Please just remove the trap door or make survivors have to last endgame to escape
I play unknown map vs swf 3k at 1 gen after a very long match. The doors were so spread I didn’t even bother doing the full back and forth. I see the red light on the gate and didn’t budge. They wonder why killers stand on the trap door.
Comments
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Dont play for the 4k. You realized that skill isnt really involved in the hatch/gate-game, so dont bother wasting your lifetime.
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Why are killers so inclined to get their 4k?
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3k is still a win
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It is alright for the last one to escape, a 3k is already a win.
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This is very solid advise and so true, BUT in the case of bully SWFs you can bet that the one who escapes will rub it in in the most devious and painful way, claiming that the killer didn't win at all, because they escaped yadda yadda yadda.
Most of the time I can just ignore such non-sense, but not gonna lie, some games that survivor made your life SO hard and got under your skin and seeing them escape and mock you can be pretty painful, even if you are mostly levelheaded, BUT in the end, the best is just to try to ignore it and don't let it affect you.
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thank you!
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Why are survivors so inclined to get all 4 survivors out when 3 are standing in the exit gate?
If you have already won, but you can win more, people generally prefer the more satisfying win.
This is true, but thats also a player's personal prioritization due to the nature of the game. Its like how there is no clear answer on escaping via hatch, since some call it a win since their personal wincon is specifically about surviving, not necessarily the MMR based one (leaving via the gate only.)
People who play for the 4K are doing nothing wrong with that act alone, just like survivors who play for the 4E. How either side gets there is the more relevant discussion imo.
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How either side gets there is the more relevant discussion imo.
I agree, but I think it is good to remember that 3k is a good result.
Maybe it isn't the more satisfying win, but the killer isn't walking away with a defeat if they get a 3k.
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it technically is. Hatch isn't a win for the one that uses it MMR wise.
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I honestly see it as a win.
If I escape I've won, that has always been my win condition as survivor.
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3k might be a win but 4k is a better win, why not go for it
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that’s what people don’t understand lol
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I had killers who was salty someone loop them for all gens and only got a 1k ( the looper) and wanna tell the looper how they are bad and have no skill and they abuse this and that yadda yadda and they ( killer) won the game umm yeah sure you did while 3 others has escape portraits.
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If the hatch was removed, the final Survivor could just go and play hide & seek for the next goodness knows how many minutes and prolong a game to a ridiculous length.
Besides that, it does offer a dramatic endingbto the game, which I enjoy as both Killer and Survivor.
The Hatch should stay, both for gameplay and logical reasons.
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Well, yeah, we got some salty, angy people on both sides of the spectrum, not gonna lie. But right now we were talking about the hatch and how a hatch escape SHOULD be rather irrelevant, as the killer as by all accounts won at this point, but how it sometimes can still feel as a loss, aspecially if the pesky tormenter of the game escapes and rubs it in.
The game really has a way of getting under ones skin, but as I said, best advise is to just harden to this and take it with a chuckle and move on - killer got their 3K and that hatch was just luck, no skill involved whatsoever.
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The hatch is a mechanic that was put in place so the survivors would still be able to do something instead of hiding when they've basically lost.
The EGC is to push them out.
It's luck-based and essentially a pity-prize but it's needed to avoid more miserable game-play.
These mechanics have to stay.
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Just don't bet your family on the 4k, its just a game
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Hatch sucks but others have explained why it should stay gameplay-wise. What baffles me is how much you guys care about the survivor escaping through it considering it a win. Who cares what they think? As killer, I see it as my win and their loss and that's it. Idgaf what they think. And what's more, if by escaping through hatch they feel some sort of accomplishment which makes them happy and encourages them to keep playing the game instead of feeling frustrated, more power to them tbh. In a way, we all win actually!
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Nobody was talking about a 4-man escape. Dont change the subject for no reason.
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Are you purposely missing the point? It was being used as a relative example, I.E. winning vs winning more.
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Not at all. Maybe you start imagining things.
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Asking the devs to remove a game mechanic to ensure you 4K every single match is peak killer main logic. 🤣🤣🤣 You’re not entitled to a 4K every single match.
