How do we fix 2v8 Queue times Ft. Scott jund
Personally I don't see how we can fix queue times for 2v8 needing 8 survivors is to taxing on the playerbase and queue times the only way I see it is we make it 2v4+4 surv bots to forcefully deflate queue times and make it less taxing on matchmaking Devs wont tell you they did this change and it will be fake names or anon mode to escape complaints,
Of course people will binch about having bots in matches (looking at you) but spending 20 mins for a 5 mins match isn't gonna be a successful nor permanent gamemode.
Other ways then that we could merge integrate 2v8 into live matches to queue survivors in 1v4 and 2v8 along with killers course you'll have dc penaltys if you lobby dodge.
Scott Jund states that even those this iteration is survivor sided it has down nothing to fix queue times and discuss long term solutions to fix queue times.
Comments
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Implementation of Bots.
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Really the only way the mode is supposed to be meant as arcade and silly so implementing 2-4 bot slots to fill deflate the queue times would fix it
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It should never have been 2v8 anyway. The fanbase jumped to 2v8 because it was doubling everything, but it already requires a ton of balance changes to make it viable anyway, just doubling the numbers doesn't work. Survivors only have to do 8 gens instead of 10, can't bring items, killers don't have to make hooks. It's not directly comparable to just twice as much of everything.
So if it's not directly comparable, why does it have to be 8 Survivors? What is the selling point of having so many survivors in the same game? I don't think there is one. The main purpose of this game mode is being able to team up as killer.
It could have been 2v5. With balance changes to aid survivors more than killers. Maybe they still only need to repair 5 gens, or maybe everyone gets 4 hook states. Anything can be changed to make 2v5 a viable and balanced format.
With 2v5, the most popular role, killer, has it's capacity doubled, to accommodate the huge spike in killer players now that friends can play together, while the survivor side is only increased by 25%. This would better equalise queues.
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Maybe you could get queue priority based on how many matches you've played in the opposite role.
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In the video they talk about that but they would have to rebuild from the ground up to implement that system
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We could try 2v5 to 2v6 but we would have to add 2-3 bots to help give Survs a chance and sustainable in matches and keep the appeal of 2v8
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I just said there's no reason it needs to be 8 survivors. Forget the bots, just have 5 survivors total. Change gens required, hook states, gen speeds, health states, whatever it takes to make 5 survivors capable of facing 2 killers.
Nobody wants to play against bots.
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For me more bloodpoints would definitely help as even with the max incentive rn (250% as far as I've seen), you''ll only get around 100k bloodpoints for an average survivor match which definitely isn't enough to make me play it. Iridescent Shards would also help but I doubt BHVR would be willing to do this. But like Scott said the novelty of being able to play killer with a friend for the first time is the main factor which IMO is only gonna get worse as more killers get added which I don't see a solution for.
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The problem is the devs haven't done anything to make survivor appealing or new when it came to this second iteration - there's enough players, people just would rather sit in a 10 minute queue than play survivor. They added 3 new killer options and gave the killers 4 classes to choose from which also didn't help the queue situation they already knew would be an issue. They should've at the very least introduced some new survivor classes before they added new killer options and killer classes.
Adding bots is not appealing for the survivor side, we already see it in 1v4 where the killer ignores the bots and only goes after the real players because they don't care if the bot lives/dies. If you have 4 real survivors and 4 bots the killers will for sure tunnel out the 4 real survivors first before they even bother with the bots. The devs won't hide the names - anytime a post is brought up with the request to hide players names in pregame lobby/match until the end game screen the majority say no, they need to be able to see the survivors names in that pregame lobby and check their profiles and TTV that don't use anon mode want their name to be seen during the match so people will go check them out (end game screen isn't enough for them).
There's plenty of players for both modes, the problem is that players from one side refuse to play the other side. Putting all the players into a queue and sending them to either 2v8 or 1v4 is a terrible idea, especially when one mode is extremely competitive and the other is more casual.
