http://dbd.game/killswitch
My proposed solution for people complaining about slugging
Here lately, there has, supposedly, been a "slugging epidemic". This post isn't about the morality of slugging, or of any major mechanics changes to slugging, but of a simple solution to make it feel just a little less bad.
My idea is that, when you're bleeding out on the ground, you should get bloodpoints. Probably for the braveness category, i don't know, but for something. I'm not sure how much would be fair, but there should be some amount. That way, when someone is bleeding out, they at least get some amount of value from it so the game doesn't feel as bad if/when it happens.
Assuming the stats on slugging are true (i have no reason to believe otherwise), then this also wouldn't throw off the balance of bloodpoints much either. If everyone is max bleeding for a few seconds, then that's only, like, 20 bloodpoints or something like that for them.
I think this change would not only help reduce the complaints about slugging, but also would help people who do often get slugged still be able to get something out of it!
Comments
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While we don't think it will reduce the complaints, it would ease the rage a tiny bit.
Recovering gives survival points perhaps while being near the killer as a slug gives some boldness.
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oh, does it give some bp to recover? i forgor
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probably, but adding some survival category points really wouldnt hurt, especially in a slugging scenario
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Better than a kick to the balls but hardly a solution. An actual solution would be for survivors to be able to pick themselves up. For fairness to the killer, it should take time. Like once the survivor reaches 99% healed, the survivor can crawl while adding progress to a timer. After 30 seconds or so then the survivor can pick themselves up. Killers could still slug but it would only put a survivor on time out for about a minute. That would be a proper solution.
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And would remove any pressure for other survivors to rescue them, after all they'll get themselves up eventually anyway.
Which was the problem with the basekit Unbreakable PTB.
Slugging exists for a reason, to generate pressure when it's not advantageous to hook. So regular slugging throughout the course of the match shouldn't be punished.
The problem is entirely; slugging for the 4K, and bleeding out to grief.
Both would be solved if the ability to pick yourself up only activated when all survivors are down. If all remaining survivors are in the dying state, one of them can get back up. After all there's no pressure to steal from the killer because there's no one else to pressure.
That would be a fair solution.
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It would still be faster for other survivors to pick each other up. The timer is negotiable. But slugging as a strategy needs to go away. Killers need to be incentivized to pick up survivors within a reasonable period of time. Forcing players to spend up to 4 minutes of their time spent bleeding out is just unacceptable. I don't know why it has been tolerated for this long. Some pity points isn't a solution.
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Doesn't matter how fast or slow it is. Survivors will leave each other on the ground to gen rush if they're able to do so.
If there is a survivor able to make a rescue, that's the play that needs to happen.
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And would remove any pressure for other survivors to rescue them, after all they'll get themselves up eventually anyway.
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Whats the point in getting more bloodppoints for not being able to play the game?
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If gens got a repair speed bonus, it would also stop slugging in its tracks. Nobody would want to guard somebody on the ground while the gens fly in the background. Same goes for face camping. The trick to stopping that stuff is to understand what part it plays in the strategic mindset of some killers. Why they do it. There needs to be a counter that has enough weight to make the risk no longer worth the reward. But yes the bp is good as well.
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the trick in fixing "annoying" in annoying strategies is not to fix the "strategy" part instead.
you failed here ngl
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One way to give incentive to not slug would be to get rid of flashlights, flash bangs and the hatch lol. If a killer can't pick up due to flash bangs ect they will slug. If survivors get steamrolled and hide out for the hatch, killers will slug to get the 4k they rightfully should get in that situation. Slugging is often used as a counter to survivor tactics so maybe look into the root cause of why killers slug and deal with that?
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nonono, lets remove a reactive strategy that serves as a way to punish and counter risky and otherwise powerful plays survivors have.
let it play it for a patch or two and then watch devs perform the most massive knee jerk reaction compensation buff to killers / nerf to survivors to address all the suddenly surfaced issues that were covered up by slugging.
we arent looking for simple solutions, we wanna see le game burn
seriously though, survivors should never ask for unfun arbitrary skill expression be taken from killers. anytime killers have a FUN and OPTIMAL/META strategies be the same thing, survivors sorely regret that experience because it means being completely destroyed by a series of 1v1s with no way to combat that on macro level.
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Instead of some form of base kit unbreakble why not at this point just buff the unbreakable perk. Instead of a single use have 2 or even 3 charges. This would mean that slugging would not be an ideal strategy at all for killers.
