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Tired of all the complaining against killers
Comments
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OP sorry you're fighting a losing battle here. Remember a majority of the player base plays survivor, and a many of those players have never even attempted to play killer. So don't be surprised when (predictably) you get a bunch of responses claiming how easy it is to win as killer, even at higher MMR, without ever camping or tunning from players who would get destroyed if they ever actually attempted to play as killer.
This isn't intended to be the usual "us vs. them" trolling - it's simply pointing out that many players come onto this forum offering opinions on something they have zero first-hand experience with.
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You cant be serious. This is all soo far away from the truth, its totally outstanding. Before claiming something, get some info on that first to prevent making yourself untrustworthy by having no argument to base your claims on. Or read that those false calls have been corrected hundreds of times. I just see here some really biased killer trying to twist reality.
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I pretty much only play survivor. In those rare instances I get paired with 3 other survivors that are at least decent at the game and trying to escape there is an extremely high chance at least 2, if not all 4, are going to escape. The problem is it only takes 1 survivor that either a) sucks at the game, b) is not playing to escape, or c) only playing to intentionally sabotage the other survivors for the chances of even 1 person escaping to be practically zero.
I don't know if there is any way to create any balance with that. Good teams of survivors, whether solo or SWF are a formidable foe for the majority of killers. The biggest issue on the solo survivor side is that you get paired with at least one of the survivors mentioned above in nearly every match.
I hate that it's that way. Even as a survivor main that plays more solo queue than anything else I still say the biggest issue with playing survivor in this game isn't that killers are too strong. It's that there are way way too many survivors that either suck or who don't play with the objective to escape.2 -
or spine chill
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But I have to carry some kind of glyph into the basement ;)
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I admittedly carry glyphs in the basement at times. You would think maybe they could come up with challenges that didn't require doing things that are basically counterproductive to the objectives, but I can at least understand in those situations.
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It’s been my impression, that as someone replied, most player base seem to play survivor and don’t have experience as killers.
In countless occasions I been clear in not making this debate killers vs survivors. I am not trying to nerf survivors nor I’m trying to buff killers, I’m saying that if the company decides to attend slugging, camping and tunneling, they also have to address the current state of things.
Strategies emerge after countless of tries, practice and effort, currently, with the perks, objectives needed to escape and skill level of players, killers have to sometimes utilize these tactics to win, specially against good groups.
Like I previously said, no one that mains killer sits at home and decides that he is going to destroy the survivor experience by utilizing tactics that the community defines as toxic. You get what you can and you adapt during game.
If I get into my first chase and after the first hit two gens pop, I need to do something to try to win. If by the time I get a hook they need only 2 gens I might need to slug one or at least keep an eye on hook to at least trade. Im not promoting slugging or camping or tunneling, hell, as you can see by my avatar, I main Sadako, one of the weaker killers that’s has the redeeming factor of not needing to get into chases all the time nor camp on hook.
I mentioned competitive as an example to at least inspire a little bit of empathy towards the other side of things, you might feel bad if you get tunneled or slugged but, that coin has another side, which is another person that is also trying to enjoy his gameplay and aim to win.
I think that there are ways to solve these issues, but I rather leave the game as it is, because “buffs” consist in crunching numbers instead of visiting actual issues with the current state of perks, gens and killers.Just look what they did with this update.
Btw the argument of stats that favor Killers 60/40 has a lot of variables and facts you need to consider.
Every survivor in trial has a 40% chance of escaping. The killer, to win the game, needs to beat those 40% odds, three times (to actually manage a 3k).
Also survivors can be crunched together because they are basically re skins. Killers are not created equal, there are clear strong and weak killers yet the stats puts them in the same bowl.
So basically there’s a chance that for example, Dracula win rate is carrying Trapper, so on.Post edited by Vishlumbra on2 -
Thing is majority of playerbase consist of survivor mains and the funniest thing is they still refuse to admit that most of the time when they end up sacrificed is because a fellow survivor teammate who was not doing the job right, threw the game or their own misplay.
