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2v8 repair speed scaling
Thanks so much for implementing this system. Presumably this serves as a soft trial for it as well. So if it's deemed successful, please think about rolling it out to the main game mode, with number adjustments obviously.
However I would suggest changing hook/cage states to survivors eliminated, otherwise killers would be penalised for spreading hooks instead of tunneling/camping.
2% per gen completed and 6% increase per survivor eliminated (3 hook states) sounds good.
Comments
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I think this would be a good testing ground for such mechanics/perks, do this more often with your limited time mode! You could learn so much from these experiments.
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The scaling is flawed and terrible, its 8 gens vs 24 cage states. If you're losing 1% per state you may as well tunnel people out and slug and take away survivor pressure that way. Either way the gens are going to fly, 8 gens is too low it should have been 10.
Here's hoping we don't get an extension like last time, easily the worst game mode.
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Am double checking the numbers on this, as we might have made some changes to the 1% after playtesting. Will be able to confirm after lunch.
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Okay, I edited the Developer Update to reflect the correct numbers, it should be:
5% per gen completed and 2.5% for each cage state. Sorry about that.
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Thank you for the update! A 2:1 ratio seems alot better at first glance. Will be interesting to test in game
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That's actually really good to hear. I love the idea of a rubberbanding mechanic and am glad you guys are trying one in 2v8, but the 1%:1% mentioned in the dev update was a bit worrying from the perspective of being so unbalanced it might heavily incentivize tunneling.
And that might still be the case, but I'll look forward to trying it.
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Those numbers look better.
Would still suggest it be 7.5% per eliminated survivor however.
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This looks a lot fairer, thx.
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that sounds much better. Thank you very much for letting us know!
I'm really looking forward to this feature because it looks like this will make matches more intresting and not be like "okay the match is over, now we only do our best to get more BP, gg"
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If the gen speeds are connected to cage states instead of survivors eliminated, then it encourages killers to really try their hardest to tunnel survivors instead of spreading cage states.
For example, 9 cage states could mean that 3 survivors have been knocked out of the game, or it could mean 0 survivors have been knocked out of the game… but the killers get equal gen speed punishment for both these scenarios.7 -
It's incredibly hard to tunnel in 2v8 and win. You won't get many Survs that way.
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Encouraging survivors to 99 gens and encouraging killers to slug death hook survivors is probably not a good idea for players having fun in the average match.
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i mean they could test in the base mode. bill used to have a perk called No one left behind which boosts gen speed when you were last survivor left by 75%. they eventually removed this perk with the hatch perk and than added bonus back on sole survivor which also grants 75% repair speed if you are last survivor remaining. the problem is that perk does not scale. it is only 75% on last survivor and nothing else.
the perk should be 40% when 3 survivors are alive, 100% when 2 survivors are alive and 400% when 1 survivor is alive. The perk also fails to include healing speed. personally, i do not think it is good idea.
surely it won't encourage tunneling or mass slugging.
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But like, why isn’t it based off of the number of survivors that got sacrificed, since that’s what actually matters, and because it’s actual anti-tunneling?
Because we saw tunneling in the last 2v8, where killers would just zoom across the map because the cage spawning rules were too predictable. Were the cage spawning rules changed to help fix the tunneling problem?
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Both of these are a greater risk than a reward.
Survivors should be learning to split up on gens anyway, but 99ing them when they're done risks the killer regressing them, then that extra repair speed is wasted.
The killer would gain more gen pressure by eliminating a survivor than they do by leaving them slugged and able to be rescued. One less survivor is effectively about 33% slower repairs in general (in the main game mode) as you go from having an average of 3 unoccupied survivors down to 2. Then eliminating the second survivor drops that to 50% slower repairs.
But basing it on hooks rather than sacrifices means you're better off tunneling a survivor out, so that the 7.5% faster repair speeds from making 3 hooks is countered by 33% less repair capacity. While if you spread 8 hooks without killing anyone, that's 20% faster repairs with no decrease in survivor numbers.
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The slugging tactic will only work on killers with mobility. Even then with the changes introduced it will be significantly harder to mass slug survivors so getting survivors caged would work better most of the time.
The issue with gen speed buff / penalty is the gen has 2 states - not completed or completed. Survivors have 3 states aka hook stages and this system takes the stages of other survivors into account.
The way values are now, if you do hook 3 different survivors once, you get 3 ''stacks'' of buff given to survivors, yet their overall number will remain the same - 8. A similar system for killers would require gen stages to be used rather than gen completion - 1 stack of the same debuff per 33% of the gen done. Instead we can have case were nice killers try to spread hooks and get gen rushed because they gave survivors massive repair buff and it worked on all 8 of them. Meanwhile, when survivors repair any gen, the ''buff'' to gen defense will only apply to the remaining ones, aka 7.
Simply speaking these values of 5% per completion and 2.5% per hook aren't fair and only promote killers to tunnel survivors asap because spreading hooks now makes repairing them easier. Devs also slapped a gen vision range so it's another massive nerf to patrolling and scouting, which makes searching for other survivors even more risky.
Don't be surprised if killers will focus on eliminating survivors asap now - these changes made every other playstyle either ineffective or counter productive.
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So it seems these numbers are too high.
The gen speed increase should be something like 5% for each survivor sacrificed, instead of 2.5% for each cage state.
This way it only kicks in as survivors (who repair the gens) are reduced, and it becomes the catch up mechanic it was meant to be.
With 8 survivors instead of 4, the difference it makes counting cages instead of sacrifices is massive. You can score up to 16 hooks before anyone is sacrificed. That's up to 6 survivors (minus up to 2 in chase) repairing gens
40% faster. Meanwhile there's only 8 gens to repair, not 10. The maximum penalty caps out at 35%, but with that many more survivors it's more likely that they'll have multiple gens on the go at once, so the penalty isn't kicking in soon enough. It's not comparable to the main game.In regular games these numbers might work, when you only have 8 hook states to worry about and they cancel out at an even 4 gens repaired. But it would still be healthier to count sacrifices even then to dissuade tunneling.
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So basically in addition to having the free 2 gens at the beginning, you need even more of a boost? Please BHVR, terrible idea to make the game more survivor sided.
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It's really not survivor sided when there is a 2nd killer, you just need to co-operate with them, combos and pressure you can apply is really strong :)))
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Good luck doing combos when survivors repair gen in 20 seconds or less or can heal each other almost instantly the moment you decide to group up.
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I'm just not seeing it in any of my games tbh. Did 10 games and every second killer Im getting is almost doing worse than me. I think if you cant do the rush killers like nurse and blight you may struggle. I get that there are better survivors than me, no doubt. But this just seems so one sided.
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The latter aboslutely isn't. Slugging is already very potent in DBD, countering a large menagerie of perks. Stacking on even more incentive to do it is not what we should be doing right now.
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Slugging is potent because it's currently more advantageous to slug than it is to hook. Dying survivors are easier to control and play around than hooked survivors, and requires less time/effort.
But killing a survivor is absolutely more advantageous than both. There is a benefit to slugging a survivor who isn't on death hook, there is no advantage to slugging a survivor who IS on death hook (outside of the possibly of DS or a sabo play, in which case slugging is absolutely fair).
Hooking a survivor who can be rescued, healed and then continue to repair gens doesn't gain you any immediate ground, but eliminating a survivor who can no longer contribute to repairs is the single MOST effective thing you can do as killer.
So no, having this repair speed bonus trigger on sacrificed survivors does nothing to promote slugging outside of what would usually warrant slugging. But triggering it on hook/cage absolutely promotes tunneling.
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