Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Map Offerings - very helpful for the game, they need to *stay*
I've seen a lot of people just demonize map offerings and wanting them gone. I understand that, because it can be really frustrating constantly getting sent to certain maps when you play a role. Sadly, most people just keep asking devs to remove the map offerings. I very disagree with this proposal. We need to look deeper, not just at the surface issue.
Map offerings are a tremendeous, fantastic help for the game. How? If you see the Eyrie of Crows offering get used so much, then there is great info in that. What is the info? The map gives survivor considerable advantage. Great, we've established this! What does that mean? Remove map off—- NO! It means that the map needs balancing. This is where the devs come in — or they should have already. If survivors have been burning the Eyrie map offering en masse, then that shows that the map needs urgent rebalancing. But sadly, it's been untouched for probably a few years. The devs need to take action. Please devs!
Removing map offerings will guarantee that you won't have ton of Eyrie offerings as killer in one day, but guess what - when you get the map randomly, you'll still struggle as killer, and then complain again about the map anyway (understandably). Removing the map offerings does not solve the issue, in my opinion. The issue is still there. Map offerings usage by a role shows that that map needs balancing.
Let's look at Withered Isle's offering, "Ichorous Loam". Before the "Greenville Squre" was added to the game, the offering guaranteed Garden of Joy map. The map offering was constantly used by survivors. What could that have possibly meant? Duh, the map has been very survivor sided. Now you rarely see survivors burn the offering. Why? Because you could get sent to GS, a map that doesn't favor survivors that much. So, this realm got "pseudo balanced", by introducing a map that doesn't favor survivors that much. Why burn Ichorous Loam as survivor to potentially get advantageous GOJ, when you're risking getting GS instead and having a hard time?
I am not saying that this is necessarily the way to balance realms. However, just look at what has happened and make some conclusions, please. When things get balanced, the "abuse of the strong stuff" stops, because that "stuff" suddenly isn't "strong" anymore. If instead of introducing the GS map, the devs did proper balancing of GOJ, the ichorous Loam offering frequency would have decreased either way.
Survivors use Eyrie of Crows offering too much? Well yeah, too many safe pallets. Survivors use Ichorous Loam offering (before GS) too much? Maybe the map is too big and has a few busted safe loops. Badham offering? Too many safe loops/buildings. A killer uses a Haddonfield offering? Maybe the map is toooooo small and doesn't have many good loops. A killer uses an indoor map offering? That's just scratch mirror mikey, leave him be :p.
TL;DR - The map offerings are NOT a problem imo. They are instead a great tool to show the DEVS what maps favor a certain role TOO MUCH. The missing component is the devs taking that feedback and balancing the maps. How soon they can do it depends on their workload and other things, but this is how I see it.
Comments
-
Truer words haven't been spoken.
Map offerings just increase a larger-scale problem, and also conceal it.
If they were removed, players would see that, in fact, it was the map that was horrid to play.
1 -
The developers can check the killrate on each map to see if a map is too bad or too good for killers and change it to make it fairer. We don't need map offerings to see which map is good for which side.
There is also a difference between getting a map random and someone sending you to a map. Map offerings always leave a bad taste and bad sportsmanship. Getting a bad map random is not nice but at least the otherside also has the random factor and is not prepared for it which would give you an extra disadvantage. The random factor makes the game more balanced and fairer.
Lastly, it takes much longer to rework every map to make them balanced than changing map offerings. The new map design is much better and the developers have a better understanding of fairness for maps. However, sometimes they miss the point and a map is after the rework still miserable (in a different way) like Garden Of Joy or Hafdonfield - Still unbalanced despite the rework/changes and needs to revisited which means more work results in other map reworks get delayed. It is also not possible to make every map 100% balanced for both sides, especially for killers. We can also get both changing map offerings an developers improve unbalanced maps to make them better for both sides.
2 -
Map offerings are a problem and amplify the problem of poorly balanced maps and the devs should not need to see people using map offerings to notice that one side is winning a lot more on specific maps.
9 -
problem being, with thousands of possible swf builds, 30+ killers with hundreds of addons and perks, and now 28 maps, or its literally impossible to balance some of these maps
Why?