Instead of asking for better report system where griefers and trolls get punished or simply improving their own skill they ask for the constant streak of nerfs so their experience will become even more enjoyable with less effort involved for them, without understanding that they make their own game more miserable because killers also want to have fun and win and when there's less options left for killers, they will start opting for the most efficient and less demanding strategies, which often are tunneling someone out asap or proxy camping.
People who still think killer is easy role should stop complaining and switch to killer instead. Once they play their ''qualification'' matches which are between 10 - 50, they will start getting competent survivors as opponents and see what it's like to play against a team that is efficient and doesn't waste time or do stupid things. Perhaps then they will realize how things are on the other side.
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You should change killer and survivor in your post, than it would be more true.
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Nope, I stand behind my words.
I used to be Killer Main for many years but then I started playing Solo Q Survivor too.
Most of the time in my games there is always someone who either gives up on the first hook, trolls by running around and doing everything else but not repairing gens or clearly co-operating with killer. Stuff like this is the major reason why kill rates are so inflated. Solo Q experience right now is horrible mostly because of SoloQ team mates and not because killers try to win their game. You can't blame other side for trying to do their job but you can certainly blame a team mate who's performance can impact the survivability of the rest of the team so much.
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I really dont see why my post has becomed a battle against comp, or killers or trying to protect survivors. I am advocating for leaving the game as it is without implementing more nerfs.As Rulebreaker said, you brought it up. If you bring up something to use as evidence people are going to look at it and analyze other factors and reasons why it doesn't actually support you.
To have a discussion you have to engage with those points. If someone says 'here why comp doesn't support your argument', you can't just ignore it and still have a discussion.
Same could be said of a bad billy or blight, yet those lists are based on a good skill and performance from above avarage players, how come when it comes to the macro game, that goes out of the window and you all just try to demerit every argument I give.A big debate on killer tier lists is whether they should be factored as general playstyles or on absolute levels. Also tier lists are just that, general discussions about the ranks of killers. If you're discussing the overall health of the game, then we need to discuss the overall health of the game.
I am not fighting against anyone, I am not the one that makes dozens of posts every single day crying about slugging or camping or tunneling,It harms your argument to say that you aren't fighting and then immediately point out people as "crying".
I am trying to make people understand that those are needed strategiesAnd people disagree with you and have given a lot of reasons why.
Dont you think there are toxic survivor strategies?Yes, of course there are.
Should we nerf those perks because it feels bad for the killer? No. It is fine.Um, yeah, we should, and BHVR does. Unhookable survivors due to boil over has led to hooks being placed on upper floors (which at times creates its own problems). Buckle up + FTP got demolished, Made for This, etc.
Things that are overpowered or create boring/unfun scenarios should be addressed. Now what is unfun, overpowered, etc. and how to address them are complicated questions, but yes, they should be looked at.
If survivors played with 0 altruism, they would win wayyyyyyy moreIt depends what you mean by win, which is not defined by BHVR and different people use different definitions.
I am saying that if we are suggesting eliminating current meta tactics for killers, we have to talk about creating a healthy balance and visit killers powers and current state of hooks, generators etc.The problem is you're just posting into a vacuum. Every person has different ideas on what they want adjusted, how they want it adjusted, etc. You're just grouping everyone together arguing for change and presuming they're making an extreme one sided change. If you think a particular person's suggestions wouldn't work, respond in their thread with how and why.
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It’s been my impression, that as someone replied, most player base seem to play survivor and don’t have experience as killers.Well it's just not true.
While there are always new members of the forums, most people who post have a fair bit of experience with the game. Very few people play one side exclusively.
If I get into my first chase and after the first hit two gens pop, I need to do something to try to win. If by the time I get a hook they need only 2 gens I might need to slug one or at least keep an eye on hook to at least tradeWhen people complain about slugging, this, generally speaking, is not what they are complaining about.
