4th down = Mori
I am really getting tired cause nobody wants to be the 4th person to die cause now it is just a Mori, and it is getting very tiring. BDB needs to remove this. I have had so many game where people will try to die on the hook instead of having to deal with the Mori. Then again they will slug the 3rd person and then track the 4th down, put one on the hook and then wait for them to die just to Mori. I didn't mind the Mori every now and then, but every single match and it get tiring, and boring.
Comments
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The final survivor mori is fine, idk why people keep making such a big deal about this anyway. Not like killers weren't slugging the final 2 survivors anyway before this change.
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Totally should be removed. Should have never been made. Why is killer so special that it doesn't need an offering like survivors? They want to moir, it should cost them. The game is getting ridiculous for killers.
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There is no difference between you getting slapped up on a rusty hook than just dying to the killer. You're dead anyways. What does it matter…. They still have to use other moris if they want to pick and choose.
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a lot of survivors are probably still take it personal that they get mori'd. They could also take the hook as less of a loss, basically hook = neutral loss, mori = embarrassing defeat.
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That'd be silly.
Mori are just often faster than grabbing, bringing to hook, hooking and then waiting for the whole execution.
You mean Survivors need offerings to mori … what … ? It doesn't make sense.
Mori were rare before this. It was a waste.
Besides, if mori are becoming common, BHVR could sell additional mori animations : win win.
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I agree with op. There are definitely people who are either bored, annoyed, or who are otherwise beginning to strongly dislike moris now that they're becoming so common.
From a gameplay perspective the new mori system also provides a reward for getting a 4k without regard for how it's obtained. Any tactic to get the 4k is incentivized by the system; tunneling, camping, slugging for 4k are all rewarded by the finisher mori as long as they get all the survivors.
So there are various reasons why people have begun disliking the new mori system. In response, some people have suggested it could be good to provide the ability to skip the animation if desired through either a settings toggle or an in-game button option. Others have advocated for reverting the new mori system completely. I'd personally like to see one of these things.
As someone noted here, it's been suggested that BHVR could want to sell mori animations, and thus feel they need to make them more common to incentivize future sales. If that's something they want to do, I'd say it also should be pretty easy to just call an endgame transition function as part of the endgame mori scripting for players who want to skip the it. I think that would solve the issue where some people don't want to watch the mori for whatever reason.
Regarding the issue of incentivizing toxic playstyles, I think some serious work needs to be done to discourage play styles that make the game worse for those on the receiving end. Unless that's done, I'd say the finisher mori system is providing more negatives than positives.
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I have to disagree in my personal opinion. its a shorter animation and one that shows a unique interaction at that for each killer. In fact, I wish they sold some animations (for dirt cheap of course, considering there isnt any real gore. Kudos to MK and brethren. that and the animations aren't like state of the art animated and are generally about 7-10 seconds long)
logically speaking, if the 4th surv is downed and no one else can do anything (save for the miraculous kobe) then a mori wraps things up nicely.
I have to ask, whats so tiring about a simple animation thats faster than the total time to carry a surv to a hook, hook, wait for hook anim to complete, and then wait for 2nd hook anim to complete?10 -
I only dislike the down the second last survivor then hunt the last one like I did hate it before the change as its boring play style and in reality just waste of every ones time. Now its also those that wait for the other to die on hook to get the mori as it also wastes time. Like if they get it in normal gameplay that is fine but in the end I rarely even watch the mori even if I am the one getting moried as I have seen them so many times that there is nothing that interesting in them even when I play killer. Its like looking at the hook animation at this point. Only one I recently watched was the Dracula's new cosmetics mori because it was the first time I saw it in the match.
Can't wait for them to add more mori animations for killers so you can at least be surprised of what the mori looks like than just being the generic one for that killer.3 -
i had multiple 3rd survivor not giving up on the hook so killer has to wait for 2 entire minutes. this isnt killers fault survivors are just acting petty like they always do killer is never allowed having something fun for once
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this was the case for the 4k before this was added. It was just you got hooked instead of mori'd.
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I wouldnt be so quick to think its a petty move. I WILL struggle to the last second unless I'm trying to move onto doing something else like tv or movie or whatever.