One map seems normal, until a swf abuses the totem range
One map seems normal, until a trapper makes a effective 3 gen with the trapped corridors
One map seems normal, until a swf abuses main structure vault window with a practical infinite vault
the possibilitys of what is exploited and what CAN BE exploited is endless, its not realistic to have expectations that will balance a map for killer and surviviors, because your generalizing the indefinite possibilitys of perks,addons,items,powers,alturism that can all be combined to virtually make a infinite amount of things that could be exploited
People standarize pallets and vaults with balance but that literally is only the tip of the iceberg, so many more elements come into play that literally cant be balanced out, and even if they could bhvr updates are so inconsistent its more likely to see the game shut down than see actual balance changes to every map
map offerings should just not exist so balance can play out normally without the risk of players abusing the map with their builds and 90 offerings to burn through… just for a balance change from behavior 6 months later
Last thing is behavior can see the killrates..so theres no need for map offerings to work as a community outrage
6 -
The devs take data from all ranges of players, including the new, inexperienced and casual players. These that I've just mentioned probably don't struggle with Eyrie, Badham, Haddonfield etc., because the opponents don't really have enough experience (or care) to know how to use such a map efficiently in their favor. So the data would show that no map (offering) is problematic. The devs need to step away from just looking at the data, in my opinion, and actually observe popular applications of offerings/perks/killers etc.
It gets prominent with popular streamers and otherwise any skilled player, that there are problematic maps. If Eyrie offering is used much more than Crotus Prenn offering (in higher MMR, and with streamers), then obviously something is up. Easy to conclude what the cause is and where the problem is.
0 -
I like how people think that the solution to problematic things like that is "Just make the game better ™". I wish I lived in that fantasy world.
yeah buddy, im sure it's realistic to expect devs to make the maps actually balanced while releasing new maps every once in a while, it's definitely going to work out.
map offerings are a great indicator that not only map balance is horrendous, but also that it persists like that for years, just sometimes offerings change. yesterday it was haddonfield, now it's eyrie, tomorrow it'll be badham, then it'll be some new map or crotus and so on.
some people dont really understand that "Just make maps balanced ™" solution will never happen because if it could happen, it would've happened at some point already within those 8 years. And yet maps are being nerfed, changed and we still have an issue with survivor sided and killer sided maps.
so maybe just admit already that map offerings are a problem because they give people control over something that would never be made right.
8 -
Most uses of maps are SWFs that use builds associated with that map to give themselves a huge advantage.
Worst offenders being Eyrie of Crows (which was even worse before the rework), Garden of Joy (which is just a 50/50 now so has dropped off) and Badham with a basement at killer shack offering that makes survivors in main building unhookable with certain builds.
Also occasionally see killers picking Lerys (Scratched Mirror) and a number of builds and killers work on Midwitch.
Only time I'd use a map in solo queue would be if I needed to do a Fall from Great Height whilst being Chased challenge and pick somewhere like Dead Dawg which normally has 3 gens at height or Crotus Prenn or something. This change won't effect me too much apart from when facing a stacked SWF as killer which is usually a major headache.
3 -
No. If a SWF keeps brining map offerings for the same map they will get the advantage of killers, even if the map is balanced. The more the exclusively play that map the better they are prepared for that map. Even if all maps were perfectly balanced, that would give the people bringing map offering an advantage because they can bring perks that synergise well with certain maps (for example balanced landing) and learn the loops on that map better. #
Map offerings need to be removed.
4 -
Good points but, what you mentioned also mixes in the "swf vs solo Q" problem. That's another point that the devs have been workin on, and I appreciate it. The gap between the swfs and solo Q needs to be bridged as much as possible, to make the game easier to balance. When I play survivor, it's soloQ 99% of the time. Even if used a map offering for advantage, I basically never got value from it. So I never really bring maps for advantage anymore. But, if I play on macmillan and autohaven for many matches in a row, having the ability to go to some other map breathes in fresh air, and I don't get bored anymore.
I personally love Eyrie, Ormond, Dead Dawg, Hawkins, etc. for aeshetics and the vibe. I love these maps on both roles. Sometimes I just wanna go to some of these maps, so I burn an offering. Even if that map is "not good" for my role. I love burning Dead Dawg offering when I play survivor, even though it's a killer-sided map. Why? Because I adore it. I love the western setting, the feel, the buildings, the sunrise (sunset?). Not having the ability to go there and having to rely on RNG to bring me to that map (which could take a week tbh) would suck so much.
