The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update

Boons and Hexes, Oh my

I know there has been a discussion about Boons 3 years back, when the first ones were introduced, but I just recently learned something:
A single person with a Boon Perk can counter a Hex Build entirely.

Placing a Boon on a Hex causes the Hex to becom dull once I snuff the boon.
If I play Hex Perks, this just means my Hexes will be gone 2 gens in. Which is even worse if you use Pentimento, unless you also use Shattered Hope. So each game turns into a 50/50 guessing game, where I either waste a slot on Shattered Hope, or am forced to use it if I want to utilize Pentimento at all.

Since I only play this game whenever new Rifts or Killers I like show up, I dont know the in-depth discussions going on, but has there ever been an attempt to soften these restrictions?

Hex Builds have always been wonky and jank, but I like them, so I'd really love to see them be at least slightly better again, instead of the perks becoming dead weight less than halfway through a match.

Comments

  • YuffieGreatestWaifu
    YuffieGreatestWaifu Member Posts: 234

    Hexes are SUPPOSED to be high risk high reward.

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 1,384

    Yes, but it takes 10 business days to bless a hex.

    Anyway, make totem spawns better.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,877

    I don't know that I see this as a problem, honestly.

    Think about it, the survivor still

    • Found your hex
    • Stopped and completed the interaction on that totem
    • Even chose to take longer doing it than normal

    Without boons in play, your hex is gone anyway, boons just also give survivors an unrelated bonus if they happen to be running those perks. If a survivor has, say, Overzealous, that's another perk that allows them to get an extra benefit for finding and cleansing your hex. I can't see any reasons Boons shouldn't work the same way, myself.

    Hexes could absolutely use some help, but I don't think this specifically is a problem area. This works pretty much the way it should.

  • RhodosGuard
    RhodosGuard Member Posts: 69

    But that's not how they actually function. There is no reward. They work for a minute and by then all of them have been either boon'd over or destroyed.
    For something to be high risk high reward, there needs to be a chance for me to actually properly be able to utilize them, but there is none. Survivors with enough hours played to know what Hexes can do will just make them useless unless I use up half my slots to maybe edge out a few seconds to defend them. With how easy it is for survivors, who have no time pressure, to dismantle them, I shouldnt have to run a full build dedicated to hexes to utilize maybe 2 hex perks.

  • YuffieGreatestWaifu
    YuffieGreatestWaifu Member Posts: 234

    • Your choice but Hexes should be a full build to max its effectiveness or and protection of them.

  • RhodosGuard
    RhodosGuard Member Posts: 69

    Then remove Hexes, or replace them with something that actually works without requiring full investment.
    With this argument, you might as well say "Never play Hexes, they are useless" which is a really good argument when your supposed punchline is that asking for buffs if dumb.

    But without a boon, I can use Pentimento. Which is one of, if not the definitive, perk that's supposed to make Hex Builds work.
    People say "you need to make your entire build cater to hexes if you want any individual hex perk to be worth taking, and then I take one of those perks, and it is entirely negated by a random survivor having a boon.

    Imagine if any Survivor Perk was bound to the Killer not doing some arbitrary low effort action.
    People would riot immediately.
    "You can only use lithe as long as one random crow on the map has not been disturbed"
    I mean, only need to pick up the "Crows arent disturbed when you are within 8 feet" perk and stay close to your crow the entire game, which totally justifies that this perk of yours is bound to an arbitrary object not being interacted with.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,877

    That is true, you can't use Pentimento, but other than that one specific perk it works exactly as intended.

    All of the other hex-defence/hex-support perks work properly against boons, so I don't view this as a giant issue with hexes, and rather just… the one singular downside for picking Pentimento over the other support perks.

  • RhodosGuard
    RhodosGuard Member Posts: 69

    Picking a boon always has a benefit. The only way a boon becomes a liability is when you face a Killer with both shattered hope and Pentimento. While picking Shattered Hope is a gamble that anyone even brings a boon, and Pentimento alone is a gamble that noone has a boon.