They're better off setting up a preference system in 2v8 for the solo/duo players to play killer/survivor similar to what they have for Killer Klowns and Rush Week in TCM. You won't be guaranteed the role but atleast you won't be sitting in queue for as long. They can also start a lobby dodge penalty or even an event game mode penalty if there are people lobby dodging/DCing frequently because they are refusing to play the role that randomly gets chosen for them. Have the preference system only in 2v8, that way if they want the option to be guaranteed their role they can play 1v4.
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No Survivor would want to play with 4 Bots. At least not with the current Bots we have who are terribly coded and are basically useless.
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Basically I feel like he's kind of right. I think with time the queue would fix itself, if it became permanent. Even I was saying the same thing when the first iteration came out. I feel like if they make this mode permanent, that people would eventually find their preferred role. And with time it would even itself out. The only thing they could do is add more killers to play as, that may increase the queue speed. And we also got to consider that since it's a limited timed mode some people may not care to wait, since they know it's gonna be gone in 2 weeks. Thus if it was a permanent mode it may decrease the queue time since people don't feel like they got to wait the queue time.
Post edited by Trickstaaaaa on1 -
Except Survs ain't gonna allow a 2v5 and claim unfairness which is why we need bots to at least raise it to 8 no amount of changes nor tweaks will change that Perception they will not allow two killers unless they get 8 teammates
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We can test by adding just 2 to see if it helps queue time if not Then Devs are gonna be forced to merge 1v4 and 2v8 into the same queue Survs and killers lobby dodging will give a dc penalty
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They gave 500% for Survivors role and it didn't fix Queue times at all
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Exactly. Filling the mode with bots will just further push people away from playing survivor and towards killer. Bots are a hindrance rather than a help and no sane survivor would willingly play a mode that gives them bot teammates by default (unless the devs massively improve the bot ai)
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it already requires a ton of balance changes to make it viable anyway
Honestly, I'm starting to think this is where it went wrong.
The attempts at making 2v8 a balanced experienced seem to have hurt the mode, instead of making it better.
I think they should have delayed it until most killers were available, up to Skull Merchant at least, instead of dedicating the effort towards making it balanced.
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Survivors need real incentives to play not just bp.
Instead of bp, they could give the survivor queue an exp boost to make it more appealing.
Also, survivor gameplay needs to be more interesting. Medic and guide just allow you do something that you can already do faster than usual. Effective, but really dull.
Meanwhile, scout does offer something that can't be done in 1v4. The shared aura reading is interesting and while it's not super exciting, rebuilding pallets is new and I think the devs should experiment more with abilities like that.
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Bots are useless in this game. They break down the second a terror radius shows up. Imagine a significant portion of your team being bots when there are multiple killers. You'd lose every match since the bots would just run around like headless chickens. I don't know how casuals would react but the day they add bots is the day I stop playing the mode. People don't play online games to get matched with bots.
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Here's a simple fix: make playing killer something you have to earn by playing survivor.
make it so that people by default start with like 2-3 killer queue tokens to get things going and then the rest has to be earned by playing X amount of time as survivor (to avoid fast suicides, make it like "survive a match or play for 5 minutes in total for a killer queue token").
queues will still be long first day, but then when people run through their starting tokens, the queues will get better.
it's evident that finding 4 survivors is WAY easier than finding 8, so such system is justified here as an extra queue aid.
or we can go the harder route of "Make the most stale boring role in an even more stale and boring gamemode somehow more fun to play than killing with your friend" but this doesn't seem to work out so well so far.
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Yeah, exactly. This is one thing, the Bots are just not good enough and IMO they are more a hinderance than anything else. The Killer benefits more from the Bots than the Survivors. Even tho, it might be different in 2v8, because a Bot being caged at least speeds up Gens…
But there is also another aspect - people play Multiplayer-games to play against actual players. If one side of a Team is 50% Bots, it is a lot. And I dont want to play in or against a team like this.
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Bots are a terrible idea. I don't want one in my team, and at that point you might as well just make 2v8 a PvE custom game mode for people.
You could try to go for 2v5, but that would have to involve some pretty heavy buffs to the survivor team. I'm not even sure the game can physically give survivors more hook stages, but that's what would have to happen here.
The only reason people want this 2v8 mode is for the "2" part. Barring some kind of "priority queue token you earn by playing 4 games as survivor", I'm not convinced there is a fix to this issue currently.