I mentioned competitive as an example to at least inspire a little bit of empathy towards the other side of things, you might feel bad if you get tunneled or slugged but, that coin has another side, which is another person that is also trying to enjoy his gameplay and aim to win.And here is what you're missing about comp. A killer can, if they wish, immediately adopt the camp/tunnel tactic (outside the hook face camps). All you have to do is make the decision you want to play that way and then practice. For survivors to be on the level of a survivor comp team, that survivor needs to seek out three other people who are good at the game and they need to practice playing as a group.
So if we're going to have empathy, look at how easily it is for the killer to adopt those tactics if he wishes, and how much more difficult it is for survivor players.
Every survivor in trial has a 40% chance of escaping. The killer, to win the game, needs to beat those 40% odds, three times (to actually manage a 3k).1: As I mentioned earlier, win conditions are something we create as a community.
2: That's a mangling of statistics. The survivor escape chances are not independent games. If you manage to "beat" (kill) one survivor, the chances of you getting a second one increase substantially. If you kill that survivor, the chances of you getting the third survivor increase even more.
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Win by behavior definition is 3 kills at least. That will rise your MMR, 2 keeps it as it is and 1 or none is a lost game. That’s not a community definition, it’s how the game and developers handle your MMR.
Also you completely disregarded a big point, that is that the stats are not considering the diverse powers and playstyle of each killer. Facing a Trapper is not the same as facing a Nurse, yet the stats are mixed together.I have tried to come to a middle ground where all I am asking is that if a lot of people regard slugging and camping and tunneling as toxic, we should also be able to question why those strategies exist in the first place and by consequence, attend both sides equally. If they disappear completely, a few changes would have to be implemented so killers stay roughly with the same power they have today.
The worrying part is that balance ain’t happening fairly, the developers consider a buff chopping a second from an ability, where there are killers that requiere a deeper look to actually leave the bottom tier.
But well, I am done with this topic, I think there’s a few good points made but what I learned is that there’s no middle ground, is either you all win and completely intend to disregard absolutely everything I say or you won’t feel good. Kinda like survivors do. Peace.
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Every survivor in trial has a 40% chance of escaping. The killer, to win the game, needs to beat those 40% odds, three times (to actually manage a 3k).
No. This is just terrible "forums math" yet again. These are not statistically independent events. Once one survivor dies, the chances of other survivors escaping drops tremendously.
The killer does not need to "best those odds" multiple times. This isn't even a random chance either, since there are humans actively trying to influence the outcome. Skill, teamwork, map RNG, and a host of factors go into it, and not just some percentage.
And even with all that, once the first survivor dies, the other kills get vastly easier.
But well, I am done with this topic, I think there’s a few good points made but what I learned is that there’s no middle ground, is either you all win and completely intend to disregard absolutely everything I say
You're entitled
to your opinion, of course, but you've said things in this post from the very beginning that make several things clear:
You likely haven't played many, if any survivor games. This isn't a contrast of different experiences you've had, you just want your killer games to be easier, and any obstacle to face rolling to victory appears to be considered "wildly imbalanced" for some reason.
Your game knowledge is either completely wrong, or wildly out of date. You actively complain about things that were nerfed already, and many of those having been nerfed or changed years ago. So that alone makes it sound like you're arguing for changes to 2018 DbD, which already doesn't exist anymore.
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How many times do I have to write that I don’t want nerfs or buffs? I want them to leave it alone. But! If they actually did something like to completely remove the possibility of slugging or tunneling or camping (Which is the most constant complain on forums everyday) I think they should also question why we got to this point and act accordingly.
I play survivor about 50% and killer 50% I play both roles and there are issues with the current game and gen speed. Really dude, no one plays killer? Most killers every game need corrupt intervention so they don’t lose the game in the first 2 mins. One chase and you lost 2 or 3 gens? One chase. You never had a group of 3 guys with repair boxes , kindred, built to last etc? You chase one and in the meantime you lost 3 gens by the time you get one hook. It’s not a skill issue, it’s not that I am taking forever to down one, it’s because with toolboxes and add ons and such, gens fly.