Had someone message me the other day along the lines of "cmon hurry up dude XD" and I had to tell him like "bro I need every last bp I can get."
even if its just 200 Imma take it I dont care lmao I play way too casually to be messing around on bp gains. It's too much sht I didnt grind out yet4 -
I mean, you get 900 BP just for Struggling, it's not really for pettiness' sake
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Animation cool and provides no actual gameplay difference than without it
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The only think I hate about finisher mori is that it can denies survivor any adventage they have while slugged: Power struggle, killer drop them and they can wiggle out, etc. And all of these without hooks
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Usually I would give myself up to the Killer if it was just two of us, so my team mate could get hatch and we could all move on, but now I daren't risk it because the chance that they'll just slug me for the 4K has increased.
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I posit that you dont need an advantage for that though. its the same as getting hooked for the third time. if your time is up your time is up
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Let's say you're downed at a pallet close to gate with power struggle and flip flop as the last survivor. Before, the killer would have to either pick you up and give you a free escape, or keep you slugged for 4 minutes till you bled out. That's no good. Now the killer can just mori you, I think that's better.
Sure it makes for less "interesting" gameplay but at the same time, the game is over. Also, not being able to hook a slugged survivor is rare now that hooks respawn, but even then, unless you're slugged right next to gates, the killer could just wait until you had crawled close enough to a hook while crawling toward gate to hook you unless you were at like 90% wiggle progress. I think the mori is fine really.
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If the gate is opened or 99ed and the survivor is close enough that wiggling free would let them escape, you're not giving them a free escape by picking up. They've earned a chance to escape by getting into a situation where they're close enough to have a chance. I've definitely dropped survivors close to the gate (to get their teammates) and ended up having to choose between picking up or risking them crawling out. That doesn't mean I'm entitled to deny that player the chance they've earned to escape if they wiggle out. I have to earn it.
In that case, the mori is giving a free kill to the killer who would otherwise have to work for it. Near the gates, the survivor doesn't generally crawl near a hook. And the game isn't over for each survivor until they're on their last hook. The interaction of each survivor with the killer is different than the killer's effort to stop the team. If the killer wants to deny a survivor's abilities like that, they should have to bring an offering. I actually find those last-second chases fun, even as killer :)
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That's not true. If they're slugged underneath a pallet next to gate, you could just bleed them out for 4 minutes and you'd get a kill. As for crawling toward gate, you can't mori until the second to last person has been fully sacrificed on hook, by the time that happens you can usually crawl out or wiggle off anyway. I don't think the finisher mori makes much of a difference at all here. If you were high wiggle and the other survivor is being sacrificed, you'll wiggle out or crawl out. If you were low wiggle, you'd get hooked anyway. Finisher mori is totally fine imo and in fact it saves lots of time that would be spend being picked up and carried to hook.
Sure near gates survivors don't usually crawl toward a hook but if they're not near gates but have to crawl a bit of distance toward them, it's almost guaranteed that they will pass close enough to a hook for the killer to hook them before they wiggle off, even if they have more than 50% wiggle progress or so.
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This isn't true. If the last survivor is slugged near an open gate, you can't bleed them out. We've all been in these situations occasionally, and this update denies survivors the chance to escape in that scenario. It takes the fun out of those endgame scenarios :(
Also, the mori animations takes time, so it doesn't save much time compared with carrying to a hook.
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My point was buckle up and flip flop when it comes to bleeding someone out under a pallet. As for getting morid near gate, yeah I see your point. There are some scenarios where you could otherwise wiggle off if the killer juggled survivors a bit where you'll instead get mori'd. Sucks, but I still like the system.
It's definitely a time save though, average mori is 15 seconds, but the sacrifice animation is 15 seconds too. But, you gotta get picked up, moved to a hook, hooked and potentially go through stage 1 and 2 animations too if you're the last survivor and aren't already death hook. If we added the option to skip sacrifice animations and moris that would make the finisher mori a really nice timesave.