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This is so real. They should've added 2-3 more survivor classes. This is gonna sound crazy but we really should have like 8 survivor classes. I think once we have 8 survivor classes then we can move to a more slower content schedule fro 2v8. Maybe once theres 8 classes we only get a new class every 6 months?
Imo theres a LOT than can be done with survivor classes and the benefits they can use, they just need to be brave enough to test multiple survivor classes at once. Imo 2v8 should be a mode where BOTH sides are very overpowered, that keeps the game feeling gamey and arcadey without delving to much into balance because everyone is broken together lol2 -
Simple fix to make survivor more enjoyable to play in 2v8
Add Bubba.
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Oh right yeah I forgot people are generally stupid.
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Just get rid of the 2v8 itself. Poof, its fixed.
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Does no one realize this is a problem about how fun and engaging the survivor role is, and how this is also what ties with the extremely high suicide rate on normal matches?
They made a 2v8 where survivors have the advantage AND massive bloodpoint incentives AND STILL no one wants to play survivor because the core gameplay is still just stare at a generator for hours on end vs being able to spear survivors or become a deadly pinball.
The only incentive 1v4 has for survivors is that you can play with friends. Add killer duos and suddenly nobody wants to play "stand in place simulator" because, no matter how overpowered the role is, it's still boring as sin.
And this has been said a billion times: Allow survivors to have whacky powers. Add side-quests that progress the main objective. For crying out loud, add something that can be creatively used to your advantage instead of yet another progress bar that fills at different speeds according to your loadout.
Everytime someone suggests something odd for survivors, everyone gets concerned about the win rate and shoot the idea down. "I want to be able to aim a rope at a corner of a wall and swing myself on it to take sharp turns fast and go to elevated surfaces" "Um, actually, no. If we did that, killer kill rate will drop down to literal 0" BALANCE AROUND IT. Let people have fun and then balance the tools around the whacky fun perks instead of being constantly scared the game will take a "massive" 2% win rate drop on the killer side. You can have the weird perk and balance it so the win rate stays the same.
We can't be afraid to give survivors the ability to do something stupid like throwing a paper plane because "omg what if a killer sees the paper plane from afar and they think it's a survivor. That would have no counter and would drop their pressure. It would be so broken".
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it should just be 2vs6 but with 4 hooks
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Add crazy incentives (Bps, exp) and rank grades. See how fast people force themselves to play because the grind is horrible.
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maybe more frequent 2vs8's returns like every 4th week of a month, 2vs8 returns. changes to the mode do not need to be made on every return. lasts 1 week then returns.
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This right here.
This game fundamentally has a problem and has had a problem for a while, playing survivor is boring, because at the end of the day, the game is just holding m1 on a generator for 90 seconds.
When you really think about what DBD is, it is a game about player agency.
Survivors have an objective, to escape, they do so by repairing generators, opening the exit gates, and walking through them. They are able to move around the map, choose which generators to repair, choose when and where to heal teammates, choose what to do.
What is the killer's role? To stop the survivors from escaping, but how do they do that? By removing the player agency of the survivor in question. When a killer downs you, you don't get to play DBD anymore, you go on a "time out". When you are on the hook you don't get to play DBD anymore, you go on a "timeout" and that time out, only ends when ANOTHER survivor, decides to come rescue you, thus regranting you your agency, and allowing you to play the video game again.
This is the fundamental problem with DBD. Being told "you can't play the game anymore until a teammate comes to rescue you" is not fun.
This is actually one of things that other games like the TCM do very well, because there are no "time outs" you just die, and move on to the next game, or you escape.
The problem is, DBD was originally designed to be a game of hide and seek, then players optimized the hell out of the game, and looping became a thing, then it instead became a game of freeze tag. And the thing about freeze tag? Its not really that fun when you are "frozen"
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Just ignore this gamemode, like all the others.
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The problem is they did this. They let Survs have whacky powers, because the classes are SO overpowered. If you care about a fun experience the mode sucks as Killer because it's not fun to wait 20 minutes to watch 8 gens pop in 5 minutes. If you care about novelty, you would still rather play Killer with a friend because Killer is and always will be the more fun role compared to Survivor.