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no I would say it’s more like remove the pity escape option more than everything else. Why wouldn’t you wanna loop at killer in order to escape? That should be there instead of the hand holding trap door.
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now hatch is hand holding apparently
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When I've killed the second to last survivor, and the hatch has spawned, my stomach sinks immediately. I begin sweating and my hands begin shaking. Then when the hatch spawns, the longer I search for it, I begin hyperventilating and my tears prick my eyes as I dread the intense distress I will feel as the last survivor stands on top of hatch and taunts me in front of everyone spectating. And it's worse the longer I search, that horrible uncertainty of not knowing if they've found it or not makes me want to vomit, I feel my stomach churning the longer I look for hatch. And if I see them on top of hatch, I just break down crying. I can't even muster to walk up and hit them to get them to leave, I just cry. Luckily, most people just jump in, but some players don't and it's so painful I want to tear my hair out and scream at the top of my lungs to make the pain go away. Sometimes I do.
But if I do manage to find and close hatch first, my torment is still not over… Because then I have to try and stop them from opening gates, which is almost even worse, especially if the gates are obscured. I feel myself panicking the longer EGC has gone on, second guessing my every checkup on each gate, wondering if the survivor has managed to outsmart me with every time I walk from one gate to the other, unsure if they've already opened the gate and are simply waiting for me to rub it in and tbag me. Once it reaches that point, if I notice a survivor standing there at that open gate, it takes every fiber of my being not to DC, but I have to stay strong. So I try to distract myself as the EGC slowly runs out, while my hands and sometimes my whole body shake and I try to calm myself down, telling myself it'll all be over in just a few minutes.
So I usually slug for the 4k instead.
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Why are survivors so inclined to get all 4 survivors out when 3 are standing in the exit gate?If they're standing in the exit gate, how are they helping the fourth survivor?
If you have already won, but you can winmore,people generally prefer the more satisfying win.If this was just in a vacuum, sure. But its not and we have to look at what it is happening as a game that is meant to be fun.
In the 4k scenario, the killer is searching the map while one survivor is staying behind a rock or hiding in a locker and the other survivor is on the ground for up to 4 minutes. Very few people seem to be having fun in this scenario.
Now take the 4e scenario. The killer has a survivor on hook and is waiting for the others to rush in. There's probably some boredom initially as the survivors heal up, but otherwise you still have a game. The survivors are trying to bait out the killer while the killer is trying to draw them into a mistake.
On top of that, the survivors are engaging in 'risk'. If they mess up the rescue, or there is a NOED in play (or a much less likely blood warden), they could lose out on more than they hoped to gain. That makes it exciting and fun. With the 4k there's virtually no risk slugging.
So one activity is still a game that carries risk and engages players on both sides, while the other is a riskless activity where not much happens and one player is effectively trapped.
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If you got a 3k, you won. Even if the last survivor escapes through the hatch, you still won regardless. A 4k essentially is just rubbing salt in the wound and overkill. That's generally why I always let the last hatch out. What's the point in killing the 4th off? They know they lost. Let people get some extra bp for the match. Now, the exceptions for me are if they were toxic/cheating or if I have some challenge that I need to be done.
Long story short, don't view it was losing out on a kill that last kill doesn't matter - you already won with a 3k.
That being said, if you didn't 3k and hatch spawned because other survivors already escaped through the gate, then yeah, that sucks.
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This is very poetic; like, it's well written. But do some of those things actually happen to you in those situations or is this an exaggeration?
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This is the best thinking in my opinion :)
Personally, I like hatch as a mechanic from both the killer and survivor sides, but in any case, if more than one player enjoys the match at the end, I think that's the best outcome. If the killer has a 3k, they have a good match already. If the survivor has a way how they can feasibly get out at the endgame, they get to have fun until the match is over, even if the killer finds them and takes a 4k.
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i just close hatch and teleport between gates *if dredge*
if any other killer i move as fast as i can and pray
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why take a 5-10 minute 3k match and consistently increase the length by possibly half every game by wasting everybody's time with a pointless 2v1?
Hatchescapes mean nothing. Hatch is just the games " going into time" just for the sake of us all moving on with our lives, because humans have a finite lifespan.
