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Singularity is too strong
Preface: read the whole post
This killer has gotten to the point where if you follow an extremely easy flow chart, you guarantee at least a 3k. The flow chart is as follows:
Run corrupt → Place one pod in the center of the map (any more and you're throwing) → start chase → at every loop, deploy a pod and instantly mark the survivor since there is essentially no time to place one, get on cameras, and mark → get your free hit with slipstream → break pod instantly if survivor is leaving loop → rinse and repeat.
Oh! I almost forgot! Since there is no penalty for placing a bad pod in chase, just shoot the pod again (.1 seconds) to recall it! No skill required!
This wasn't a problem when EMPs were constantly finishing, so you or a teammate could maybe grab one mid chase and have the chance to save yourself, but now that EMPs are 25 seconds from start to finish IF someone is printing the entire time, or 100 SECONDS if fully automated, AND requiring 4 seconds to finish the print, it is borderline impossible to not be marked by the killer for the majority of the match, shortening the time it takes for the killer to achieve a down.
Not to mention the amount of slowdown produced by simply having this killer exist. A teammate grabbing an EMP to help another survivor in chase (how the killer is intended to be countered) effectively destroys gen progress after the first chase is over. One survivor will be on hook, one survivor will be saving, one survivor will be getting chased, and the last survivor has a choice to either do gens or help their teammate with an EMP. How did this get through the PTB? Here's a hint: most singularities do not play him correctly and instead play him like trapper or hag and wonder why 3 gens are done before they even get a single hook, still demanding buffs, while the good singularity players are on their 300th win streak wondering how the broken changes made it to the live servers.
Prethrowing pallets does nothing, getting to a good window does nothing, having a teammate constantly running EMPs does nothing. If the singularity player knows how to abuse the killer's unfair mechanics, you cannot survive a fair amount of time in chase.
I have a few suggestions to balance this killer out: 1) EMP'd pods cannot be recalled and must wait until they are reactivated. Pods need 5 seconds to "root" into the map before they can be used to mark survivors. Likewise, the singularity cannot recall those pods until that 5 second "root" has taken place.
If those more tame balance changes are too much, then a good step in the right direction would be to simply consume the mark on the survivor if the singularity slipstreams to them. Being marked should not be as much of a death sentence as it is on live. It wouldn't be a problem if chase was this killer's only strong suit, but as he currently stands, he simply has too much going for him.
Yes I have played this killer. Yes I do think these changes are fair from the killer's perspective.
tl;dr: you're not getting one, read the whole post
Comments
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I’m P34 with him, he’s far from OP. Slipstream is not a free hit. I still have to chase you, get the hit and down IF you don’t make the window, vault or pallet and likely you will.
Singularity was the clunkiest, killer known to man and has a very high skill ceiling.The changes made to him in the past were QOL changes. Hes was so difficult to use on console.
When I go against him as survivor with my swf we usually get out. Solo queue it’s 50/50.
The problem is and I see it ALL the time is people are wasting emps like there nothing.“Oh! Biopod on the wall but it’s no where near a gen/objective!” uses emp
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Shredding through map resources quickly is just as valuable as a hit. The devs keep moving away from creating impactful windows on maps, and opt for only semi useful pallets. He can shred through pallets at a rate equivalent to leatherface while having more lethality in terms of gap closure and map pressure. Having a map with 2 gens left with no resources is essentially a win for the killer, as long as they can continue to execute on their gameplay.
Singularity does not have a high skill ceiling. His power does all the heavy lifting with little cost or thought. Knowing where and how to place your pods optimally, knowing when to slipstream to not be on the wrong side of a window is not indicative of a skill ceiling, it's called basic logic. His "skill ceiling" you're referring to is knowing when to drop chase, knowing where survivors might be in high traffic areas to place a pod while chasing, and knowing how to manage map resources. Those are killer skills, not singularity skills.
Nerfing EMPs and making them not autocomplete is not QOL, that's called a buff. Auto targeting survivors is not QOL, that's called a buff. If he's difficult to play on consoles, then maybe that should have been brought up during his creation instead of implementing band-aid fixes that only buff him on PC.
