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Remove the final mori
This new system where the killer can automatically kill the last survivor has made it where every match ends with slugging while the killers bm you on the ground. Either add basekit unbreakable when there are two survivors left or remove entirely. It's ######### insane how many killers slug as if their whole family will die if they don't get the last pity mori. I love it, don't you guys!
Comments
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I agree it's made the game so much worse.
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It really hasn't helped matters. I still don't want basekit unbreakable, but forced timewasting is way up and my survivor experience has gotten considerably worse on average. About half of my survivor games end in killer slugging, and even if I had an okay match, I will leave it angry and feeling upset with the game if I had to wait 45 seconds on the ground with the killer humping me out of boredom as they wait for everyone else to die before they mori me, as opposed to that exact same match but the killer hooks me and I die immediately after I lose the game.
Either widen the net of when killers can use the finisher mori so that it encompasses more game over scenarios (ex everyone else is on second stage hook, or slugged and nobody has pickup perks) or just get rid of it, please.
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A handful of times I've seen the killer has everybody down already and can end the game with hook but they prefer to wait longer to keep last one alive to use basekit mori or they corpse hump them longer while waiting for everbody to die on hook then use basekit mori. For the health of the game…please remove base kit mori asap. I don't even do this type of stuff when I'm killer. I just end the game quickly asap.
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So much worse? Barely worse at best. What's the big change?
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Absolutely agreed. The game is much less rewarding on average as a result of the finisher mori.
It literally incentivises slugging for 4k, and it's really starting to feel like the killer equivalent of teabagging at the gate in the sense that once some killers have won the game, they then go out of their way, slugging for 4k, waiting for others to die on hook, waiting out bleedout timers until there's just one left, all to get the free mori. Then, once they've already got every other survivor out, the finisher mori is feeling like the killer just showing off and saying "Look, I won and now you have to watch me do this."
This is all on top of the fact that the finisher mori gives all killers a basekit ability that removes last-chance perks and abilities that could on rare-occasion lead to a dramatic escape. And now I also almost never see any killer other than myself give hatch or a gate. This mechanic has had a very negative impact on my experience.
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Ive been saying this from the start.
I was only wrong about me being petty enough to slug for 4k & bleed people out, etc just to get the mori. Nah, Im not, but as surv that's been my common experience.
Can we just make it so "finisher mori" is something you're allowed to do once you've got like 6-7 hook stages so you can do that at any point. Oh no, the tunnelling at 6-7 hooks and bypassing flashes and saves, so awful, at least the game wouldn't suck so badly later.
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feeling like the killer just showing off and saying "Look, I won and now you have to watch me do this.
Almost sounds like how killers have been complaining about safe tbagging in the exit gates and being forced to swat them out. Not going to get much sympathy from the killer community with that one. Both sides have always and (unfortunately) will always have ways to BM and waste other players' time.
In all honesty, I'd love to see the data for how much/little hatch escapes have changed since the introduction of the finisher mori. Bad experiences tend to stand out more than good ones (especially when trying to form a hypothesis) so it would be interesting to see how much people are over/under representing the change's impact on 4ks.
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Your assessment is definitely not wrong :/
Honestly though, I play a decent amount as killer and almost never get teabagged at gate anymore. Maybe it's that my playstyles don't lead to survivors gloating? But seems to not really happen now. It could be a combination of having very few matches where more than one survivor is around once a gate gets opened, or that if I'm not actively in chase as I approach the gate, I'll do one of two things: (i) approach from the side to see if I can catch someone off-guard, or (ii) go to a place where the survivor(s) can see me and meme at them.
But as survivor, there's no way around the endgame mori. You're right that the numbers can giveore info. Anecdotally though, I don't even remember the last time I was given hatch. Feels like it doesn't happen anymore.
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I understand the complains yet I still like the idea to finish a match with a mori. Feels far more cinematic than just hooking everyone.
They could just make it so you can instantly mori the last survivor when everyone else is either dead or hooked and already on second hook state.
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No.
I want to see more of these awesome animations.