The problem with this is that if you are playing killer to WIN, which I think most of us aspire to, either being survivor or killer, we end up in a tough spot and also hurts the gameplay and perk choices we have. We need to find ways to slow down the game.The game felt better during Halloween event because people had extra objectives, it was fun, it was rewarded with blood points and you actually had different objectives as survivor. The game slowed down a bit.
I am not contradicting your logic that the game becomes easier exponentially as you kill survivors, but also, the 40% escape rate is a fallacy because it’s not considering that there are 4 people with such odds facing a single killer. Sure their chances drop after each kill, (Yet the high chance of escaping through hatch is always present) but also the survive rate and overall win percentage of survivors is higher than what it seems to be. Also the killer percentage is mixed between every killer, not all killers have the same play rate, not all killers have the same chance to win.
I wish the game could be a bit slower and give us extra objectives to mess around.
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A majority of the player base ... has never tried to play killer.
That's a rather extraordinary claim. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
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I feel you.
Yesterday I was slugged EVERY game enough to fill the bar up. Most of it was slug and seek for the mori. This game is lazy killer sided.
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“I was slugged when I already lost the game, the killer aspired for the best result so I’m offended that he didn’t gamble giving me hatch.”
Everyone here. Yawn.
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Sounds like when I started playing.
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That's not really a good interpretation of the hatch mechanic. It ignores the entire purpose of hatch and the impact that both hatch and the workaround to get an easy kill in spite of hatch do.
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Easy kill? Ok so, you have 2 survivors remaining, let’s say 1 gen left and is kinda a 3 gen set up. Both guys on dead hook. I find one and I slug him to find the other one and secure a 4K. That survivor I’m looking has options you know?
If I’m camping the slugged one, the other one can finish gen and pressure me into leaving the guy on the ground, he could hide and maybe could get him up. (Maybe the downed survivor has unbreakable?)
I can risk hooking and basically secure a 3k but risk loosing a 4K, since he has time to look for hatch while I am hooking. He gets to hatch and waits there till I go look for it, he mocks me, escapes and insults me and mocks me during after match chat.
He could hide and bleed out his buddy so he secures hatch. Same thing, so he can make fun of me at hatch and then in chat.
He can hide and wait for the guy to be hooked or die, he has key so he positions himself to open hatch after I close it.
I get to hatch, I camp it so he has to ask for it. He hates me so he finishes last gen and aims to stealth to one of the two doors.I get to hatch, I camp it and he hides till I’m tired of waiting, he is not repairing gen so he waits till I close it and has a 50% chance of escaping through the door. (I get this 90% of the time, I had people waiting 30 mins without progressing gens so I am forced to close the hatch or wait the full hour) Then he insults me and makes a post saying every killer is toxic.
You give up.You try to rescue your slugged friend.
I play nice. I leave the area, they reset, I get them again and he proceeds to insult me and make a post in forums saying that they should nerf killers. Also says I am terrible and that I am a disgrace.
Idk what’s the protocol?
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So what happened to the whole thing about being tired of complaints?
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The survivor should usually not be able to finish the last gen in that scenario. If they've done a good job, they could have avoided a three gen, which could make it a little easier. But part of that situation should to involve partly patrolling gens. If you know where the slug appoximately is, it's not a bad idea to check gens, then go look for your slug. Odds are strong that the last survivor is being a bit careful about going for their teammate, and when you finish gen patrol, you might find them heading to or even healing the slug.
They could also just be hiding for hatch, but if they do that, the killer has only themselves to blame for making that boring hunt happen. And even then, the killer is more likely to win hatch race than the survivor since the killer has higher move speed and doesn't have to hide or run if the survivor shows up. A slug for 4k is usually going to result in a 4k. It's an easy kill.
Also, that's a very contrived situation. Most slug for 4k scenarios don't involve a close call like that. They're more often the result of a person playing killer who wants an easy fourth kill.