At some point it becomes a joke.
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Because they beat all 4 survivors, not just 3. Them doing gens in just enough time to get 1 out through gates is different. But with hatch, 5 gens could be left, and 1 still escapes. That's called a forced outcome. Imagine if instead, the killer could find and step on a certain spot in a map, and a survivor automatically gets sacrificed. That's basically what hatch is.
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Are there killers out there that don't realize that the hatch exists for them just as much as for survivors? It is there to end the game in a timely manner. Just like the end game collapse. I remember when the end game collapse didn't exist and hatch worked very differently. It suuuuuuuuucked. Be grateful that they made the changes they made. Your ego will survive if you only get 3 kills occasionally.
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There are killers here who believe the game should end at a 2K with the remaining survivors auto sacrificed… or downed I guess so they can get their finisher mori.
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If they're standing in the exit gate, how are they helping the fourth survivor?I guess I should be more clear. I was referring to scenarios where 3 survivors are safe and can escape with zero risk, but they instead choose to save the 4th to get them out as well instead of just taking the win right away. The argument was regarding why killers would ever want to secure the 4k when a 3k is already a win, so it was creating a relative parallel. Guess I should have worded it better.
That said, I disagree with your argument separating the two. While you are right that survivors are generally not having fun during the slug scenario, if the killer is losing badly and just wants to secure one kill at the end of the game, they are probably having as much fun as the slug/hider. While its certainly true that it can be a more dynamic experience, that doesn't rule out the scenarios where they would rather just be done with the match.
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I think there's a subtlety here about survivor success conditions vs killer success conditions. Survivors tend to have a more binary condition for winning/losing in their matches. If I escape by any means, it's a win for me in my mind. But if I get sacrificed, it's a loss. So for each survivor, getting sacrificed is a worse outcome than not being sacrificed.
Generally, I don't see survivor escapes as a team success, but as a set of individual successes. I know when I stick around and risk it all for the last survivor, I'm not looking for a bigger win for the survivor side; I'm trying to give my teammate a condition that's not a loss. It's not even about competing with the killer, but more, just making sure my teammate gets a chance at a good outcome. That outlook also means I'll be happy to swap hooks with my teammate if they get out :)
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3k is a win.
Don't waste your life time camping the hatch.
If you have personal reasons or a 3k detracts from your well-being, you should consider using “no way out” to increase your chances to get the 4k.
Anyway, if getting just a 3k doesn't affect your well-being -> congratulations, you're in a good mental state.3 -
Pure exaggeration lmao. Though I'm not really a fan of hatch since it incentivizes playing really selfish as survivor or sweating for the 4k as killer. If I've downed the second to last survivor I rarely bother slugging for the 4k unless I already know where the last survivor is and it's convenient to go get them.
I think some changes could be made to the final 1v1 though, so it would be less boring and RNG. I personally wouldn't mind as killer if I could challenge the last survivor to a little 1v1. Like, once 3 survivors are dead, sure hatch would still spawn. But the killer could also instead challenge the last survivor to a final chase, and if they accept, all pallets respawn, the survivor becomes healthy and not exhausted, and you get a cool little final chase on a 2 minute timer. If the survivor lasts 2 minutes they get an escape, if not they get killed, but either way the killer and survivor both get a nice BP bonus for participating.
If the survivor doesn't accept, the game just ends without killing the last survivor or having them escape, like a "tie" of sorts, but the killer gets a decent BP bonus since they technically "won" in the 1v1 since the survivor forfeited. I do feel like since there's no real win condition that tells you "you won", many killers don't feel like they've truly won until they kill all 4 survivors. Maybe a system like this could help with that. Something has to change at least, I think people are right about that.
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But in 2 v 1 situations the survivors still hide when they basically lost. I had a match tonight where they did 2 gens. 3 gens remaining, 2 survivors remaining.... What did they do? They hid for nearly 30min. So if this situation exists with the hatch being available for last survivor then why not remove it entirely? At least not give survivors a reason to hide for so long in 2 v 1 situations
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Do yourself a favour and be like this: fun > getting 4k
You will see that the game will become a lot less frustrating if you see it that way.