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While your statement about not being able to avoid the mori is technically correct, I think people downplay the way killers can "avoid" the survivors refusing to leave and continuing to taunt. Yes, the killer can swat them out, but that can be up to 8 hits and blade wipes. Then you also have things like heal teching to save survivors who don't even position properly to fall out of bounds as they land. The EGC timer is half the duration of the bleed out one, yet it also can be doubled (therefore equal in duration) when someone is down, on a hook, or in a cage.
So no they are not equal in that regard, but the difference can be much smaller than people realize.
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I miss when killer would give last survivor hatch once in a blue moon. Now...never.
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This is interesting. It's been a long time since I've seen multiple survivors teabagging in the exit gate at once. Do you see this often?
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I'm a 90/10 survivor main, mostly because of hearing and vision problems making killer a much harder role. When I do play killer, its often very late night/early morning for my area, so I rarely get opponents as casual. And since I don't get 4ks very often, more often than not there will be at least one player who refuses to win gracefully. Their teammates usually join in when they know they are untouchable. End game chat/console messages are also a factor but obviously that affects either side and depends on platform.
But yeah, there is a metric ton of ego in this game's community. People regularly being disrespectful regardless of winning or losing. No two players are the same, but there are certain patterns that definitely exist.
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That's unfortunate. I've only ever teabagged at gate in one match. The killer was slugging for 4k and kept doing it after I safely picked up my downed teammate multiple times. It was just ridiculous. Well over four minutes of nonsense.
Sorry you have to put up with that too. I guess I probably see it less because I don't give my survivors a chance to feel safe at the gate unless we're already farming. And then we can play red light green light!
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I do and I'm low level on the killer side. Survivors are just nasty. I really don't like playing the game that much anymore. If I load into survivor 9 games out of 10 I'm slugged for the mori or just slugged. If I load in as killer I will get spammed with the flashlight, tbagged, or the squad so start crouch around me so I can't hook. I don't tunnel, slug, or proxy camp but I really understand why killers do. The whole DBD community more toxic gameplay than anything.
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They should never remove this, let Killers have things. Killers are allowed to have things. Killers are allowed to dominate in matches just as Survivors can.
The finisher Mori isn't why people slug more and it's not why people stopped giving hatch; that was a rarity even before this for about a half a year.
The game is horror-themed. Survivors in a horror movie are intended to die and only SOME get out, or all die. That is what you're supposed to be paying for and it's what the Devs have finally, finally achieved after 8 years of nonsense.
Let. Killers. Have. Things.
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There was definitely a sharp cutoff in instances where I saw myself or others be given hatch or a gate since the finisher mori was introduced.
Killers have plenty of things too :)
We can use our powers to dominate survivors, teleport around the map (or across pallets), throw survivors into stuff, guard the basement chest, give them fun party hats, and literally teabag them back. Killers have so many more things than survivors.
I play killer and enjoy giving my survivors a good match, and I'll even do a 4k if I win a hatch race and am feeling like it's warranted. But I definitely won't be forcing someone to watch some animation celebrating how I sacrificed the other three members of their team and then got them too. Seems to me like an overall negative thing for the community.
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I really honestly, no offense, do not think the finisher Mori is the issue and that if slugging is the problem, we need to address that.
I want the Finisher Mori to stay, I and others fought HARD for that on Reddit, the official Discord, etc. even before I started posting here. There's really no reason it shouldn't stay, just do something else about slugging. Is it really that big an issue we see a different death animation?
Plus, there's zero chance it's being removed. They PTBed it, tested it, and reworked the Moris for it, and they're not about to just undo all that hard work and code. The Devs wanted this. The community basically wanted this. Now that we have it, it complains, but we wanted this and we got it.
The issue is not and never has been Moris. It's always been the way a win is counted in DBD, and always been the way Killers keep being encouraged to slug by making hooks less and less appealing for a variety of reasons. Expect if STB gets popular, slugging to skyrocket more.
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Y'all teabag killers at the gates and now cry that killer gets to mori you lol
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That's the only issue with the Finisher Mori.