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Have you seen competitive games? Every single game the Killer has to slug, tunnel, and camp hook and most of the time he gets a 2k, with all Generators completed in 5 minutes.
Let me explain this to you since a lot of people get it confused. Competitive DBD is not normal DBD.
Competitive DBD has a ton of perk, item, addon, and offering restrictions on both sides, as well as rules restricting how people play. In Competitive DBD, they are not playing for Kills, they are playing for Hook/Progression Stages and Points so their team can progress in the tournament.
Competitive DBD is nowhere close to normal DBD. Normal DBD does not have the same rules. Normal DBD has far worse players in most of their matches. Normal DBD is not playing with money on the line.
Stop acting like Competitive is an excuse to play a given way if you dont even understand how Comp DBD functions.
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I can risk hooking and basically secure a 3k but risk loosing a 4K, since he has time to look for hatch while I am hooking
This is simply not true as hatch only spawns if there's only one survivor remaining in the game. The 4th survivor cannot "look for hatch" while you're hooking because hatch does not even exist yet. Both of you get the same amount of time to look for hatch, and while it's true that it's a luck-based mechanic, the killer does in fact have an advantage since 1. killer moves at a faster base speed 2. many killers have map-traversing abilities that allow them to cover even bigger areas in a shorter time (see Blight, Nurse, Billy, Dredge, Demogorgon, etc) 3. the killer does not need to be stealthy in order to avoid being found 4. killers are actually looking either for hatch or for the last survivor, whereas the last survivor's only hope is finding hatch. As killer, if you find the survivor instead of the hatch you can chase the survivor, zoning them into an area where you know hatch is not located and effectively down them.
Like I said, there is RNG involved. Sometimes you get unlucky and the survivor finds hatch before you can find either hatch or them. Sometimes you'll hit the survivor and, with the little distance they make from your injuring them (and bear in mind that this requires them being healthy in the first place), they'll get lucky and find hatch. But it is still an RNG situation where more often than not the killer has an advantage.
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2024. Year of the survivor.
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If you think this is year of the survivor let me tell you that you wouldn't last an hour in 2020 DBD. Let alone in the years before that. LOL.
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No! Don't you see how bad that is?! This is what I'd tell the devs and the people who support their direction. You're hiding the game's horrible imbalance behind forced mismatches. I just got done with several survivor matches that by every measure we should have won. But we didn't, because people gave up, were super inefficient, made the most incomprehensible possible decisions, and never pressured the killer adequately. Killer goes on a long chase? Never punish him with gen rush. Killer 3-gens? Never push it. Killer's playing Doctor, Legion, Wolf Dracula, anything weak like that? Perform as if they're a comp Nurse. It's almost like they want to lose.
You can't let this continue. Stop hiding bad balance behind MMR. Fix it, to where people are actually put against equal skilled opponents teammates, they'll clearly see the imbalance, and then fix what they say to fix. It's so simple.
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I think you're wasting your breath. I tried again recently, but nobody's gonna convince these people that the game is survivor sided. They'll use every confirmation bias, every bad analogy, every misconstruing tactic, just to reinforce the opposite reality. They just assume every killer is comp Nurse, every survivor is a poor helpless solo who can't even handle being chased, and that what the devs have been doing is "fixing the game" when the survivors get buffed and "ruining the game" when killers get theirs. I'd love to see someone argue that this isn't the case.
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I don't think this is the case, at all.
Survivors are nowhere near as powerful as they used to be. And the tools at their disposal now really pale in comparison to what they used to have.
Some of them had to be nerfed, yes. Other did not, and got nerfed anyway. But it is a fact that survivors are weaker now.
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Yeah, pretty sure 2016-2018 were Survivor years.
2019-2021 were fairly balanced overall.
2022-2024 seem to be the Killer years.
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Pulsar!
Good to see you again, friend!
How are you?
