You Shouldn't Be Patrolling Generators (Or Kicking Them That Much Either)
I said earlier in another thread this is something that should be talked about more on the forums, so I figured a post about it would be appropriate. This is also something of a mini-essay on effectively spreading pressure, since the two concepts are pretty heavily linked.
So then. There is a tooltip in this game, shown in the loading screens, that I think does incalculable damage to people's ability to play killer effectively if they follow it too blindly: "Patrolling generators is a great way to find survivors". There are people who seem to think that patrolling generators, therefore, is part of their core gameplay loop and part of how to play killer on a basic level; this also plays into people's misconception that generators are the killer's objective and stalling them is also therefore an important part of the core loop.
Neither of these things are true. Generators aren't the objective, and patrolling them is a good way to lose in a huge number of circumstances.
The reason I believe it's a really bad idea to patrol generators is simply that it's way too much downtime. The most important thing to be doing as killer at any given moment is generating pressure - that is to say, doing things that force survivors to react to you in ways that slow down the overall generator speed. You shouldn't be patrolling generators because you should be in chase, or where applicable, setting up a power. If you've just gotten a hook, you should be capitalising on that opportunity by going directly to a chase, and if you have to patrol generators to do it, you're just leaving tons of potential pressure laying there, unspent and unclaimed… which leaves the survivors who would be getting pressured free to do whatever they want, which, if they're smart, is gonna be generator repair.
If, instead, you bring one or two info perks so you know at least where survivors were a short while ago, you can get into that important next chase much more quickly, and start the ideal efficiency loop - one in chase, one on hook, one peeling away to save.
Combine that with some good chase knowledge to finish the chase in a timely manner, and you're well on your way to snowballing a victory. You're giving all of that up by focusing on generators at all, frankly.
I'm not saying to never kick/damage generators, mind, but they're not a core objective of yours. It doesn't actually matter if those generators get done, if you kill all the survivors by the end. They're just a timer you can delay a little, not the main focus of your efforts. For the same reasons, patrolling generators is just a last-ditch attempt at finding survivors if you have no other information to work from, and you kinda want to avoid that when you can.
Comments
-
I like to run Surveillance on Pig, which makes kicking gens tell me where my next target is in addition to giving regression. That lets me push them off a gen, and start almost all chases with the survivor injured (as long as I approach without line of sight).
But yeah, agreed. Survivors are the target, not gens.
2 -
What you and @jesterkind aren’t accepting is that a regression META and Skull Merchant immediately after taught us that gens are really the target. It makes sense though because survivors will eventually lose to attrition anyway if you whittle their limited resources down. You don’t even have to commit to them; just destroy their resources and continue surveilling gens.
3 -
Who needs to patrol anymore when Killers have 500 Aura Perks to easily find Survivors.
4 -
The problem with that is that we are not in the gen-kick meta anymore, and 3-genning has been severely weakened on everyone on top of Skull Merchant in particular especially not being able to do it effectively anymore.
If you try and take that strategy into the current state of the game, you're setting yourself up to lose and in a lot of cases generators are going to go quicker because you can't be everywhere at once and the further gens from you are free to be worked on.
3 -
Patrolling gens is a bad thing to just do by default even without aura perks, that's the point I'm making.
Aura perks make things easier, but they aren't The Reason that you don't "need" to patrol gens. Patrolling gens is not active or efficient gameplay either way.
3 -
If you start a chase with a survivor hit them, and they immediately run to a loop that contains killer shack into jungle gym into main building and its away from where someone is that you just hooked and away from generators, you are wasting your time and should go back to patrolling generators.
The reason most killers lose games is not because they are patrolling gens, but because they are wasting too much time in chases. The first thing you should be doing as soon as you load into the map is identifying where the strong loops are (usually near main buildings and killer shacks) and then trying to chase survivors away from those areas, and not to them.
I mostly agree about kicking gens. Generally you should really only kick gens if you have perks that are making that useful like Pop/Nowhere to Hide/Unforeseen etc.
1 -
Going "back" to patrolling gens sounds like you were doing that to begin with, which you shouldn't be.
Part of the decision making surrounding dropping chase is if you have another chase you can get into quickly. If you're dropping a chase that'd only take longer than you'd like and you're instead wandering around generators without achieving anything for the same amount of time, you're in a worse position than if you just took the chase. At least at the end of the chase you've used up resources and gained a hook- patrolling generators gives you nothing.
As I said in the post, patrolling generators is a last resort for when you don't have anything else, and I think killer players as a whole need to understand that avoiding that last resort is part of getting better at killer. Knowing where survivors are likely to be based on prior information and game sense is something that separates bad killers from great ones— and I'm not even saying I can do that wholly without perks, but I know that it's something I could and probably should improve if I want to get better.