Killers should get the prompt to mori and end the match if all other survs are incapable of unhooking or getting the other up.2 -
I very much think it's an issue that players on either side would be given a victory animation that they can force the other side to watch. There's enough toxicity in the game already without such a feature. It's really gotten to a point with it where I see it as being more toxic than teabagging at the gate.
And while slugging isn't the issue, it doesn't help that it's often accompanied by and even encourages slugging for 4k. It also has given killers a basekit ability that negates survivor perks in the endgame. It's like nobody thought it through. Honestly, I can't believe BHVR thought it was a good idea, and I'd be glad to fight hard to get it removed.
Removing it should be trivial too. There's almost certainly an 'if' statement in the code for each time a survivor gets downed, and when its parameters are met, the finisher mori is enabled. Just remove that, or even bypass it by hardcoding one of the parameters out.
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It's not a victory animation. Don't be ridiculous. Survs have their own version of it too - squatting repeatedly on the hatch or in exit gates. It's not one side. One side just happens to have an unskippable cutscene version.
It's just not the "rub it in" equivalent you think it is, and if it's a problem then BHVR can fix it by giving us an option to skip it so only the Killer sees it. There. Now everyone's happy.
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Maybe once every 8-10 matches as killer, but it does not happen that often anymore. Unless the survivors are a toxic SWF group, it really does not happen very often. Most of the time, I get survivors whom I can joke around with
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It really is a victory animation though; it can only be done when the killer has defeated all four survivors.
Either way, I think you're right that if there were an option for survivors to choose whether they want to see it, that could alleviate the issue of it appearing to be a sort of 'rub it in' scenario.
There is still the issue that it nevertheless encourages slugging for 4k, but that could be handled by addressing slugging for 4k.
As a side note, I think teabagging at the gate or hatch should be handled too. But I see that as somewhat less problematic since the killer isn't forced into an animation where they watch the survivor show off their escape.
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This is exactly why I've made my veryyyyyy old build my new one AKA bringing ALL the boons 😎 and so do my friends.
Exponentional, Shadowstep and CoH.
If I notice any uptick in killers playing a certain way during my gaming time I will bring those. You wanna slug, good luck snuffing 3 boons first, good luck finding survivors with your aura-reads blocked, and all the anti-healing perks lol. If the opposite wants to play nasty, well guess what 4 others can do that as well <3 Put in 4 map offerings whilst we're at it.
I think the only way to make the Devs realise something is too abuseble is by going about it this way, asking anything normally by explaining and giving actual arguments goes to deaf ears.
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I think this is a healthier change too. We can fix slugging or tunnelling for this in other ways.
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So it's okay for survivors to BM at the exit gate, but a killer standing over you waiting for the cool animation and suddenly "OMG HOW DARE YOU BM"…lol
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I know this comment was not directed towards me but yes I see it quite often.
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Or just make the last two survivors be able to recover after slugged one time as base kit. Killers still get their last Mori options but have to earn it. (Sorry didn't read other responses if it was mentioned before)
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Yeah once again... Punish the majority because of a few. True killer mentality
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Tea bagging at the gate risks giving the Killer another kill. Slugging everyone and watching them bleed out is just tedious. Why not hook everyone and then enjoy the mori, even if you've seen it a million times?
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Yeah it has become an annoying addition, predictably so.
I have been saying for years that the survivor slugged 'for the 4k' should be able to concede the match and move on, rather than be stuck unable to play the game or leave for potentially 4 minutes while their team mate hides out the killer.
Unfortunately I have a sneaking suspicion they may try to monetise custom moris, so I suspect this annoying addition isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
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I fail to see how this is a problem because no one complained whenever killers did the exact same thing back when they had to bring a cypress mori (myself included as i would bring one almost every match), but now that it's a basekit feature "OH then it's BAAAD"
Seriously, you're complaining about the fact that the killer is being rewarded for playing well, and here we are having survivors looking for another second chance for a way out by adding basekit unbreakable, my brother in christ you already lost who cares if the killer slugs you for the mori just watch a video while you wait you sound like a dumbass.