Your last statement is a bit of a misjudgment because if that pod is in a high traffic area that is currently being looped, that is a valid pod to disable. Too bad that the singularity can recall it and place one right back down without any penalty to his current chase.
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Like billy no matter how much distance you get he just teleports to you with no slow down if he pods you, it also dont help he has a some what built in spirit fury making pallets only half to no effect its so dumb. Even nurse suffers greatly from missed blinks for distance gaining and possibly los.
Post edited by buggybug on4 -
Then it’s a map issue, no a killer issue. Respectfully though, I don’t agree with your OG post. You are forced to play differently with singularity as a survivor and to say he isn’t a high skill ceiling killer is wild.
With that said, thank you for your post, but I respectfully disagree.6 -
The questions we should standardize in this forum, when someone is asking to nerf a killer are:
Do you play as “X”?
Have you actually dedicated time to play it? How long?You escaped from placement matches with that killer and you realize it has weaknesses? How many matches have you played? As and against.
Are you a survivor main who never plays killer?
Then proceed to have a discussion.
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I like how while singularity players were spending a year and a half learning the character and getting good with not just the basics of the power (that were the ones to be trivialized by the qol update) but at actually using and controlling it to outplay and beat survivors, the survivor players are still stuck in june 2023 where you could spam EMPs and mindlessly W key + predrop and win any singu without putting any effort.
And now when the wholesome chungus killer actually turned out to be strong in capable hands, they are crying their eyes out because suddenly it's not as trivial to beat them as they thought.
sorry, pal, you're out of your league now. I suggest watching how strong players beat this killer or go ahead and play this killer yourself. Maybe you'll realize a thing or two once you get out of baby mmr.
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You're free to disagree, but yes singularity does not have a high skill ceiling. The skills you attribute to him can be brought to all killers. That's just the truth. Also if maps are the issue, then the maps need fixing.
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or when they waste EMP midchase in open space while the killer is behind their back with overclock up already :skull:
what do they even hope to accomplish there by slowing themselves down and not making it even remotely difficult for killer to reinfect them again
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I also said so in a previous thread : they overbuffed it and nuked EMPs at the same time.
Once your EMP is gone you are cooked in a short time cause nothing is really effective against it: Shifting-W, Pre-dropping, Vaulting, Stunning, none of these strategies actually work, all you can do is breaking LoS but it's just a matter of time since it can spawn pods everywhere and targeting survs is auto-pilot now.
This tweet (posted some time ago as soon as it was reworked) from a Singularity main explains everything it all in brief :
https://x.com/Zhrixxanna/status/1813297484132921542/video/16 -
Having no counterplay = "crying their eyes out."
Some killers really just want to play a pve game where they 4k every game huh?
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Another rule should be reading the whole post before posting a "gotcha" comment, as you would have seen I answered your questions.
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small hint: if you save EMP to use them when killer cannot immediately negate its effects, there's very decent counterplay available.
also windows. learn to use them. he physically cannot TP over window if you stand still after fast vault and after that he's wasting so much time, he's basically m1 powerless killer unless he TPs again.
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What I learned from this forum is that that’s exactly right, but just as much as survivors want an npc that chases them, provides them with entertainment and fun yet they escape every match. It’s a two way street, the only thing is that lately, every complain from survivors has had a repercussion in game, while some killers have been nerfed to the ground and are waiting for a remake for years. Also, perks etc. You get the idea.
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Please enlighten me in a situation where the singularity in chase cannot immediately recall the pod and put another one down. Oh that's right, there isn't one. (He doesn't know!!!!) I would suggest not lying about the effectiveness of your main on the forums, it's not in good taste.
