching constantly and bully squads.
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Honestly, it's not just the game, it's the player who chooses to do these things. The only times when it's alright to use 'strategies' that almost exclusively aren't fun for other people playing the game are in the realm of professional sports (or esports).
You came to this thread, read OP's post, and said that getting tunneled is a skill issue in spite of the fact that most of the community considers tunneling bm at best, and in spite of the fact that OP is clearly having an awful time. The truth is that playing killer is incredibly easy until you push yourself up beyond an MMR where you can reasonably win matches.
I don't tunnel, camp, or slug for 4k unless a squad has chosen to ignore their goals and try to harass me. Nevertheless, I face survivors much more talented than I am as survivor. I expect that at the end of the first chase, a gen or two is about to pop, but I run a little slowdown and can usually pull a 3k or 4k without much effort. At equilibrium, I do occasionally get a 2k or less, but that's alright.
If the only way someone playing killer can win matches is by tunneling, that person probably has a skill issue.
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I don't see tunneling that often, or not before a few gens have popped.
However there are many perks to counter tunneling. Everybody will think of OTR, DS, DH, …
But Reassurance seems to be pretty good too. I've posted this a few days ago but I believe it may really help a lot of player to learn how to do it.
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But you seem to be saying that the only way a killer can play and not be considered toxic is to run slow down perks and spread hooks. Without slowdowns the gens fly. I'm already forced to run lightborn with the constant flash bangs and flashlights. It removes any variety of perks and playstyles. Regardless of how much or little skill is required to tunnel it does take some skill to counter it that's why I say it's a skill issue.
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Why is someone waiting 15 minutes for a game? Are the queues to play as survivor SO packed full when the experience is apparently just horrible every match?
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If getting tunneled frequently, then you should be getting tons of opportunities to practice in chase vs the killers you go against. Being eliminated first sucks, but you are getting a lot more time to practice in chase than sitting on a gen will give you. As you get better in chase, you're much more likely for the killer to drop chase vs you and go after an easier target.
Its not the answer anyone wants to hear, but its true. Trying to tunnel someone who is good in chase can be a massive time sink, even if they eventually go down. There should be gens flying if someone is getting tunneled, as the killer can't be both tunneling and pressuring gens at the same time (unless the person being tunneled keeps looping around an in progress gen, of course.)
Tunneling is effective when its efficient. It easily loses games when that efficiency is taken away.
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I don't think the only way a killer can play and not be toxic is to run slowdown. It's possible to run multiple perks to enhance your chase and try to down survivors faster than gens pop. But I also don't think I'm super broken at chase, so I usually run one slowdown perk, one or two information perks, and one or two chase perks.
One thing that I do find problematic is that at very high survivor skill level, it seems some killers can become practically unviable. I don't think I'm top MMR, so my take on this will have varying mileage, but my impression is that at the highest skill levels, high mobility killers (e.g. nurse, blight, etc.) are almost necessary.
Having said that, I've seen one streamer who just pops onto stream and starts doing a 4k streak with nurse literally every time. I've never seen him struggle to dominate a match. And when he doesn't get a 4k, it's because he let the last one live intentionally, or they got hatch.
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That is a odd way to comment with saying don't play or do better? I had a match against a deathslinger who was proxy camping. He was hiding behind a gym wall. When the survivor came for the save, he waited until I was unhooked and as soon as my feet touched the ground bt did nothing when he shot me. He then pulled me close and even tho I was pulling away to break the chain, bt still ran out, and he downed me. So no, not every killer can be countered. When it comes to camping or tunneling. Plus saying don't play because killers play in a pathetic manner is just ridiculous 🙄 Behavior needs to change a lot of bs that goes on in this game yet they keep sitting on their hands
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I'm not sure if my MMR is high or not (I assume high based on the frequency I get 3/4k...how many months does someone have to get 3/4k to get in higher MMR? but obviously I have no idea) I did notice a huge influx of swf and players that clearly know the strong areas and weak areas of the maps and fully kitted out with top perks. Going against them with low mobility killer is a real sweat fest. I usually go PH or Myers. Both low mobility. tunnel with PH and double iri Myers is the way I go and people usually complain regardless if they get taken out fast by PH or mori later in the match by Myers. It takes so long to get T3 that it gives people the opportunity to play the game but they still say toxic killer lol.