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I haven't seen any significant nerfs to survivor, in my time playing this game, that weren't warranted. In hindsight I'm actually an advocate of the quick healing meta we had, as long as killers could get quick downs as well. But because people wouldn't accept the latter, out of spite, we got neither. In the grand scheme of things, I think killers have been nerfed at least as much as survivors. Loops might not be 2 feet apart anymore, but they're still 5 feet apart. God pallets and windows are still in, and killer doesn't have adequate time to get survivors before 5 gens are done. So I don't care if survivors are weaker, because they still trump the killer. The only reason you don't see it every single match, is because MMR operates off of forced mismatches. 2 good survivors, 2 bad ones, 1 decent killer. If the killer tunnels weak links and they have no anti-tunnel, he wins. If he chases the strong ones, he loses. Every match feels like a coin flip, except survivors get to re-roll for extra flips if they have X perk or get X map RNG. Every perk/map you could say the same for with killer... has been nerfed. Why do 4000 hour+ killers struggle every match if this stuff wasn't the case?
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I was there, and I struggled. Had I had the experience I have now, I would have done better. There have been better candidates for Year of the Survivor, like the one with non-stop killer nerfs to Wraith, Deathslinger, Nemesis, Twins, etc. But the game's current direction is "Let's nerf killers and buff survivors until the uncarryable solos can win." Except, they still lose. The plan has failed, but they're still going with it. And it feels like people are deluding themselves into thinking that killers nerfs are good. Take one of the killers right now, who you can't imagine being nerfed because of how mid they are, and nerf them, and suddenly you'll see people, "Oh yeah, that was long overdue." The name of the game is groupthink.
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Um…I never said a majority of the player base has never tried to play killer but thanks for taking the liberty to splice two separate comments together. I said "a majority of the player base plays survivor" which is self-evident because you kind of need 80% of the players to be on the survivor side to make the game work and then I said "many of those players have never attempted to play killer" which is evident based on the comments on this forum day in and day out. Of course BHVR never has and never will give us the actual stats on it, but I'd be willing to guess that at least 25% of survivor players never play killer. What % do you think it is? It's definitely not zero.
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It's always the same narrative. "Killer mains have been oppressed by the evil survivor mains since the dawn of DBD".
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You are literally providing a perfect example of the issue that @Green_Sliche, I and others are talking about with people coming onto this forum claiming how easy it is to play the killer side despite having no experience playing killer.
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This kind of attitude is just sad.
It's one thing to disregard the actual facts of what the devs have been doing for the past two years at least, but it feels like you're also gaslighting yourself into thinking this way.
You're in nearly every thread, complaining about anything you can find. Base kit buffs across the board for a ton of killers in most every recent patch and you go searching for the .2 seconds nerf to be outraged about.
You're looking to be angry. And anything short of incessant killer buffs and constant survivor nerfs is somehow just unacceptable.
It's not about balance, likely never has been. You seem to think that death garden is the goal: where the killer role should just be completely unstoppable to a degree that it kills the game entirely.
It's a level of entitlement and lack of awareness of reality that is too often found in this forum to begin with, but somehow taken even further.
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The devs literally posted 60% kill rates
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I’m unsure if you’re aware, but they have provided kill rate stats for each individual killer. All of them have at least a 50% kill rate, the lowest being doctor at 51%. This was before his buffs as well. So it’s not as if one killer (like trapper in your example) has extremely low kill rates but it’s hidden behind someone else’s. Every killer has more than a 50% success rate. That’s good. But to claim that the 60% kill rate stats should be ignored because they aren’t specific to killers isn’t accurate, because every killer even at their worst wins 51%- 54% of the time, and at their best wins 67%- 70% of the time. Statistically all killers are performing well. (Though more buffs and QOL changes should/can be implemented with certain killers)
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Can you even do anything besides assuming something on others?
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Well, I am not sure when you started playing DBD, so I cannot really tell. I started shortly after Legion's release, and I've seen nerfs for survivors that were justified, and others that were completely unnecessary. Same for killers, of course.