    There simply is a clear discrepency in the value between picking Hexes, picking Hexes with defences, picking hexes without defences, and picking 2 very specific perks that can just be entirely useless.

    There is a reason Hexes were only ever Meta when Ruin caused 200% regression.
    I just dont get how the proposition of an entire class of perks that only work if you, first, dedicate your entire build to it and second, the survivors are oblivious to that build enough to let you play it out, is fun.

    And supposedly we hate things that aren't fun here.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,877

    I mean, sure, but that's not super relevant here. Picking a lot of kinds of perks guarantees a benefit, the fact that hexes are more inconsistent is both by design to a degree, and a unique issue to them.

    I'm not saying that hexes are in a good spot, I was careful to make sure to say the opposite in my first post. I'm just saying their interactions with boons really aren't the issue- if hexes were in a healthier spot right now, you'd still see them disappear if they're booned over, because that's just logical.

    There are other things that would help hexes out here. I've always been a big champion of having them not light up until they've actually had an effect on the match, and possibly also having the potential totem spots be re-randomised at set intervals every few months so finding totems just inherently gets harder without the tools to do it. Those cover hexes' actual issues right now, being that they're too likely to be cleansed immediately.

  • RhodosGuard
    RhodosGuard Member Posts: 69
    edited October 27

    I want Hexes, which are already half useless every game, to not have an additional weakness, by having a hardcounter.
    If they are strong enough fine, but the strength of hexes is irrelevant when the only way that power comes into play is if you play your entire build catered to them, or you are playing against rather bad survivors.
    Survivors have no time pressure. The Killer is the one who effectively only has 450 Seconds to win.
    I can already not commit to long chases because I lose gen pressure, if I now also cant commit to gen pressure because I have to defend randomly placed totems because otherwise I dont have any perks because to make those perks do something I have to pick only perks that work with totems, then Hexes are not powerful. They are obsolete in a world where survivors know that glowing Totems mean something bad is happening. Which is compounded by the game telling survivors which perk they are affected by so they can perfectly pinpoint what the hex is even doing.

    The power argument is irrelevant here, because the power is limited by factors that makes playing Hexes useless.
    Draculas new Hex Perk gives you 33% repair time reduction to a single survivor, and only after a gen is completed and even then, the affected Survivor sees the totem if they are close to it. Is that really so powerful that to have this effect be meaningful at all, I have to pick up 2 more perks to make sure it isn't cleansed by someone randomly stumbling across it? It's effectively a worse version of Pentimento. And Pentimentos weakness is that noone cleanses dull totems, and unless you can get 5 active totems at some point you cant ever play it to it's full efficiency meaning best case is 30% less repair speed for all survivors. Only if they do not see Pentimento show up when they repair and immediately going back to where the last cleansed totem was.

    Hexes add patrol points, meaning they are already kinda bad on anything that doesnt have good movement or can set up traps.

    It's also really funny to see people complain that killers have weird requests when survivors cry about literally anything any Killer can do they dont like. Currently they are asking for basekit unbreakable because Killers got Yellow Mori Basekit, and they believe that means they slug more.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • RhodosGuard
    RhodosGuard Member Posts: 69
    edited October 27


    Tell me you never cleanse totems without telling me you never cleanse totems, which is the only way you can say they're all good.

  • RhodosGuard
    RhodosGuard Member Posts: 69

    More than half of all Hex Perks are picked less often than people playing completely without perks
    https://nightlight.gg/perks/viewer?shown=pick&sort=pick&role=killer&start_days=28&compact=true

  • RhodosGuard
    RhodosGuard Member Posts: 69

    Where are you taking your stats from dude?
    No Killer has a Killrate of 70% and the most used builds have a killrate of 63% and none of these builds are completely Hex focused.

    And the lower the pickrate the less significant the kill rate is. It's simple maths.

    But sure. Throw around random numbers and hope people believe you.