1 -
"Patrolling" is probably a misnomer. The point is, you should be going from chase to chase. But those chases should ideally start at a generator, not near killer shack, or an area of the map where survivors have completed generators.
2 -
I find patrolling to be disengaging from the game so in the end I agree with the point you are making.
0 -
because of 400% regression speed. generator regression needs buffs because it is currently noob-trap kick gens unless you build entire build around kicking gens.
the newbie tip in game for patrolling gens is a tip for new player to find chases because a lot of new players don't know how to find any chases.
0 -
There's definitely the possibility of some confusion in language, so I don't mind clarifying a little:
To me, patrolling generators means walking from one generator to the next in the hopes of finding a survivor, or to delay their progress without committing to a chase. Either of those is a bad idea, and should be avoided where possible, excepting for very narrow circumstances.
If you're just walking directly to one specific generator that you know (or strongly suspect, at least) a survivor is on with the specific aim of starting a chase, that's a different thing entirely.
0 -
I do know it's for new players, but I think it builds bad habits. I think it tells new players "the way you find survivors is by patrolling gens, so do that every match to find your chases".
I'm not really necessarily blaming just that one tooltip for this, it's just a good thing to point to for framing my argument. I'm telling those players here myself, you should be tracking survivors directly and just going straight to them, not wandering around their objectives without a plan.
0 -
I understand the thread but generator locations are a pretty popular hangout spot for survivors 🤔
3 -
Like I said above, you are very likely to be walking to a generator when you're initiating a chase, but walking between them as your main method of tracking survivors is asking to lose.
Ideally, you should already know where survivors are through other means, whether that's basekit means like spying a crow flying in the distance or catching a scratch mark against the wall, or from information perks giving you more precise information. If you are absolutely stumped, patrolling generators will help, but part of honing killer skill is avoiding ever being in that position to begin with.
0 -
I got ya. Mindlessly following a gen route really isn't that useful there's far better ways to track. Most come with more experience as some methods you listed.
2 -
"Generators aren't the objective" - they're literally the main objective, and patrolling a 3 gen can be a huge win condition. But yes it's not good to generalize this
1 -
The reason most killers lose games is not because they are patrolling gens, but because they are wasting too much time in chases.
Honestly, I blame the sheer amount of anti-loop killers added to the game in quick succession for that.
We've had way too many characters who are extremely oppressive in chases and that is their only power. If their chases fail, the killer just falls apart. These characters are very unlikely to drop chase, because it is what they are designed to do.
1 -
They are not. They are the survivor's main objective, they are not the killer's.
The killer's main objective is the survivors. Your focus is on them, the generators are a secondary concern only in that they're effectively a timer for how long you have to complete your objective.
3 -
We don't think it's a clear cut case. Patrolling gens shouldn't be the go to without a reason (ex: you have pop or don't know where someone is) but not paroling them every once in awhile isn't ideal either unless your getting downs and finding survivors extremely quickly. Also if the survivor is in a area you absolutely know will burn to much time, its better to patrol the gens for a quicker target or to get that one in a different position. It's dictated on circumstances.
3 -
The tooltip itself has nothing wrong with it. It's logical to suggest patrolling gens when looking for survivors is a great way to locate them. Afterall, the gens are the only real way survivors will ever make it out.
The issue is more with those killers who decide that this is the only way - something this tooltip has never said. Finding survivors is key, but the best way to slow the gens I've found is aggressively injuring, downing and hooking multiple survivors. There have been many occasions where my killer games have lost because of being unable to put the pressure on survivors. In games where I have, I have pretty much won every one, because they get caught in a spiral of healing, hiding, and losing hope.
When killers solely patrol gens, the problem is that they change the role from an aggressor to a defender. Now that gens have a limited number of times they can be kicked before being blocked from further regression, survivors can afford to chip away. I've won a few games as survivor because the killer opted for a 3-gen, and all survivors knew what to do. There's always a place for regressing gens, but never do it to the point that it overtakes the aggression.
3 -
I mean, unless you play killer with very fast chases, you need to worry about gens, there are simply gens worth defending.
You shouldn't try to defend all gens, but I don't think not defending any is better.- don't chase survivors into areas with no gens unless you down them very fast or need them for perk (Grim/pain res)
- don't chase a survivor which won't give you any resource in next 20 seconds (injury, down, pallet)
Knowing when to drop chase is way more important than saying don't protect your gens imo…
2 -
There ARE reasons to check gens but yes, especially on some Killers ( *coughLOWMOBILITYKILLERScough* ), it's better to disengage and use them solely to find Survivors, maybe kick if need be. Knowing when to disengage is very important. Why else do you think Killers use stuff like Pain Res and Grim Embrace?
0 -
Here is a challenge: try equipping more then 4 aura reading perks. Its quite the insane hot take, I know, but actually non of those hyperbole 500 perks beyond the potential 4 in the game matter.