I don't think survivors trump the killer in terms of balance and the tools they currently have. Loops have become increasingly more dangerous after the countless anti-loop killers we've gotten, and most tiles being made unsafe after the big map reworks. Structures that used to be really powerful, like the houses on Haddonfield and Wretched Shop's main building aren't as good for survivor as they used to be.
Obviously there are exceptions, such as the Badham maps (except Badham 1) and the Game, but those aren't the rule. Generally speaking I don't think there is much being stacked against killers right now. That doesn't mean the game is balanced, of course, and I really don't like the direction the balance has been going since 6.1.0 (by far one of the worst patches I was around to experience), I just wouldn't say survivors still have a massive advantage over killers.
Why do 4000 hour+ killers struggle every match if this stuff wasn't the case?
I do not know, but I can talk about my experience. Sometimes I struggle because I made mistakes, sometimes the flawed SBMM system gives me players that I cannot beat, and the killers I play (mostly Freddy and Knight) aren't exactly among the strongest in the game.
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It is nice to see you again as well, General :)
I'm doing well, I'm afraid I'm still not playing DBD, but I figured I can chime in here when I feel my opinion isn't too dated lol
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Happy to know you're doing well, my friend!
I take it you didn't play the recent Halloween event, then? I'll be honest, it was easily the most fun I've had with this game since the days of Old DBD. And you know me, my friend; that is saying something.
Hopefully you'll chime in here more often! There is a lot to discuss.
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The game is EXTREMELY survivor favored right now. There is so many safety nets and the game is is really really forgiving for making mistakes as survivor. It's not that hard to escape even in solo queue. Might be best to look at what you are doing wrong than people saying its the games fault. Which is why I given up playing survivor, theres no challenge anymore, the game practically just hands you a win.
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Me when I lie.
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You're not denying it so I can only assume based on your commenting history that you don't play killer
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that's not going to happen because most people don't play this game competitively.
a lot of things in this game work the way they do (and dont get fixed) so that people can play it casually / without actively trying to win and still feel like they have a chance.
if you want competitive gameplay - play scrims and tourneys, that's what I do or any other sensible person should do.
"fixing matchmaking" and then making game great again wouldn't cut it. There are too many things in this game that make it bad for competitive in pub setting. Maps, loadouts imbalance, perk design, killer power design, etc.
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Not since the dawn. The game was at its most broken for survivors back then, yes. But it's this... religion... of survivors never being wrong, and their demands for how they want killers to play never being too extreme/unreasonable, which has captured this game's community since like 2019, that killer players are oppressed by. It has only grown in strength since the "feelings over everything" and fake wholesome, group cyber bullies of the modern day have joined in. They want killers to play with skill, but when do that and they use strategies to win (tunneling, slugging), the survivors say they have no skill. They demand that killers play easy for them, and then shame them, win or lose, whether they play by that rulebook or not.
And the worst part is that they have a monopoly on power, not just in gameplay but in future balance decisions. There are design decisions that the devs could make that, from the pov of killers would be fair and balanced changes, which survivor mains would call "beyond killer sided" and "game ruining." But lesser changes have been made, very curtailed in the name of compromise, and they still called them those things. The biggest admittance of this culture's existence is when the devs talked about killers snowballing recently, in their 2v8 return stream, that they don't think a killer who's playing well should be able to do it, as if survivors aren't able to snowball as well. They'll be putting in a gen speed boost for survivors after someone gets hooked, which is literally, objectively punishing the killer for doing their job. That, combined with MMR forcing 2 bad survivors and 2 good ones against a killer, and hoping the game is broken enough to still give the survivors a win, clearly shows how the devs and the biased survivors want an orchestrated match result. A 50/50 no matter what.
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I posted this on another discussion but I’m tired to write more so I’ll just use to mention the issue there is.