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oh boy, there's a lot of enlightment i'd have to do here
first of all, you are not supposed to dodge the pod. it's like saying you're supposed to be able to prevent wesker or blight from using their power altogether. And, unlike these killers, Singularity's power can actually be denied to a certain extent, which can buy you an opportunity to assume a good position and dont get cut in the open.
placing a pod and infecting the survivor does precisely nothing except giving singularity a permission to use his actual chase power. if you are in a position where singularity can freely replace a pod to immediately infect you after you've wasted a EMP to remove the infection, while you haven't got any value out of that, then you have wasted a EMP and shouldn't have used it in this situation in the first place.
here's a hint how you're supposed to use EMP in chase: when singularity cannot immediately reinfect you or when doing so will change nothing. This normally happens when you have stunned him (which is very much possible with new overclock duration) or forced a slowdown on him either of which allows you to break LoS and start building distance, at which point you're meant to spend a EMP to prevent Singularity from immediately catching up. Then, you'll be able to pass through a dead zone and reach another tile that you can play or keep W keying and avoiding pods, buying your team even more time, which is what you're supposed to do as a survivor, I hope you are at least aware of that.
we can make this even more productive and you can, idk, post your own gameplay against this killer. I'll gladly point out every single thing you've done wrong or could've done better. But something tells me you'll have an excuse why this isn't possible.
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they havent done anything of importance to EMPs in the latest update. unless you want to imply they have done something terribly wrong last year (which is very laughable imo), you're making stuff up.
3 second manual print requirement shouldnt come into play practically ever, because you'd be manually printing most of your EMPs anyway. it's actually baffling how people are still ignoring the supply crates so much, they're done printing. you should never let that happen, otherwise you won't have enough EMPs.
the other nerf was reducing the immunity duration and it barely did anything. Ive played a while of this killer, comp included, and I can recall maybe one case where it actually mattered. Otherwise, it's nonexistent. They could remove it tomorrow and nothing would change, apart from maybe giving singularity haters a placebo effect to finally start trying.
slowdown, longer cast time have all been added in june-july 2023 and were with singularity's kit pretty much since the beginning.
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Everything is wrong with this post.
placing a pod and infecting the survivor does precisely nothing except giving singularity a permission to use his actual chase power. if you are in a position where singularity can freely replace a pod to immediately infect you after you've wasted a EMP to remove the infection, while you haven't got any value out of that, then you have wasted a EMP and shouldn't have used it in this situation in the first place.
You still did not answer the places where you can remove your pod where he can't immediately reinfect you because there simply is no situation in chase where that is true. So therefore I shouldn't waste my emp because his gap closer overloaded chase power can immediately be reapplied with no cost to him? That's like playing football, being down a touchdown with 30 seconds left with the ball, but saving your timeouts for overtime (the absurdity of that statement is intended). I lose my pod if I'm hooked. I will not get anywhere if I do not emp my pod because he can immediately slipstream me. Make it make sense lol.
When he cannot immediately reinfect you like when he's stunned
This made me laugh more than anything all month. Kudos to you.
I'm not going to post my gameplay when you've done nothing but discredit yourself as a singularity main by refusing to answer any of the pertinent questions to the post.
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I really think you fail to see how singularity works. Genuinely. We still have killers like nurse and blight, but singularity is the issue? He’s strong he’s. Not OP.
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Thank you for the compliment OP.
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"everything is wrong with this post"
says the person who doesnt understand the basics of the killer i played so much stats sites call me one of the best in the stats
You still did not answer the places where you can remove your pod where he can't immediately reinfect you because there simply is no situation in chase where that is true
im sorry, i had a stroke reading this, what are you even trying to say here? again, for people who struggle with reading my previous reply - you are not supposed to consistently and permanently deny him the permission to use the power. You are supposed to be infected and play around teleport&overclock.
btw, you are using wrong terminology. nobody calls "temporal slipstream" or "Infection", "slipstream", etc as "pod", because the word "pod" is used to reffer the meatballs he's placing on walls. If you want to be understood, you might wanna call things their names.
The only time you're meant to "remove your pod where he cant immediately reinfect you" is when you have outplayed him in any way that allowed you to gain distance and break LoS for 3-4 seconds required to channel EMP. At which point you reset the chase to the point where he's trying to infect you, while you're making your way to the best tile in your area and not letting him close the gap too easily. It shouldnt be too hard to avoid pods when he's far away placing them at predictable angle. Take cover, but dont get overzealous prioritising avoiding infection over avoiding killer. It's not rocket science.