I think the whole "last survivor" aspect should be looked into anyway. Too many killers can't handle the last survivor getting hatch or escaping, so they desperately slug for the 4k, and I do think this has gotten worse after the finisher mori. If there was a way that the killer could end the game on their own terms after a 3k without needing to hunt down the last survivor, kind of like an official "win condition", I think people might slug less. But I guess that's a different topic. And that might be even less interactive. I don't know. Game's in a weird spot right now.
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If we may make a suggestion: Allow the mori only if end game collapse is active.
Seems like a good compromise to us, but what does the crowd think?
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Think ive only been morried once since by the last person mori thing was added.
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nah. its literally fine the way it is. might as well mori someone and then put the controller down, or just to ot mori at all unless you have a slug or two in the works as this would be a near guarantee for the others to just zoom door and escape.
hell if I started playing killer more than I'd just make a build for slugging and mori in endgame as a back up with this kind of change.0 -
Nah its fine as it is, just the usual senseless moaning. Slugging for the 4k was already incentivised if the killer cared to do it. Endgame collapse basically doesnt exist because the gates are usually 99% until escapes are about to happen. The only difference is whether you die on a hook or in a cool animation.
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It's not ment to combat slugging for the 4k, it's more to incentivise getting the killer to end the game in a more timely manner.
Since people keep slugging and then waiting just for the mori it's becoming more of a pain in the arse. With this the killer would have to go close the hatch if they want the mori that bad or the gates would need to be open for whatever reason.
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Im not saying it is, im saying changing the mechanic is pointless as it really has little effect as it is, people already will slug for a 4k if they were going to anyway, the mori is just a bonus "finisher". This also doesnt particularly incentivise the killer to end it quicker, they will STILL slug for a 4k, in fact if they really want the mori it actually just wastes even more time meeting a pointless, arbitrary requirement we don't have attached to it now.
What it does do is impact BHVRs sales if they want to monetise mori's by locking them behind a pointless restriction.
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Slugging for the 4k is probably not the best words to describe what we're trying to talk about. The effects is that more people are slugging to not risk the last survivor escaping by any means.
For example the last two down both on second hook. Killer hooks one and waits to mori instead of grabbing and hooking. We don't care about the mori and slugging for the 4k is its own thing, but we are getting annoyed by this type of scenario. Yes we get both sides are to blame but it's not the point. With our suggestion this scenario can't happen without the killer closings hatch or does being open. Those who are playing just to play will more likely go and hook to end the survivors while those slugging to mori (no those slugging to slug) need extra hoops.
Keep the mori if it matters so much but make it so you can when there's nothing else Survivors can do (granted this has its own problems) or something to stop this tedium.
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The killer is allowed to deny you your free escape… you're not entitled to it.
In your example the survivor hanging on for no reason is the one dragging the game out as well, more so than the killer tbh, don't place all the blame on the killer. Instead of trying to ruin the mori, just do anything except stare at your screen waiting? Tacking the arbitary EGC requirement onto it is just a silly suggestion that will ultimately extend your wait either way if the killer wants to mori you.
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As we said, both are to blame. To quote ourselves:
Yes we get both sides are to blame but it's not the point.
We also don't care about a "free escape", we simply want the match to end in a more timely manner. If they want the mori that bad then they also have to work for it with our suggestion via having to at minimum find hatch then slug and at worst lose the survivor via adrenaline activation. If they want to end the match quickly while not wanting to slug them on the hook the survivor goes like before. We are tired of waiting on both parties when we know we're dead.
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you'll have to explain what you mean by "waiting," as I still do not see the reason why this is a needed change. Mind you, being a pain in the arse is what comes with the territory of just losing. Like getting hooked.
to illustrate my point, if Im playing killer, and the gates are open and I catch you at the gate, I am GUARANTEED to just mori right then and there in most cases. because everyone else who happens to banking on that gate and still in trial will just run out, and mori will specifically cut off any last chance wriggle-out's on carry, DS, hook saves (so nevermind any safe unhooks postgame missions now) ect. and thats just strategically. Outside of that I wouldnt even care to try it because in your proposal it only fits nary a purpose.