The statistic is a bit mmm angled. The BH stats also show that survivors escape 40% of the time, we talking about individual players. There´s 4 of those EVERY match. That means that each one of them has a 40% chance. Im no math expert, but that means that, considering that a "win" according to BH and MMR is killing at least 3, it adds up to more than 40%. Yes, killing one starts to lower the chance for the survivors to live, but each having 40 means that the killer win stat is not as simple as you all love to put it.
We also have to consider that survivors can be mashed together in a single stat because they are basically the same, just re skins, where Killers are vastly different from each other, their powers range from worthless to extremely powerful so we cant just ignore those factors.
If you are having a field day winning, good for you, but thats not the experience of most killer mains. Geez dudes, as you love to toss the "simple stuff" factor, AFTER 1 CHASE if the survivors are not goofing around they will have completed 3 out of 5 gens. After 1 hook. That’s considering that all the survivor did was hold W and drop every pallet in sight. Don´t you think the game goes a bit too fast? I think that Haunted by Daylight showed us a possibility, because people were messing around with secondary objectives that rewarded BP and were fun. Games were a bit longer, you had a bit more freedom chosing perks, etc.
COMP is not a different game. It is the game played at the highest possible level. Just like in other games, the maximum capacity of players is used to gauge the state of characters and game design. You can´t just neglect everything saying " well they have more skill". I KNOW that they play for hooks, but thats the second game, on the first one, where the killer is doing ALL he can to win the game, it´s a forced strategy to slug, face camp, tunnel to have a chance. It is.
Now, you can ignore COMP, lets pretend you are completly right and is different to the point of being a "DIFFERENT GAME" (lol sorry). You CAN´T BALANCE A GAME with FACTORS OUTSIDE THE GAME DESIGN CORE. If a good group of players can end a game in 5 minutes against the best killer player in the world, you have to at least take a look at the state of the game. Killers DO NOT dominate. They dont. Thats why there are rules in place to actually make it possible to win against survivors that are playing at their maximun capacity. YOU HAVE TO BALANCE A GAME TO WHAT IS POSSIBLE TO DO. Everyone, eventually, plays to get better. The mayority of people play to WIN, not just clowing around etc. So, eventually, the skill base of players keeps rising and rising, if you neglect how the meta game looks like and just ignore the fact that is possible to utterly destroy a killer in 5 minutes, you are condeming your game in the long run. The game is succesful because of the thrill factor of surviving, facing the odds, right now is more like, unless survivors play EXTREMELY ALTRUISTIC, MAKE A BUNCH OF MISTAKES OR SIMPLY PLAY TO ANNOY instead of winning, the killer will lose.
There are lot of strategies survivors can use to counter every killer and most of them just involve rushing gens. Thats something to consider, also that holding a mouse button and sometimes pressing the space bar is by no means a hard skill to learn. If the game rewarded good chases, looping and strat from survivor side, we need to find ways to slow it down and give some type of objective to survivors so they can pursue other strategies instead of just, RUSH GENS, PRESSURE, END THIS.
Why do you think that slugging and tunneling exist? Do you think BH decided that’s how it should be played? NO.
Do you think that killer mains are just mean and want to annoy you? NO.
Players came up with this meta strategies after thousands and thousands of hours playing the game, finding what works and how to win. Game balance is exactly the same, you have to attend player complaints sure, but at the same time, consider every factor of why such strategies exist in the first place.
The problem is that balancing killers is harder than balancing survivors, because each one of them has different abilities and different power levels. Can’t just judge all of them, mix them in a bowl and claim that playing killer is easy, because it’s not, every killer main feels the change. If I play a brand new killer, right now, one that I have never played before, I will get a field day, but after certain amounts of games, every single one becomes a nightmare.
Finally, bringing streamers win rates into the conversation while neglecting competitive is just as incoherent.You cannot balance a game and program it accordingly an utopian concept of people acting by the approved norms of niceness.
You have to balance the game to what is POSSIBLE. In that case, the game is survivor side, period. If those players that play survivor want to avoid the current meta game, there has to be at least a conversation in which we consider why is it that killers are being forced to run perks that slow down the game and slug and tunnel etc.
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