This mode cannot be fixed by making one side or the other stronger, OR by balancing it. They should go back to the first iteration and just give Survivors ANOTHER goal besides generators, more classes, and stop turbobuffing the classes we already have. The core issue isn't that the game mode itself is rotten. The issue is that it needs to either be its own game, or it needs to give Survivors more to do just like in 1v4. "DBD but MORE of that" isn't viable long term for this game, and trying to balance it out or make it a true 50/50 kill to escape rate doesn't make it better - it just makes it feel like it's old 2018 DBD not long after everyone figured out what the meta combos and looping are.
Making the experience worse for one side while making it awesome for the other does not, and never will work. IDK why BHVR thought making the experience worse for Killer will solve the queue issue.
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Nobody is going to want to play survivor if they know that they're automatically going to get matched with bots. I certainly won't. That will only make the long killer queue problem worse.
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This. I've been saying the game is a party game and it always gets the "Actually, all pvp games etc etc blah blah.'
Its a party game. Even today. But hardliners will preach its not anymore, regardless of reality. Ths game cannot be balanced in a meaningful way due t the nature of the game and the skill level of the dev team, no offense. Thinking otherwise is delusional in an unhealthy way.
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yes
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I think it's quite telling who has the loudest voices. The "community" loves 2v8 but that community seems to be almost entirely killers. Survivors have quit the game a long time ago and haven't come back.
Scott played a different game because he didn't want to play survivor. Yet, Survivors are doing fine he says. He is part of the reason of this problem.
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I know this isn't the answer ppl want to hear but I rather just get rid of 2v8 instead of trying to fix it queue issues. I never liked 2v8 since I tried it the first time it came out and I still don't like it now. I know a lot of killers love the mode bc they can play with their friends but as someone who doesn't have anyone to play with, I never saw this mode for me. I always prefer Killer over Survivor bc it was the solo role. All 2v8 offers me as a killer main is the solo queue killer exp which I find unfun since you can get a useless teammate a lot of times.
I wouldn't hate it so much tho if queues 1v4 wasn't affected by it so much. I rather have Chaos Shuffer over 2v8 anyway, to me its more laid back and fun, plus playing with random perks can be so much fun.
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I mean, i don't think it is a party game, party games don't have MMR. The game became competitive the day they patched that in.
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They suggested a shard and XP incentive
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Then I guess enjoy when devs are forced to merge 1v4 and 2v8 queues to fix queue times
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They literally made the coolest Ults for Survivors and made saves possible again and it's become a survivor sided mode if that's not enough for you or other players your pretty selfish.
And heck no on a preference systems reason why I quit F13 and DBZ breakers cause I never got to play as killer. Just merged 1v4 and 2v8 queues and add a lobby dodge dc penalty.
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Except they did do all this for 2v8 and y'all will never be satisfied
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Can't it was a highly requested thing and they majorly put a lot of work and effort into it it's gonna become a permanent mode eventually so they can't scrap at least for not a long time 5+ years
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Then they won't tell just like other games have done
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They didn't let survivors have whacky powers. The closest survivors got to something even remotely interesting is rebuilding pallets, and that's the WORST power of this version of 2v8.
Every other class is a different flavor of "Move faster", "Repair faster" or "Heal faster". Everything is "Do the same as you always do, only faster".
That's not having whacky powers. Rebuilding pallets is different. Blast mine is different and fun regardless of being an incredibly pointless perk. Stuff like that is weird and interesting, not "Do gens but faster" which is essentially just what I said before about progress bars moving at different speeds according to your build.
Trapper puts traps, Dredge teleports and makes the map go dark, Deathslinger yoinks people from afar, Wesker can Tokyo Drift all over the map, Demogorgon opens holes on the floor to have his own quick travel network…
Do you know which killers are the most similar to survivors' powers?
Wraith. His power is essentially "walk faster" and "break faster". He still has some semblance of fun gameplay by being invisible, but it's a very passive effect.
Freddy. His power is essentially "survivors walk slower", but at least he has the option to make ghost pallets which is fun. Still, he's able to teleport to gens, which is already more fun than about 90% of what survivors can do.