I dont even see it as a nerf to killers, just an unnecessary change. Like, akin to making it so that the last survivor cant get hatch until they do 25% of a generator before it opens. That is also pointless and an extra bit of a chore for one minute thing
Personally speaking, I'm still not sold on why its needing a change because YOU got tired of it.0 -
Im speaking on personal opinion here but thats apart of the game so if I get annoyed at killers hitting me within 5 minutes of the match starting, I suppose I should suggest a change that all survivors cant be hit until 5 minutes elapses, 's what I getting from all of this.
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let’s make it so the last survivor gets to spawn a hatch at their current location. Let’s see how much killers like that.. killers get gifted everything in this simulator.
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Yet your "solution" just creates more waiting in every circumstance except when the killer doesnt care about the mori. Currently if the killer is going to hook you anyway there's no difference, you're just asking to be slugged even longer, but hey if thats what you want then by all means. Your demands for it to change are counter productive to your "issue".
And if BHVR monotise mori's, which means killers will want to use mori's more than ever, then you'll hate it even more for your making the killer "work for it"" instead of just letting them do it as is lol.
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The first thing we're going to point out is that it doesn't need the change. We are arguing if this would be a decent idea or not as the op and us and the like are tired of waiting in scenarios we've described. Necessary and convenient are different.
Seeing it as unnecessary is reasonable (this is just a thought experiment on if it would help the above situation after all)
We don't care about if the survivor has the chance to escape. In your situation we'd call it fair for the mori. The purpose is so when the game really is over, people on the dirt don't wait awhile to die. Those that want to kill just to kill will be hooking to end the game, those wanting to mori just to mori need more hoops, and those who are slugging to slug it has no effect on.
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Currently if the killer is going to hook you anyway
Thats the thing, they don't. When the finisher came live people have been leaving that 4th person waiting slugged while the 3rd person is dying slowly on hook. Now we maybe wrong but putting the 1 and 1 pieces together says to us that more are doing this because of said finisher.
…Also where have we demanded anything here?
And last if behavior monetizes moris people can bring the offering to potentially get 4. You keep bringing that up but seemed to forget that offering exists still…
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All this and yet you fail to understand that your "experience" is just that, yours, your entire argument hinges on your personal bias which equates to it really meaning nothing at all. Because in that same logic, this "issue" basically doesnt exist at all because this hasn't been my experience except a handful of times. And also just like my experience, i also just hook rather than wait for my mori if survivor 3 isnt going to let go.
You're really grasping at straws to try and use a 100% optional offerring as a basis of anything for an argument on a basekit mechanic.
The basekit mori doesnt need any change, especially not some arbitary not thought out change that will actually make it even worse for you if this is such an "issue".
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When a person makes and argument based on personal experience, it still has meaning, it just doesn't mean it's going to lead to something useful. You have an opinion based on your experience as well.
Having said that, I'm not sure this idea of restricting the finisher mori to the endgame collapse is a good idea. It seems like a strange hoop to jump through that would sometimes achieve the intended goal and sometimes not.
I do think that the finisher mori should not be awarded if the third survivor was slugged for a certain amount of time while the fourth survivor was being found. I'd also support the finisher mori only being awarded if a single survivor wasn't repeatedly chased, hooked, and eliminated before others in the early game, and only awarding it if unhooked survivors were not repeatedly chased quickly after their unhook some number of times in a match. Basically, use it to encourage nontoxic playstyles. I've seen a dramatic increase in tunneling, camping, slugging for 4k since the update and I'm really losing interest in playing the game, and I suspect I'm not the only one experiencing this. So BHVR might find it financially beneficial to handle the situation with some tweaks.
I also think the finisher mori should only be awarded once the killer has carried the last survivor to their last hook. The update has taken away the ability of the last survivor to wiggle free (especially with certain perks) and try to escape through hatch or an already open gate. And we've probably all been in situations where we've dropped survivors in the endgame collapse to prevent others from getting out. At that point if the survivor that was dropped was near enough to the gate or hatch that wiggling out could get them an escape, they've earned the chance to go for it. But the finisher mori gives killers a basekit ability to deny survivors that chance.