I wish I was going against easy going players but unfortunately that's rare and even rarer to not have any negative remarks post match about how I play the game what perks I'm using (noed being almost guaranteed to get people worked up). They get to play the whole match then complain they lost at the end due to a perk 🤷♂️ would they rather be tunneled out asap? That's my experience anyway, others might have a different experience playing the game
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The issue is that if there is balance in 1 v 4 soloq then swf teams will over power the killer. If it's balanced around swf then the killer is over powered making it very very difficult for survivors to escape. I don't see a reasonable solution to this, no matter what happens there will always be 1 side that gets the raw deal. For me, when I play survivor I'm soloq and know very well the chances of me escaping is very low. So my "win" criteria isnt escape. It's to get as many BP and last as long as I can before I die. If I escape then it's a bonus. It's rough as soloq. Especially when teammates are doing personal challenges like cleanse 20 totems instead of doing gens but some killers are constantly going against swf so often that they don't know if it's the rare occasion someone is soloq...they play as they normally would v swf team
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Theyll never nerf tunneling because it's a game design decision for killers to have a fail safe. Bad killers use tunneling as a way to win. The minute a match seems hard killers will switch to tunneling to win.
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The counter to that is the team blocks the chain, that's happened to me and someone got in the way of the chain and took a hit. The counter to many tactics killers use is teamwork. If there was no counter individually or via the team then I would agree with you but sometimes it takes a team to counter. That's why soloq is so rough, the team work isn't that great.
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I feel that. If I'm feeling competitive and pull too many 4ks for a while, I'll start getting evenings where I'll get obvious swfs over and over again, bringing rare offerings that strengthen the whole team, all strong loopers, heavy meta playstyles. Sometimes I'll see the same swf multiple times.
I main Pig, and her mid-match has to be strong to win those matches. So the pig hats and slowdown have to couple hard, and all chases have to start with the survivor injured or get the first hit after a couple seconds. That makes her chases into one-shot downs if you approach the survivor with broken line of sight.
But then sometimes I get tired of the sweat and let the boopers escape. If I'm feeling competitive, I don't give them a moment to try for boops, and if they get a boop off, I'll leave them slugged for pressure. But I usually give the last person an escape once I down them, or if I win the hatch race, I'll guard the hatch and make them be brave to get out.
Having said that, I usually get positive interactions in post game chat. It's probably the contrasting play styles you and I have that make that difference. It's definitely fun to have a good match and then get to have fun with your survivors at the end :D
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When it gets bad for me I Use OTR, DS and unbreakable. 4th slot whatever.
If the killer is gonna kill me. So be it. I’ll be wasting as much time as possible though for the gens to get done.
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Can a dev or community manager comment on this topic? This has been one of the biggest problems in the game for the longest time and a serious problem for player retention. It honestly feels like a huge elephant in the room the way this topic is being ignored. Are there going to be any base game changes to disincentivize tunneling? ARE THERE ANY PLANS TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM?!
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To be fair, maybe if every survivor didn't gen rush and make every match last five min, killers wouldn't have to slug and tunnel. I understand if you are exempt from this, but 90% of killers only slug and tunnel because of gen rushing. It's the only counter to it because every gen regression perk gets nerfed to oblivion. This game caters to survivors heavily and you can't convince me otherwise.
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Honestly, I don't think gen rush is a thing. Survivors should start the match spreading out on gens and as killer I usually expect to see significant progress on one or two gens by the time I'm getting my first hook. My feeling is that genrush is just what should be happening.
As far as whether the game caters to survivors or killers, that's going to be influenced by an individual's skill level and the tactics they use. Tunneling out a weak target is going to give you a 1v3, and if done when there are three or more gens left, it can heavily switch the match in your favor. If tunneling is done effectively, it will push a killer's MMR higher than they're ready for, causing them to need to tunnel more. Tunneling people out will often lead to more tunneling.
However, it tends to ruin the game for the tunneled survivor and often wrecks the game for their team. There are five people in each game, and tunneling is usually fun for one person at most. So the primary effect of strong tunneling is to make the killer player sweat more and make the game less fun for most survivors.
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I'm not even sure 5 seconds would be enough at this point.
I think something that might help as well is having more killer perks that actively encourage spreading hooks similar to old BBQ and Pain Res. They could even go as far as to add that old Ruin downside that the perk deactivates once a survivor is dead and can no longer be used (I still think they should have kept that and buffed Ruin's regression speed back to 200%).
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Baseline Second chance meta (DS, Unbreakable) is what it's going to take to stop it. Second Chance meta was the sole reason killers didn't tunnel for the most part or lost the game due to tunneling.
I don't care if you are "punished for doing well" maybe you need to slow down to allow the game to flow a bit more nicely, go kick some gens or eat the stun.
Such a no brainer move rn it's annoying. Yes these perks should be baseline as they were the backbone of this game for the longest time and it will just free up peoples perks to get new builds and have more fun.5 -
Maybe it wouldn't be enough, but I think it would help. DS being a powerful was basically the only punishment keeping tunneling at bay for a long time.
Together with BBQ's existence, of course.
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