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What’s wrong with doing the back and forth between exit gates with Unknown? He can teleport which is advantageous. You could even mind game and pretend to walk away far enough for your terror radius to leave one gate then immediately teleport back with a well placed and hidden husk and catch the last survivor off guard.
Hatch is needed for those solo players who actually played the game and tried their best, but had terrible teammates. Solo que is already a miserable experience; at least let them have an opportunity to get out. It’s a 50/50 and not considered a win for them if they use it. All they are doing is escaping. These days I rather bet the farm by letting the killer find it and wait at an exit gate. I’ll take my chances trying to mind game the first exit light or go all out and stay on the exit switch while hoping the the hatch was far away and the killer checks the other door first.
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The key point is to give hope to survivors.
The problem with the ones hiding should be fixed by forcing interaction after a while (aura, instinct, whatever the devs decide is best)
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Wouldn't it be better if the killer won as soon as the hatch is closed? The End Game Collapse after the hatch is closed always feels like wasted time.
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Because survivors need yet another chance to escape, so the exits get powered for free. Or, if the gens have already been done and then there's 1 person left, the killer has to patrol 2 exits AND hatch.
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Survivors by design constraints of the game don’t get to loop the Killer for 5 gens unless the Killer is really, really bad. (Killers are faster than survivors, window block, bloodlust, depletion of chase resources). Nor can they all expect to escape even if they do fairly well.
Killer by design constraints of the game isn’t guaranteed a 4K even if they do exceptionally well.
I think this is a decent balance. (Though I do find the hatch experience itself rather lacking in player interaction).
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Hi, just a reminder to keep topics constructive and on topic. Thank you!
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Be that as it may, I think if you take the killer on a 2 gen chase, which can be as easy as looping shack til pallet drop and 1-2 filler pallet drops, that's a game-losing chase for pretty much anyone bar Nurse/Blight. But it's unfortunate that you rarely see that, even as a really good survivor player, because MMR shoehorns bad teammates into your match. Meaning, the killer can be half-decent at best and still beat you, because it's supposed to be a 4v1, and it was forced into a 2v1. MMR only works well enough so that the highest caliber of killers get put with the highest of survivor teams, which is 90% of the time a loss by default for anyone not Nurse/Blight. That causes killers to quit or switch role, forcing those overpowered survivor teams to go against less and less experienced killers, and makes MMR work that much harder to create solo queue teams which are constructed to fail. I don't think the devs have realized what they've created with that.
Killers not getting a 4k after beating the whole team, I can live with. I'd just hope that after the game's major balance issues get sorted, and especially the MMR, that hatch would be addressed. In a vacuum, it is kind of dumb that the survivors lost, but through luck of the draw, whoever is the last standing has a random insta-escape button spawn on the ground.
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That's another reason I don't like the mechanic. But I don't think it's going away anytime soon.
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Gates spawn randomly.
Sometimes they can be one in front of the other or at least in such a position that both can be easily controlled, other times it is a little more complicated.
Moreover, there are killers who have no difficulty even in the latter case because of their high-mobility, same goes for the hatch.
"They wonder why killers stand on the trap door." seems to me to be too childish and unnecessary honestly and it is a mechanic that must exist for obvious reasons.
If you don't agree, good luck and enjoy sitting still on the hatch for 60 minutes because you are too entitled to your useless 4k.1 -
You can still camp/trade at least one survivor if a single chase “loses you the whole game”, maintaining an interactive loop before whatever the result of that is. (Though I can’t off the top of my head recall if some anti-tunnel perks need a once-over to deactivate once the exit gate switches are powered, instead of once the EGC starts).
Far as your MMR thing goes, if survivor comments prove anything, it’s that good survivors are mostly placed against high performing Killers from the MMR system anyway, and if that player was skilled enough to be placed against a group of survivors despite not bringing a “high-tier” killer, it’s because the players skill was good enough even with that Killer. (Basing this on complaints of some survivors that they only see Nurses, Blights, etc.) So burnout isn’t too much a concern. (Apart from lobby dodging screwing with queues)2