I also don't especially like moris anyway, but was willing to tolerate them when they were less common. I'd like to see the ability for survivors to just transition to endgame instead of of having to watch the animation now that they happen much more frequently. That wouldn't impact sales if BHVR decides to sell mori animations in the future since killers would still get to see their mori.
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So just so we're clear, your going to try and dismiss our experience because you're not experiencing it in the same quantities?
You also seem to be missing the points in a couple of places. So first, the offering is in response to your worries about monetization. If they want moris more than ever why wouldn't they bring the offering to see it 4 times a match. That's not even getting at those who go for quad moris.
Second you said you hook rather than wait for the mori, the point of our suggestion is to try and get people to behave like that.
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Please, go play killer for a LONG while, then come back and type the same thing.
Before the mori stuff I usually don't gift survivors with a free exit, 'cause when the match goes wrong for me as a killers, survivors leave me nothing, just waiting at the the exit for tbagging.
In my opinion (i'll try to not be offensive) survivor players only are just spoiled. Explore the game from both sides (consistently), you'll see the game in a different light, trust me.
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I think most people here are playing both killer and survivor. There are definitely squads that will give killers a challenge, but I really find killer is a much easier role than survivor.
And as killer, I generally see very little toxic or bm behavior from survivors. I barely ever see teabagging at gates, and I find teabags at pallets are usually just a method to get on your nerves with the survivor hoping to get you to tunnel and thinking they're really good in chase.
Until you get to top levels of talent, I'd say Killers are given more than survivors by far.
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If 2 are dead with the third on hook in 2nd phase, the killer should not have to wait until the third is sacrificed to mori the last one.
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Not dismiss, just pointing out that any "issues" you might have are personal and don't represent any state of the game in any way. Certainly not to any extent that a perfectly fine mechanic needs counter productive changes.
I'm not missing the point, but you're veering off the topic of the basekit mori to continue your argument, which is pretty indicative of not having a counter point. While people need BP 99% of people arent going to be running a mori offering, making that a moot point.
Yes, im one of the killers who isnt interested in waiting for a survivor to drag out their death on hook, im not particularly bias for or against the mori, it's just a bonus if i dont have to wait more than it takes to hook, which cant be said of you in this argument. The thing you're missing is you can't really change people's behaviour in significant degress, if they want to mori they will mori. Adding restrictions onto it just makes your "issues" worse and the killers experience worse for no real gain.
A great example of confirmation bias is the so called "slugging epidemic", where ive experienced virtually no slugging except tactical slugging. Nothing has changed yet people are claiming otherwise. Just like you are seeing this as an issue and im not, and there's certainly no comparison between this "issue" and the "slugging issue" in terms of people moaning about it so it really shows is not a problem at all.
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We didn't get a ping for this one and just saw this.
Certainly not to any extent that a perfectly fine mechanic needs counter productive changes.
We have stated why we think it could use tweaking. If you don't think they are enough reason that is fine, but we have stated multiple times.
While people need BP 99% of people arent going to be running a mori offering, making that a moot point.
We're unsure as to where the BP reasoning came from as the offering is to literally see the mori multiple times. That trail of thought was in response to your worries about if bhvr wanted to monetize moris. If people want to see the mori and not jump through hoops, they have the option of said offering.
you're missing is you can't really change people's behaviour in significant degress, if they want to mori they will mori. Adding restrictions onto it just makes your "issues" worse and the killers experience worse for no real gain.
Depends on whos definition of significant. As the new mori system has changed it enough that its significant by our definition, we feel it can be changed that same degree via this. Will it actually work? Who knows, but we'd like something to change. Hell make it so if everyone else is on hook the mori can go right away.
A great example of confirmation bias is the so called "slugging epidemic", where ive experienced virtually no slugging except tactical slugging. Nothing has changed yet people are claiming otherwise. Just like you are seeing this as an issue and im not, and there's certainly no comparison between this "issue" and the "slugging issue" in terms of people moaning about it so it really shows is not a problem at all.
That would be your own experience then. Read some of the above such as Wezqu and in General chat Laluzi made a thread that has a more…eloquent[?] explaining of our thoughts. Theres some saying about if you don't see it it doesn't exist but none of us can remember.
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Yeah i thought the mods nuked my post tbh because it disappeared for me. Weird.