So therefore I shouldn't waste my emp because his gap closer overloaded chase power can immediately be reapplied with no cost to him?
no, you should read my replies, including the one above in this very comment and refer to the lines where I describe a very common scenario of you "outplaying the killer" (i know this probably rarely happens in your games, try to believe it can happen) and using the spare moment of relief to use the EMP and use that gap in his attack to assume a better position. That would allow you to leave a dead zone, find a better tile or simply win some more time for your team to do stuff.
it's actually funny how the game gives you a way to deny gap closer killer the ability to close gaps and you just say "nah". Billy, Blight, Spirit and other "run fast" or "tp" killers don't give you that privilege. They just do their thing with zero interaction.
That's like playing football, being down a touchdown with 30 seconds left with the ball, but saving your timeouts for overtime (the absurdity of that statement is intended).
im not reading weird false equivalencies, sorry, if you cant deliver your point otherwise, there isnt much of a point there to be delivered. Try again.
I lose my pod if I'm hooked. I will not get anywhere if I do not emp my pod because he can immediately slipstream me. Make it make sense lol.
I already made enough sense, you just need to read that in good faith instead of grasping for straws. Let me even write a simple algorithm how to use EMP in chase, specifically for you, since Im afraid just saying it again might not be enough:
Warning: It doesnt cover every conceivable situation, but it gives you a very good general logic to follow. Unless you're a generative AI that lacks the ability to develop thoughts given to it, it should give you enough basis to work on. I believe in you!
This made me laugh more than anything all month. Kudos to you.
I'm not going to post my gameplay when you've done nothing but discredit yourself as a singularity main by refusing to answer any of the pertinent questions to the post.
ah, the excuses, as expected. "thou shall not see my gameplay as i have not deemed thou worthy of it"🤣
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Thank you for the diagram. I will be using it
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Scapegoating nurse and blight as some kind of valid argument is such a strawman lol.
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o7
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you're welcome.
also, try to use this little trick when running singu in tiles with windows
(btw this lovely game is a solo q game vs fully stacked singu with high prestige level. aka the average singularity people will meet in pubs and would be close enough in terms of skill to actually deserve to beat. we had a person kill themselves on 5 gens bc they didnt want to bother playing and within 5 minutes we got 3 gens done in 1v3. we had 2 last gens at 70-80% and wouldve won if one guy was simply playing the game. oh well, unfortunate).
you should get a feel for when singularity is not able to vault the window with overclock and will have to TP and instead of letting him TP over the window (which is usually a very close hit), you stand still after fast vaulting and do not move until he teleports, at which point you either W key or loop around the window / chain into other window. You just need to avoid falling for m1 killer fakes and you'll be fine, because you will 100% outlast overclock duration before he makes it close enough to hit you through the pallet. And then you either force him to TP again or play as M1.
It works the best in tiles with double windows - you force him to stay behind the window, loop & vault the second window and repeat the thing until he gives up on bruteforcing and tries to mindgame you.
There's no counterplay to that, he can either TP on you and give you the distance or vault the window normally which is also a win for you.
Smart survivors that use that trick make windows into borderline infinites vs singu, allowing to win a lot of time and forcing singularity to mindgame them. Which is when survivor is the one making decisions and not the killer.
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You realize stuns last like 2 seconds right? You realize slowing the killer down is perk dependent right (only 2 in existence)? You realize LOS can be negated by placing a pod around said LOS like rocks or high walls? You realize you cannot make distance if you have a pod on you because he can gap close with his power right? 2 seconds is not a valid amount of time to counter the power with an EMP. Besides, his pod has a 32 meter range to target a survivor. 2 seconds is equivalent to 8 meters of that, aka only 1/4th of the distance. At this point you are being intellectually dishonest about your main lol.
Showing your slipstream stat literally proves my point lol.
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Bamboozle says hello xD
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Omg I didn't even know that was a thing. Thank you
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You also think Huntress is overpowered so your opinion on Singularity being overpowered is irrelevant. Try playing those killers for more than 2 matches and then comment on if they are OP or not.