Clown. He's literally the embodiment of "Do the same as always, but faster/slower". I've never seen a Clown have fun in this game. Have you?
All of these killers I hardly ever face because they're dull as heck to play. Even mega-nerfed Skull Merchant gets more play than those because AT LEAST the whole setting drones and having a tracker is fun and interesting.
We can have fun and balanced gameplay. They are not at odds with each other. We have cooldowns, prerequisites, speed values, distance, active time, buffs and debuffs and a whole array of tools to balance this stuff.
Survivors need something besides "Do what you always do, only faster", and killers would benefit from this too by slowing down the game.
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Hard to ignore, when its more fun for me than the regular 1v4.
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Being able to turborush gens, heal the entire team near instantly, rebuild god pallets, and never worry about where the Killers are because you can see them all round and let your team do that too isn't "wacky powers"? Getting stronger as the match goes on isn't "wacky powers"?
Uh-huh.
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Again, it's the same gameplay we already do normally, just faster. That's not fun and interesting, that's just strong, and strong does not equal fun, as is made evident by the fact that even though 2v8 ver.2 survivor gameplay is essentially broken and has the highest BP boost in the entire game, no one wants to play as survivor.
I don't know if you're missing my point or actively trying to play dumb for some reason. 1700% gen speed might be funny once for how broken it is, and it makes a good youtube video, but it's still essentially "fast progress bar". That's not fun. That's just broken.
Blast mine is fun and essentially pointless power-wise. It's merely a slight annoyance to the killer and an easy tome farm perk for stun/blind missions. Rebuilding pallets is fun because it's having an effect on the map, even though in 2v8 it's essentially pointless because you can easily get sandwiched between the two killers and suddenly the pallet means nothing. Diversion is somewhat fun because you can decieve and confuse the killer, even though the killer can just entirely ignore it the moment they know you have it.
Just because something is fun doesn't mean it's strong, and just because something is strong doesn't mean it's fun.
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This is the other big issue with 2v8 - it's just more of the same but faster. I am agreeing with you that 2v8 isn't that fun after a fashion. I mean they literally hyperbuffed Survivors and gave us a wishlist of literally everything we've been asking for as Survivor this time, and people still. Aren't. Playing. Survivor.
Because there isn't anything new or interesting to do, and not enough to do besides gens to warrant wanting to play Survivor, period. This is also true of 1v4 - we do not see incentives on the side that has enough players. This isn't because Survivor "isn't as fun anymore" or because "Killers are too strong now so nobody wants to play Survivor", it's because Killer was always just the more fun role with more to do. And it always will be. Making it 60/40 Killer to Surv doesn't change that. Making it 40/60 wouldn't change that. Making it 50/50 still would not change that, all it would do is make queues worse as weaker or less skilled players decide to quit the game because it no longer has any way for them to have any fun in it at a level they can work with. We saw what happened with 50/50 balance. Killers quit, because Survivors were too strong. The only reason they are not quitting here in 2v8? They can play with a friend to make it less lonely. That's it. That's all.
That's why the mode isn't ready yet, and why these changes were not good ideas. The base problems remain the same: Killer feels like it's even more stressful, and Survivor just does more of the same stuff they always do. It's a stripped down soulless version of the basics of DBD, and it lacks something that 1v4 has because of it.
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Increased Healing and gen repair aren't cool abilities. They are useful but they don't add anything interesting to the gameplay to make people switch from killer to survivor. The escapist ability silenced rushed actions for 8 sections, that's an extremely boring ability that isn't too useful with all the aura reading in 2v8. The pallet reset/rebuild is the only ability that adds something different to the normal gameplay - it's the only interesting ability and 1 ability isn't enough to draw people to the other side. They need to add more classes with interesting/fun abilities to the survivor side to draw people over from playing killer.
Again, mixing the queues is a terrible idea and should not be done. 1v4 is extremely competitive while 2v8 is more casual. If they mixed the queues like that more people would just not play DBD at all. If the added a preference system ONLY to 2v8 people would still have the option to go play 1v4 and choose their side.
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