However i will note that every post i see about slugging its called a strategy. Why should ways to kill in the game be stopped fully? Reduce it sure, make it harder sure but it should never be removed from the game because when you start out right removing potential strategies from the game your telling players how they can or cannot play.
Also removing one hated strategy from the game will lead to others such as camping and tunnelling eventually being removed from the game meaning killers then have no alternative ways of playing except down, hook, hunt, down, hook, hunt and so on.All these strategies are completely fair when used in a general game what everyone needs to make a point of in posts complaining is this is about a toxic use of these strategies. Such as 4k slugging at 5 gens, Hardcode tunnelling at 5 gens. Not complain about slugging because its the best option at the time. Or tunneling because the unhooker has hidden leaving the only option a tunnel unless the killer just throws.
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the issue with all these wonderful ideas is that they arent solutions for the frustration factor of the strategy, they're just killing any kinds of viability it has and don't solve it being a way to troll people.
igaf if survivors had 2,3 or infinite stacks of unbreakable, i used to bleed out lobbies with 3 exponent boons lit up playing whack a mole for 10 minutes purely because i was so much better they couldnt offer any reasonable opposition. however if i were to run in good enough opponents, even a single unbreakable stack was game changing.
study the reasons WHY slugging, a fair, balanced and legitimate strategy feels bad to face and look into the ways to relieve or address that. Stop adopting the mindless "just overbuff the counter" mindset that NEVER helps to ease the real problem
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What's the killer doing in the meantime? You're telling me that with, I don't know, a 20 minute timer, a killer is getting genrushed by 1 survivor and is powerless to stop them?
If the answer is "no", that means there's a healthy middle ground we can work with, where an altruistic recovery is multiple times faster, but a self pick up is still possible.
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yeah great idea you should be rewarded for losing
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This would not really solve anything. People play the game to actually play the game, not to be left on the ground for minutes. That they get a few BPs does not really fix anything.
There will be a solution for extensive slugging eventually. Hens wrote in a recent tweet that Survivors should pick themselves up after 2 minutes, which is a fair solution IMO. No Killer needs to slug for 2 minutes to create pressure or to wait out a DS (Imagine respecting DS in 2024 anyway, lol). 2+ minutes of slugging are usually done for griefing or to waste everyones time for a small ego boost by slugging for the 4K.
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Who cares if someone is rewarded bloodpoints for losing an interaction? Are you seriously complaining about the idea that slugged survivors can earn bloodpoints?
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imagine complaining about hatch.
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I agree. Easy solution is to allow survivors to pick themselves up after a period of time. Maybe 90 seconds. That would pretty much solve it.
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There is no slugging epidemic. Just people moaning and using flimsy arguments and mental gymnastics to try and get more basekit buffs so they don't have to improve at the game.
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Yeah, I think that if you've been on the floor for 90-120 seconds, odds are the killer doesn't intend to pick you up, and at that point you should be able to pick yourself up. Maybe with a a bit of haste/endurance if the killer is just sitting on you.
I would further augment this by stipulating that multiple survs must be down, so one surv can't game it by just crawling off to Narnia (or punishing one bad actor abusing Boil Over, etc.).
This won't punish killers for tactical slugging, but will all but prevent four person bleedout nonsense, for which there is no good reason.
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It really does in fact matter. If basekit unbreakable was 3 minutes in this scenario, I can't imagine any player who would want their teammate effectively out of the match for two whole gens worth of progress when they could spend a fraction of that time picking them up and resetting to continue a quicker progression of gen completion.
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If it meant they were out of danger, they definitely would.
And would a 3 minute Unbreakable make any difference? The bleedout timer is 4 minutes.
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The 4k slug is a consequence of an incredibly large number of mistakes on the side of the survivors, so no, you shouldn't get a helping hand because your whole team screws up several times in a row.
if this is really a problem for you then take the anti-slug perk, if you don’t want to take the anti-slug, then the slug is not such a problem4 -
Even if they are out of danger, having 1 person slugged for that long is effectively playing like one person has already been sacrificed. The killer can snowball from there within those 3 minutes and the game would be over. Even if they get up, the game is unrecoverable for survivors.
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Why complain about it when killers can play around it by slugging which gives more time to find the last survivor? Down the 2 then hook the 2. Longer it takes to find the the last survivor is more time the other one is slugged. 🤷♂️ No complaints here anyway
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yeah ok
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Oh no.. the horror! It's almost as if there's 3 other players (well 1 bot) in the game to help you up. I see two hooks at 2 gens left, so this isnt a problem game at all, this is your fellow survivors leaving you on the ground to bleed out. You're literally out in the open in the centre of the map, this isnt a slugging problem at all lol.