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He’s pretty strong. I actually play and enjoy this killer but the counterplay basically comes down to LoS blocking.
Isn’t he in like the top 5 highest kill rates now?
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When did I ever say huntress was overpowered? I'll have making things up for 600 Alex.
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I believe that's right. He's been getting buffs that singularity players swear is just "QOL." But as long as he's not nurse or blight, he's fine so I'm told.
You know, on second thought, I think survivors should have unbreakable base kit, that would be a good QOL. I also think gens taking 20 seconds would be a good QOL as well. What? It's not for the people + buckle up, it's not old dead hard. Why are you complaining? Just patrol gens better. Don't have your 3 gen behind LOS. Just patrol gens when the survivors are either stunned or slowed! (Sarcasm btw)
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stun is "like 2 seconds" and he loses LoS and has to break a pallet.
"You realize slowing the killer down is perk dependent right (only 2 in existence)?"
i`ll be responding with memes every time you make such a claim because I cant seriously argue against that willful ignorance.
You realize LOS can be negated by placing a pod around said LOS like rocks or high walls?
And you'll break LoS again because at this point you'll have a bunch of ######### between you and the killer. Unless of course you're playing haddonfield, in which case my condolences. It doesnt take much to move away from killer's LoS and then avoid delayed TP. Put some thought into your pathing for god's sake.
2 seconds is not a valid amount of time to counter the power with an EMP.
DbD players arguing raw math without considering how it's applied. In those 2 seconds you move away from his LoS and make a little bit of distance at which point you should've secured yourself basic LoS break. If you have gamesense to understand there's a bunch of obstacles between you and Singularity (for example you've stunned him in a jungle gym and chained to the tile nearby with tall walls), then you'll be able to channel EMP successfully and keep running if necessary, while delaying the infection.
Let me put it in very simple terms: if you stun the singularity and then dont ######### up at avoiding the single desperate attempt at getting LoS on you by throwing a camera at a normally restricted angle (if you dropped a pallet on him in any tall wall loop or managed to run off behind any tall wall cover immediately), then you get pretty much the same amount of distance you get by stunning any other killer without an ability to catch up.
All you have to do after stunning him is not run in a straight line in front of him and move to any cover and then use EMP asap.
At this point singularity is either forced to run around the pallet or break it, giving you even more distance.
And even that is not necessary, you can squeeze minutes long chases vs singularity by simply using the windows and trading pallets carefully. EMP to deny distance is just a cherry on top.
Besides, his pod has a 32 meter range to target a survivor.
what you are trying to say is that his placing and range distance combined make up roughly 32 meters (42 in fact, but in reality the effective range does add up at about 32 meters) so Im not going to make fun of you not knowing the actual numbers, however you do not account that Singularity's teleport from pod has a time delay of 0.8 seconds and the placement angle is normally very limited in such situation. Aka refer to the reply above to the comment about 2 seconds of stun being enough.
At this point you are being intellectually dishonest about your main lol
Showing your slipstream stat literally proves my point lol.
your point being that I know better? I dont remember you establishing that point, but that's what that is proving. I showed that you lack common knowledge about Singularity
you dont even know his own power slows him down if you drop a pallet on him
and despite that you throw around numbers you are incapable of understanding.
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not really.
the counterplay is making correct reads (aka m1 killer part of singularity) and using your positioning consciously to get maximum distance when he teleports.
breaking LoS is a secondary counterplay, just like using resources efficiently. (even though you can get by with just these two secondary things vs most pub singus bc they arent really capable of doing much than spamming TP and trying to win by removing pallets faster than survivors remove gens).
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You can keep responding with memes but that's not going to help your argument. Clearing your pod status does NOTHING when he can mark you again immediately. I don't see what you fail to understand about that, it's not a hard concept to grasp. Like I said in my original post, singularity players place pods around LOS, or high enough to where the LOS is a non issue. The stun being 2 seconds or 5 seconds does not matter when he can immediately mark you again.
I do know that stunning him slows him, but I fail to understand how you think that's a valid counter when the pallet breaks due to built in spirit fury, and the survivor is animation locked into the pallet throw animation for a decent portion of that slow. Like are you even reading what you're writing?