Even if the killer got 2 add-ons that add aura reading, thats 6 sources of aura, max. And while figuring all these perks out is not an easy task, a killer who runs nothing but aura perks and add-ons will have a much, much weaker chase game.
I also know that you are most likely one of this contrary forum users, who love to incite the tread by throwing in such statements, so I am actually pretty counterproductive, writing long paragraphs to a 5s throwaway line, but who cares, thats just how I roll.
3 -
So, I want to restate for a moment that I'm not saying to completely ignore generators entirely. It's important to keep in mind for the rest of my points.
From there, I don't really disagree with your points, but it really doesn't have much to do with "protecting gens", so to speak. You shouldn't chase survivors away from areas with generators, but that's because you'd then be too far away from the other survivors, meaning more downtime before you can get back into the action and less opportunity to steer the chase into generators being worked on.
It's not that you need to stop the generators being done, it's that your objectives concentrate around the generators. That's why you'd want to be in proximity to them, not to defend or protect them. Like I said, the generators matter in that they're a timer, but they're not your objective.
1 -
Even using them as a way of finding survivors is a last resort when you don't have any other method of finding survivors, because every other method is so much better that you should be trying to avoid relying on generator patrol when possible.
Disengaging is important, but part of knowing when is knowing when getting into another chase would be fast enough that it's worth doing. Disengaging from a bad chase to spend half a minute or more looking for another survivor is not actually a particularly good trade, in my opinion.
That's my overall point, you don't focus on the generators, you focus on your objectives directly. Generators can be a useful tool, but not the primary tool or concern.
1 -
This is kind of a weird post. The hint text doesn't say to kick gens and ignore survivors, it says patrolling gens can help you find survivors, which is true and useful. There are other ways to find survivors as well, and those are learned in time.
I think you're spending a lot of time arguing against a straw man you've created.
1 -
I'm not actually mad at the tooltip, it's just a good thing to point to for what I'm talking about, which is players who think they actually need to patrol gens.
I think that taking the tooltip literally would lead to what I'm describing, but I don't think that's the sole reason for all the people who currently act that way. It's just something to frame the conversation so people know what I'm talking about.
0 -
Survivors repair gens.
Killers need to find survivors.
Where are survivors? Oh yeah, near gens.
Go gen to gen to find survivors.
Don't read more into tooltips other than they state the obvious.
5 -
I'm realising I really shouldn't have brought up the tooltip at all, now everyone thinks that's the focus as opposed to the people who talk about patrolling generators…
But still, "go gen to gen to find survivors" is the thing I'm saying people shouldn't do, regardless of where they got the idea. The tooltip was just phrased in a way that helped my point because it talked about finding survivors, which was the angle I was taking too: That's the worst way of doing it and should be a last resort, not a basic gameplan.
0 -
So where should I go to find survivors, if not generators?
0 -
My point is that tracking survivors directly is a stronger gameplan by far than just making a patrol around generators to hopefully stumble across one.
Info perks are the easiest way of doing this, but there are basekit things to use as well. Crows flying and scratch marks on walls are the biggest ones, but situationally you've got loud noise notifications as well. Plus, y'know, visually seeing them while you're in chase and making your way there after the chase ends.
Until you get to that level of mastery, though, info perks. Info perks are how you get that information. Walking aimlessly around generators is a bad idea, going directly to the generators you know are being worked on is a good idea.
0 -
I mean yeah, info perks are an alternative to patrolling generators. Understanding where survivors are is a thing without info perks anyway, and survivors will often go to generators. Patrolling generators is just part of gamesense and understanding how survivors move around the map, which is where you find the survivors when you're immediately trying to find a chase. And applying pressure isn't just about chase for every killer, it's often better to go toward a generator to stop it being done than it is to finish a chase and get hooks. That only really works entirely for killers like Spirit, Blight, Nurse, etc who can finish chases very quickly and apply pressure across the map just by existing. Use info perks to patrol gens less if you want, or just understand that survivors will use their downtime to do gens, and be there to stop them when they have it.
0 -
I disagree, I think if you're ever in a position where you are just walking from generator to generator and hoping to find someone, you are doing something wrong. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but the next step after finding yourself in that position is to identify why and see what you could've done to avoid it.
The thing that gives survivors their downtime as a team is when you're not chasing someone and you don't have someone on the hook. That's what pressure is: Survivors who react to your actions with something other than generator repair. If you're just walking between generators, the generators you're not currently next to are being worked on, and you are gaining nothing.
If, instead, you already know where the survivors are through a variety of means including info perks, you can go straight to the survivor and start your pressure immediately, no time spent not doing anything of note.