Your pic literally proves me right but okay.. :)
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As long as survivors can run Boil Over etc and keep running to an upstairs on maps such as Eerie which make them unhookable slugging needs to be a thing
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Such a weak argument. This is the same like "If Hook Deadzones dont exist and Hooks respawn there will be less slugging"… Guess what, nothing changed.
I am always for Boil Over being changed, but it is just a weak argument. Even if you would change Boil Over or remove Flashlights/Flashbangs, you would still have massive amounts of slugging because a) it is used for griefing and b) it is way too efficient.
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Sure but can we get rid of all aura read add ons and aura read killer perks and Franklin's demise and conspicuous actions
You know I'd love to use my ds for end game tunneling so the killer do not get a free kill they should not earn and wonder why they rightfully got looped and lost.
Post edited by buggybug on1 -
The sad part too is how they the say survivors get too altruistic and should do gens if someone is being slugged/ tunneled and now they saying it's their team should stop gens and get people up rescue, heal like it's just no win with killer mains just a endless merry go around.
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This.
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I think if two or more people are on the ground and they crawl to each other they should be able to recover back to injured together.
only way to stop slugging is if you scrap bleed outs otherwise nothing will incentivise killers from doing it1 -
Slugging isn’t a strategy it’s a failed skill check. If you can’t kill with it slugging you’re bad at the game.
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Maybe there’s a way that slugging can be turned into another game for Survivors. I can’t recall who here mentioned it but someone here mentioned base-kit Tenacity. I’ve been thinking about it and I think it would be a healthy start. Because at least Survivors can reliably hide and recover at the same time if the Killer decides to slug.
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Um no? I have more screen shots from that game we were all slugged multiple times throughout that match with knockout and I was solo que idk about the rest but with no communication we couldn’t pick up quick.
”this proved me right”
Keep telling yourself that
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weaksauce argument because killers slug even when boil over isn’t in play
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can we just bleedout on the ground faster or when we want to or something
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If you can't counter boil over that's a you issue. as all you need to do is strafe walk and it helps you more then them.
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I don’t mean to be rude, but does anyone even care about blood points anymore? Killers certainly aren’t going to find this as something to disincentivise digging.
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i never tried to incentivize it not to happen. This post has been morphed to be completely something i didn't intend. I was just trying to find a way to make slugging feel less bad, not to make it stop happening
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you wanna TLDW this video for me? i have no desire to watch it and you just didn't do anything to explain your point without someone watching the video
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Learn to post pictures that actually back up what you're saying rather than one that doesn't. Either way you're still not proving theres an "epidemic", just single one off games with someone running a build specifically to slug with slugging perks. Try again.
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Not really possible on console which are the majority of the playerbase, also doesn’t change some maps you need to drop from height to a hook which means a Boil Over user gets off for free.
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Things did change though as now people don’t slug because they can’t hook, only when they want to slug.
It’s not more efficient than hooking as it doesn’t contribute to kills which is the objective. If you can hook people quickly someone will eventually die where if you slug they can always be picked up indefinitely unless you manage to slug all 4 at the same time.
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It's iffy whether or not that works. Boil Over knocks me in the wrong direction, I often get stuck on the environment, and if I try to actually direct which way I want to go, strafing or not, I feel stuck in place. If they don't go down within a few feet of a hook, the only surefire effective counter I've been able to use against Boil Over is slugging. Hell, I just had a match with a Boil Over player and it took me a good while getting knocked around directly in front of the hook before the damn game took my input and actually put them on the hook.
There's no way to turn it off, no requirement, no tokens, no need for a teammate, it's just always on, so any killer whose analog stick feels like it's not responding whenever they're carrying someone with Boil Over is left with one counter. A perk for which the only surefire counter is slugging is horrible design.
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Not picking up quickly is the entire point of knockout, it's a different kind of slowdown perk. You can't forget that generators can be blown through not even 5 minutes from game start if the survivors are on point and It can take a lot of time to catch somebody and get them on a hook (If you get them on a hook at all), so knockdowns are a more risky, but viable alternative when playing weaker killer kits.
You're getting more chances at playing from being knocked down than getting hooked unless your team critically fails.
Also, whether you're caught and hooked or "slugged" you have to sit out in either case. 'Unbreakable' and 'Bond' exist too, so I'm not sure what the perceived problem really is.
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