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I mean I play this killer and the only thing that really works against me is breaking LoS. 🤷🏼 Your mileage may vary.
Making correct reads just means winning a mind game. That isn’t really counterplay; it’s a fundamental mechanic of the game. Lol
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Singularity, like Nurse, is incredibly difficult to play so I don't mind that he's on the stronger side for high-skilled players. Yeah, it really sucks to go against a good Singularity, just like it really sucks to go against a good Nurse, but it's very rare in my experience. There's a good reason that Singularity is a critically endangered species in the Fog.
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Your whole OG post is a straw man.
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Delete. Accident.
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facts!
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"No you" is also not a valid argument, especially when it's not true.
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There’s no reason for a debate. You’ve been proven wrong this entire thread, yet denying it. What’s the point? I’ve just boiled it down at this point that you are extremely weak at looping The Singularity. Period.
Everyone has a killer they struggle with….6 -
How have I been proven wrong? Because ONE singularity main who isn't arguing any of the points I'm making made a flow chart in paint? Okay lol.
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He answered every question.
Literally every question. You’re refusing to see it. 🤷🏼♂️
Singularity is the last killer that needs to be worried about much less considered genuinely OP.
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Like I said to your original post, you're free to have your opinion, and good on you for expressing it 👍️
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some killers dont even give that, they just shutdown every tile. actually, not some, a lot of them. most antiloop killers just kinda remove mindgames from the tiles or limit them so much, people stop considering them mindgames and start complaining these are just guessing games (though whats the difference)
and trust me, there's a bunch of things ppl can do apart from breaking LoS - aforementioned window tech for instance. It should be a common knowledge at this point, but most people are sadly like OP - dont even know the very basic rules the power functions let alone how to play along these rules or win by them.
You might also think the only thing that works is breaking LoS because you think the counterplay lies in preventing infection/teleport rather than in not letting singularity get the hit after that. The main counterplay is in handling the overclock rather than in preventing it. You should understand that too.
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can you read? I literally spoonfed it to you. I cant dumb it down more, Im sorry
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Yeah reading something that doesn't make sense logically. "You can stun him and waste the distance to then break LOS to then use the EMP, but ignore the fact I didn't answer any of your points about how he can't just immediately mark you again :)"
Your posts are the meme that keeps on giving.
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its actually funny how desperately you cling on not being able to permanently prevent being infected as a justification that singularity has no counterplay.
it's like crying there's nothing you can do to stop wesker from doing his dashes or prevent unknown from shooting the blob while entirely ignoring all the stuff you can do against the power being used. yeah, "that do be like that" ©. doesnt mean there's a plenty of things you can do in the actual chase, that I even described above with video example and that you conveniently ignored.
also, please look up what the word "Logically" means. My words are very much consistent in their rationale and reason.
I understand you really need to say something to sound smart, but calling things you dont like as "not making sense logically" makes you look really bad.
it's actually getting tiring to try to teach an ignorant person something if they refuse to learn and just keeping repeating the same nonsense and accusing me of nonsense, so please be a more productive and post your gameplay vs singu to prove how wrong I am and how there's zero counterplay to his power in chase. I'll be glad if you make an example out of yourself here.
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yeah, their entire way of arguing is just repeating the same false and irrelevant thing over and over while steering the convo away. it's kinda sad and time consuming.
that person is dedicating so much effort into complaining how they suck at preventing being infected (or, better say, at extracting value from cleansing infection in chase) and use that as an argument that singularity has no counterplay in chase, even though that thing has nothing to do with the actual chase and is more like a finisher you pull off once you've won an interaction with the killer.
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I never said that EMPs should permanently disable his power. If you actually would address the points I made in my original post, and not some made up bogeyman, you'd have seen that. All I am saying is that singularity's counterplay means nothing because survivors have to commit so much time for almost 0 payoff.
I don't need you to teach me anything when you can't even read the assignment correctly. Trying to call me ignorant while using memes as your main form to discredit me without any logic is actually appalling, and for you to think that that's "logic" is as equally as appalling.
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