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Why should killers have to "earn" their 4th kill mori after already having won, but survivors be rewarded (for free) for all being downed? Thats kinda backwards. The killer has already won, they already "earned" their victory, while you're proposing the survivors not have to "earn" their second (or third, or fourth, whatever its up to at that point in the match) chance after already having lost?
At least try to compromise and say that they have to have a certain emblem score or something to be granted the self pickup, that way its at least actually "earned?" And yes I know that things like 4 man slugs exist, but that is a checkmate scenario that can (and should) be prevented.
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I agree get rid of it. The increase in slugging alone because of it is miserable.
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You realize that slugging for the 4k was extremely common even before the finisher mori was introduced right? Fixing it is not going to automatically fix slugging lol.
If this really bothers you that much then just run Unbreakable…
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I'd argue that survivors teabagging at the gate should be discouraged also. But that's not a reason to enable the killer to force the last survivor watch them a victory animation once they've sacrificed all three of the last survivor's teammates. That seems more like bad sportsmanship than 'finishing a game well played,' much like a version of teabagging at the gate but where one player is forced to watch the 'winner' showing off.
It's also often associated with slugging for 4k, making it feel like the killer just trying to rub the bad manners in.
Edit: changed 'run' to 'rub'
Post edited by smurf on1 -
Really, moris seemed alright in the past when they were more rare, but now they can be expected pretty frequently and are just becoming annoying.
From my perspective, it really doesn't feel like the killer is being rewarded, but instead they're getting to punish the survivors and show off once they have the survivor down.
Either way, I don't think we should be calling people names.
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Indeed. All those glorious finishers were so rare because people were busy using hands to dodge realms or protect their iridescent addons. Now they happen more often, just as should be.
Some people are simply too upset that killers are now more inclined to killing them instead of letting them go. What can I say? Get over it and move to the next game.
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TBf, the killers were very undermined before the kill system for the basekit, bc that would just make Survivors toxic and basically saying "HA you suck, and you can't kill Me no matter what you do so I'm just gonna waste your time" I've seen and experienced too many matches of this situation on both sides and it's just not fair or funfor the Killer, but when it was added, the toxicity dropped bc I've seen less people tea bagging, wasting time on pointless chases, or just don't right toxic in general
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You can't say it better, brother. Kudos
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Killers are way bigger jerks with this stupid final mori crap, I hate it so much. Get rid of it.
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It's way more common now and you're lying if you say it isn't.
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In 400 hours of survivor game since free finisher mori dropped I haven't see a single hatch given. It's all slug 3rd to mori them after downing and hooking 4th. closest i saw to it was killer dropping near hatch to close it and mori.
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How can you even try to pretend this? From Day 1 on live you have seen the rise in slugging for the second to last survivor.
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Tell me, why do you believe Killers aren't allowed to have the cool thing?
There's no pretending. The community fought for and wanted this. The devs want this. It's not going to go away. This is definitely staying, if the Devs want to fix slugging they need to find another way. There's nothing wrong with the finisher Mori itself, it's just an animation, but the real issue is the rise in slugging FOR the finisher Mori. So the issue isn't the Finisher Mori, it's slugging.
I want the option to always be there for me to let me have the Mori, or choose mercy by giving hatch. And yes, I do still give people the hatch.1 -
The finisher mori is definitely an issue on its own. It's less a cool thing and more a poorly thought out thing that has almost exclusively negative impacts.
It encourages slugging for 4k, takes away the ability of survivors to make dramatic endgame escapes by wiggling off, acts as a way to show off the killer's victory in the same way as teabagging at gate, and even has led to new ways to cap off toxic endgame behaviors where some killers will wait out a bleedout timer then mori at the last second.
It's been extremely negative with no real benefits except that some people think it's cool to look at. Also, I'd say the community didn't fight for and want this. A subset of the community wanted it, but a lot of the community expressed that they didn't want to try this nonsense again after the previous finisher mori disaster. And now that it's here, a lot of people still don't want it.
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Make mori basekit and then killers will have already gotten 3 moris and won't need to slug to see it on the 4th survivor.
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“Get over it and move to the next game.”
Hmmm ok. So every complaint you have (and in particular you have a lot of them) take your own advice
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