I love Eyrie for the desert setting, it feels SO good playin on that map (either role), because the aesthetics are immaculate. And yet, I don't really burn the Eyrie offering, because killers get tilted. Now, if the map was a bit nerfed, killers wouldn't have a problem with it, and we could all have a good time there.
I wouldn't mind premade groups from being unable to bring map offerings. They can indeed gain a lot of advantage even on maps that aren't strongly survivor sided. But solo Q should have a choice. From personal (soloQ) experience, my soloQ teams have basically never got strong advantage from me bringing a certain map and using a certain build with it. Neither have my teams got advantage from 1 rando (not me) bringing a certain map with a certain buiild. The lack of organization, communication, teamplay etc. and the randomness of MMR just don't allow for that to be super effective.
TL;DR - I still stand by the opinion of map offerings being useful for showing which maps need balancing. However, I wouldn't be opposed to SWFs being prevented from bringing map offerings. SoloQ players though should have the ability to bring maps to do challenges or just to break a macmillan streak, to prevent boredom.
0 -
"I love *names 4 of the 5 most used map offerings by SWFs" for athestetics. Yeah exactly…
3 -
Imo even if maps are better balanced, there's always going to be a huge advantage to certain maps if you are able to design builds around maps knowing where you will be playing.
There aren't any other offerings besides map offerings that give either side that big of an advantage, and they aren't fun to play against. Their recent change of making Sacrificial Ward a brown offering does help some as they will get blocked more often, but it's nothing more than a bandaid solution.
3 -
BHVR clearly do not have the capacity to balance maps properly in any reasonable amount of time.
Map offerings getting removed doesn't mean that the devs will suddenly be completely blind to a map being an issue. Player feedback is still reliable on that part. However, what it does do is stop them from being abused.
3 -
Just show me who used my offering (even when not all survivors used offering), that's all I want.
1 -
Imagine trying to complete Outbreak Breakout without RPD offerings. It might take you literally years to complete.
0 -
I did it without any offerings.
It took a long time.
0 -
The problem is that you can't read INTENT when it comes to someone playing a map offering and that the map offering skewing the match in your favor goes both ways. Not just survivor, killer players do it as well. If someone wants to do the fall from a great height challenge, they could play a map offering to simply do that archive challenge OR it could be a swf abusing an unbalanced map to gain an advantage by specifically balancing their perk builds around that map. As the opposite player it is impossible to intuit exactly what the intent of a map offering was so most people assume the worst, IE you sent the opposite side to a map with the intent of giving them a disadvantage.
Who's doing an archive challenge? Who's doing an achievement? Who's the killer that just wants a map that gives little counterplay to the survivors by choosing the map? Map design is a big point of contention for the community because of how horrible the map design has been and continues to be. Map offerings skewing the match in either side's favor is just objectively horrible for a game with competitive elements. Apply that same logic to any other game. If I booted up Smash brothers and could play an item to give me an additional stock against my opponent, that's just horrible. That's just unreasonable and unfair. BHVR has data on kill rates between matches, seeing the usage rates on map offerings if anything skews that even further since there are many times from personal experience that people have played for maps and those maps while horrible for most killers happen to be really good for mine.
That skews the data itself. You just get skewed data from map offerings regardless of who plays it and why. Map offerings should instead remove the realm from map rotation imo. If I have a Billy daily and I don't want to play on an indoor map, I can play an offering to get rid of that realm so I don't have to play on a horrible map like Hawkins or Lerys for that killer. If I'm a survivor and I don't want to deal with Coldwind because that map is still incredibly hard to see on? I can play an offering to get rid of Coldwind.
Map Offerings don't need to go inherently, but they are objectively very easily abused and should be reworked.0 -
Developers could just check the win rate of the Survivor side on Eyrie of Crows, no need to have map offerings to tell us that.
1 -
If this indicates something, it is how unbalanced all the other maps are, because you have to use offerings to have a fair chance. All reworked maps are very killer sided and suck to play on.
0