Anyway looks like we're just going to go back and forth on this so we can agree to disagree as im not going to drag this on. Ultimately forum posters are always a minority of players so anyone posting their experience isn't giving a remotely accurate assessment of how the game actually is for anyone but themselves(even then people lie and exaggerate all the time). For everyone posting that X or Y is "rampant" or an "issue" there could be 1000 people who have no real change to their general games.
People already slugged for 4k's the mori barely changed anything in the grand scheme of things, those who will slug will do so, those who don't really care won't do it, or do it opportunistically (most of the time its survivors basically handing them the slug anyway). People are prone to confirmation bias to back up whatever thing they are moaning about at the end of the day.
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This cool animation people keep preaching about, more like stale and outdated its not every animation is just 5 seconds some are so long and just unnecessary dragged out like chuckies.
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This. Idk why people came out the woodwork to complain about the new mori system causing killers to slug for finisher mori. They've been doing that. It's not more prevalent cause of the changes. They've been doing that. If someone wants a 4k, they're gonna get a 4k. It doesn't matter about the built in cypress mori. It doesn't matter about anything as long as the killer wants a 4k. Stop complaining about it.
Better yet do something about it if it's such a problem. There's perks that facilitate finding hatch like clairvoyance, left behind, low profile, and others. Bring an endgame item like an iri map or iri key so you can find hatch or open it if it's closed. There's so much complaining on here bout the new mori. It's ridiculous. It ain't that serious bruh.
If you're that frustrated, go play something else. Works for me.
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I think it's valid for people to complain if they see something they don't like in the game. It makes sure BHVR has a chance to hear and adjust to all our concerns if things get too prevalent :)
And personally, I've seen a much less fun experience as survivor after the update as well. Lots more use of tunneling, camping, and slugging for 4k recently. My matches as killer are essentially unaffected by the update since I don't use moris :D
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What does it matter. You suffer an extremely short animation or you suffer a walk to hook and hook animation. Either way the game is over why not let the mori happen?
The truely boring thing here is the amount of complaints moris get.
Honestly now every complaint i see is just someone crying because they lost the game and had to endure a few second animation. If you hate it that much DC and take a longer time out which means we see less of those types of players in the game.
The new mori system hasn't changed how games are played and 4 man slugging is not how you get a mori and hasn't come about because of this new system.If i had to guess the ONLY reason base kit mori is in the game is because BHVR has plans to sell cosmetic mori animations in the store. Which I will certainty buy if they are decent
The way i see it is this.Survivors are crying on the forums about this mori because killers are "being toxic" with it so i will tell you all what killers are told when they complain about tbags at the exit gate. Get over it its just a game and it doesn't matter.
Don't like the game don't play the game it really is that simple because the crux of it is there are plenty of people who will continue to play this game regardless of the changes because they treat it as a bit of fun and if your not having fun then don't play it.
I wish sometimes that everyone who threatens to "leave the game for good" on the forums actually did and didn't come back because eventually the community would just be filled with those who want to just play the game and not sit and complain about it.0 -
I see. In that case I'd offer up a different change. for me, there wouldn't be a change to second-to-last survivor as that is a matter of choice on both ends as to what happens when the game has reached that point, but for any scenarios after it wouldnt hurt to have a timer that shortens any interaction once the game is said and done. Similar to endgame collapse, if there's no one with self pick up available and everyone's down, the bleedout timer could just be cut to like 5 or 10 seconds unless the killer interacts with them (picking up to pause and hook as well as sufficient time allotted from hook to possible second pickup)
This cuts all the fluff out. same as when you hook the last survivor and all current hooks auto terminate
I feel as though we should take care of the unnessary slugging but leave mori alone. even though I main survivor, I still feel slightly guarded over the mori because with the new Drac it feelsl ike we are seeing a new opportunity to spice up mori's. I dont want to detract from the value of mori if in the near future we'd be getting some fun animations we could invest in. (lol heck no im not paying 30 dollars for a mori so lets get that out of the way NOW.)
new mori's and such as a custom option could also be incentive to brush up oon the dev's animation skills too, since we wont be getting any real gore0