0 -
The purpose of the tip is to let newer players know that since the generators are the main objective of the survivors, it makes sense to go to their objectives to start a chase and all that. Obviously everyone at some point knows not to go in a huge circle around the map to find survivors and if you genuinely think killers are just that stupid and you're that upset over a tip in the game that literally no one is gonna read anyway, then you need to hop off the game and play something else. Sure obviously the main objective of the killer is to kill the survivors, but how do you expect them to find survivors? Around generators and random tiles they happen to pass by. So while it may not be the best tip in your opinion, it's still a good tip for beginner players to have an idea on how to find survivors. No one ever said that patrolling generators is their main objective and you don't gotta act like everyone ever did say that. And killers should be kicking generators because it slows the game down which gives the killer an easier time and also more time to kill the survivors. I highly doubt you've ever touched killer a day in your life if you genuinely think a killer has that mindset and they should just never go near generators or kick them. Like what do you expect killers to do? Give you a free escape? Obviously not. They're gonna kill you whether you like it or not and you will accept it
0 -
You do realize that the tip is for beginner players right? There's no way you genuinely think it's something the average killer thinks about and yes patrolling gens is the best thing you can do to find survivors. Do you expect killers to just sit in a corner of the map and magically find survivors that way? Because it doesn't work like that
0 -
I'm not actually mad at the tooltip, I've said that a few times, it's just a way of framing my argument.
My argument is more in response to people I've seen talk about generators as though they're supposed to be patrolling them and defending them jealously. I play killer a fair amount myself, which is why I think the comments I see dotted around the place could do with responding to overall— hence the post.
I've also, pretty obviously, never said the killer shouldn't touch generators at all. I made sure to say the opposite in the post- sometimes it's a good idea! But, it's crucial to remember that stalling the generators is not your objective and it's very, very easy to fall into the trap of paying too much attention to generators instead of your real objective. You generally don't want to kick a generator unless you have something in your build to improve the action, or you've just downed someone in the area so you might as well. Very few scenarios otherwise would be worth it.
0 -
Last resort? It's the Killer's basekit tool. Part of several basekit tools Killers have, like crows and unhook notifications.
Fortunately, most of the time, Survivors make it very easy to find them.
0 -
Yes, last resort.
It's something you can use but should never be your first call, because the other options are so much more effective and less time consuming on average that you're really leaving value on the table if you choose to patrol generators instead.
Any generator you walk to that does not result in a chase is more time you're spending without pressuring survivors, and survivors who aren't being pressured are more than likely going to do generators. Patrolling generators is a good way to lose against halfway efficient teams.
If you have no other information, patrolling generators is a good last resort, but in those scenarios you should really be asking yourself what you could've done/brought to have information at the time you needed it.
0 -
So how do YOU know where to go to find people at the start then? Guess? Go in the direction of crows? Lethal Pursuer?
No. You go the direct opposite of where you spawned, usually towards gens.
I rest my case.
0 -
At the start specifically, you go the opposite direction to where you spawned, towards where you suspect the survivors spawned.
I mean, I run Lethal Pursuer a lot, but without it that's what I do.
What I don't do is start making a loop of the generators, because that's wasting time. I go towards where I strongly suspect the survivors to already be, not searching each gen in turn. At the start of the game, it's painfully obvious why you wouldn't do that; you already have a really good idea where the survivors are likely to be.
My point is that the rest of the trial is like that too, you just have to do the legwork to have that information instead of it being pseudo-guaranteed because of spawn logic. If you already know where a survivor is, patrolling generators would be a waste of time, and you have a lot of control over gaining that information… ergo, relying on patrolling generators is a waste of time, and a last resort you'd only turn to if your other methods of finding survivors have left you without information in that specific moment.
1 -
I get that, but my point is that while you shouldn't patrol as a habit (yes, of course, just standing around the same gen cluster wastes time except in specific scenarios), there ARE reasons you check gens and it's definitely not just "as a last resort".
0 -
I mean, those reasons are the last resort.
They'd be because you had to drop chase and don't know where anyone else is, or you got a hook and you don't know where anyone else is, and so on- patrolling generators is only something you'd do if you don't know where anyone else is, and there are a lot of options available to you for knowing where survivors are.
If all those options fail you at once - which can happen! - then your last resort is generator patrol. What it shouldn't be is your basic gameplan and the thing you default to most of the time, because you almost certainly have better options available. Making a point of crafting your build and gameplan around keeping track of survivors is so much better than patrolling generators that I think it's totally fair to say generator patrol should only be done when you can't act on better information.
1 -
I see what you mean, and gamesense is usually how I would expect someone to find survivors without relying on info perks, but patrolling gens just a little, not like over and over every single gen but just looking at a few different gens in a part of the map where you expect survivors to be can be a very good way to apply pressure. I do agree that if you're really just patrolling every gen on the map hoping for a survivor you're not going to get far, but I don't agree that that's something that is being massively done by any killer who knows what they're doing at all.
0
